Buffalo Rising Online

Yes, let's move forward and get it done, so in 10 years people can look back and say "wow, another in the long list of Buffalo transportation blunders." Get it done? How about we get it right.

This plan is both laughable, sad, moronic and myopic. What is with Higgins...he used to be on the side of Buffalonians against the elitists in Albany and DC.....now he has a deal with mephistopholes.

The most valueable land is our waterfront and its a THIN SLICE OF LAND in the inner harbor and outer harbor.

WHAT BETTER WAY FOR DC AND ALBANY TO PROMOTE THAT LAND THAT TO PAVE THE MAJORITY OF IT WITH SIX LANES (2-Fuhrmann Boulevard and 4 Skyway/Route5) OF TRAFFIC PLUS LANDSCAPING.

I dont care how Higgins or Brown or Astrid justifies it.....the citizens of Buffalo dont want it. Higgins needs to do an about face....because he is all alone....and thats not a good place for a politician to be.

**sigh**

What a big pretty picture of the SAME THING that is already there. If this improves access it is only because the roads are less bumpy. The truth is the elevated highways still cuts the outer harbor in half. We need to connect Tifft, Union Slip industrial park, the grain elevators to the shoreline. am elevated highway doesn't connect.. it divides. We are not moving forward. We are spending 55 million to have the same thing..

Notice her first and primary goal, to provide access THROUGH this system... To that ohh so important place of Lackawanna and Hamburg.. I think that says it all.

**sigh**

I really don't undstand how, if dot says the skyway can go with this proposed dot option, would the roadways rejoin each other. You would have an EXPRESSWAY ENDS sign followed by the merging of the boulevard and the elevated portion into one roadway boulevard at grade. Why not just make it one roadway now?! I don't understand their plan it makes no sense to remove the skyway once its built. If they were smart they would show how it works and how this plan is better but they haven't proven that and have not proven why they need to do what they intend to do other then "we need to do something" what?

masterblaster - dot has the alternative plan available and it is doable. educate yourself on the situation then comment.

Where can we find the whole plan to review? The NYSDOT only has a PDF of the goals of the project without any plans burried under the southtowns connector project.

Walking under a high speed elevated highway doesn't suddenly become more appealing because you've named it an "eco-trail." Few walk from one side to the other now, few will do so in 2010 as long as there is an elevated highway. New York's cities have been desecrated with elevated (and sunken) highways from the 33 and 190 in Buffalo, to the 81 and 690 in Syracuse, and the Inner Loop in Rochester.

The DOT's message is easy to spot: Same is change.

War is peace.

Don't drink the Kool-Aid.

masterblaster. I'm sure the same was said of the Kensington - Oh it won't poorly effect surrounding neighborhoods, there are street connections. Local business won't suffer, downtown will get a business boost. The Kensington has been a blunder so will this. People use the Kensington to get out of downtown, not to it. Business has declined off of the Kensington... why stop and shop when you can bypass a neighborhood at 60mph? And the east side has been cut off from the rest of Buffalo and has turned into our poorest area.

The same will be true of this blunder. Business will not develop. Furhmann Blvd will get no traffic as people will simply use the expressway to bypass the city's best natural asset.

We have all seen examples from other cities where elevated expressways have hindered development and at grade boulevards encouraged it. The boulevard option is already planned! NYSDOT has it. They just arent pursuing it. Time doesn't have to be lost. and the majority of people, from Buffalo AND the southtowns who are supporting the boulevard option will benefit.

At one point in it's many re-incarnations (pre-skyway, pre Fr. Baker bridge days) , the 5 corridor was at grade, with several lift bridges. It had some industry, but on the whole the area was pretty desolate. If it didn't developed back then (when buffalo had 600,000) , How would a return to an at grade boulevard make such a difference, now that buffalo has half that population?

vavoom - When Buffalo had 600k + the waterfront wasn't considered a place to take your family to or to shop. It was where the shipping and manufacturing jobs were. Now people look at waterfront spaces as desirable and valuable retail and resdential land. Why wouldn't it develop?

But I'll play devils advocate. Furhmann Blvd currently doesn't get very much use. So if you take out the current highway and install an at-grade boulevard and then not add any substantial connections into it until the area develops. Then you can have a 45mph (you can add 5 minutes to your commute) boulevard that's a direct route to downtown. Then as the area develops it is ready to go for street connections, businesses, recreation, and possible residential. Build an elevated highway... have a barrier that limits access to our best resource.

