Buffalo Rising Online

crank the PR machine to life and release this article to every newspaper & wire service's 'travel' section. (If chic-chic too-cool-for-school Toronto believes Buffalo is the place to be, then it must be true...)

We at the Central Terminal have made a concerted effort to court visitors from Toronto by putting them on our press distribution list. We've had thousands of Torontonians visit and join as members in the past 4 years.

Given the current influx of Canadian shoppers, it's very important to market our area and take advantage of this influx. Get them away from the Galleria and into our city!

Will there be enough hotel space in the city to accommodate the masses coming down from TO becasue of this article? What were they thinking? Nice PR but the day that more than a handful of Torontonians come to Bflo to go anywhere but the Galleria is the day a new Peace Bridge will be built.

That was a nice article and I think can go a long way to changing the attitude of people about our city.

Here's a genuinely bright article about Buffalo in Toronto, North America's most over-rated city, but still someone had to find a way to bring a whiff of snideness to it. If people in Toronto don't come to Buffalo for anything but the Galleria, as Zen proclaims, then that just goes to show how ignorant and uninformed they are.

EricOak, there are too many people who find it so much easier to criticize and hide behind their keyboards than get up off their asses and actually do something. I don't listen any more. For example, 5 years ago when the Terminal first reopened to the public, we were told (overwhelmingly) not to count on people coming to a decimated train station in a crime-ridden area. That was more than 80,000 visitors ago, and if the doors were open more often, that number would certainly be higher.

Over-rated? You must be joking. It's all a matter of opinion of course, but c'mon. Buffalo slays TO when it comes to ancient architecture, but really...that's abt it.

mmiller.....I couldn't agree more. The negativity will get people nowhere except unhappy and alone in their houses. They need to get out there and enjoy the things in Buffalo and stop trying to find things wrong and dwelling on them. Life is too short.

mmiller, that kind of civic pride is really quite enviable, in a rose colored way. I'm also heartened by your solid example of urban resurgence occurring at the terminally ill terminal. (so what is that? an average weekly attendance of 300 or so ppl?) I genuinely do not enjoy playing the role of negative spoiler, but some of you with your "get up off your ass" absurdities and overly-rosy great expectations...it is too sickenly sweet. This has been said too many times on here by others, but while there are some great things happening in the city it is still an extremely {edit} place and to be lulled into thinking that an article in the Star with some goof in a beret or a dilapidated relic in a diseased area are evidence of greatness, well, I honestly don't know what to tell you.

Zen, log off and get outside more. Go to Central Terminal and tell me that's not the coolest "relic" in the North East! (oh, and let's see your civic-resume. What are you doing for Buffalo?)

Zen, don't be so presumptuous as to think you know that I do what I do out of "civic pride". I am NOT proud of what has become of this city in my lifetime. But doing nothing is NOT an answer.

I defy ANYBODY to devote any time to volunteering at the Central Terminal and NOT be overwhelmed by the reality of the situation. Again I'll say, doing nothing is not an answer. I'd rather try and fail then not try at all.

This might be related to this article. Has anyone checked out the new SKYBUS airlines website, they will be flying out of the Niagara Falls airport which they title the "TORONTO/NIAGARA FALLS (Niagara Falls, NY)" route. There is only a cursory mention of Buffalo on their website, we take second billing to Toronto, ON as a destination from Niagara Falls. It is also interesting to me that the city of Niagara Falls is not listed as a major near-by city to the Niagara Falls International Airport, it only lists Toronto and Buffalo as major nearby cities. Someone from the CVB or another agency may want to reach out to their marketing department to add a Buffalo travel package for the low-cost travellers from Columbus and Greensboro.

Again, I hardly condone sitting back & tossing out criticisms and admire BRO's desire to accentuate the positive. However, so many items of interest here are extremely superficial. OK, you want to devote your life to promoting the terminal, great, but ultimately what does that do? I do not ascribe to the view that when added up each little endeavor will lead to some sort of teleological fulfilment. They are mere dents. The infrastructure of Buffalo (and to be fair many many other urban areas) is so rotten to the core that in some sense there's never going to be any kind of genuine turn around or renaissance. BackInBuffalo-You know what smartass, I spend countless hours working on Jimmy Griffin's Arts & Aesthetic Appreciation Task Force.

