A New World Order
It's still hard to imagine New World anywhere other than where they are right now. But if you think back... way, way back... the business started out in Williamsville in '84. From there they moved to Elmwood between Utica and Hodge in '90. Then they picked up and headed down to their current location at the corner of Cleveland in '99. Who knew that the Spot Coffee - New World Record forces would eventually split and head their separate ways? "The downside is that we're leaving Elmwood," Govindan reflected. "I like my neighbors. Elizabeth is on the board of the Elmwood Association. Unfortunately, we outgrew our space and the original design... we're going from 2500 sq.' to 3000 sq.'. We need that extra room for our non-album merchandise. We also need more room for a stage... our in-store performances get a lot of traffic. Our new location will put us a little outside of the walking district, but there will be sixty parking spaces... and even more for employees. The plaza has now been chopped up, and we'll be there with a bank, a UPS store, a nail shop, a pet store, and a Chinese food place."
Govindan told me earlier that they have been receiving a ton of unsolicited emails from their customers saying that they are happy about the move. Not only will the capital improvements continue at the corner of Delaware and Hertel (paving, landscaping and curb-cuts), Benchmark has already added eight windows to the Delaware facade where New World will also showcase their gigantic album covers from the Elmwood location. "There's also an out-parcel Dunkin' Donuts coming to that corner," Govindan added. "We're hoping to become a destination shop in that area. And we're excited to work with the Hertel Association when we're established. I even heard that Sit and Spin Records is moving onto Delaware six blocks away. That means that most of the Indie record shops will be in relative close proximity. It'll be like a music shopping district."
New World Record plans on being open in their new location no later than October 1st. In the past there have been many discussions about bridging the gap between the Elmwood and Hertel commercial districts. Some of these commercial additions as well as aesthetic improvements could go a long way towards doing so. This corner has been a real eyesore for a long time. It was not too long ago that Abraham's Jewelers opted out of the plaza and headed onto Elmwood (corner of Auburn). Those types of moves can often signal to a developer that it is time to spend some money in order to attract a quality tenant. And lo and behold... they attracted a quality tenant in a big way. It's a bold move for a brave New World.
*Side note: This post was written and published at the North Park Branch Library at the corner of Hertel and Delaware. This was the first time that I ever walked through the doors of this public library. I am sure that there will be many more New World customers who will find their way to previously unexplored neighborhood amenities. It's the only WiFi that I've discovered along the Hertel stretch.
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platt4
hmmmmm, cinder block and stucco. Cool vibe.
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duke
slightly more diverse crowd in that area, could be good for business. plus delaware, between kenmore and hertel, is blowing up so that might help too. i'm still bummed though, first HOTH, now NWR. no good music within walking distance of elmwood. where will i go for my metal...? (tear)
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JAramini
The new location is much less distinctive, it looks like any random strip mall. I agree that Hertel is booming, but I just don't get a good feeling from this. I feel like a lot of foot traffic through the Elmwood store is generated by virtue of being connected to Spot. I don't think that a nail shop, UPS, and Chinese place or going to draw the same demographic that Spot does. I wish them luck, but do wonder if this is a mistake.
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AtwaterLouse
Cool vibe doesn't pay the payroll and taxes and inventory, and they don't need foot traffic necessarily as much as they need as much money traffic as possible.
As other retailers have discovered the former does not always lead to as much of the latter as one might imagine. (See Damsel in a Dress owner's closure interview on BRO a few months ago where she discussed frustrations of so much more browsing than buying).
Bottom line is that it will become even harder and harder to sustain any independent brick-and-mortar retail music business in the long term, so they are smart to take any steps necessary to reduce expenses and try increasing the flow of paying customers.
It might only last a few years more, so they should try to earn as much as they can while it lasts.
Congrats to New World for their success on Elmwood over the years and best wishes for much success on Hertel.
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AtwaterLouse
BTW, the Buffalo News reported Monday that the rent will be lower for the new larger space:
http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/buffaloerie/story/149475.html
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al-alo
while im notta so bigga on strip mall per say, im not sure that this pic is a fair predicton of what will be there (any inside track on architectual drawing there, queenseyes?).
the 1988 facade is coming down, and a new is coming up. from what i can tell, it looks like it may turn out the summit fed credit union blg just down delaware. which, as strip malls go, it could be worse.
and it looks like NWR will have a street visible window, unlike most stripmalls.
i welcome the renovation to the building and the expansion of hertel's shopping district. if only Delaware & Hertel's intersection could be spiffed up and made a little less like a game of frogger when x-ing the street.
westward to elmwood!