Well , cdubmoo, if you think that's the place to take your family shopping Have a blast. take a stroll down Rue Fuhrmann in Jan, Feb, Mar

Abbottroad, they do it all the time in Finland, Hamburg (germany), Chicago, NYC, Boston, Cleveland or any number of waterfront cities with similar or worse winters than us. It is difficult now because there is NOTHING THERE. This allows the winds to bother you, put in some city blocks, narrow streets and density the winds disappear up over the buildings.

Want to experience this effect first hand go to Riverside on Niagara Street and Crowley or Niagara and Riverside on a windy day in the winter... its horrid. I know I grew up there. Now walk around the corner down any one of the side streets.. NO wind at all. You can even still SEE the river but the winds are gone pushed up above the neighborhood by the density of it. Very pleasant and totally tolerable. You can go all the way through the city not noticing the wind (except for along the wide roads) until you his UB South which is raised up on the escarpment and takes the brunt of the winds again.

Sorry if I don't buy the weather excuse.

http://www.cnu.org/sites/files/CNUBuffaloWaterfrontSummary.pdf please check ot this pdf before commenting on your support of this Far reaching decision!!!

...furthermore...look at how many developers want to get at that shoshone park rail line to develop it. it doesnt even hold a candle to the route 5 property. this is 235 buildable acers of waterside/park land.developers from all over the country would love to sink there teeth into such a great chunk of property. even if you use the conservitive buffalo tax average given in the link in my previous post it would pay for the whole project in less than 12 years intrest and all. assuming you use higgins 500 million price tag to do the road correctly using dot's blvd. only plan. higgins should be run out of office on this issue alone.

http://www.cnu.org/buffaloskyway also see this site!!!! this one is just to impotant to let slide by!!!!!!!!!

AHHHHHH! It looks like the exact same thing to me except repaved and a bike lane towards the water. This will do NOTHING for the waterfront. We need the wall of an expressway knocked down and turn those 2 roads into one. Time after time again, expressways divide areas, they are unattracative and destroy cities. How about we get things right while we have this golden opportunity in history. We know the mistakes we've made; The I-190 blocking the river, the 198 cutting through Delaware park, the 33 destroying a neighborhood, S.Elmwood cutting through Johnson Park. Is there any more? We did get a little smart and stop the West Side Connector. Lets be smart with this and not make the same mistake

So Fuhrman is placed totally on one side of the big earthen wall we name Rt 5. Thanks for the 10% solution and ensuring the outer harbor will end at Rt5 (if it becomes anything at all) and that everyone will continue to drive right by. Thanks for ensuring a highway will cutoff the entire Buffalo waterfront from the southern city line to the northern city line (Rt 5 and I-190). Pure brilliance.

I'm so surprised Higgins is for this. He is returning a back scratch for something. After a bunch of actions intelligently going against the grain for the better of the community, he is bending over for this project. I want to know why.

The Skyway hits at grade rather quickly. Blvd it from there to the Lakawanna line. The skyway itself can be tackled later.

This changes nothing. Put the $55 mil into the inner harbor or converting the 198. This is a waste and will change nothing down by the water.

No worries, guys. There's a few High Visibility Crosswalks. I'm sold. Heh heh.

http://higgins.house.gov/email.asp send him an email and tell him what you think either way this is way to important to let it pass by.

so d.o.t. landscape architects have made a landscape worthy of olmsted? ha! a joke, a sad ploy to appease. we are not suckers.

We have been hearing talk of making this roadway more city and people friendly for years and now all of a sudden the super highway is locked in as a concept. I don't understand how anyone could say with a straight face "sure there are better ideas but we don't have time to pursue them" The fact is they did and they rejected the better ideas. Now they act as if this is the only thing they can do.

What has happened to Brian Higgins? So disappointing. (And why does BRO refer to him as "Brian"?)

just to let you guys know, its highly unlikely that higgins will read the mail you guys send. You are better off contacting his Legislative Assistant or other staff member en masse.

try this number, more direct and Congress is still in session.

Washington, DC Office 431 Cannon HOB Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-3306

Unfortunately, I'm sure issues on Iraq and the economy may take precedence over highway expansion.

How many times can we be shown pretty pictures of urban highway proposals only to live through their true reality before we say "WTF please stop!"