BRO is what it is. Call it superficial if you like, but it serves a purpose. It has encouraged more than a few people to pitch in and help. Buffalo is rotten and rotting in many ways, yes. You and I agree there. But it also has very real potential. What is the alternative to promoting redevelopment of the terminal and the city? Letting it rot until it implodes?

"OK, you want to devote your life to promoting the terminal, great, but ultimately what does that do?". What it does is it gives the terminal a second chance. You're not the first person to think I'm a dreamer, but trust me, I am not. I've talked to national and international developers who have expressed interest in the project. Maybe none of that will work out. Who knows? But, as I've said, 5 years ago no one thought it would be possible to achieve ANY of the things we've accomplished.

Zen - take an hour out of those of your 'countless' many devoted to Jimmy's AAA Task Force and ponder the irony about slamming something as significant as the Central Terminal.

zen ... "OK, you want to devote your life to promoting the terminal, great, but ultimately what does that do?" Of all of the idiotic comments written on this site, this one tops them all. With that attitude, why do anything?

I guess they had to meet up at the Galleria because that is the only place the Toronto guy knew how to get to.

zen,

Check this out http://www.buffalonews.com/185/story/247082.html And watch WNED on March 19 @ 8 p.m.

I think you may learn something from these 17 year old kids.

Well I actually ran into a couple of canadians who came over to go to City Creaters vet hospital on Delaware in the city. I was as surprised as anyone since you don't often see canadian plates outside of the highways and parking lots of the Galleria. I think steel wasn't saying there is something BAD about the situation they they go to the Galleria but that we could be reaping even more wealth from the current situation if we could capture more of those shoppers to local stores.

remember that only about 10 cents of ever dollar spent at a chain stays locally vs 70 cents for a smaller local store. Sure the sales tax is a nice bonus but we could be really injecting some serious dollars into the local economy if we could get them here for more than the Galleria.

City Creatures* damn spelling.. ! edit feature please !

I live in Niagara County and trust me, the Canadian plates are EVERYWHERE! Every local store, restaurant, chain, you name it.

BUFFALONIANS DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT MOST PEOPLE WITH GOOD JOBS AND MONEY WANT TO SHOP!!!

They do not want to eat and drink like everyone does here, becuase most people with money understand health risks....

People from Toronoto, do not care about our history or architecture. They have their own similar architrcture and it bores most people. If you are not from Buffalo and drive through downtown on a cold day, there is NO REASON TO GET OUT OF YOUR CAR!

These are the facts. If there were real stores down town, people would go downtown and spend money.

Furthermore, no on cares about the Erie Canal ourside of Buffalo. The project is an enormouse waste of time and money.

Benfranklin- That's quite a compliment. I w-i-l-l s-p-e-l-l t-h-i-n-g-s o-u-t f-o-r y-o-u as subtlties seem to easily escape you. Apparently this building provides you all with some masturbatory desire, whatever. Go fix it up, promote it, cover it in gold leaf. Yet it's still stuck in the middle of a tragic part of the city. Let me guess, you're hoping for the field of dreams effect here, right. You fix it and it will transform the east side. How green can you possibly be? Are projects such as this going to draw families back into the city, change the social inequities that resonate so loudly (esp in that area), alter the course of corruption, etc), please. So do nothing? Did I even remotely suggest that?

While they may easily escape me, at least I can spell the word (subtleties). I really have no personal interest in the building you speak of. But I take offense to your publically belittling of a man's efforts to do what he feels is his part.

