Buffalo Rising Online

Let's see, cheap gossip or deep analysis?

I voted for the WBFO Coffee Mug that looks like the Partridge Family with the Buffalo out of the egg.

ECB, are you hard up for literature. This post doesn't tell us anything that we don't already know....

Grant Street is a sh!t hole - always was, always will be.

Condo Tower, we have beaten this subject.

Winter Maket, how do you plan to get the news out? Are you serious?

What is it with this fluff - please take time out of your day to put your heart in to your work....

Out of everything I just read, the most intriguing part has to be the investment in Grant Street. As I'm sure everyone knows, a stroll down it isn't going to end up a walk down memory lane but rather an all out sprint for your life! The last time I was there was to get beer at some store I'd heard about toward the southern end of the street; absolute pandemonium. The girl working the checkout proceeded to have a shouting argument with her boyfriend across the counter while checking me out. I was convinced that the boyfriend left the store to go and retrieve either a gun to shoot her or knife to stab her.

I'd say the area around Buff State is rather tame as far as Grant Street goes so they may have a chance, around 40%, but as you progress further down toward Guercios I believe any type of investment would be a financial black hole; zero potential for any return on investment.

I moved one part of a business I owned to Grant Street. During the three years I was there, I watched the older, good customers, pass away. Stepped around prostitutes to get in the front door. Dealt with the organized group of men that wanted to wash my windows (I'm assuming not paying them lead to the windows being broken). It was a nightmare.

Well, we have found out that Grant Street is a shit hole and by some accounts ALWAYS has been. I think in light of this new news presented by BRO's most prolific commenters we should refrain from doing ANYTHING to improve the situation on Grant. We should not highlight the possibilities for improvement or any (small though they be ) efforts to improve this area. We should allow it to be a sinkhole and never do anything to reverse the decline.

In general according to the usual characters Buffalo sucks and is not even worthy of discussion let alone positive action.

Steel, you are putting words in to peoples mouths....as usual. This is not Michigan Avenue.

If we discuss improving Grant St., then we would be making the very large assumption that Main St. and Elmwood Ave are safe and vibrant......they are not.

I know you don't live here, but the last time I checked, Buffalo has a long way to go before we can worry about Grant St. For now, it is at the bottom of the list.....and the people who live here seem to agree.

Steel, is it your 'feeling' that Grant is as viable a business location as Elmwood, Hertel, Allentown or any other number of neighborhoods? I have real ( money invested, with money to lose ) experience in many of these neighborhoods. Some of these investments have performed well, others have not. I'd think this site would be about sharing some of those experiences, so that others may not make the same mistake.

I've made investments in this city that I know will not perform as well as some alternatives (outside the city). To the outside world, that makes me a bad investor. To me, it's part of being from Buffalo, and hoping that the city improves to the point that it's a viable alternative for my childeren when it comes time for them to find a job. Sorry if my post doesn't fit with those you'd like to read.... but if someone has money to put in the city, I'd prefer to see them get a better return. Successful investments in other parts of the city may one day cause some kind of spillover on Grant, but that time, in my opinion, is not now.

Gust

I understand exactly what you are saying. Buffalo sucks so much that there is no use doing anything. I will be eternally grateful to you, gaustad and nonono and the like who have finally shown me the light. Your superior intellect will be valuable in pointing Buffalo down the same path it has followed for the last 40 years.

Ben,

No I have never said Grant is Elmwood or Hertel. It is a dense business strip in a dense neighborhood and though it is a poor neighborhood these people do have money to spend. When I was young my mother often shopped on Grant for various itemsOther cities have been able to make business strips like this work. What I would like to see and what I think Newell is calling for is a city bureaucracy and populace that willing to back up the investors such as yourself with actions that help you succeed and eventually attract more investors.

When the city allows crime to concentrate, when the city allows derelict buildings to decline year after year, When the city does not keep up basic infrastructure we invite a climate that is poisonous to investors. The city should be standing next to you as an invester making sure you have everything you need. Currently they are instead swinging a bat at you head. It sounds to me like the usual characters think it needs to stay that way.

