Buffalo Rising Online

will u please stop posting "most recent comments" so people can actually read the story? how is anyone suppose to be able to read this with half the story cut off by a comment of a different topic? ITS ANNOYING AND HAPPENS OFTEN

will u please stop posting "most recent comments" so people can actually read the story? how is anyone suppose to be able to read this with half the story cut off by a comment of a different topic? ITS ANNOYING AND HAPPENS OFTEN

@nykidd83: huh?

This building is awesome and it's too bad it was let to rot. I walk by it frequently and always thought it would make a great loft or condo conversion.

It's a shame there aren't enough investors who have the resources or skill to take on million dollar renovation projects in edge neighborhoods without massive public subsidies. It's a shame the market does not support restoring or filling these buildings. Perhaps if more people moved back to Buffalo, there would be a market for these types of projects.

such a great building...I hope it doesn't see the wrecking ball anytime soon.

BuffaloGeek

It is a shame that the owners of buildings like this don't maintain the roofs or the masonry. And yes it is a shame that more people don't move into the city isn't it.

Actually, when I say Buffalo, I mean the region. Yes, it would be great if people moved here and contributed to the tax base and were active in local elections and community groups. If that were so, perhaps we wouldn't elect empty suits like Byron Brown to political office and we might make some progress on the large scale issues which create this continual spinning vortex of FAIL.

It is a shame that owners can't keep up their roofs and masonry. We don't know the particular financial issues surrounding this owner or property and we shouldn't speculate. Do we know the condition the building was in when it was purchased? If an event caused additional damage to the property? If insurance paid out for any issues with property damage? If he has been in housing court for violations? If he ran out of money or economic conditions changed or the property took a massive drop in valuation after purchase which prohibited investment? Maybe someone could put a call into the owner and see what he has to say.

I know it makes more inflammatory copy to just rail against the owner or the system, but this could be a nuanced and complicated problem.

Real estate investment and speculation is a VERY risky game in this town unless you know how to grease the local hacks or know how to exploit tax credits. Investors who buy buildings and try to renovate on their own will find there is little return on their initial cash outlay. Until that changes, we'll lose a couple of buildings each month.

Why is it that everything the owner of this building touches either turns to a pile of #@+% or goes bankrupt and is left in bad shape or partially done? Good thing someone took over the Hotel Lenox or there would be a really big hole on North St. too. How much Urban Renewal or other public money has been sucked out of the city by the same guy with no results?

If there are no buyers then I think it should be knocked down. It is such an eyesore. Would I like to see it renovated into anything; yes, but vacant buildings do more damage then having this lot turn into a parking lot. I know its a nice building and all you tree hugers love it but its time to move on and catch up with all the cities who dont have you protesters and have awsome looking new buildings that make there city stand out and look fresh.

This is simply unbelievable, and reading through yesterday's article I could really feel, in my own gut, the visceral reaction of commenters like anthonycapone and comptart_lws. I couldn't agree more with everything written here by STEEL, and I share the outrage of the commenters. Why, when I don't live in Buffalo--? Well, I came to care about this building, and the unforgettable gem of a neighborhood - 'Little Summer' - surrounding it after discovering it during some exploration of Buffalo's amazing west side. And that appreciation was cemented when I read - not long ago - Buffalo chronicler Mark Goldman's lyrical description of that neighborhood where he once lived in a house nestled up against the walls of the former livery stable. Goldman's account can be found here: http://www.buffaloah.com/a/summer/388/index.html

Here's an excerpt: "To come home to Little Summer is to be embraced by place.

My house is more removed, still more rooted in the past than the rest of the street. More of an authentic cottage, it is the third of three identical one and a half story buildings joined closely, like pearls on a chain. All are on a tiny lane that runs off Little Summer. To get home, I walk down a narrow, secluded path, pass through a creaky wooden gate, admire the sun-mottled brick walls of my neighbor's homes, and pass through another gate, under an arbor of ancient branches, into my new home. The house itself is much like it was when it was built one hundred and twenty-odd years ago The floors are six inch tongue and groove, and the view outside my bedroom window is the leaf-covered brick wall of White's Livery Stable on Jersey Street. I hear no street noises, ever.

What I like most about living at 388 Summer Street is that, now, more than ever before, I have a sense of connection to the unfolding story of this city, its future as well as its past. Despite its age -- my house was already close to thirty years old at the end of the last century -- there is something about this house and this neighborhood that feels very contemporary, as if there are lessons of value in these historic stones. We can learn from Little Summer... ."