On the big picture: "We undertake transportation to go somewhere -- not because we want the experience of getting there, so much, as we want to go there. Yet, transportation is a major enterprise. Its infrastructure is large; its dollars are large; the space it takes up is large. And so, although it's a dependent activity, it can be a tremendously influential activity, and watching how transportation can really blend into the larger societal framework and influence it -- either on purpose or accidentally or for better or for worse -- is interesting."

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=624363&category=CAPPROFILE&BCCode=&newsdate=10/18/2007 ........her quotes from timesunion story. doent seem like she'sfollowing her own words on this one.

They say they want to separate commuter from local traffic so there is less congestion. but if the skyway is removed commuter traffic becomes part of a blvd regardless once an at grade bridge is built. one can only infer that when they mean 'separate' the traffic, they intend to keep them separated... meaning no skyway removal. their logic is not convincing if they tell us they are not prolonging the life of the skyway.

if commuter and local traffic is going to 'join' together regardless, just push it back 1 mile or 2 to the small boat harbor and start the blvd there to the skyway and then continuing to an at grade bridge when the skyway is removed.

IMPORTANT TO NOTE - when the commisioner says that the milwaukee highway removal was a highway stub - she's right, it was a highway that fed into local roads and therefore the 'stub' could be removed without adverse impacts. She says route 5 is a highway that goes somewhere - i.e. it connects directly to the 190. Soooo what does that mean- the skyway is never going away with this plan. BECAUSE - if the skyway were removed we would have a route 5 that fed into local roads- a stub.. SAME situation as milwaukee and therefore you could conceive of the same 'highway removal'. but - she says the highway goes somewhere - to the 190 - for her that means no skyway removal.

Maybe by "Olmsted like" they are referring to the current state of Humboldt Parkway? In which case I would agree ;)

Rt 5 is a stub of I-190. And their own studies showed minimal time added to the commute.

Why waste 55mil on a blvd accessing a small strip of land between this wall and the water?

I repeat... **sigh**

http://www.cnu.org/sites/files/DOTsiteplan.jpg

the whole plan, my god it makes the entrance to Tifft almost impossible to find.. how do you get to it from the Boulevard? It magically disappears off the page. It also in essance makes the whole boulevard a dead end cul-de-sac. You need to take the skyway and then exist route five to get to the boulevard again, half way down the outer harbor.. sounds like the EXACT SAME THING AS NOW... NO ONE is going to get off and go lets see what is here to do cause if they were going to do that.. they would have been doing it for 20 years now. This plan has 20 years to proof that it isn't going to work... Higgins and anyone else who supports this needs to really think about how someone is going to USE these roads and then compare it to how we have to Use the ones there now. Then they will realize there isn't anything new.

Sure a roundabout at the exit.. great, the fact is the NECESSITY to exist route 5 to get to the waterfront is the problem... ROUTE 5 needs to BE the waterfront.

where's the online petition. we have until nov. 14 (the date they go out to bid) to stop this crappy alternative. thanks a lot higgins!

"Higgins is confusing action with accomplishment."

"Let's hurry up and do the wrong thing."

Great quotes.

An e-mail I received from Brian Higgins:

Olmsted-Like Parkway set for 3.3 mile stretch along Buffalo Waterfront October 19, 2007

$55 million investment in Outer Harbor set for construction in spring of ’08

ESD To Lead Study for New Bridge Between Downtown and Outer Harbor

Calling it an unprecedented positive investment in waterfront development, Congressman Brian Higgins (NY-27) was joined by City of Buffalo Mayor Byron Brown, New York State Department of Transportation Commissioner Astrid Glynn, Assemblymembers Sam Hoyt, Mark Schroeder and Crystal Peoples, NYS Senator William Stachowski, City of Lackawanna Mayor Norman Polanski and other representatives from state, county and city agencies to demonstrate strong support for the reconstruction of Fuhrmann Boulevard from a confusing, unsafe and underutilized road to a two-way tree-lined, Olmsted-like waterfront parkway that will finally deliver on the decades of promise to bring people to the water’s edge.

This fully funded, $55 million, 36-month construction project will fundamentally change the Outer Harbor landscape and will open up the 120-acre NFTA site and other vast parcels to a mixture of new parkland and new residential development, with commercial development potential as well.

Originally known as the Southtowns Connector Project, the first feasibility study for an improved roadway system was initiated in 1991. “This project has been studied for more than 16 years, costing $6 million with not one shovel in the ground,” said Congressman Higgins. “We must have the collective courage as a community to move forward and finally get the improved access that we have been denied for far too long.”