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LeftCoast
This is truly terrible news!!! We live just off Elmwood and have shopped at New World for years. My husband's first reaction to the move was "I'm not going to drive up to a strip mall to buy music" and who can blame him?!? I hardly feel that we are alone with this sentiment - all the folks we know who give a damn about music support New World because it's a neighborhood place. It's just as easy (if not easier) to order stuff online, but we've wanted to support a local merchant *and* be able to walk to the store, too.
The new location is not in a neighborhood - it's an intersection!!! Who does Govindan Kartha think he's kidding??? The whole bit about joining Hertel is nonesense. A strip mall is just that: a strip mall, totally isolated by traffic on all sides from the rest of the Hertel mileau. There is nothing about the new spot that makes me in any way compelled to visit it, especially since it would mean getting in my car.
As for the part about gaining more space, I don't think that 500 extra square feet can make much of a difference. In the scheme of things, that's not much bigger at all! As someone who's been to New World in store appearances, I've been okay with the crowding. Last summer I saw Will Oldham perform to a packed group and it was great, if a bit hot and cramped. In the end, I'd totally take that anyday over a roomier space in a bland box store.
Bigger does not equal better!!!! There are tons of super record stores in urban areas that are tiny, but great. Aquarius Records in SF comes to mind - the place is the size of a shoebox - maybe 500 square feet total - but awesome all the same. In this age of downloads, retail environment is everything.
The bottom line from my perspective is that this is going to be a bad move and terrible for New World's business. Seriously guys - PLEASE RECONSIDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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al-alo
damn it k-dawg, keep it down! they arnt going to start killing puppies instead of selling music! or are they?
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al-alo
but left coast, extra credit for using 'mileau' in your post. ill stick that one in my attache case.
:)
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LeftCoast
P.S.
Another huge reason why this is wrong, wrong, wrong: New World is giving up a shared location with an extremely popular coffee shop to join businesses that include "a bank, a UPS store, a nail shop, a pet store, and a Chinese food place." THIS MAKES NO SENSE! Spot Coffee is exactly the kind of establishment that lures the right demographic, whereas no one I know is going to think "hey I'll go mail some packages, get my nails done, buy a mangy pet shop dog, and then pick up some indie music! Yeah. If the New World proprietors do go through with this move, they should be prepared to lose ALL of their foot traffic.
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Weezer
The Elmwood location had a combination of high volume foot traffic and slow moving vehicular traffic, the best of both worlds. While the Delaware/Hertel location has higher volumes of vehicular traffic, pedestrian traffic is practically zero and most of the vehicles won't be stopping to check out the store. Hope it works out, though.
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Hoss
Though I'm not the biggest fan of Strip Malls, I think it's a good move. 500 sf is a big gain in the small retail world. What's the current location, 1000sf. 1500 the most. That's a huge increase. Enough for that much more product to display, or perhaps an office to implement online sales. The place now, though it is nice and homey, is obviously overcrowded, and as one of the only music retailers left in the city, they could use more inventory space to stay competitive. I try to purchase music there, but their selection could most definitely benefit some expansion.
As Govindan stated in the story, the Hertel/North Buffalo area is where young people are moving to buy there first houses. It's an area definitely on the rise. These are the people spending money on music. I'll probably get slammed for this but, the majority of young people don't seem to be living around Elmwood and Cleveland these days. Plenty of very nice 40+ types, but not the most youthful music buying demographic. Sorry to say, but, the only young folks I see down there are primarily the employees of Spot, and the Nardin girls. Parking, coupled with good exposure at a very major intersection will be a wise move for New World Record, and I look forward to continue supporting them. Hopefully they will put in some groovy bike racks. Maybe Spot will even open a location there, the area could use one.
Besides, have you ever been in Record Theatre near UB on a friday/Saturday night? It's hopping. With most of the Elmwood/Cleveland area shops closing at 6pm, other than some Ice cream eaters and coffe sippers, I don't see a whole lot of hot retail shopping action going on in the evening hours.
Not that it isn't quietly happening already, but just wait til H/M and Whole Foods opens in this neighborhood. Hertel is gonna be hot!
But don't worry LeftCoast. Though hipper neighborhoods will rise. Elmwood will still be successful.
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icecreamsub
Hoss is right on about the young people record buying demographic in the city. The north Buffalo area does seem to have more young people moving in.....not necessarily saying the ones I see would be New World shoppers as there seems to be a plethora of dudes driving Hummers and sporting shpants, but by sheer volume of 20 somethings who spend money on stuff like CD's DVD's etc this probably is a good move. God I miss Cavages though....it seems like yesterday I bought my first Rainbow record there
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ChristaSeychew
I'm really just thrilled to hear that NWR isn't closing up shop altogether. I can see that more retail space for less money with a parking lot on a busy corner flanked by new builds could be a benefit for a small business. But, only time will tell. NWR has been a vital part of Elmwood for a long time, but the music business (retail) isn't what it used to be and I admire someone willing to change gears and take risks in order to try and preserve their business. The change will present Elmwood with a new venture and may bring an entirely new vibe to that rapidly strip of Delaware- which, might I add, though it is growing (and hurray for that), can really use as much "vibe" as it can get.