Yes, Mark, we can...but will we--?

We can learn, but I don't know if we can save everything or even the majority of these buildings. When you have 100 fires burning and only 4 hydrants, well, sometimes shit burns. The way to fix it is to add more fire hydrants. Ya dig?

I have loved this building forever, Freudenheim is a criminal. I sy we picket his house on Penhurst tonight! who's with me?

Some of these fires could have been put out before they became an issue.

Residents in the area or this building report of complaining for many years about its condition with no results.

Though the building was for sale It is reported that the owner would not sell it for a reasonable cost. Reasonable cost is subjective of course but potential buyers allegdly have noted the building's poor condition as a factor in their not being willing to pay the owners sum.

Looking at air views of the structure shows a building with a roof covering decades past its useful life.

These buildings are extremely valuable a a piece of heritage that can not be replaced. Should they be lost to history because they are poorly managed by their owner or because they are not currently economically valuable?

This is just another result of our rampant throw away society of waste and inefficiency.

KLW- your crazy! People wake up and get out of the 1930's, its time to move on, drive to Pitt, Toronto, Cleveland (if you poor bastards can afford the gas) you dont see any rotten old building like this anymore. All you see is new glass building that make the city look new and awsome.

After a little digging I found that White's Livery Stable was designed by one of Buffalo's most significant 19th-century architects, Richard A. Waite. Waite designed many significant Buffalo buildings, as well as a number in Canada, including the magnificent Ontario Parliament building in Toronto. Buffalo architect Louise Bethune, who would become the first woman member of the American Institute of Architects, and designer of the Hotel Lafayette downtown, had her first professional job as a draftsperson in Waite's office. More on Waite and his projects here: http://www.buffaloah.com/a/archs/waite/index.html

By any measure this is a building worthy of preservation, even if by extraordinary or creative means.

KLW- Yes every city has there little parts like that, but how much of Buffalo do you guys want to be like that? Literally evry single building that has a plan to be knocked down or turned into somthing else you guys find a problem with and finally we have a Mayor that laughs at you guys and does what is right. Sorry if you think im demeaning but I mean enough is enough!

Buffaloboy.

Over 50% of downtown has been demolished. You can't tear down everything. To make the argument that there is an effort to save everything is disingenuous.

By the way you obviously have not been to Pittsburgh or Cleveland because they both have a problem with poorly maintained and abandoned buildings every bit as great if not greater than Buffalo. As for Toronto that city with the booming economy. You will find that the most popular most expensive parts of the city are the parts with the preserved historic urban fabric. Maybe you would also like to see San Francisco and Boston and their huge swaths of historic buildings, buildings that feed the tremendous popularity and attractiveness of these places. These are not "little" parts of these cities as you describe it. These historic areas are vast swaths of these cities including NYC, Toronto, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland.

Perhaps it is you who needs to get out of your 1960's vintage urban renewal tear everything down mentality. That concept for urban improvement has been discredited for quite a few years now. Except that is for Buffalo of course.

I agree that this is a horrible situation and the demolition of this building should be the last resort not the first resort. Richmond has made a great return, especially over the last 3 years. When I go on the Garden Walk, I also look at the homes and buildings on each street Often, positive change can be noticed in the number houses with fresh paint, the number of lawns that are taken care of. Richmond had a ramshackle quality to it for 25 years. So it's great to now notice that "ramshackle" no longer applies.

I'm very curious to know the answers to a few questions that I have. Legally, can Housing Court order the sale of a building like this over the objections of the owner? Can Housing Court order a repeat offender to sell his properties except for the one he resides in.? If the city does an emergency demolition of this building because of landlord malfeasance, can the city make the landlord pay for the demolition? Finally, what is the point of the landlord's strategy here? Is he trying to get a free demolition of the building so he can just sell the land? Does he have some sort of insurance policy that will compensate him for the loss of the building? In other words, what does he gain by his behavior with this property and the ones on Wadsworth that outweighs a negative impression and the enmity of all his neighbors?

buffaloboy- I lived in Cleveland for a few years and you obviously haven't been around the neighborhoods there. In most cases, Cleveland is far worse than Buffalo. Perhaps you can tap into your enormous bank account and take a ride down there.

KLW, I've just sent you some possible contacts that may be helpful for the rally to you at savethelivery@buffalo.com and to your BRO inbox. And seeing if I can rejigger my schedule to come out.

Everybody, SaveTheLivery.com is up and active with a notice about the rally! If you care about this building - and not seeing this same old demolition-by-neglect scenario keep playing itself out, forward the notice about the rally (and maybe a link to this BRO article) to your contacts! Come help halt the madness!