Steel, here we go again. Your "MO" is to put words into people's mouths in order to get your point across.

It makes you look less intelligent than you already are. Moreover, as some one disagrees with you or tells you to stop being an arm chair Buffalonian from Chicago.....the post will mysteriously disappear. Your tactics are childish, and most people agree, based on what I read here.

Having said that, if I thought there was no use in doing anything in Buffalo, I would not have just suggested that we first clean up Main St and Elmwood Ave before Grant St.

Just curious, if you love Buffalo so much and are dedicated to the cause, why don't you move home and open a business? I have. We could probably use your energy more here than in Chicago!

Steel, why bother even responding to people whose cynicism reeks even online? They're not worth it, and it only forces the rest of us to wade through their bile. Don't argue argue with the champions of crass--you're above them.

But why NOT focus more efforts on Grant? The city as Steel said, should be putting full force into this street and other neighborhoods around it, because doing so would allow the stability of Elmwood to spread farther west. By letting grant sit there while we cross the t's and dot the i's everywhere else it only means that it is going to continue to breed problems that spill into Elmwood etc.

If we really want to finish the Elmwood experiment then we need to focus on Grant. Just like if we really want Main Street to come back, we don't need cars, we need to focus on the adjacent streets and neighborhoods.

Gaust,

Your MO is to complain about pretty much every BRO story. The basic point of most of your comments seems to center on the superiority of you intellect and the utter worthlessness of Buffalo. At least that is what I am getting out of it. We get it Buffalo sucks and you think on a Borg like level.

I don't put words in people's mouths and I don't delete comments. When comments are deleted by BRO it is when when they are off topic per the site's policy. From what I have seen (at least recently) the deletions have been warranted and quite conservative.

I think Buffalo is a great and under appreciated place with tremendous potential. That is why my motivation. I think Elmwood can only be improved by improving places like Grant street. Waiting around is no longer a valic course of action in WNY. That has been tried for 40 years

Steel, read my last ten posts or do I have to copy and paste them for you like I did the last time you started to spew. All comments were constructive in discussing ways to better our city; you and I are getting nowwhere again and now I have to get back to work, but let me leave you with one question that I am certain you will not answer:

"Why don't you move home if you are this motivated to make things better?"

Food for thought, the fact that you live in Chicago completely ruins your credibility on this site. I have people email me their deleted comments addressing your problem because they are so adamant to demonstrate that they are being forced to keep quiet by you. Deny it all you want.

Altough I realize that you only answer my questions with more senseless attacks, it would be nice to know that truth. What is your deal?

Please don't delete this post!

At the risk of adding to the unraveling of this thread.... some of us think Buffalo is a combination of the people and businesses that make it up. Others refer to the city as something that sounds eerily similar to Moscow c. 1960. What is the mythical enterprise that should "put full force onto this street (Grant)"? The city should do what it can to make an area safe, after that, it shoud get out of the way and let market forces take over.

Gaust,

Make up all the email stories you like. I have not deleted your posts and if they were deleted I am sure it was with good cause. As far as cutting and pasting , let me save you the time.

This is your quote from above: "Grant Street is a sh!t hole - always was, always will be."

Sounds to me like you believe that Grant Street was always worthless and always will be. That is what YOU said. You said Grant Street will ALWAYS be a "shit hole" , "always". You have said pretty much the same thing about the entire city. You do not believe that there is anything that can be done to save the city and you like to come on here to disparage anyone who thinks otherwise. I know that those who believe in Buffalo are not as cool as you but then again Bill Gates was never considered one of the cool kids either.

How about the 9 posts before that genius? And you still haven't answered my questions becuase you are too cowardly to live in Buffalo. You are only embarassing yourself further at this point.

My posts were not deleted, comments from other readers were deleted supporting the fact that you are have no credibility becuase you live in Chicago. You spend your day arguing with people in Buffalo that are actually "doing it."

Chicago, is a wonderful city. Why don't you go outstide and find somthing to do?