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urbanboarder
H&M and Whole Foods? Where did you hear this from? If anything H&M should consider Canalside
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ChristaSeychew
I'd also like to mention that I'd love, love, love to see Talking Leaves move into the NWR space. Their current location is so, so cramped. I'd love to see a big bookstore return to this block (missing Village Green).
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Andrew
Its a shame for elmwood
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phrank
I was really upset about the move, but then I remembered the first time I went to New World was when I was in high school in the late 80's and it was in a strip plaza in Williamsville. I still have the REM t-shirt I bought then. I'll miss it on Elmwood, but I suspect the old location will be snapped up by someone. Prime location. But was prime rent a factor in moving out? Just please not another high-priced cafe! Maybe the first area location of American Apparel? Perfect location for it.
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JAramini
Yeah, that's my question now, who will join up next to Spot? That's definitely a highly valuable location. A book store would definitely be nice, not sure what other sorts of businesses would work well there.
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AdamFIx
I would certainly enjoy having an American Apparel on Elmwood. I'm sick of ordering my day-glo briefs online.
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sbrof
yay, and just like Hippodrome it will loose its character and soul for parking spaces. I loved going to the drome on Main, went almost every weekend, I went to their new location once and will never go back, it has horrible atmosphere.
Point is if they don't do something to really make it a great space and special the only difference from going there to going to a chain will be price... and you know they wont be able to win that battle for long, especially once a generation passes and people forget the cool place it once was.
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Buffalopundit
LeftCoast, that's classic.
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crc
My wife and I live right off Hertel. We're in our early 30s, bought our first house there a year ago because it's a great area! As great as elmwood was for us (while we were renting) we couldn't justify (nor afford) the type of house we were looking for in that area.
Although I don't quite agree on the exact location of the shop (more east on Hertel may have been better - a strip plaza??), I think the area is experiencing a turn around. And they may be able to just ride the coattails on that.
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Dan
H&M tends to stick to malls. They'll go to urban neighborhoods only in the larger cities.
Whole Foods has no plans to open a store in the Buffalo area. Wild Oats has no plans to open a store in the Buffalo area. Trader Joe's has no plans to open a store in the Buffalo area. Fresh Market has no plans to open a store in the Buffalo area.
Back on topic: the new store seems to lack the kind of surrounding that an independent urban record store should have. Times are very tough for the record sales industry, though, so if it helps New World survive, more power to them. Were they really hurting on Elmwood, though? Rather than move, a second location could have been an option if they were looking to expand their customer base.
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cityindustry
Damn straight CRC... my girlfriend and I rented in the Elmwood Village for a combined 10 years, and when it came time to consider buying our first house there was no way to afford the EV. As Hoss said, the EV is filling up with 40 somethings and other people that can afford the easy $200k+ home prices and $1000 rents. We saw that the tide was turning on Hertel and bought this month.
It would have been great to have NWR closer to the North Park or a block thats a little more walkable. I was thinking that with all the live music they want to have maybe a strip mall location is more forgiving of all the noise than a shop right in the middle of the neighborhood. Hopefully all the work they are doing on that corner will finally bring it out of 1989. But just because it will be in a strip mall doesnt make it any less in-touch. It was founded in a strip mall in the burbs of all places, and anyone old enough to have shopped there knew how important it was to the area's music scene back then.
All we can hope for is that this is the kind of first steps needed to really give a shot in the arm to Hertel. Hopefully it will spur new businesses to open up in the area as opposed to just move locations. It would be amazing to see Spot open a Hertel location or even a Starbucks I suppose. The growth potential for Hertel is great since it is such an expansive street and has larger parcels than Elmwood and a far less strict business environment than Elmwood. The housing is affordable now and there is a LOT of it. It sure seems like the time is now to start discussions of finally extending a metro rail spur into Hertel as originally planned. Some way to connect Elmwood/Hertel/Univ Heights without jumping 3 or 4 different buses and take 45 minutes. The entire reason we worry about sustaining multiple "cool" neighborhoods in this city is because they are islands that compete. If they were more interconnected, traveling between them would only stand to bolster them all. In Montreal you can be in any of the very separate and distinct neighborhoods in 10-15 minutes max by subway. Now is the time.
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eyepharded
Maybe someone will turn it into another Tattoo parlor, because Elmwood ave desperately needs another one. Hell Western New York needs more... or not. (I'm pretty heavily inked by the way).