Zen, and your way is to fix all the underlying problems before you address the individual components? We don't have time for that. It may still be stuck in a "tragic" part of the city, but it is isolated (17' above grade and on 17 acres) from the neighborhood and given the right purpose, could be a vital part of revitalizing the east side.

benfranklin, what an orignial zinger. I will flagellate myself with a leather whip for my inadequate spelling and run everything through Word from now on so as not to offend your sensibilites. Yet you do very little to make a point or respond to mine as absurd as they seem to be to you.

zen, this sentence, written by you, would seem to charactize most of your posts. "The infrastructure of Buffalo is so rotten to the core that in some sense there's never going to be any kind of genuine turn around or renaissance."

If this is your belief, fine. I see this as an opinion, but not a fact. I didn't respond to your 'point', because I don't see one.

Gaustad--if you don't know how much is happening and how many good things there are to do in Buffalo, you've chosen not to know the city well. There are TOO many things to do. If you or other people don't see it, the fault is yours, not Buffalo's.

If the the folks in Toronto don't see it, that's their loss. I lived in Toronto and yes, I found it a seriously uninteresting city---dominated by middlebrow entertainment tourism, corporate blandness and aggresively cheap and bad architecture (with some exceptions). Oh, and Hockey Night in Canada. I've said this before, but most Canadians are not especially fond of Toronto and few think of it as their most interesting city. I

f you have a good job, and that can be a large "if," the quality of life in Buffalo--cultural, recreational and people-wise--is superb. There are too many people who enjoy belittling Buffalo on this site, and they do this out of ignorance or immaturity or maybe spite. We'd be better off if this small but loud group moved away.

Size has little to do with how interesting a city can be. Most cities, and certainly Toronto, just start repeating themselves after a certain point.

So according to this article Buffalo is an old Polish neighborhood with some run down buildings and a few dive bars. Awesome.

Curious, that someone would spend so much time responding to my pointless arbitrary collection of words. And imagine that, I write opinions rather than empirical facts, what a foreign concept on BRO. And EricOak, are you actually implying that if one is not giddy & positive about Buffalo then they should move away. wtf, are you kidding? So your mantra is No Criticism? Also, I don't think anyone on here has said Toronto is better than Buffalo (though Buffalonians are always compelled to do this in reverse). Most people in this city have such a defensive inferiority complex when it comes to Toronto.

EricOak is the second I've noticed today advocating that people who don't share their viewpoint should move away. Mjman4 was the other. Maybe suggesting we leave is their way of accepting Prof. Glaeser's suggestion for "shrinking to greatness". http://tinyurl.com/2luvno

Anyhow according to the Census Bureau it seems to be working so they should be happy. Unless the people leaving aren't the one they want to leave. Gets complicated.

When's the next 'Happy To Be Here And Now Let's Decide Who We Want To Leave' Hour?

Once again look at Mayor Byron Brown who wants to get rid of the control board so he can give more money to unions...unions are like leaches .... your not going to get them off your back....their always going to be on your back sucking your blood,...yes they will get their fill and leave you alone...but its not long before they are hungry again and need another feeding ( a feeding Buffalo cannot afford)

ok...am I digressing....whats the point? The point is that this positive press says that the eyes of Ontario are upon us and its up to us to showcase what we have to offer OTHER THAN RETAIL AND SPORTS. This means fixing roads, expanding the light rail, expanding parking garages, expanding office buildings, cleaning brownfields, expanding warehouse and industrial space, etc

It also means funding a new convention and conference center, it means funding our culturals, it means encouraging the A-K to expand in a new facility on the waterfront instead of adding a basement and expanding our museums like the bicycle museum, the great lakes museum, the presidential libraries for Fillmore and Cleveland, etc

It means raising the discussion about high speed rail between Toronto and Buffalo in addition to the Peace Bridge

It means encouraging Buffalo as a corporate center and a distribution center for canadian companies.

It means encouraging the Central Terminal, the Fruiit Belt, Niagara Street, South Park, Abbott, Seneca, Broadway, Genessee and Main. It means rebuilding the Larkin Administration Building and making the Larkin District a mini-city.

MESSAGE TO BYRON BROWN, YOUR A MORON IF YOU THINK THAT WHAT BUFFALO NEEDS AS ITS TOP PRIORITY IS COWTOWING TO UNIONS.

wow, I thought I could be inflammatory and dramatic but gotta say....numerous posters go far beyond me

I like Toronto and I like Montreal and I like Quebec. None are better or worse...their just very different from one another.

