Saturday: Save Our Churches
The hope is to get enough people to attend the community meeting who may be interested in helping to generate ideas. It is also an informative event that will shed some light on the current situation that Buffalo (and other cities throughout the country) are facing at this time. The organizers are hoping to reach parishioners, preservationists, developers, block club and community group members, nonprofits and anyone else who is interested in getting involved. This would be an excellent opportunity for developers who have been looking to take on significant projects. Funding sources will be examined, as will the current conditions of the churches. I would imagine that there will be a City of Buffalo representative there to answer questions... and it would be very, very beneficial to have anyone there who may have been involved with any church restoration efforts in the past.
The public meeting takes place tomorrow, February 23rd at Ani DiFranco's Babeville (former Asbury Delaware church @ Tupper) from 9am to noon. Refreshments will be served and donations will be accepted.
Here are a few recent BRO church-related posts...
Our Lady of Lourdes (photo)
What Others Have To Say
What Do You Think?
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chris69
Something needs to be done because these arent just churches but part of the architectural fabric of our city.
My suggestionis that because Buffalo has so few town centers that these churches could act as community centers with perhaps gyms in the basement, meeting and performance space upstairs, perhaps even satellite offices for city hall
Yes I will go and I will encourage everyone to go.
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Biniszkiewicz
The Catholic Church hurts efforts to re-use their buildings by deed restricting them from restaurant/nightclub use. This is a significant barrier in redeveloping at least a few buildings which might otherwise be saved.
Take the church photographed above on Main @ Best, or take the church on Edward @ Elmwood. Either of those structures might appeal strongly to a night club operator or restauranteur. The Catholic Church argues, when divesting itself of excess real estate, that the Church ought not be burdened by these unneeded structures. The Church says that once they are decommissioned, these buildings are only, after all, buildings. They are no longer, according to the diocese, sacred. Fair enough. I go along with that line of reasoning.
But if they are no longer sacred, then why the fuss about what the buildings' future incarnations ought be? There are precious few good uses for old churches. These big open structures were designed specifically for the purpose of holding big groups of people together at one time. Other than sporting events, theater and entertainment, there isn't a great need for this type of space. Banquet hall and night club are two uses that can fit the bill, if the location works. But the diocese doesn't want alcohol served in real estate it once owned. Too bad. I say if you sell it, you lose the right to determine what happens inside. The Catholic Diocese ought not complicate the redevelopment of these behemoths through deed restrictions. I think you could make a hell of strip club in one.
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Martin
All of the city churches are so beautiful, it is a shame these landmarks are allowed to go to ruin. I suggest the state should start taxing the church in order to generate revenue for the upkeep of these buildings. Also, maybe the Catholic charities should move off Main street, free up those buildings for development and into empty churches in order to help to maintain them, along with the Bishop moving into one of the old parish houses and give up the manse!
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Drew
As a pastor of a church that owns and old, big building (1895), I wish I would have heard about this meeting before this afternoon. While I cannot attend, I hope that the results of said meeting are shared publicly.
Biz. You are right on. I think it makes sense to sell the building as-is, with no restrictions. In Pittsburgh, a number of Roman Catholic Churches have been converted into well used buildings that include a nightclub, a restaurant, a banquet hall, a high-end hotel, and a private residence.
Martin, your idea is not so hot. Really, if a congregation cannot maintain a building without paying taxes, is it really going to produce the necessary tax revenue to care for these buildings in perpetuity?
And finally, just to be theologically/grammatically correct--which is a rarity, I know. This post is about saving church buildings, not churches. The church is the people (and even more technically speaking, there is only one). This is an important distinction, because the more we identify a building with the church, the less likely we are to use the building for something else.
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Tesla
I really love what Ani(and others) did for that church.
But c'mon.....BABEVILLE.
I know five year olds that could've picked a better name than that.
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wizardofza
A blanket call to "Save Our Churches" is a feelgood thing to do yet ignores some crucial social and economic realities.