STEEL, is there any way you can get an article up about the rally--?

why aren't we all at Freudenheim's door right now protesting his continue middle finger to the city

I would like to know what percentage of people on this site who decry the loss of historic buildings in Buffalo actually own one and are restoring it. You can buy a 100 year old home in Buffalo for $5K or $10K. Its not hard. Try it yourself, and learn about the maze of regulations, fights with the Planning Board, sticks but no carrots from government, and lack of capital in Buffalo. Doing the right thing is expensive and hard - good people fail at well-meaning projects all the time. And normally they have preservationists (who have never taken true responsibility and owned a single building themselves) yelling at them and hauling them into court.

I'm with BuffaloGeek - I don't know this owner, his finacial situation, his background, how many other buildings he's lost, or whether he is truly to blame. But I know court actions, fines and judgements rarely positively affect an owner who can't afford to fix up a building. And many buildings in Buffalo have NEGATIVE value, because they are so full of asbestos and toxic material it costs more money to demolish the building than the land underneath is worth.

I hope the rally works. I wish I could make it down. I hope the Livery Building is saved, as well as 1000 other buildings in Buffalo. But there is a finite amount of money in this town, and its well short of the billions it would take to save this building, AM&A's, Transfiguration Church, and every other building deserving of it.

The front of this building should be saved and used just like the old mansion on Delaware Ave was just renovated and saved. The frontage of this old building is unique and should be preserved to some use. This is what makes Buffalo so unique.

We were going to work on this project, this is so sad. All we can do is wait and see what happens to the process now.

For anyone interested in seeing what the inside of the building looked like BEFORE the collapse, I have some shots from a couple weeks ago.

This isn't about saving everything it is about saving anything... Downtown except for a couple blocks has been obliterated. Some jewels remain. The connective tissue that makes a downtown a lively attractive place has been demolished.

The east side is being literally scrapped 'clean' by politicians and lack of government investment in anything but demolitions.

Allentown is holding on but is still constantly loosing buildings and battles against absentee landlords. See Franklin Street building and the probably 30 other buildings in the next year or two that are following the same path.

EV and North Buffalo has been winning a lot of battles but generally are not nearly as old as places that are actually historic.

the city honestly doesn't care because if it did it wouldn't have such a woe is the owner mentality that allows them to create buildings that become a public danger. The city is a reactive organization not proactive and that has been its downfall for 30 years. The city wont spend a penny to secure buildings like this but will spend millions of dollars buildings crappy new homes or replacing windows in structure that don't deserve it.

This was on my short list of future homes if I struck it big in the lottery. The first time I saw it off RIchmond I had to turn around and go back to look. Like the small cottages behind it, this is a HUGE part of what makes the immediate area unique. The missing tooth this would create is immeasurable. Let some of the empty houses on Koons stay up for a few more years and stabilize this structure now. Take from the owner do to any of his misuse of property and offer it to someone one with tax ababtements/grants etc to turn it back around. The city will never see the demo money paid. Better to put it torward adding to the neighborhood rather than off to a land fill.

The city needs to take a stand here and set a precedent showing they will support the neighborhood that has made tremendous strides in the last decade.

How is the owner's financial situation relevant? He has a responsibility top maintain his property. If he's short on cash, that doesn't mean it's cool to neglect his building until it starts falling on people. It's time for folks like these to start going to jail.

I'll be at the rally -- 4PM at Jersey and Richmond.

Colin - the owner's financial situation is relevant because many of these buildings are unsellable, even for a dollar. So if you can't afford to fix a building, and can't sell it, what would you have the owner do? And how does the owner being in jail help the building get fixed?

This was on my short list of future homes if I struck it big in the lottery. The first time I saw it off RIchmond I had to turn around and go back to look. Like the small cottages behind it, this is a HUGE part of what makes the immediate area unique. The missing tooth this would create is immeasurable. Let some of the empty houses on Koons stay up for a few more years and stabilize this structure now. Take from the owner do to any of his misuse of property and offer it to someone one with tax ababtements/grants etc to turn it back around. The city will never see the demo money paid. Better to put it torward adding to the neighborhood rather than off to a land fill.

The city needs to take a stand here and set a precedent showing they will support the neighborhood that has made tremendous strides in the last decade.

sorry for the double post ;)

And no offence to those sticking it out on Koons Ave either. It would be nice for the city to have a plan to get (promote) residents to move into more dence surounds instead of being stuck on streets/blocks where vacant houses out number the non-vacant ones. But that's another topic altogether.