As far as being bland ceos...well not everyone acts like drunken celtic street thugs at sporting events (for which the british (irish, scottish, english) have by far the worst reputation)....on the whole canadians have a very reserved personality about them and its fine...and frankly refreshing from the hyper-adrenaline soap opera US culture where everything is exaggerated from politics to sports, from work to divorce, etc.

First lets get one thing straight right off the bat. Toronto would never have been Toronto if the Quebec Separatistes didnt want independence....prior to that movement Canadas fortune 500 companies were in Montreal and people from Toronto used to visit Buffalo for good time! When faced with the possibility of risk and instability of an independent Quebec or a stable canada....fortune 500 companies and people fled to the point Montreal and Quebec still havent quite recovered. So yes Toronto is bland because it became a megacity as fast as possible and as cheap as possible. Thus Toronto is to crowded, to expensive and in many cases to bland. They have a huge homeless problem and its only getting worse because their immigration gates are wide open.

So the city has flaws but every city has flaws and frankly San Francisco being the mecca for cosmopolitan diversity...San Francisco is so liberal that the sooner its destroyed by an earthquake the better. LA is characterless.....Seattle and Portland have become infected with California liberals. CA is so liberal that its having all the diversity of a third world slum as overtaxed middle and upper income families and their businesses leave for the mountains.

Miami and South Florida have nice beaches but its all drugs and HIV and illegals....as a result....its overtaxed, over-hyped and far to expensive for anyone to consider retiring. Whats the industry in Florida? Oranges, drugs, and healthcare for AIDS and illegal immigrants.

You know as bad as buffalo is....its still better than alot of the urinal cakes that some other cities call themselves.

ERICOAK - here we go again with your twisted mind. I would be happy to put my W2 up against yours any year or any day of the week.

There is simply not as much to do in downtown Buffalo as there is in downtown Toronto. It is comparing Apples to Oranges. I think most people on this site agree. This does not mean that I dislike Buffalo, I don't, but the fact is that downtown Buffalo is a pimple compared to Toronto.

Why don't you give specifics regarding the activities that you attend in Buffalo that make it so much better than Toronto?

Further, with regard to the so called "negative" people on this site......I think that perhaps there are a few people that have opened their eyes in the past few months and relaize that much work needs to be done before we can be a Toronoto. These people are called realists and they care about their city just as much as you., if not more.

Eric, your problem is that try to condem people for having a different opinion than yours.

{Edit, Keep all comments relevant and 'on topic' to the particular Buffalo Rising Site posting open for comments}

buffcitygirl - now you are the one that is getting off topic

thanks for the lecture

Eric, Toronto is the most culturally diverse city in Canada. Their architecture is just as beautiful and authentic as NYC.

wizardofza - some people have no sense of humor -

BTD - you need to stick to the topic don't you know that?

I find it interesting that good news is bitterly offensive to certain people. The simplest explanation that I can think of is that these people, for reasons known only to themselves, want Buffalo to fail. Further analysis is best left to professionals within the mental disciplines.

Personally I have never understood what positive outcome can be expected from devoting oneself to building a fortress of invincible pessimism. On the other end of the optimism spectrum, I find the attitudes and achievements of people like Buffalo Terminal’s Mike Miller to be a source of inspiration – and particularly so when their devotion involved a leap of faith.

Thanks Mike.

BuffBolivator - see ChocolateShake above, I think he SPELLS IT OUT very nicely for someone like yourself

BTD - do you think on Detroitrising.com - they have a guy named Chelios?

{EDITED - keep all comments on BRO exactly the way I think they should appear because I own the website}

Bloviator - I for one am not bitterly offended by good news but what exactly is the good news in this thread? Eddy/Max and MMiller sound like good guys, and it's fine that they're really into whatever they're into. Some nostalgia and old building stuff can be interesting. But what exactly is the good news stated above that you think anyone is bitterly offended by? What evidence here makes you say anyone wants Buffalo to fail? Is it possible some people simply disagree with your opinion of what qualifies as important good news? Do you really think that means they want Buffalo to fail and need analysis from "professionals within the mental disciplines"? Really?

