Buffalo Rising Online

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BTW, I think that the picture is a Garden Tiger Moth, not a butterfly. This is the moth stage of the 'wooly bear' caterpillars that we see slinking across the ground around this time of the year.

I like the new cafes along Main Street, some excellent food offered, but I wish that they would stay open for the dinner hour. City Grille is fine, but I get sick of the same overpriced food. Chop Chop or Globe would be a welcome stop after 7:00 PM. We need to keep Main Street open after business hours if we expect people to visit. The street is limited to bars and expensive restaurants, or the combination of each, and nothing is open on a Saturday. Keep in mind that there are many weekly travelers who stay at the Hyatt or Comfort Inn, this is their impression of downtown. Very few business travelers that work at HSBC, Delaware North, M&T, Key, Bank of America, or any other downtown company, venture off Main street or Chippewa. It is time to rethink the image of Main Street to include the after 6:00 crowd. Oh, and a few police on the beat would be nice.

Al-alo - I am a potential city dweller who has chosen to live in Clarence instead of Buffalo. I moved here from the sprawling metropolis of Washington DC about 3 years ago. The primary reason for the move was a better job, improved quality of life, lower cost of living, and a local network of family and friends. My wife and I looked in the area roughly bordered by Main, Hertel, Colvin/Parkside, and Humboldt Parkway; and the area along Nottingham near Delaware Park. We also considered the streets stemming from Chapin and Bidwell parkways. We liked the waterfront condos, but they were smaller than our townhouse in VA, and were tight for two adults and two small children. There was also a lack of playgrounds and parks in the immediate vicinity of the condos, so these were a non-starter for us. Our next choice was Snyder, followed by Williamsville and then Clarence. Our Realtor definitely steered us away from Buffalo, giving us horror stories about the schools and taxes to consider on our trips between NY and VA. The schools were the deal breaker for us, even if we were guaranteed Olmsted and City Honors, the city still wouldn't beat out the quality and quantity of services that our children would receive in the suburbs. Couple this with lower crime, better community services, parks, the feel of the neighborhoods, sidewalks and neighborhood parks, grocery stores that are only a couple blocks away, and the choice was clear for us.

I would love to move to the city, in fact we tend to gravitate to the city every chance we get. It is a great place to visit, and we would like to live there, but with all the services offered in the suburbs we get the feeling that our choice is the difference between a 2 star and a 4 star hotel for the same price. The move from Virginia was a positive change in lifestyle and pace of life. The move to the suburbs made it even better. Our kids enjoy community education programs sponsored by the Williamsville Schools and Amherst Recreation department, we enjoy the neighborhood, and we head to the city for dinner, theater, or to see friends a few times a week depending on how often we want a babysitter. We are still on the fence about our decision though, and would truly prefer urban living, and someday we may make that move.

What would it take to make that move? We would need to see a serious change in the quality of the Buffalo Schools, or a voucher program that would apply all of our public school tax to the price of private education. We would need to see a major reduction in crime as well. I find the comparison of crime rates in Buffalo to Amherst to be appalling, the rate drops significantly in just a couple of blocks from the city line. The Amherst Police drive down our street regularly, and in the summer they patrol the neighborhood parks on bikes at dusk. I do not see that same level of involvement from the Buffalo Police, and I believe that this contributes to the increased crime rate. Finally, the level of services offered to Buffalo residents needs to improve. My wife and I are well off, earning just under $200,000 combined each year. The services in the suburbs are offered regardless of financial need, while it seems that city services are only offered to the poor. There is a disproportionate number of community services that are subsidized for the poor or underprivileged in Buffalo. My perspective is that if the wealthy want a swimming program, or after school program, then they will have to pay for it out of pocket from a private organization, while the poor will receive the same type of services for free, if they are offered at all. The Williamsville community education programs run all year at a fixed rate, with a sliding scale offered to those who are truly in need. There are still private organizations available, but these offer more specialized or advanced services. Like I said, it is the difference between a 2 star and 4 star hotel for the same price. Make city living palatable for the wealthy adults with children, and we will move back in a heartbeat. Unfortunately for Buffalo, we will continue to live in the suburbs until this time comes.

