Buffalo Rising Online

Is it true?

Have I actually lived to see the day that the City of Buffalo has begun to appreciate it's own architectural heritage?

Or, is it just a dream?

pesky preservation? what a pathetic comment...

pesky preservationists are pathetic, yes... always standing in the way of progress.... :-P

Just think without the preservationists we could have so many more shovel ready sites at our disposal and parking Ohhh the parking we would have. Why do we stand in the way of parking???

What exactly IS an RFP (request for proposal)?

What does it do and what does it entail?

RFP Entails...

Submitting your proposal for the site. City then selects proposal they like best. Winner gets preferred developer status. Preferred developer then has a specified time frame to make the plan come to fruition, or the process starts again.

I know where these buildings are and to be honest, their not architecturally interesting enough or high density enough for Main Street.

I would be against a demolition for a parking lot, thats for sure. Better to have them re-used than to bring yet another parking lot to our city BUT IF SOMEONE CAME ALONG AND WANTED A 5 STORY STRUCTURE LIKE THEIR PUTTING ON DELAWARE OR EXTENDED THE 3-5 STORY STOREFRONTS THAT ARE PREVALENT ON THE REST OF THE BLOCK....THEN THAT WOULD BE IDEAL.

They would be incredible houses in any neighborhood but not Main Street. Main Street needs more density than these buildings can offer. I wonder how much it would cost to move them to one of the empty sites in the local neighborhood?

any development of the 800 block can't be bad. even if the preservationist took one of the buildings as a head1/4.

they can then do what they want everybody else to do. live in yesterdays make believe world instead of moving into tomorrow. the 800 block should keep them busy for a decade or so while the rest of the city prospers!

And the city has really been prospering under the tear it all down crowd that has held rule over the city for the last 50 years hasn't it?

You can really feel the proserity while you walk past all those shovel ready sites on a cool winter day

Is it safe to assume that the same people who've turned the term 'liberal" into a dirty word are the same ones who are making "preservationists" the enemy?

Stan and Dave, I understand your points of view, but you neglect some facts and negate your own arguments.

If these are not "architecturally interesting enough... for Main Street " then how could they "be incredible houses in any neighborhood but not Main Street," Why were they built on Main Street long ago, when Buffalo was a much healthier city? Main Street does not have to become a high-rise wall; it is already a psychological divide between the two major parts of the city.

What does "moving into tomorrow" mean? Look around at the rest of urban America. It has moved into tomorrow and it is horrifying.

Perry, give me a break....Im not in the pro-parking lot camp nor am I in the demolition for the build later camp.

I appreciate the buildings for what they are but would like to see more density on Main Street which is why I like these buildings more if they were on a side street residential neighborhood.

Is that so unreasonable? Id like to see more 5 story buildings on Main Street like there are on Delaware and now on Elmwood.

In fact Id like to see more 5 story buildings on Niagara Street and Grant Street and South Park/Abbott and Broadway and Genessee and Swan too. These are our major corridors!

Atleast give me the credit that Im not in the demolition/parking lot camp. Id rather keep them than have an empty lot.

Stan, I do give you that credit, for I wouldn't know otherwise. Didn't think I put you in any demolition/parking lot camp. I was arguing another matter entirely These buildings would hold their own alongside taller structures; restored they would compete with any high-rise, or higher-rise. The people who write to this site-- you, me, so many others-- want a great Buffalo. How to get there is a source of argument.

I don't live in Buffalo, much as I plan to make it home before too long passes; I just love it, like so many people who contribute their opinions to BRO.

As a general rule, I would agree with you: the major corridors would benefit by well-designed, higher buildings. I still believe, firmly, however, that any older American city would benefit even more if it were able to enforce a policy that no structurally-sound historic structure be demolished unnecessarily.

Structures with differing heights tend to often 'balance' the streetplane visually.

I think the city should pull its head out of its hole and look at the developement in other cities. This is another project we should wrap in red tape and ask everyone its opinion on what to do. We could turn it into a Bass Pro developement agency, Peace Bridge pre planing planing center, or maby a Control Board Headquarters. I bet its 3 years before they even think of wtf to do with the structure.