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platt4
CityofIndustry - Get a job at the NFTA. Your idea of an Elmwood-Hertel-University Heights bus route is excellent.
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Dan
The site used to be the home of the Village Green Bookstore in the late 1980s. Perhaps a new bookstore, or a relocated Talking Leaves, could take up residence in the vacated New World Record space. I've seen the connected indie bookstore/cafe combo in many cities; those that come to mind include Mac's Backs/Tommy's in Cleveland Heights, and Boulder Book Store/BookEnd Cafe in Boulder.
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STEEL
Could someone explain something to me? What exactly IS a record store?
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zenmasterj
Why in the world would we even WANT an H&M and a Whole Foods? Right now we have locally-owned stores with lots of character that serve these needs; why do you want a chain to come in and steal their business? While Whole Foods might be slightly cheaper than the Lexington Co-op, they're in it for the money, not to be a community grocery store. They're probably perfectly fine with the new FDA regulations allowing 38 new non-organic products to be included in "USDA Organic" foods. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, look here: http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_5257.cfm) Same goes for H&M. I'd MUCH rather have NWR be my music store.
Oh, and same goes for the Starbucks. If I'm going to pay upwards of $3-4 for a drink, I'd much rather it came from a unique, locally-owned place than an unauthentic mega-chain that overroasts the beans and might dope them with extra caffeine and other addictives to keep you from ever leaving. (I can't confirm that last bit about additives as either true or false; snopes.com has nothing on it)
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Hoss
A record store is one of the last places that people with tattoos on their faces can still get jobs. :))) I Kid.
Yes. CityofIndustry nailed it in regards to rail extensions, and neighborhood competition.
In the mean time, I just spent time in Boulder Colorado, where they implemented a very successful new system of bus routes. They use smaller buses, awhose primary purpose is to quickly service the primary neighborhood hubs. They are small. fast, and efficient, and get you where you need to go fast. They also have cute route names like "skip, hop, and jump", and are graphically more exciting than the average bus.
You can read about it in this little PDF.The accolades and statistics get real meaty in the middle.
http://www.bctransit.com/conference/2004_whi/bob_whitson_notes.pdf
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cityindustry
Hoss, the Boulder shuttle system is exactly what we need. Since our subway/metro system is no where near where it needs to be at this point, an express shuttle is everything the NFTA can do immediately. If we could link up the universities, neighborhoods and the retail centers in one big loop. Hell... we could just call it "The Loop."
In no particular order, it could have stops at the Allentown, an Elmwood midpoint, Elmwood Buff State/Art gallery, Delaware Target plaza, Delaware/Hertel, Hertel midpoint, Kenmore Ave/Main plaza, University Metro Rail hub(UB, Canisius, MetroRail line access)...
hmmmmmm who knows someone at the NFTA??
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crc
Yeah, a Spot, or something with that kind of vibe would fit in perfectly on Hertel. But have no fear! My sources tell me that Dash's will be undergoing a rehaul. If you noticed the other remodels they did, they included a Spot. Albeit a trimmed down version. But we can hope!
I know I'm off topic, but cityindustry got my blood flowing. So.....I also feel that a good market type restaurant/establishment is sorely missing as well. Somewhere where you can walk to, order a quick sandwich and a bowl of soup in a matter of minutes (think Globe), without having to call ahead.
Should start a Hertel thread somewhere....
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Andrew
There is finally a bus that runs from chippewa & delaware to Buff state, Medaille and Canisius all night on friday and saturdays!
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happyone
More armchair quarterbacking. Yippee!
Let the people sell there records where they want.
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al-alo
i remember records. i bought them for my hi-fi.
---
id also like to point out that the ex-belt line rail route follows hertel one block south. you can still see the stairs to the stations along the line at places like colvin and elmwood.
id love a connection of the old belt line to the subway @main (the tri-main bld area) along hertel to elmwood to Buff State/museum district then down the west side to downtown (the old route is west if niagara). the right of way is already in place. and it connects places to people.
did somebody say feasability studY?
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chrish
If they move to a strip plaza, they have lost this long-time customer.
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MRodgers
What I cannot fathom here is how anyone, particularly faithful NWR clientele, can begrudge a business opportunity for success. Aren't they still a locally owned and operated business? Didn;t they come into the area from the burbs when it was risky? Hasn't Go done a tremendous job in supplying not only customers, but also local musicians a forum for success? Come on, folks, give them credit for continuing instead of locking up and wish them well!
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Kip
so what goes in the old NWR location it is such a cool building IMO worked great for a record store as well... WTF! .... is "Spot" staying?
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Denizen
Interesting remark about New World Record "selling its soul for parking spaces".