[off topic]

Buffalo Rising is too positive. It borders on delusional. What we need is honest and accurate analysis followed by informed and precise action. When this BRO/wbfo collaboration began, I thought it was a very good idea. Mostly because I trusted WBFO. I thought that the forum would be a place where informed and opposing viewpoints would pick apart the issues with attention to detail. I thought that maybe WBFO would apply an NPR-like standard to local stuff. Intead we get the same old sloppy talking points now on the radio. STEEL seems to think that negativity is at the root of the problem but I think it is more likely sloppy civic action and a refusal to honestly address our circumstances.

You can try to make it about me but that is not what the story is about. I posted your own words and now you are backtracking. claim your own words and stop making the argument about my place of residence and off topic comments that were deleted by BRO.

Try discussing the topic at hand rather than bringing in phony unconnected subject matter

Steel, the people on this site have valid, independent points of view. Stop contradicting yourself.

Gaustad ,

I cut and pasted your own words and you refuse to take ownership of them.

Steel, I take ownership! I also take ownership for all the of the constructive and positive remarks I have made as well.

Tell me, "Why do you live in Chicago again?"

Wonder what the percentage of commenters/readers of BRO live out of town. Does it really matter where one lives? Gaustad's "GOTCHA" is pathetic. Everyone here has a stake and interest otherwise they wouldn't bother checking in to BRO.

Platt4 - my goal is not to play "gotcha" -

How many people who visit this site from out of town work for BRO, write for BRO, and are able to inlfuence readers on BRO by having the authority to edit and delete others posts that do not coincide with their own views?

But Davvid,

What is honest about someone saying that Grant Street was and always will be "a shithole"? (that's an insult to a few generations of citizens) Or that there's "no money in this town" (I'll show you where to find it)? Or the dreary complaining about how bad life in Buffalo is when in fact life can be extremely fine in Buffalo? People who traffic in that kind of thinking haven't a faintly honest idea of what Buffalo was, is, or could be. BRO is not a news site and it's not the Atlantic Monthly; some of the articles are weak here and some are more substantive and objective.

But to me, the effect of the sarcastic cynics who post here seems much more corrosive than the ebullient Buffalo boosters. I think I have a reasonably sober view of life in Buffalo and can compare it to life in other places I've lived. In terms of visual ambiance, musical and literary culture, visual arts and recreation, and warmth of charcter, Buffalo is formidable for a city its size and recent history.

So, when people try to melt the pessimism about economic initiatives iin marginal neighborhoods, I think the most constructive thing we can do is forbear, wish them well, and stop the silly taunting of people like Steel, whose work on behalf of Buffalo from outside the area seems much more valuable than the jeers of locals who don't even fully comprehend their own city.

And Eric and I don't even agree on several issues!

Gusatad,

Why keep bringing up comment deletion when I have already stated that I do not delete comments on BRO. BRO started a thread on that subject. Why don't you go over there to comment. Instead of bringing up nonsense about where I live or what off topic comments were deleted why don't you talk about this subject here.

You said that Grant street was always a shit hole. Is this true? From the looks of the architecture on the street I would have thought it was quite prosperous at one time

You said that Grant Street will always be a shit hole. Does that mean that absolutely nothing can be done to change its current situation?

You said that Elmwood and Main need attention before Grant. This may be a topic for good and reasonable conversation. I suggest that the way for Elmwood to meet its full potential is to fix Grant Street first. What do you have to say to that?

"You said that Grant street was always a shit hole. Is this true? From the looks of the architecture on the street I would have thought it was quite prosperous at one time"

Chicago Steel, you sound like a broken record. "From the looks of Grant St." -

Where are you looking from? Chicago? can you see Grant St from Chicago? When is the last time you are on Grant St.?

You "stated" that you do not delete comments. Am I suppose to believe you, because that is what you "stated?"

The point being is that becuae of your position at BRO, you have a strong voice on topics that simply can not be in touch with from a different city. You can take that any way you want. It is a fact.

Goustad

YOU stated that Grant was always a shit hole. Was it? From the looks of the architecture I would say that AT ONE TIME it was quite prosperous. Do you want to talk about the subject at hand or am I wasting my time?