It is my understanding that the owner had multiple offers for this building over the last few years but refused them.

I would have the owner do what's legally required -- maintain the property so that it isn't a hazard to others. If it means he loses money, too f'n bad.

And no, jail time wouldn't fix the property. But it might make others think twice about allowing their properties to rot.

I WILL REPEAT NY QUESTION - WHAT IS THE OWNER'S MOTIVE FOR HIS BEHAVIOR. ? Is he trying to get a free demolition of the building so he can just sell the land? Does he have some sort of insurance policy that will compensate him for the loss of the building? In other words, what does he gain by his behavior with this property and the ones on Wadsworth that outweighs a negative impression and the enmity of all his neighbors?

Prodigal Son, well said. An abundance of opinion's and second guessing, not a lot of callouses from putting their words into action. Time works on all things. Our bodies give out after a certain period, no one thinks to blame our parents. Watch the equivalent happen with a building, and somehow the owner should be held responsible for the passing of time.

As we always seem to come back to... if your so concerned about a building, buy it. But if things go south, you'll have lot's of people to tell you what you should have done differently.

benf... buildings are nothing like bodies. when properly built of strong materials like this structure (unlike the telescoping homes on the east side) they can last hundred and hundreds of years. The owner is the one who maintains and ensures that the building remain secure. It happens all over the world. Buildings constructed like this last lifetimes over. It is the legal responsibility of the homeowner to properly maintain such structures. If you couldn't afford he he shouldn't have bought it or sold it to someone else.

Wah wah wah

Sadly, the issues in Buffalo start in City Hall and end in City Hall. Keep electing union-backed people like Brown and you'll keep the status quo. It's that simple. No one ever wants to stand up for management practices that involve actual management, performance reviews, and other real world management techniques. So you get vindictive people like the buiding department who spend more time harassing Harvey Garrett thant they do dealing with the real problems, which they conveniently ignored more than they've dealt with.

From a private sector standpoint, the government in Buffalo, and the state as a whole, runs counterproductive to society, the economy and technology. Instead of becoming a more lean, efficient, cost-effective organization in response to disinvestment, lost population and rising costs, they hire more people, hand out better contracts and continue business as usual. People complain and bitch in forums like this but no one votes anyone out of office when they fail to impart change.

You get what you vote for from Tony Massielo to Byron Brown. These guys are the first in line to pose with a police officer or fire fighter because of the culture of fear, the fear that if we don't put more on the streets, crime will run rampant. Sorry, crime is a socio-economic phenomena and more cops do not guarantee a reduction in crime. In fact, cops and fire fighters do not prevent crime and fires, they respond to it.

Because the average voter or small neighborhood group does not represent a large enough number of votes to justify the attention of a politician, they can be ignored. But at the same time, these same people being ignored are played to come election time with promises of safer streets and a better community. So they get elected.

Buffalo (the city) is a textbook example of bad leadership, nepotism, poor management, patronage and unionism. And that, I am afraid will not change.

My belief is this: most people are intimidated by politicians or not confident enough to challenge them. In this dfay and age, when everyone can come to BRO and rail away, why doesn't any group start a website that lays out the voting records and stances of all elected officials? Seriously. When Brown runs again, he'll run on promises, the Buffalo News, because it sucks, will not hold him to any of his past 4 years. So who will? Same with the council. Smae with the county legislature. Wouldn't it be better to have all the BS waded through and the facts laid out on each candidate so you could make a real educated vote?

That's a long rant but the reality is, like a private sector company, you're only as good as the people leading the charge.

1. The incentive to let the building rot is simple -- speculation without consequence. Owners can hold onto a building and hope that someone comes along with an offer that knocks their socks off. If it doesn't happen, no biggie, sincve they haven't spent any $$ trying to maintain it in the interim. It's the same thing we saw with the Genesee block downtown for years and years.

2. If people care about a building, they aren't required to buy it in order to prevent it from falling into disrepair. Wanna know why? Because there are laws that say you must maintain your property! Everyone has the right to insist that the law be upheld, even if they don't happen to own any property.

Several years ago I was looking at real estate in NE wash DC Near Gaulludet UNiv. The neighborhood was not gentrified. The agent was going to show me something special. It was a row of townhomes where the entire backwall of this row of (all masonary) structures had collapsed. See.. said the excited agent. Most of the demolation work in the back has been done for you . Visualize it with big glass windows there.