This waterfront parkway will feature paths for pedestrians and bicyclists and is expected to be the largest project ever undertaken along Buffalo’s Outer Harbor. Upon completion, this reconstructed stretch of Fuhrmann, from the Union Ship Canal to the Coast Guard Station, will incorporate many urban and aesthetic design principles including wide sidewalks, streetscape furniture, stamped concrete, roundabouts, generous landscaping, decorative Central Park-type lighting, a central median, signage and historical markers.

"I am in full agreement with Congressman Higgins that this project is good for the continuing development of Buffalo's waterfront and that it will provide better, not worse, access to the Outer Harbor," said Mayor Brown. "The suggestion that further study is needed for the beneficial impact of this project is curious, given that it has been studied for almost two decades. This is the right project for this critical infrastructure that will strengthen our ongoing redevelopment of the City's waterfront, provide significantly improved access for City residents and visitors to our waterfront, notably the Outer Harbor, and it will position us well for the shared goal of the eventual removal of the Skyway. An Olmsted-like parkway that will open access to our City's waterfront is certainly more preferable and beneficial than a boulevard that will impede access to the waterfront, take more land that could be better used for development and would actually hamper future removal of the Skyway."

Landscape design of the highest quality is critical and to that end, Commissioner Glynn has agreed to create a panel of local stakeholders, including persons familiar with Olmsted’s extensive work in Buffalo, to oversee the $2 million which will be spent on landscaping modeled after the work of renowned landscape architect Frederick Law Olmsted. Additionally, this panel would be charged with developing a proposal for the long-term maintenance program to ensure the extensive landscaping has an extensive lifespan.

“A great new day is dawning in Buffalo. Long-awaited progress is coming as a result of the vision and commitment Congressman Higgins and other local leaders have shown through their strong support for this much-anticipated project,” Commissioner Glynn said. “I am gratified by the cooperation the department has received from the community in developing this plan through a years-long process and look forward to continuing to work with local groups to ensure its success.”

“This occasion presents a rare opportunity to tie together areas of public access, parkland, and nature preserves with an Olmstedian parkway design, while allowing for contextually appropriate development to supplement the City’s tax base,” Higgins added.

Real progress on the Fuhrmann Parkway is the first phase of a long-term strategy leading to the ultimate goal of the removal of the Skyway and the elevated section of Route 5. Following completion of the parkway, the next phase will be the implementation of the findings of the required study to identify the best bridge connection required between the Inner and the Outer Harbors. GBNRTC (Greater Buffalo Niagara Regional Transportation Council) approved the $2 million needed to fund the study earlier this year. Empire State Development (ESD) has agreed to lead the study for a bridge between Downtown Buffalo and the outer harbor, the construction of which is necessary for removal of the Skyway and elevated portion of Route 5.

“The Empire State Development Corporation and its subsidiary, the Erie Canal Harbor Development Corporation, are excited by the prospect of leading the required study under this project to determine the best bridge connection between the inner and outer harbors,” said Kenneth Schoetz, chief operating officer for Upstate ESDC. “This will be an interesting bridge, and in advancing this effort, we look forward to working with federal, state and city agencies to implement a project schedule that promotes the vision of expeditious and appropriate economic development of the inner and outer harbors.”

Outer Harbor Progress

This $55 million investment complements the exciting number of projects that are under construction, completed and being considered along the Outer Harbor, including:

Outer Harbor Greenbelt Project Dramatic improvements are being made along the 6,600 feet of Lake Erie shoreline, starting at the now demolished Pier Restaurant, south around the Bell Slip and ending at Terminal B of Buffalo’s port facilities. The project includes $14 million for the Environmental Restoration Outer Harbor Greenbelt Program that will be completed in 2008. Enhancements include:

• Creation of a paved recreational path for public use along the shoreline for joggers, walkers, bikers, etc;

• Landscaping to include native plants to attract local wildlife and provide an improved natural setting;

• Construction of a shallow-water fish habitat along the shoreline within the existing embayment known as the Bell Slip; and

• Replacement of the shoreline embankment with an engineered heavy stone to minimize erosion.

Gallagher Beach/ Boat Harbor/ State Park • $2.5 million investment included a boardwalk extending the length of the harbor through Gallagher beach, a small boat/ personal watercraft launch, beach access and bike-ways. Negotiations still ongoing with NFTA to turn over to the New York State Park system as the first State Park in the City of Buffalo.

