Buffalo Rising Online

Looks good. Not EVERYONE wants a rehabed historical house. Some people want new builds. I like old houses and even live one and working on it.

Good for the project if they can get them sold.

We need new houses in the city....I think the lower west side should be bull dozed and made way for more expensive houses...people want to live in the city, but not everyone wants to buy a money pit!

Out with the old and in with the new

The money it took to build these would have been better spent rehabbing existing homes that would have been essentially new when finished. That preserves the unique characteristics of our older neighborhoods and gives people the new homes they supposedly want.

It would also add some needed stability to neighborhoods on the brink of turnaround like the Lower West Side and the streets just east of Main. If successful the public investment would spur private investment. As it stands these new neighborhoods just become islands in a sea of blight.

This is essentially faux-urban, cutsey-fied suburban subdivisions. Similar neighborhoods in St. Louis, built in the last few years, are already becoming slums nearly as bad as what they replaced. Owners that bought at market rates can't sell for close to what they paid. I suspect the same is/will be true in Buffalo.

I give the B- on this project. while detached and cul-de-sac like, they do at least attempt to add in some urban design to the site. I also agree with both the need for some new housing and the need for more money for renovating existing homes. I would prefer to see new homes infilled into struggling edge communities than the whole sale bulldoze of blocks for these larger projects. Imagine Imagine these homes, new just west of Richmond, how much stability it might bring to whole streets instead of one block.

We shall see how this plays out.

The forms and density are rather pleasing and respectful of an older city. I just hope the finish materials, and thus, the end product, won't disappoint.

Who is the builder and who is the realtor?

Sally, my dear,

Truly, there was no sarcasm motivating nor intended in my slim remarks. We can still build great cities. If we choose to.

Am I disappointed by what I see? Every day of my life.

I still dont know why the city didnt build low income highrise apartment complexes? Property tax is lower, space is smaller, and rooms could be sold for 1/2 or 1/3 of what these cost. Heck, even make them coop and require everyone to help out with the planting and maintence throughout the year.

Remember, it's better to teach a man to fish...

I'm a believer that the city needs some new housing, but the issue is where you build them and at what cost, both to the buyer and to the public. These homes are on a site that needed extensive remediation and preparation. By the time that is done the true costs per home are over $400,000. The city hopes to sell them at between $180-200,000. I guess RonR's question about whether they are subsidized can be answered by that difference. Wanamaker talked about "a “test case” for market-rate homes, and providing new for-sale homes to meet the demand". These do neither. Deep subsidies do not equate to "market rate", and when there is true demand the buyer is willing to pay the full cost of development. This just wasn't the location to test Wanamaker's theories. Other 8-10 year old new builds in that neighborhood sell for anywhere from $30 to $100,000 less than these, and most are in the $70,000 range. Those are the real "market rates". I just hope that people who agree to pay the asking price on these don't find themselves owing a lot more than these homes are worth 10 years from now.

Vvlit, qaustad, here ya go..

http://www.city-buffalo.com/files/1_2_1/SPlanning/sycamore/sycamore_village_feature.PDF

Build high rise low income housing? Try the Perry Projects. What a success that is. Vertical ghettos were probably the single biggest failed social experiment of the 60'6. Neighborhoods were torn down erasing the social fabric that held them toghether. They were replaced by "projects" or "houses"; different names for high rise public assistance housing. They concentrated crime, poverty and despair into less space. Today they are coming down and are being replaced with mixed-density mixed-income housing. It seems to be working in Chicago though there are vocal opponents because units aren't being replaced 1 for 1.

Low density? These are pretty tight lots with garages at the rear of most structures off of a new alley. Pretty Urban to me.

Just west there are many new builds from the 80's and 90' in the Pratt area. This development makes a nice gateway into that area and onto DT which is 10 blocks away. Not all that far. Any bing "what's next door" really helps too. These houses are together which will hopefully go a ways to helping them hold value.

The recently demolished Buffalo Forge block right next door would be perfect for more of this type of alley based tight infill or conversly, a mixed use residential-commercial development similar to the one proposed at JEfferson and Best. Make buildings facing Broadway and Sycamore with parking hidden inbetween.

The blanket reference can apply to our area as a whole. Take one family from the core and place them at the edge. Expect one locality loses the tax base and struggles while the other gets it free while feeding off all the services the other areas still offer. Buffalo needs to save houses. But it also needs modern new builds to help fullfill that market. We see the success that smaller developments near The LaSalle station had. Unfortunately there is not a lot of open areas for these in the more established sections of the city. Getting the near east side going will be tougher and will require seeds through subsidies. But higher quality and an urban context will give it a leg up. Seeing a far reaching plan from this site along Broadway and Sycamore would even allow for more faith.