I am sorry for the lengthy post!

Umwelt, I think quite a few parents come to a similar conclusion as you. Without giving up too much personal information, do you or your wife commute any length to work? Are you with the same employer that you were with in Washington?

Benfranklin - I left my previous employer to take the job in Buffalo. It took a little while to find and land the right job but it was time well spent. My wife works in Amherst, about 10 minutes from where we live. I work downtown, about 20 minutes by car, 25 minutes by metro.

Some of public schools in the city can be safer and better than some of the suburban schools. Depends on which district you live in. When I went to THS in the late 90's our high school had daily fights, a gang problem, and teachers knocked out (either trying to break up a fight or just attacked), BUT of course, being in a small district, many of these incidents never made it to the media as it would if it were in a City School. I would love to live downtown, but many of the restaurants and shops do need to be open on the weekends. For instance, the Main Place Mall...Closes at 5:30 and Closed all day Sunday. People are finally living a block away and others visit, or there on business and can't even get to the only city mall or the restaurants that dot Main Street, how sad. ..That's my only complaint.

I have a good friend that used to live in Williamsville / Cheektowaga / Tonawanda for his whole life. When he finished college away and came back home to get a job and settle him and his family decided on north Buffalo over the suburbs for some of the reasons that wizardofza talked about. He is very republican in the way that he makes decisions. It always comes down to money for him and even though he fully planned on moving to the suburbs they ended up realizing that the size and quality of home coupled with the lower property taxes of the city were a win win for him.

Children were not a part of the issue but he figured if one day they did happen then St Marks was just down the street and the money he saved for years on taxes could go to their tuition. I have a tendency to think that your realter was maybe not intentionally trying to lie but certainly exaggerated many claims. Crime in the cover overall is surely higher than Amherst but really is dependent on the neighborhood you reside in. Homes wouldn't sell for hundred of thousands of dollars in many areas of the city if Crime was as rampant as people claim.

So in their story him and his family (mother, sister, spouse, and himself) bought into a big double in NB.

The Buffalo schools suck and it is everyone's fault! The teachers, the parents, the students, the unions, the superintendant, the mayor, the state, everyone! We all share the blame for letting a critical service decline to the point of failure. School vouchers are a good idea for attracting new families but they don't address the underlying issues with the school system. I don't disagree with Simcoe that there are dedicated teachers in the district, but they are individuals in a dysfunctional collective structure. They are too consumed with benefit, pay, safety, and other issues to focus on teaching children.

Does anyone know if there is are affirmative action, diversity, or eeoc considerations for the placement of students in the more functional schools? Are all students considered on par, or are race and gender considered as part of the placement process?

Simcoe - You have made your feelings about Buffalo Teachers well known on at least three other threads in the past few months. You have stated in several threads that the teacher's suffer from a bad and often unjustified perception. Let's go back and look at some of those threads, where salaries for many of the Buffalo workers have been posted by many people. The following is from ex-cop in the almost_lost_her_again thread:

Actually, Buffalo teachers are the highest paid in the area, Buffalo teacher salaries average $52,248, with a high salary of $89,929 (2005 data). Compare that to NYC Public School salaries (unadjusted) which are $59,983 a year average and a high of $102,201 per year. NYC is a Tier 1 MSA, Buffalo is Tier 3. Compare this to Amherst Central Schools, with an average salary of $46,399 (2005) and a high of around $81,000. Once again, the tail is wagging the dog in the city. Phil Rumore doesn't comapre Buffalo Teacher's salaries to other school districts, he compares them to the already inflated salaries of the BPD and BFD.

I refer to this thread often, because the facts and figures are substantiated. Maybe ex-cop could pull out some stats on the retention rate of Buffalo teachers vs. suburban teachers to see if they aare indeed leaving or staying. From personal experience, I know a handful of exBPS staff who have left the City for suburban or private schools.

