Buffalo Rising Online

A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words

The wrecking crews sure have been busy. Where did all those people park back in the day?

While I think this is a well-thought out analysis, I don't want it to be an excuse to block something being done. Demolishing buildings in great swaths with no plans for development is detremental (see the failed Urban Renewal Projects and picture above), but the problem comes when someone might want to demolish something in order to put something new up (ie the Elmwood Hotel). While I think the restorations are great and have proven their worth, non-significant buildings (a matter of opinion) should come down in favor of a project that enhances the "urbanity" of our city and helps us to re-densify.

Well said and it needs to be repeated often.

But after having lost so much....we are entering into territories where we are trying to save the integrity of the community with some of the buildings we are trying to save but even these are worth saving because they provide the anshors and stability for neighborhoods whether homes, schools turned into lofts, churches, stores, hotels, warehouses, etc.

What we really need are zoning laws with things like underground parking (to discourage surface lots), build to sidewalk, 1st floor windows.....zoning to encourage walkable communities and maybe zoning to preserve the architectural / period nature of the community.

Looking at how much we have voluntarily lost.....not just in architecture but in people and families. Its Buffalo's Holocaust.

Wow. The photo is astonishing...can't help but wonder how the 190 severing off the waterfront area contributed to the demise or decline of the some of these neighborhoods...

Dear Steel,

So I suppose you think we should save the rest of those old useless buildings - eh? And stop progress!

Just look at how much better Buffalo has done since that absurd postcard picture was taken. We now have almost half as many people here with many times more parking spaces.

Just because parking lots pay a fraction of the taxes that a building pays is no reason to like buildings better. Buidlings get "old". No one complains about an "old parking lot".

Daniel Sack

great graphics! It shows the legacy of Robert Moses and Urban Renewal.

But....we now live in a time of great nostalgia that appreciates old architecture, because as we have seen on so many occasions, it just can not be replicated, and it reinforces a unique sense of place.

With that said, we must move forward. We cannot as a community continue to lament on the mistakes of our parents, but rather help create a community that reflects our time and place. If we collectively favor a dense urban core, than those interested should pony up and invest in it. This is certainly no the time to sit around and wait for the city, or the state, or the federal government to recreate our city. Private development is what made this city great, and can do so in the future. INVEST IN YOUR CITY.

The city, state, and federal government have been and ARE re-creating Buffalo continuously by their by their lack of vision and courage, and by their inattention. The results have usually been disastrous, and Buffalo is by no means an isolated case.

There simply have not been over-arching state and federal policies in decades reflecting a belief that our cities (and most of the people in them), and their health, are of the highest importance to our society and deserve our best minds and our resources. (New Orleans, anyone?) Just read the vote-getting strategies of the two major political parties and you'll see how significant they regard our older cities to be, with a few exceptions based on the sheer numbers of people.

Buffalo could enlarge its preservation districts and/or adopt legislation requiring that no sound structure be needlessly destroyed without more serious consideration of the consequences for the physical, economic, and social structures of the city. Of course, some developers would scream and some people would claim their property rights were being taken away, but I believe such legislation can be crafted to withstand legal challenges, and it has been in other cities.

Daniel Sack, I share your dismay at the illogical thinking, inconsistency, and disconnect between some of the posts in BRO that attack NIMBY-ISM and then lament that past Buffalonians did not do more to save their precious buildings. Residents should always have their rights to question, review, discuss, analyze, and weigh the comparative advantages and disadvantages of any new structure without being ostracized.

Great post again, but allow me to throw another side to this discussion...

We lost some great buildings in the name of progress... old Erie County Savngs Bank, Bank of Buffalo at Main and Seneca, and the former EC Library come to mind right off the top. In other cases, some buildings deserved their rightful extinction, in my opinion.

Back in the 70's, there was actually a plan for an "Elm Oak Arterial" a sunken expressway a la Humboldt which would have walled off the east side from downtown and taken acres upon acres off of the tax rolls. A more modest surface arterial was laid out instead, and the centerpiece is a string of low rise office park buildings. The best outcome? Hell no, but some real derelict structures saw the wrecking ball and that is a good thing, I say.