Unfortunately, many of these ditched edifices are now nothing more than white elephants. The church and its congregates made a collective decision to abandon their traditional neighborhoods, therefore the buildings are stuck with a nasty fate of rotting in place; They're becoming monuments to the soul-tormenting placelessness of contemporary American society.
In the struggling parts of the city completely lacking the necessary wealth to keep up these magnificent buildings, there is little hope for viable reuse, no matter how much "generating ideas" can be done at some meeting. It's so much more economical to run a religious service or community function out of a small, energy efficient econobox. Asking the dirt poor left behind in these neighborhoods to reuse these white elephants is beyond absurd.
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tonyarmani
heres a great idea to save the churches: go. attend mass. Buffalo has more than enough people (including enough Catholics) to keep 50% of the churches off the chopping block. Parents do not make their kids goto church, which loses new members. I am sorry if your parents forced you to go and now you dislike the place, but don't hold it back for your kids. Churches are a part of Buffalo's history as much as chicken wings, blizzards, and wide right.
So you really want to save churches? You can start this sunday.
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Drew
Preach it, Tony.
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Tesla
I think the building themselves are beautiful.
But I hate what they represent in every way.
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Marti
What better place than Buffalo, with our surfeit of fabulous -- and soon-to-be-vacant -- churches, to host an international conference on the re-use and re-purposing of houses of worship? We're not the only community with this challenge, but we may be one of the best endowed!
A conference, sponsored by any (or preferiby all) of local preervation organizations would shine a spotlight on these assets (and yes, they are assets, albeit problematic ones at the moment) and bring national and international attention -- and visitors -- to Buffalo.
And how about a competition for the most innovative (yet feasible) reuse/repurpose concept. Ideas would flow in from all over the world, as would attendees. The Grand Prize? Think... a house of worship in which to implement the winning concept!
I have been floating this idea for the past several months, and it's been meeting with no small amount of enthusiasm. I think it would give us some great event management experience prior to the 2011 National Historic Preservation Trust conference!
I will be at The Church (also having trouble with Babeville, thank you very much) tomorrow morning. Thanks to Tim for organizing this get together. Great idea!
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chris69
I really think that Ani DeFranko really hit on something. I see no reason why these churches could not be deeded to the Buffalo Convention Bureau for conventions and meetings, especially if their community related.
Or deeded to a local college for use as a library or a conference center.
Or deeded to the city for say a DMV or city hall satellite office
Or deeded to the County for a Library or satellite office.
A restaurant / banquet facility shouldnt be deeded against ... I can understand a nightclub with sex and alcohol may be objectionable but not a restaurant / banquet facility.
Whats wrong with a community center?
There is so much...and I just do not understand why the Catholic Church is abandoning them nor do I understand why these churchs cant be redeveloped.
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RisingDamp666
Deed them to Planned Parenthood.
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chris69
I think its really symptomatic of the catholic church. It was the catholocism within those old churchs that created the spiritualism and the life long commitment to their faith...which was reflected in those churches meant to last hundreds of years.
The catholic church is abandoning those churchs for inexpensive brick equivalents of pre-manufactured trailors which really puts catholicism on par with say every other transient and shallow faith in the free market of religion.
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dixiechick
Hey, If I won the lottery, I'd buy one or two churches and turn them into community centers. Think performing arts summer camps, (not just summer, but after school, etc), art programs for every age, meeting/block clubs halls, therapeutic gardens for all ages, all abilities, mucis, dance concerts....community health programs....things that bring a community together, like these beautiful churches did in the past. I'm Jewish, but I love the architechture, community history and symbolism embodied in these historic buildings. At a time when symbolism is usually lost in our culture, what a great opportunity to bring that back, in all of the ways that neighbors take care of, and care for neighbors, of any faith, be it religious, or just a faith/hope in one's community.
Oh! And lets not forget both the Hstory and the Craft of what it took to build these buildings. Craft with a capital C. A big part of B'flo history, now, too often forgotten, unrecongized and unappreciated.