Hertel Ave. is indeed getting a lot more exciting these days, but it's a bit dishonest to say that NWR is moving onto Hertel. Their new stripmall space is far removed from the walkable context of Hertel's commercial stretch. The corner of Delaware/Hertel is as hostile and uninviting to pedestrians as any typical busy suburban intersection.
NWR will lose 100% of the plentiful walking traffic they had on Elmwood for potential clientele. Once an independent (especially hip-flavored) business removes themselves from a funky, walkable retail strip for suburban-style digs they are playing in a totally new ballpark where a successful business model must be more like larger-format chain stores.
Though,. like someone said above, more power to NWR if they do better business in the new location. Somehow I don't think this will happen.
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Vince_Red
I was horrified when I read that New World is moving to a strip mall. On my frequent passes through Buffalo, the Spot-New World combination is my point of reference. If I am pressed for time and don't have time to do anything else, stopping there, combined with at least a short walk around the neighborhood, gives me a basic Buffalo fix.
As I think more about it, though, I have to admit that I am thrilled to hear that NWR remains a going concern as it very much deserves to be. So many times I have not been able to find what I am looking for in any record store only to end up finding it at NWR. Of course, there is also the Sound Garden in Syracuse, but I expect to remain a loyal New World customer after the move.
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Denizen
Also, great ideas on a shuttle bus route connecting the city's successful business districts-- from Downtown to Allentown, Elmwood Village, Buff State/Albright Knox/Delaware Park, Delaware plazaville, (Bendersonville) Hertel/North Park, to University Heights and UB South Campus.
I remember writing about exactly the same idea back when I wrote for this site. I dubbed it the "Green Line", a smaller, cool-looking bus that would connect Buffalo's neighborhood assets instead of keep them cordoned off into competing "islands". This would be a no-brainier and elevate our public transit from being just a combination of downtown commuter and poverty shuttle service. A better public transit system means more people will use it, therefore making a less car-dependent lifestyle more palatable for more people.
Start hounding people at the NFTA I guess!
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cityindustry
That's exactly it Denizen. Yes a shuttle would be great for people and great for businesses, actually making public transit usable other than just commuting... So the kicker is, isn't the NFTA a business? Don't they WANT to make money?? An express shuttle would make lots of money. And it's not a replacement for bus lines since this would only have a few hubs. You would still need to find your way to the hubs, by bus, rail or foot. Everyone wins with something like this. Everyone. (person on the street, small business, big box, transit, government)
Wake up NFTA!!!
And anyone that says they are a long time customer of NWR will continue to support them. Otherwise you are just a casual shopper. Kinda like when HOTH closed and the same people that were up in arms where the people that said they hadn't been there in 3 years. NWR is obviously trying to keep their business going. So we need to support them.
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mjman4
I lived off of Elmwood Ave for 4 years, and when i went to buy a place of my own had been priced out. The housing market has become just out of reach for us young folk, and the same may be true with the eclectic little shops that young folk shop at! I bought a house right in the middle of the most vibrant block on Hertle Ave, and have never looked back. My tenants pay my mortgage, and i have great resturants to satisfy my needs....and now, a record store! excellent! Elmwood IS BECOMING a high rent district. That is not a bad thing though.. we need some of those here in Western NY. It shows vibrancy and true assett diversity. Hertle is the new place to look....maybe in ten years it will be Blackrock, Hamlin Park, University Heights, Bailey...but right now it is Hertel! Come and ride the wave!
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jerkface
I was venting in another thread about this. I buy music frequently from NWR because of it's location. They aren't the cheapest and they don't allways have the best selection, but they are in my hood and are in a location condusive to my dog-walking/coffee drinking/shopping habits. Which all lead to alot of sponanteous "maybe I'll go see what's new" browsing and buying at NWR. I won't drive to Hertel to do any of that and If I'm eating or shopping on the heart of Hertel, I'm not going to walk 10 blocks west and across Deleware to buy expensive/limited selection cd's. It's just not convienient anymore. Hopefully for NWR there are enough people like me in their new hood who will pick up the slack, but I think alot of their regular customers will go elsewhere. I know my loyalty to them was because they were in my community and within walking distance. I wish them luck, but I think they are too quick to destroy their one market advantage - location on elmwood.
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AvenueBooks
Queeneyes: Avenue Books at 1211 Hertel (between Fairchild/Virgil and Traymore/Lovering) also has wireless access. So too I think does Buffalo Bean and Leaf Cafe (corner of Crestwood and Hertel).
Re: New World Records coming to Hertel - while some EV customers may not like the location change, NWR is still filling a local urban need. North Buffalo residents and visitors constantly ask me where they can pick up music that is within walking distance. The options before were still a short drive away - the Record Baron in Kenmore, and Record Theater at UB Main St. I welcome them to the neighborhood. They're needed, they're wanted, they're solvent and they're expanding. I call that a case study in a local independent success.