Next is the baseball ballpark project. When an open air 19,500 seat stadium was proposed for the corner of Washington and Swan, oh did the kooks and obstructionists howl! Again, all one could find there was a bunch of weed strewn surface lots and maybe a handful of tumbledown buildings on the site, yet the "preservationists" were trying to dig up something... anything (like "George Washington slept here") to get historic site designation and stop the stadium dead in its tracks. That idiot Councilman Al Coppola was the big cheerleader for the naysayers.

Gratefully they failed... we got not only a new stadium, but an architectural gem which captured the essence of the adjoining neighborhood. Furthermore, we became the design marker which catapulted a wave of ballpark construction throughout the minor leagues. Today we are the third oldest ballpark in the IL... and with shovels going in the ground in Columbus and plans in the works for Richmond, we might soon be THE oldest. Yet Dunn Tire Park is still a jewel, still a fabulous place to go to and show off to visitors, and a real positive addition to downtown Buffalo.

When it comes to architectural preservation, the good news is - now we get it. Let's save and restore what is worth saving and restoring. Let's tear down what is too far gone, but only with a promise that development will take the old buildings' place.

And do it the right way!! for example, if you look at the plans and layout for the Canal Harbor neighborhood, you will see that the Commercial Slip is being dredged in the identical spot where it once stood, the streets that were once there will be laid out precisely where they were, and the plans are to hire an archtiect with expertise in replicating historical buildings... the 19th century builders of our great city will hopefully be looking down and smiling on the result!

replicating historic buildings! Too bad the real originals were not there...But at one time they were considered derelict.

Andrew...I do not totally disagree with you but by your measure we would not have a theater district today because it was once derelict and abandoned. We would now talking about how we could "replicate" it

Andrew, I take exception with the overall tone of your post. Which is uniformed, whiny, and ignorant of the facts.

The elm -oak arterial is the poster child for suburban developement in a downtown and should be noted as such garbage and not praised. The "derilict buildings" that got knocked down there and at the site of the ballpark where the same quality, and style of buildings that everyone raves about now when they are being turned into lofts.

Whats the reason that those buildings are still there in the Cobblestone district and Electric district? I'll give you a hint. Starts with a P................ . Do you know why there are even cobblestones in the cobblestone district? You guessed it again Preservationists. If it wasn't for those darn naysayer goofy preservationists then we would all be staring at stamped concrete in the Cobblestone district.

You also say that now we get it when it comes to preservation. Who? the politicians?, the developers?, then why did the ho-oats building just come down? why is the Federal court project planning to take out two significant structures for grass?. Why do we have to sue to stop demolitions, Baltimore style harbor projects, and Casino's. You use the Erie Canal Harbor Project as an expample of us doing it right. This project is the greatest testimony to preservation and citizens working together to do the right thing. The only reason that this great project is happening is because the preservationists who you refer to as kooks MADE IT HAPPEN! The rewatered Commercial slip, the street grid laid out in tact, the period style buildings. All this was a heart beat away from being destroyed by the City and developers It was only a court ruling brought about by a preservationist's that stopped it from happening. And that championed the historic plan that we have now.

All this was going on, before it was cool to be downtown. Before people like you knew what was important about urban living. And what makes a city attractive. The moment that the city is experiencing right now is a direct result of the hard work and efforts of some big hearted, smart and ballsy preservationist. Who love this city, who know what it means to be urban and stood up to oppressive governments, agencies, and selfish developers to preserve what is worth preserving. People who worked long hours without pay, to save our history, architecture and culture. We all owe them a debt of gratitude. Not uniformed offensive remarks from ignorant people.