Anyway, that's part of what I'd do with my lottery winnings. Just wish that those who have the resources to do something about this would think 'inside' the box, as in keeping communities strong and vibrant.
My wish list.
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skarnath
There are a number of city churches where the congregations are fighting to stay open, asking nothing from the Diocese but to be allowed to do so. The Journey in Faith & Grace Commission set "vibrancy" as the principal test for determining which churches would remain open and which would be closed or merged. They laid out nine criteria for determining vibrancy (Strategic Planning Process Document - 10/27/05). Yet even when congregations have demonstrated that they meet all 9 criteria (including "financial stability"), the Diocese and the Commission have been unwilling to engage in any meaningful dialogue with these parishes, and have merely defended their closure/merger decisions. If the Diocese had handled this as a true spiritual process, with real give and take with parishes, I believe there would be fewer church (buildings) closings in the city. This was a squandered opportunity by the church.
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blkfootblaquexx
We need more early childhood center's and public libraries for students. Why not equip the entire church for youths with acess to many kinds of educational programs. Lord knows we need it.
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blkfootblaquexx
We need more early childhood center's and public libraries for students. Why not equip the entire church for youths with acess to many kinds of educational programs. Lord knows we need it.
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Calitrano
I Grew up on East Delavan, my parents were married at St. Gerards, I am a member of the St. Lawrence parish that has consolidated, St. Gerards, Queen of Peace, St. James, Holy Remdeamer and Holy Name. I can only say, you have to get out there and support these churches, I support the fish fries, i go to the masses and through a couple envelopes in the basket, I attended a meeting to see what can happen to my old grammer school behind the church, which incidentally they wanted to knock down. I can honestly tell you its all white flight, all my childhood friends are gone out of East Delavan, it was like suburbia till the 80s, but every body left. Real estate in the buffalo area is soo cheap, anybody who is not on welfare can live in the burbs. On dyngus, i will journey with my best friend to support these polish churchs, but you know, what polish are left on the east side? Even getting them to go to the Broadway Market is like asking for an act of God. You have to support these old churches like i do, even though i am now in amherst, and should move back, i support my old neighborhood East Delavan by writing numerous letters to the mayor, and support those churchs... If any one wants to see what we are up to http://www.stlawrencebuffalo.org/ you are welcome to come...
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Drew
So what did I miss? How about a follow-up post?
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elliebarts
[written by Tim, edited by me] Timatbuffalo@aol.com
I am sadden by the closing of these churches, in that the Catholic Church wouldn't come up to the community needs of the neighborhood. They have failed their parishioners.
In looking at places that have not failed their faithful followers, such as the Chapel in Amherst, the Baptist, and Unitarians, we can learn that these people know how to bring their congregation together in support of their neighborhood. They still follow the original intent of a church by helping each other in support which comes in many ways like education, comforting the sick, and caring for the elderly and young. If a neighbor had a bad roof, furnace or porch, they got together and fixed it.
I would like to see the community look at other uses and suggest solutions such as:
1. Libraries - a lot of these are in need of redo, so let's move them. 2. Community Center - again a lot of these currently are ugly and old, so use a beautiful church. 3. Mausoleum - Europe has done this for centuries, build a crypt and fill it with ashes. 4. Medical Centers - clinics and offices, private and public. 5. Consulting Program Facilities - we have vets that need our help and love. 6. Theaters - there is no business like show business, help the children shine. 7. Public Sale/Combination of Above Suggestions - this would take some real energy and some should be sold to people that would like a beautiful church in their towns in Arizona, California, and Colorado. The cost of dismantling and reconstruct is nothing to the cost of materials and artisans to make new and this could fund renovations.
What it will take is some real love by these offices in their community, to take what is needed to covert these beautiful buildings into useful structures while keeping their integrity and architectural beauty. If a small little old man named Father Baker can build and fund a Basilica why can't we convert a gem to last a lifetime?
Tim
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