While it's an interesting comparison, I doubt NWR will suffer the same ambiance lobotomy as the Hippodrome. The contrast of the Hippodrome's change was much, much stronger. NWR is not moving out of an ancient, historically significant downtown location to a strip mall. It's moving from a pseudo strip parcel to an honestly strip parcel. The change of architectural venue is negligible. If Old Editions Bookshop moved to a strip plaza, then maybe we could use the Hippodrome comparison, but it's not particularly applicable to New World.
That said, I'm not a fan of the Delware development between Linden and Kenmore. I think it all looks like Sheridan and Transit: a very bad thing. NWR would have been much better off in the now-vacant Cardmart space on Hertel in the North Park stretch. It's very close to 2500 sq. ft, has parking in front and enjoys the thickest concentration of walker/shoppers. And obviously, no strip mall stigma.
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cityindustry
al-alo... Maybe someone at BRO or someone else with any sort of inside track can forward these express shuttle ideas to the NFTA. I'm sure there are some hoops to jump through and god knows what red tape, but it just doesn't seem that hard to do. We're not talking tracks and rails or right-of-ways (heheh, yet).
And while I'm not a fan of that particular corner of Hertel, for those that say it is sooo out of the way on Hertel... walking from Hertel/Parkside to Hertel/Delaware is the same distance as walking from Elmwood/Utica to Elmwood/Bird.
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rickyrick
I always hated that section of Hertel. It's so Suburban and far from the sidewalk.
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LeftCoast
Back to the topic of New World's intended move: I still can't believe that people can honestly think this is a smart choice. I work in retail and 500 square feet is a miniscule difference. Maybe the rent is significantly cheaper, which would at least make the move more understandable, but again, it all comes down to foot traffic.
After reading the last 40+ comments, I have to ask you all - how can anyone consider the strip mall at Delaware and Hertel part of the Hertel neighborhood??????? People, get real!!! So when you use this kind of logic to talk the area up do you also include K-Mart??? I said it before and I'll say it again - the strip mall location IS AN INTERSECTION, period.
Lastly (and yes, I'm totally worked up about this), most folks commenting here seem to have forgotten a HUGE fact: record stores are struggling because most everyone in their teens, twenties, and thirties buys their music ONLINE in the year 2007! Jerkface you were right on - the only reason to support New World on a regular basis has been because of the atmosphere / vibe / location. Once those things are gone, it's a lot easier to turn on the computer and cheaply and efficiently order music online. Maybe this makes me and my peers terrible spoiled little urban jerks, but I just trying to tell y'all like it is.
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AtwaterLouse
Really? According to the Buffalo News the current store in 2500 sq ft and the new store will be 3000 sq ft. So that's an extra 500 which is a 20% increase. Hardly sounds miniscule. Room for 20% more products, potentially.
Nobody can predict the future and know for sure if this will make them more successful, so everyone is speculating. But the owners have the best insight to what portions of their sales are to neighborhood people, passers-by, and others.
No doubt they'll get some new customers from having a parking lot, plus the extra space will let them carry more products, plus the lower rent... there's a lot of potential upsides. But there's also good things about Elmwood and risk in changing.
Damn, this much grief they get over moving to Hertel - imagine the reaction if they'd moved to evil Amherst.
Why be so worked up about this?
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JohnB
One thing that is really rather funny about this NWR move and all the angst that its caused (see above) is that a couple of BRO/Hertel Avenue strings back more than one (at least a dozen or so) people who posted about Hertel described it, the Hertel Avenue community, as "GHETTO."
Hmm, as a North Buffalo homeowner and Hertel business patron, I gotta say, "that's cute." Now its the hip and real place to hang and catch a youthful vibe? My how the wind changes. You gotta love the flippancy here at BRO. Like, um, havn't you EV snobs realized that the current NWR/Spot location/building is actually a suburban 'lifestyle center' at its best?
BTW, Avenue Books, dead on about the card store being great space! Good luck NWR!
-John
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al-alo
in retort:
umm isnt NWR basically in a strip mall now? that building is not exactly on the nation registar of historic places, silly people!
and as to th 500 sq ft., that really isnt a lot. basically a big bathroom. but the layout probably matters more than the actual area. if the old store was shoe horned in to an unworkable space, the small difference may be a vast improvement.
and so what its next to a kmart? yeah, it sucks, and its ugly as sin. how else will that vast nasty place disappear? you just cant ignore it and pretend it doesnt exist like it is the north part of elmwood. thankfully, that kmart and that old tops cannot be much longer for this world, at least in the current form.
and hey, isnt there an awful blockbuster in the same plaza as the current NWR diggs?