Kelly -

Did I insult YOU? Did I call you or anyone else whom posted on this website names? While still in my teens, I volunteered hours and hours of my time cleaning and restoring Shea's Buffalo with the old Friends of the Buffalo Theatre. I stood shoulder to shoulder with a ragtag group of die hard volunteers to save that theatre when Harvey and Corky was trying to get their mits on it to milk it as a rock concert hall, strip it bare and wreck it for good. My first job after graduation was working for the theatre, doing promotions and group sales. PLEASE DON'T question my love and passion for my city and my interest in what's right for our future... I certainly believe you and I have more common goals than not.

You don't like the office park up and down Elm and Oak...OK that's fine. So then you would rather have had a sunken expressway??? I was just a little kid when they wrecked beautiful and stately Humboldt Parkway to excavate the Kensington. That was a good thing???

And sorry, those derelict buildings along Seneca between Washington and Elm where the ballpark sits today weren't worth saving. When the architects came up with the sketches for Pilot Field, the design was completely groundbreaking and forward looking in an era when baseball was erecting edifices like the Suncoast Dome in St. Petersburg and concrete monstrosities like the Diamond in Richmond and Lackawanna County Stadium in Scranton. Yet there was that element out there, lead by Al Coppola, who just could not see the forest for the trees. They were pushing to instead rehab the Rockpile, a totally outdated and way too big stadium in a challenged neighborhood. Am I bitter about these obstructionists? Hell yeah! But the good news is we won.. the city won... baseball won.

I am not trying to denigrate the overall good work of preservationists and architecture buffs. All I say is pick the fights worth fighting... there are plenty of good ones out there.

And yeah, I will always have issues with the NIMBY's, the crackpots, the naysayers, and the obstructionists... you see them rearing their ugly heads at every turn.. "Improve Zoo Don't Move" was their mantra when someone with vision dared to dream of a signature zoo. Well, enjoy that 19th century relic on Parkside and hold your nose when you walk into the reptile exhibit. Now let's block the Wyndham Hotel on Elmwood... those four ramshackle duplexes are sooooo much better. Back in the 80s it was - Go Away Pyramid Companies, we dont need your $160MM investment in a state of the art shopping mall..we've got the Appletree. Same old crap... it is dreary, depressing, and disgusting, and that's why nothing gets done in WNY.

Cheers to you Kelly... we can disagree and still be friends, OK?

Andrew,

You fall into the same old same old when you lump the build nothing group in with the people trying to save the remainder of Buffalo's heritage. The Galleria Mall had nothing to do in any way with preserving Buffalo's heritage. Why bring it up???????

You say you helped save Shea's and yet there are those who called for its demolition because of the exact same reasoning you use for building that you find no value in.

Please look around. Buffalo's growth is coming from those so called derelict buildings.

Well, there isnt much to complain about anymore is there. The growing real estate has taken many buildings off the demolition block and into redevelopment.

and there is plenty of room to build new. The biggest question is whether we are going to put low quality trailer park like buildings or high quality high density period buildings that re-integrate the fabric of the neighborhood.

The biggest complaint about city living is street parking and frankly there is plenty of room to emulate those duplexes by infilling with 3 story townhomes with first floor garages and porches and 2nd and 3rd floor apartments or 2nd & 3rd floor single family homes. They can be built in tudor, brick, stone wood or stucko...join the backyards with a community pool paid for by a small neighborhood association fee and Buffalo's neighborhoods will thrive.

But as we rehab the major remaining buildings....the debate really needs to shift to how we can encourage job creation and what kind of infill development will best re-weave the fabric of our communities.

and you cant think about new homes or preservation or infill development without thinking about jobs!

This post is a little unfair. We are currently riding a wave of high interest in Buffalo that most of us have not seen in our lifetime. Residential, business, sports, academic. So what's with the extraordinarily negatively valenced post STEEL? Complete with picture overlay with little red "X" marks highlighting the "sins" of our past? Couldn't you come up with anything better? It reads like a typical doomsday article in the Sunday Buffalo News.This is such a reactionary stance that it really does nothing more than bolster the opinion that preservationsts can be obstructionist and makes people mad. Get over it. Things are changing in Buffalo for the better and I prefer to stay positive about the things that were done correctly and those that are planned to come. This post did nothing but engender a lot of anger and even seeming hostility between writers. I think I'll take a break. I'm in too much of a good mood to read this stuff or look at your little red "X" marks. Save it for the other members of the BR mutual admiration society who think you did a good job.