Times Beach Nature Preserve • A 50-acre former disposal facility, Times Beach now provides safe public access to one of the best birding areas in the Northeastern United States and features 4,000 feet of trail and three wildlife observation decks. Consolidation of Coast Guard Land

• At the request of Congressman Higgins and Senator Hillary Clinton, the Coast Guard is expected to submit a proposal report to Congress by 2009 for the design, engineering and construction of the project, which would pave the way for the consolidation of the current 31-acre Buffalo Coast Guard facilities, restoring public access to 20 acres of green space surrounding the Buffalo’s historic lighthouse at the Outer Harbor.

19 Acres of Prime Waterfront Land to be Returned to the Public Domain • NYPA will relocate the ice boom from its present 14 acre location on the Outer Harbor and turn the land over to the ECHDC, once a new site is finalized; and

• ECHDC is negotiating with Cargill to purchase 5 acres of land directly adjacent to NYPA’s ice boom parcel and parallel to Seaway Piers.

Bridge Connecting Downtown Buffalo with the Outer Harbor • Two million dollars in Federal Highway funds was designated by the Greater Buffalo-Niagara Regional Transportation Council (GBNRTC) to start the first phase necessary in planning for a new bridge to connect the Inner and Outer Harbors – a connection which will allow for the eventual removal of the Skyway.

• Empire State Development will lead the review which consists of an environmental study and preliminary engineering designs.

mjworthington - i see your point that route 5 is a stub as it becomes an at grade road anyways as you move further south. so that makes this all the more ludicris. if the skyway is removed you will have a highway segment on the outer harbor that doesn't connect to anything. surface roads either direction - so what is the point of that?

to illustrate:

today we have:

(190 EXPRESSWAY) to (SKYWAY BRIDGE) to ( OUTERHARBOR RT5 EXPRESSWAY) to (surface road route 5)

then skyway removed:

(main street or erie street) to (lift bridge) to (OUTER HARBOR RT 5 EXPRESSWAY) to (surface road route 5)

someone please tell me how that makes sense. why do we build a future lonely expressway on the very land we are trying to develop? can they really defend their decision?

I called Congressman Higgins office and voiced my belief that Higgins once won the respect of the citizens of Buffalo because he was providing a voice for his voting constituents during the NYPA relicensing and the removal of tolls....but now he is turning against his constituents in attempting to bully the southtowns connector over the single boulevard....especially when they are going to build a Tifft Street bypass to I-190 and bully an expanded peace bridge plaza that everyone opposes.

TO WHICH THE STAFFER IN HIGGINS OFFICE REPLIED THAT WHO EXACTLY IS EVERYONE! A FEW DISGRUNTLED PEOPLE IN FRONT OF CITY HALL OR THE MAJORITY THAT ATTENDED CONGRESSMAN HIGGINS PRESS CONFERENCE!

THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE BACKING HIGGINS...AND WE CANNOT HOLD BACK BUFFALO BECAUSE OF A FEW DISGRUNTLED!

To label the Buffalo City Council and a majority of local Buffalo institutions and affected communities A FEW DISGRUNTLED people is beyond fathom....what has happened to Higgins that he and his staff could be such out of touch bullies for their own propagandized agenda....to which I have only one message for Higgins...

YOUR HAD THE TIDE OF PUBLIC OPINION CHAMPION YOU AND GOT YOU ELECTED BY REPRESENTING THE VOICE OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS

YOU CAN GET HAVE THE TIDE OF PUBLIC OPINION TURN AGAINST YOU JUST AS EASILY AND BOOTED OUT OF OFFICE JUST AS EASILY

on the rb 66 email... many of those projects are great indeed but will only be realize ther full potential if route 5 is dealt with properly this time around . in its current form it is being done second best(and thats being kind)then hidden in a laundry list of this email detailing other good ideas the city is undertaking.also worthy of note is the fact that this nasty little bomb was dropped on a friday ,no doubt in hope that any story will wither away over the weekend.

harry your comment is completely lame and a majority of it is just a lie.

higgins completely shut off the people who vote him into office on this one and all those politicians were there just to support HIM not the actual project. specifically brown stays on higgins good side by doing so.

i all reality we are getting a second rate project at the expense of the ignorance of pols.