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crc
Right on JohnB. I think many of the people that are posting on this thread aren't even homeowners in the EV. I almost sense that this thread is becoming an 'us vs. them' discussion too. I'm sure that's not what was intended by the author.
I'll say it again. My wife and I love Elmwood. We still frequent it for dinner and drinks quite often. But I almost think that it's becoming too much of a good thing, if that makes any sense. Real estate is skyrocketing there, both residential and business and I think you're seeing the result of that. Small businesses and young families are moving to different locations that they can afford. Aside from the location that NWR chose (see my post above for more on that), I think this is an obvious result of that.
In order for communities to grow and prosper, it must be easy for younger people and young businesses to establish a foundation there. And it just isn't in the EV.
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sally
ALO ALO: 500 sq feet is the size of a bathroom? 500 square feet is a space 15 feet wide by 34 feet long or a 22 and a half foot square. That is way bigget than any bathroom i have seen except perhaps in HSBC Arena. Going fom 2,500 sq ft to 3,000 represents a VERY SIGNIFICANT 20% increase in selling space.
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queenseyes
New World's original store was 800sq.'.
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AvenueBooks
Listen, Hertel *is* a little bit ghetto. So? We like it this way. Seriously. We prefer it. Do "Villagers" actually think we'd trade our slick cool teenagers for their patchouli trailing hippies? Our single parent households for their college apartments filled to the rafters with not-quite 20-somethings? Our butchers and barbers and bakeries and bookstores (oh my!) for their precious boutiques? Our aging ethnic owner occupied homes for their shitty little condo rows? Please. Not on our worst day. Is that clear enough? We've got our own thing going on Hertel, and believe me we do not in any way ASPIRE to be the Hertel Village. As if, I say, and I snort in your general direction as well.
Yeah, okay, BR may not be an ideal venue for this particular opinion, but as a cradle Buffalonian I'm telling you - some of you REALLY underestimate how ugly the current Village snobbery is to the rest of the city, but also to a good number of your own. That's what people are leaving -- the microclimate. It's overpriced and can be extremely unpleasant. A timely South Park episode aired last night - about the Smug Cloud. That's what's going over the upper West Side right now, and the inflated real estate market is an indicator, not a cause. I.e. Quit digging your own farts already.
Lastly, an invitation. If anyone wants to discuss these issues of real estate, demographics, neighborhood development, etc, with me in person, please feel free to stop in my store any time and bring it up. Besides all the books, we encourage conversation about culture, politics and the city. All civilly expressed opinions are welcome. And that's fo' real.
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al-alo
sally,
i think one of us has the wrong way to calculate square footage. isnt a 5' x 10' area 500 square feet? i dont think i understand how you got your numbers.
im not saying that my understanding is right, but i think it is.
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Denizen
Hoss said (quite ignorantly):
You have no clue what you are talking about. The Elmwood Village area is indeed packed to the brim with attractive 20-somethings. If you would actually come down and talk a walk sometime, you'd realize this. Yea, there are plenty of moneyed older folks in the neighborhood to, but any successful neighborhood has people of all ages. But don't fret, Hertel has it's share of kids to. I've often seen them with their bloodshot eyes buying Dutchies at the A-Plus (corner of Hertel/Colvin) around 10PM.
JohnB said,
WTF?? Are you on crack? That building might be newer-built and one story, but it's anything but suburban.
If you people really want to start a Elmwood vs. Hertel pissing contest, I might as well throw my hat in the ring:
My block of Elmwood has more foot traffic on a Monday morning than the busiest part of Hertel does on a Friday evening. Even then, most of Hertel's "foot traffic" consists mostly of restaurant/bar patrons walking to and from their cars parked on the street. No one really "walks Hertel" except for a few dogwalkers/strollers and bored teenagers with time to kill after school.
I grew up on a street off Hertel, so I know the neighborhood all too well. It's nice, but still has a ways to go before becoming "cool". People in my current neighborhood (EV) walk places, whereas almost every able-bodied adult in North Buffalo drives just about everywhere.
With that said, both neighborhood are great in their own contrasting ways. It's just some of the sniping above is unwarranted.
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zenmasterj
5'x10' is 50 square feet. You could use 50'x10' if you wanted to. She's pretty close with her math. Just multiply the two sides to get the area.
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al-alo
d'oooooooooooooh! where the hell did i put that silly little place holder sry!!! i owe ya both a cd at the new location!
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jerkface
Amazing how quickly a discussion about a reocrd store relocation turns into a sophomoric bitch fest, or maybe it's par for the course on this site. It's not Hertel vs. Elmwood, it's good location vs. shitty one. Let's all agree, Hertel has great locations, Elmwood has shitty ones, and vice versa. This particular location undermines NWR's market advantage, which I think they are underestimating.