let me preface what this with this; and that is that i want the hotel on elmwood so bad that the prospect of the project being set back or tabled can keep me up nights if i let it. i say build it! i donit care how high, heck--i donit care if they build the friggini cn tower! my home would be certainly impacted then, but i want to see my city grow.

but why are we building in a part of the city that is healthy and growing on itis own when there is obviously so much of buffalo that needs this kind of new development?

why not put the hotel on one of those shaded areas and have people travel through buffalo on our public transportation to the galleries and architectural treasures, passing through areas like the elmwood village and north buffalo and main street on their way, finding a place to stop for lunch and shopping. why not bring the rest of the city into this? toronto, new york city, paris, rome, i canit think of a city where you donit have to find your way around to see everything.

why are we trying to cram a long skinny shiny new upwardly mobile neighborhood into a sliver of a rail bed property in the already healthy neighborhood of north buffalo? why arenit these builders making proposals in the shaded areas?

heck, why not put bpac downtown in a shaded area? the buff state campus could have a downtown campus - how about a downtown fine arts department.

when we are hoping to be courted by downtown developers, why then are we not directing these energies towards the areas that need it? are there not any incentives in place to encourage these builders to do what buffalo needs where buffalo needs it?

are we going to become the new buffalo that is the elmwood village and north buffalo with the rest being an area that ewell, we just donit go therei?

all of these proposed projects are perfect for anywhere in buffalo. i think that the right kind of development is an asset, and there is room for improvement everywhere. i also love that my neighborhood provides me with everything i need. i can spend weeks sometimes without ever leaving the elmwood village, but sometimes i wish there were more reason to do so...

woops, aside from that stumbly first sentence, which i will blame on incautious cut-n-paste practices, my idea is still there.

Great post! I'm glad that it makes the bmen in buffalo angry.

Bman,

As I noted in the first paragraph...if you did not find a problem with the fact that so much of downtown was eliminated you should move on to the next story...and I would further note that if you do not like what BRO has to say move on to the next blog or as figmo pointed out...start your own. It is just like TV...change the channel.

As for any negativity in my post it is directed at the past deeds. I noted that Buffalo's growth is currently being generated by historic preservation rather than from demolition with the intent to show that demolition is short sighted unless carefully balanced with the best new development. I am not sure why that offends you. Your point is unclear.

Back to Steel's headline: we don't wan't to save everything, just everything that's left. This has always been my favorite rejoinder to the "can't save everything" bunch.

It's about time we obstructionists starting pointing out that we can't *demolish* everything. If demolition was such a great cure for urban ills, then Buffalo would have the most vibrant downtown in America.

Surface parking lots generate lots of cash, much more than fixed tenants with documented money transactions. The maintenance of surface parking lots is a fraction of that of structures. The saving in utility costs and not to mention, the reduced taxes is why buildings are being disposed of. Besides there is no real measurement of the loss in tax revenue, and possible economic impact anyway, is there?

M@: Please name one item that Robert Moses had an inpact upon within the City limits of Buffalo.

response to sally, currently the hot issue is the niagara section toll booths, that is, if he had a hand in the design of this wonderful (niagara section along the water edge) obstruction to access of our potentially best attribute.

But Robert Moses was not part of the State government during the planning or construction phases of the 190. At that time he was strictly a part of the NY City government and not the state

whoa.. the city fathers of Buffalo should've left Buffalo the way it was..like inthe 1960's aerial photo above..Buffalo then had so much character. The city could've restored/ renovated all the run down areas around the periphery of downtown at a fraction of the cost. Instead, the staus quo was achieved. Many American cities achieved this type of city planning..Some more progressive cities chose not to destroy everything downtown and now the dwellers of those cities are greatful today.Hopefully,many unused character buildings downtown can be rehabbed as condominums or something.. Always hopeful