AtwaterLouse for Mayor!

I am glad everyone FINALLY came to their senses on this site - I thought I was alone for a long while there....

AtwaterLouse,

Thanks for writing. I always enjoy your opinions and observations. I should have stated that the good news that I am referring to is that the Toronto Star wrote that nice story about us.

Howard

If you really think that "BRO continually pounds out stories about worthless topics" then don't read it. It seems as if you devote an awful lot of time tearing it down. Time that no doubt could be spent more productively elsewhere. There are obviously a lot of intelligent people contributing comments here and I while I usually like to hear opposing viewpoints, this has really headed off into a ditch. For God's sake, it's freakin' article that tries to put Buffalo in a good light to Torontonians and maybe attract a few more Canadian dollars. I'm sorry if that doesn't qualify as news to you, but I get enough of the other stuff from our local media.

PS - thanks Howard! I'm still planning on stopping in one of these weekends to see how the project is going!

"did you live in Love Canal as a kid? " Ha! That was a good one!

So, you waste your valuable time sifting through a site that "continually pounds out stories about worthless topics" to find out if there's one that may be worthy enough for you to read? Who's the "genius"? :)

BuffaloBloviator.....I couldn't agree with you more!

Where can I find this Fortress of Invincible Pessimism?

"Where can I find this Fortress of Invincible Pessimism?"

Take a left at Bass Pro. It's right under the new Peace Bridge. :)

Can't we all just get along? No? OK. The evil plan to see buffalo fail has been found out, it's time to find another city to bring down. buffcitygirl-you can't be serious. One thing that keeps people coming back to this site is the ability to create these insane wormholes that diverge into new "conversations" it's hardly dirty laundry.

Interesting that the stooges (Gaustad, BetterthanDetroit, Wizard, RisingDamp) were all up after midnight posting here- or is it really one person with multiple personalities trying to create the illusion that someone actually agrees with their nonsense???

Slow court and blog day?

LOL, Pundit! :)

BetterThanDetroit's last comment about having to read BRO posts to find out if they're worthless or not reminds me of that old joke about the guy that kept hitting himself in the head with a hammer, because it felt so good when he stopped! :)

ISSUE

Point - Since I live in Asia, it's always been a challenge when someone asks, "where are you from?". The conversation always goes like this:

Local: "Where are you from?"

Me: "Buffalo, NY"

Local: "Oh, I like New York. Where you there on 11 September?"

Me: "No no.. Buffalo's about 10 hours by car from New York City. "

Local: "Wow... so far.".. Puzzled look

Me: "Buffalo is only an hour from Toronto and Niagara Falls."

Local: "OOOH ya.. I've been to Toronto... so cold there".

-------------------------------------------

OBSERVATION Foreign visitors are more likely to fly to Toronto and stay on the Canadian side because 1. It's convenient, 2. They use bus tours, and 3. They don't need to deal with US customs. Foreign visitors would be less likely to fly into NY and drive or fly to Buffalo to see the falls.

-------------- RECOMMENDATION Let's not worry about WTH Toronto does or has, since Buffalo wouldn't be on the same playing field. Focus on the people traveling between Chicago and Boston!

------------------------------------ SOLUTION

We need the Indians (feathers not dots) to barricade the 90 just between William and Walden. Then we can divert all the traffic down the 33 to the foot of Goodell.

Then we can set up a free animatronics show just outside of Shea's. Sell $6.00 slices of Just Pizza, glow in the dark necklaces and free condoms from Marcella’s. Maybe toss in a few crack heads, like the guy who asked me for money on 4 different occasions in the same night.

Now that's a marketing idea!

We took the tolls down, now let's use that to our advantage!

-------------- PS. Even though the conversation dialogue is real, the remainder of the posting is meant for enjoyment of the lighthearted viewing audience.