You said that there is nothing that can be done about Grant because it will Always be a shit hole. Is this really true?

Since you are in Buffalo can you elaborate on your comments?

I've seen too many off-topic, nasty and incoherent comments - if anything, the powers that be aren't deleting enough!

As a matter of fact I can Chi STEEL. I recently owned a piece of property around Grant. would you like the address? Perhaps you can use your binolculars to see it from Chicago.... jk

Anyway, I sunk a fair amount of money rehabbing it and winded up losing my ass. I sold the property for a loss and have never looked back.

I can tell you first hand that this is not a good place for an investment. As discussed, there are other areas in town that are safer investments., ie. Main St and Elmwood Village.

http://www.chicagotraveler.com/things-to-do.htm

STEEL, I have enjoyed talking to you today. sincerely, it has been true entertainment on this cold Feb day.

Gaust

You said that Grant ALWAYS has been a shit hole. We ALL know about its recent and current state! can you enlighten us a bit more about is past into infinity? You said there is no solution to its problems and that it will always be a shit hole. I disagree. I think it can be at least stabilized. I think that this could be achieved if the city wanted it to happen. Newel suggests that owners be held responsible for the condition of their buildings. I suggest that the city make crime and vagrancy in the area a priority.

What do you think? What needs to be done to improve this area? Is it really true that nothing will work. Buffalo really is in deep if that is the case.

A couple months ago BR interviewed a long time business owner in the Grant St area. It didn't get many comments back then but he made a lot of good common sense points, touching on history of Grant/Ferry and explaining why he thinks government-based rescue ideas won't work.

http://www.buffalorising.com/story/gary_rotundos_neighborhood

Idea for ECB and QE - Why not invite Mr. Rotundo to join the next BR show at WBFO and continue the Grant St discussion with his perspectives included in the mix?

http://www.buffalorising.com/story/gary_rotundos_neighborhood

Steel, you are asking what can be done to improve this entire city. My suggestion is to wire an old building with Fiber-

Demonstrate our cheap connection costs, tax abatements, and empire zone reimbursements. Then hire a marketing team to solicit the idea/building to Silicon Valley and hopefully entice a business like Cisco Systems to put a call center right in downtown Buffalo.

We can add some good paying jobs and people. Some of these people will most certainly spill over into neighborhods like Grant st.

When there are jobs and population, you will see a change and not before. What would you do from Chicago to turn this neighborhod around?

Would you do to help the general area. Holding pror owners is not enoguh and will never work.

Yea wow Cisco. That would be great but how about in the mean time something realistic for Grant.

Why not:

1. Create a property tax free zone along Grant street to attract investment. 2. Increased police activity along the street including proactive involvement with businesses and local residents to pinpoint crime and nuisance hot spots so they can be eliminated 3. Put a moratorium on new subsidized housing to reduce the concentration of poverty in the area. 4. Target problem buildings for purchase by the city and create a strong marketing and incentive campaign get them into the hands of developers with the ability to manage them properly. 5. Target low interest loans and grants to new and existing businesses on the street. 6. Encourage and support the development of block clubs and business groups in the area, 7. Encourage the organization of a summer festival for the street. 8. Invest in the urban infrastructure on the street 9. Create tax incentives to encourage an increase in owner occupancy in on nearby streets.

I believe that I heard the 1 mile wide swath of city centered on Grant from Ferry to Buff State has a population of 34,000 people. This is not a wealthy neighborhood but if you give that number of people an attractive product they will shop on Grant.

Great points Steel, your brain power would be better utilized in Buffalo as you seen so passionate about our city. However, I still believe most of your points are better suited for Main St. downtown, which was my point from the get go.

Imagine how Main St. appears to an outsider traveling to Buffalo. Main St desperately needs a tax free zone, in addition to the 8 other points you have made.

PS - my idea is very realistic; shipping call centers off to Buffalo with cheap labor and connection costs is far better than losing jobs to India.

Unfortunately, I believe our politicians may lack the foresight and sophistication to devlop a project like this.