Let's agree to refer to the many threads that already debate the differences between Buffalo and Suburban schools, police, fire, etc. They are plentiful and easily accessed from the google search on this page. Type in "Teacher's salaries" and you will get quite a few hits to review.

Simcoe - You have made your feelings about Buffalo Teachers well known on at least three other threads in the past few months. You have stated in several threads that the teacher's suffer from a bad and often unjustified perception. Let's go back and look at some of those threads, where salaries for many of the Buffalo workers have been posted by many people. The following is from ex-cop in the almost_lost_her_again thread:

Actually, Buffalo teachers are the highest paid in the area, Buffalo teacher salaries average $52,248, with a high salary of $89,929 (2005 data). Compare that to NYC Public School salaries (unadjusted) which are $59,983 a year average and a high of $102,201 per year. NYC is a Tier 1 MSA, Buffalo is Tier 3. Compare this to Amherst Central Schools, with an average salary of $46,399 (2005) and a high of around $81,000. Once again, the tail is wagging the dog in the city. Phil Rumore doesn't comapre Buffalo Teacher's salaries to other school districts, he compares them to the already inflated salaries of the BPD and BFD.

I refer to this thread often, because the facts and figures are substantiated. Maybe ex-cop could pull out some stats on the retention rate of Buffalo teachers vs. suburban teachers to see if they aare indeed leaving or staying. From personal experience, I know a handful of exBPS staff who have left the City for suburban or private schools.

Let's agree to refer to the many threads that already debate the differences between Buffalo and Suburban schools, police, fire, etc. They are plentiful and easily accessed from the google search on this page. Type in "Teacher's salaries" and you will get quite a few hits to review.

Now I'm curious. Let's just say that you live in the district for Olmsted 64, your kid gets in because you're in the district, and they're not part of the "Gifted and Talented" program. Do they have to re-apply for a different school when they reach 5th grade, or are they allowed to continue onto Olmsted 56 at Kesington?

Another question: Is the district for Olmsted 56 at Kensington based on the area around the old School 56 on West Delavan, or the area around Kensington High School?

Third question: Is Olmsted allowing fewer students in overall than it did in the past? Olmsted used to be made up of 3 buildings. School 64 contained Pre-K through 2nd. Now it contains Pre-K through 4th. So unless they're packing 'em in, it would seem that there would be fewer students in each grade.

I guess I should be asking these questions to the Buffalo Public Schools, but since I don't have kids and don't want any, I'm not going to. But if you're going to buy a house across the street from School 64 so your kids will get in, these are things to think about.

Does anyone want to argue that Buffalo Schools aren't problematic and impeding the growth of Buffalo? It sounds to me like the schools are a major concern for residents and that the schools that are on par with the suburbs are not available. At least one of the charter schools is working, but some of the others are struggling. What is the solution?

who you calling stupids! none of the cityyou listed have baseball team could that be the probelm! I wouls say to that the techers are lazy and shold be paid what baby sisters make. All they do is complain about the monies but they got 6 months off every year. Its crazy

reflip - I don't think grad rates are effective for school quality comparison among cities in different states. Standards can very widely. Within NY State, if comparing Regents grad rates of cities might be meaningful. I wonder what's Buffalo's Regents grad rate compared to Roch, Syracuse, Albany, Yonkers, etc., or even to NYC boroughs. Maybe none are good, but I don't know.

Regarding solutions, vouchers would be best but aren't going to happen. If charters are facing as much opposition as they are here from unions and some union-backed politicians, then there's no way vouchers will happen.

Also difficult politically, but not as impossible. would be to greatly raise the number of allowed charters along with more flexibilty of letting them stay open when their results aren't worse than non-charters. Last week's Artvoice discussed an east side charter (Sankofa) to be shut down by the NYS Ed Dept soon, even though their results are improving and not worse than the non-charters run by the BPS/BTF:

http://artvoice.com/issues/v7n14/saving_sankofa

People shouldn't feel at all guilty for moving if they think that's what's best. People voting with their feet that way might also eventually put pressure on politicians to increase the number of charters they allow in the city, or maybe to have a voucher system eventually but that's a very long way off.