I am a record strore junkie and I think my opinion is fairly valid. I am their target market - young professionsal w/ dispossable income and a severe music addiction. I actually have a monthly cd budget that I spend at NWR and other stores. NWR doeesn't offer a pricing advantage and they don't offer a selection advantage. What they have offered, which I feel has led to NWR's success, is a great location that is condusive to heavy foot traffic due to the successful coffee shop next door. They need to recognize that their relationship w/ Spot is what's keeping them in business while other record stores fail (HOTH for example). I don't think NWR is a destination on Elmwood, like other small buisinesses, it's the synergy from the strip that brings in revenues. They would be better off in the heart of Hertel where they could try to replicate that model. But they're not, they will be 10 blocks +/- and a busy 4-lane street away from that Hertel energy, which is the other side of the world in urban foot traffic terms.
Maybe I'm worng, but it's my guess that they won't be as successful in the new location. Time will tell though. Let's see how NWR is doing in 2 or 3 years. Maybe they can reinvent themselves as a destination record store. Record Theater has been more successfull at this by having huge locations w/ tons of inventory and discount prices. That's never been NWR's model. Now go ahead and misinterperet my comments and only hear/read what you want, call me a 'village snob', and defend hertel from my 'bashing'. I'm just talking market strategy, not hood vs. hood.
and 50'-0" x 10'-0" (500sq.ft.) is alot of cd racks. CD's are small and that's alot of inventory in 500sq.ft.
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LanyV
I urge everyone to PLEASE read comments like those of Jerkface above, and others that are more objective and look at this from a business standpoint and not from an emotional neighborhood vs. neighborhood standpoint. It makes me so sad to read the comments above. Hertel and Elmwood offer different things to different people...thts what happens in cities...GROW UP!!!!! This is not an Elmwood vs. Hertel discussion, and it shouldnt be! Each 'hood offers positives and negatives to those who choose to live/work/play in each one! Chill out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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AvenueBooks
I fail to see what's wrong with an Elmwood versus Hertel conversation evolving. This is not some contentious divorce or a deathmatch for superiority. It's a discussion. The two neighborhoods have a lot to compare and contrast. Certainly there's no reason for anyone to get rude. But neither is there a reason to attempt squelching the discussion or to address those having it as if they were irascible children. Opinions about our neighborhoods can be intense. That's a fact. But let's hear each other out. Turning our backs, shielding our eyes, covering our ears and singing LALALALA is...well...not ideal.
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pcnorth22
I'm not gonna chime on on whether or not I think this is a successful move or not for nwr...
I'm just concerned that what many deem as the "anchor" stretch of Elmwood will now have both the NWR shop empty in addition to the feel rite/lab indigo spot (which has been vacant for quite ahile now)
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LanyV
You have a point Avenuebooks...i should just refine what i meant to say... the Elmwood vs. Hertel conversation is fine...the childish behavior is not. Have the discussion. Just stop the outright bashing of individualls that choose to call each neighborhood home. EV "snob" I am not! I love, and participate in both 'hoods...I just choose to live off of Elmwood. I do not see most of the above comments as a "discussion". I see it as outright "us" vs. "them" and childish kindergarten behaviour...
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cityindustry
and there we have it... This city's "give it here / it's mine / i'm right you're wrong / pry it from my dead hands / last man standing" attitude that spreads down from its inept government, politicians, and transit authority, has pitted neighborhood against neighborhood... yet again. Those institutions are not giving us the tools to strengthen our neighborhoods. It's up to us to partake in what each neighborhood has to offer.
How can Hertel get any better unless we all help, how can Masten or Riverside or downtown for that matter "Rise" unless we all contribute. This site is called Buffalo Rising not Elmwood Rising. In truth no neighborhood is cooler than the next. Everyone has a different idea of that. Some are fairing better than others. But we are all residents of the CITY of Buffalo and we are as a collective NOT fairing well as a city. This is no surprise. I think the EV just tends to live with blinders to some degree.
As a renter currently in the EV we have it good. And we think we have everything we need. But as a home owner in a few weeks I will roll up my sleeves in my new Hertel neighborhood to make that the best it can be. To help it stay above water, which is all we can really ask for here.
It's great to see so many people this passionate about their neighborhoods and their concepts of urban development. We need to take that passion and turn it onto our government and the transit authority. Ask them why there are empty buildings and houses... ask them why there is suburban style airport runways of parking lots in our city retail areas... ask them why haven't they expanded the rail, or made inter-neighborhood bus lines better... ask them WHY police are not WALKING the beat on Broadway/Jefferson or Hertel/Colvin or Allen/Franklin... channel that energy there instead of on each other.
Support NWR in their move or don't. But you better bet their next mo