My mfg business is situated between william/broadway and pratt/jefferson, so about a block or so from this 'wonderful' project. First and foremost the price tag on these properties is a pipe dream, anyone who can afford to purchase a 180k-200k home, isn't going to move into this neighborhood. Anyone who has any general concept of the real estate market and can afford a 180k-200k home, is most certainly not going to be moving into this neighborhood and take that risky investment. I mean most Elmwood village houses were even selling for that much a few years ago, and I cant sell my NPARK/Hertel now investment property getting there any time in the next year or two. Regarding the area and neighborhood itself, at least from jefferson and west of, it has certainly started to get better over the years. 15-20 years ago we had hookers blowing 'johns' in our side parking lot, you could watch from our office windows. The crime has gotten better as well, about 10 years ago one of our factory workers who lived in the neighborhood as well was murdered right around the corner. As I type this perhaps the crime really hasnt gotten that much better, last summer a guy was found naked and dead next to our building at willian and spring st., then at the end of the summer another guy found shot dead in a small park/b-ball court at broadway and spring st. I do have to say that all the new homes the city has built around this area over the course of the last 10 years have actually held up rather nice, are appear to be properly cared for. I always see people outside landscaping and caring for their property, much to my suprise i'm sad to say, I was proven wrong on that one. As i look out my office window overlooking downtown, 2 blocks over someone took a vacant lot and built a nice looking approx. 1800sqft new build a couple years ago, and as we speak foundations are being dug and poured for 3 more houses. I'm not sure the developer or have any info on it, but I would guess these aren't going to be subsidized or going to cost anywhere near 200k, but I would bet that they are bought and well cared for. The long and the short of it is that 200k is crazy for these places, and instead of building these pockets of new developments surrounded my ghettos, how about started closest to the city and moving outwards in all directions. Urban planning isnt my business or anything, but that seems to make the most sense to me.

When will the new Stores and Entertainment venues be built for these new residences? I see nothing but houses and no businesses.

I wish I had the option to go back and edit my posts, my bad on the misspellings and so on, multitasking here.

Bini. Balanced and well thought out post.

Why did this have to look like a suburban gated community? That's all I have to say....I am sure you all can read into the rest.

NorPark - I agree an edit-preview feature for comments would be nice if BR could add it.

No need to apologize at all for your comment however. It was informative and good perspective from nearby the development. Consensus from you and some others seems to be the $200K price tag is a lot more than the market is likely to bear when there are done, even though thanks to taxpayer subsidies the $200K is already lower than what it would be elsewhere.

Maybe this is why City Hall should just not get itself involved in housing development. It's not as though they don't have enough else they should be concentrating on. Too bad Wanamaker left for his new job on the west coast instead of staying in town to see what happens with these after 5 or 10 years.

Offering help instead to people willing to rehab or improve older houses in on-edge neighborhoods like Hamlin Park might have been a better use. Some people might move out of those areas and into these, then walk away from these in a few years. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's hard to imagine many of these being purchased by people from elsewhere, so we know what that means for ripple effects of new vacancies.

"elsewhere" meaning from other cities.

Biniszkiewicz, Sorry, I haven't been on this is a couple of days, but you asked me the following questions: Do you have a source for the cost of remediation? Yes, records of the Buffalo control board indicate $1,167,000. Who paid? Whether it's state, fed or city it's the taxpayers. It sure isn't the buyers! Probably not the city either since they use money from every other goverment. Was there any successor corp to Buffalo Forge which was liable or did the city pay or the state? I don't think this was part of the Buffalo Forge site. That much bigger brown patch is next to this. Would this remediation have taken place regardless of the successive use of the land? Who knows, does the city tell anyone what they're thinking? Once the city grabbed the land they were stuck with it, but It could have been a nice park for about $5 million less. This is also an incomplete block. There is a small street off Jefferson that abuts it that has some really weak looking houses on it, and there is a blacktop area along the south side of it that isn't part of the project either. Is the remediation complete (this is not another Hickory Woods in the making)? Let's hope so!

I think it's telling that folks assume that there's no one who would pay this kind of money to live on the east side. But the eastside isn't some monolithic, impoverished thing -- there are solidly middle class people living there, as well. These sort of new builds might help them stick around a bit longer, which would be a win for the neighborhood.