Bini - If I'm not mistaken, it's not possible right now for anyone to 'open a new charter' as you suggest be considered for Lafayette. I think the state govt enforces a strict statewide limit on the maximum number of them.

reflip hits a point.

We try to confine all the poor and underprivaledged to one school district and then blow a lot of hot air about how that district is costing so much money for the poor results that it is getting. Is it just magic that a majority of older cities with suburbs show the same results?

Swap districts for the entire Buffalo School Board and say Clarance. Are you telling me you honestly believe that the two districts would face any different fates? Over the years we take a crap in one district, walk away from it and then act like our crap doesn't stink.

The suburbs got the golden egg when the courts decided that school desegregation magically ended at the city line. And the city is stuck because it is one whole district. We forced Buffalo's fate to become the district where those who could afford a better class segregated district would move out of leaving an ever increasing disproportionate concentration of disadvantaged kids to try to conrtol and educate being bussed into every school throughout it.

This, like a lot of other issues, are regional and require regional solutions. Until we acknowledge this and act on it the current conditions will perpetuate. Also, it will not stop at the city line. I always hoped that this would be the turning point in getting out act together, but as the disinvestment wave moves outward crossing the city line through Cleve-Hill, Maryvaille, Sloan districts, we can just start crapping on them too, acting like we don't know what happened, while we continue to pick up and run outward. This in an indivdual effort for sue. And involves each and every resident of Erie County. From those that set the precedent of picking up and running to those that subseqquently pick up an follow until nothing is left but empty feilds all while suppressing any developments in working together and healling the region as a whole.

We can keep playing around seeing which rats can get the highest up on the skinking ship, but as we look around us we will see that the ship is still sinking.

reflip - 39% and 50% are both bad, but that's a pretty wide difference if that's what it is and if it's comparing the exact same thing. Might be informative to see some breakdown of objective data for urban districts across NYS and within NYC.

Bini - You're right, NYS raised it from 100 to 200 and yes that should allow some new charters in Buffalo. But 200 is a pretty small number for the whole state considering there's so many on lottery waiting lists for existing charters as someone mentioned for Tapestry. Of the 100 new charters being allowed, 50 will be in NYC and another 50 spread elsewhere across the rest of the state - divided among Upstate, downstate burbs, Long Island.

Spitzer and Bloomberg were asking for limit to go up to at least 250 schools (still a small number), but the State Assembly would go only up to 200 and added a restriction that any charter with over 250 students be required to hire unionized teachers - so that will prevent some charters from growing size if they want to have any policies different than what unions would agree with.

http://www2.nysun.com/article/51716

Bloomberg Attacks Opponents of Charter Schools By Sarah Garland April 3, 2007

With 50 new charter school slots to fill by next year, Mayor Bloomberg said the city is "hitting the ground running" after years of waiting for the statewide cap on the schools to be lifted.

After a litany of praise for the finalized state budget, which will raise the statewide cap to 200 from 100 and add millions of dollars to city education coffers this year, the mayor switched to the attack against charter school opponents who worked to delay the cap lift.

In response to a question about a new requirement that charter schools hire unionized teachers if enrollment reaches 250 within two years, he said: "It is a disgrace that when you have such demand that there's anybody, at any level of government, who's trying to limit parents' options, particularly given the success of most charter schools."

The mayor also promised to publicly condemn each individual lawmaker at the state and local level who had tried to limit charter schools, which are funded with public money but operate largely outside the education bureaucracy. "For reasons nonpedagogical, people are trying to limit parents' choices," he said, "These are the same people who stand up repeatedly and say, 'I'm for parents; I'm to help protect my constituents.' … If they're not standing up for parents, I'm just going to point it out to everybody."

The increase in the cap comes as some charter school administrators are reporting a growing gap between a large number of applicants and a limited availability of seats this spring. ...