Actually, I like what they do in places like Philadelphia when they want to keep historic or architecturally significant streets intact but also what higher density development.

They keep the frontage of the buildings and then put a setback from the building and put a higher density in back. Its a compromise. Its not purist preservation that the interior of the building remains intact but in many cases the interior of the building has been gutted long ago and its only the front thats worth saving.

Its actually kind of amazing to walk down the street and still see all these wonderful brownstones, rowhouses, retail shops, victorians, etc....and yet...you look up and there is a tall high density office or residential or mixed building in the center of it. ITS A THOUGHT THAT MAYBE WE CAN PRESERVE OUR HISTORIC STREETFRONTS WHERE THEY ARE STILL INTACT AND STILL HAVE HIGH DENSITY DEVELOPMENT. THERE RE WAYS IT CAN COEXIST. Philly is really a great city for preserving the old and promoting the new.

I can see it now , the preservations are frothing at the mouth, just waiting to tear apart someone elses idea of putting this building into history so that it can again go on the tax rolls. please , arent there any at all ,deep pocketed "presers" not shallow pocketed "obstructionists" who can purchase this building and make it into a useful property again. make it a poster child for all to see that preservationists can contribute something more than INPUT!!

Well, I think there are different views of what makes a streetscape look good. After years living in very large cities where a high rise can stand next to brownstones, I fell in love with Buffalo for not having those jarring juxtapositions. It's a personal judgment, I know, but I savor that Buffalo is more like Savannah or Charleston than Philly or Toronto, as far as streetscape scale and density. Buffalo has a texture that can't be replicated, and this building has all the elements for successful reuse. It will never go out of style. It is classic, and that's something worth retaining.

Stan makes a fine point. If we have decided to value density in our most urban of urban districts then the form of these two buildings resists that intention. Its a fair question and a valid point he makes. However, from the photo and from my memory I don't think the set back from the street is too major. If some sort of well designed addition can be made to undermine that setback, I don't think the pedestrian would really notice. The awning on the building to the right is already reacting to that need to connect with the sidewalk. It is reaching out to the street. Patio seating, awnings, signage or even and well lit interior can do enough to connect and keep that street activity at a high enough level to satisfy the pedestrian until he/she reaches a denser set of buildings. --- It really boggles the mind though that some others are making posts criticizing the preservation of these buildings even though the granite works project is percieved as a huge success. I try and understand it. Do you folks just not like the oldness of the buildings? Or is it the idea of government intervention? Or like larry suggested, is it an ideological battle? Do preservationists represent the soft and politically correct liberal that you tough guys are just dieing to hit with a dodgeball?

I don't see why Stan and Dave are getting all hot and bothered about putting a 3-5 story building on this site. There are at least as many buildings that are shorter than 878 Main as there are taller buildings on both sides of the street on this block. Also, this is a narrow spot between ZeptoMetrix (to the left) and Roxy's (to the right) that would make a 5 story building stick out from its immediate neighbors. Both neighboring buildings are shorter than 878 Main Street. Many of the stores (e.g. Hyatt's) on the west side of Main street extending almost up to Allen are two story buildings (until you get to the old Summit Electronics building and the Red Jacket apartments). Across the street at the corner of Virginia and Main (east side) is a one story building. I think 878 Main Street, Roxy's and the 2nd Empire building being rehabbed down by the Granite Works add some interest to the block. I'd save your energy to add a 3-5 story building for the Summit Electronics building which I've read has a huge hole in the roof and sounds like it has faired poorly while owned by the city.

Beware of city-sponsored RFPs. They are often put forth to give a false impression of a fair an open-ended process. More often they are used to iron-clad and rubber stamp projects that are likely to receive opposition from the community. RFPs also sometimes are deliberately poorly-publicized so as to receive as few proposals as possible, making it easier to deliver projects to the developer (in this case demo-hungry Zeptometrix) the City already had in mind beforehand. Or these RFPs have incredibly short timelines, making it nearly impossible for alternate plans to emerge. Good things take time, which Zeptometrix has had -- many years, in fact. Only bad things can happen in short timespans.

LOL...these people that want all these 5 storey and higher buildings, and what pray tell will go in them? The new Micro Soft offices, maybe GE power systems corporate offices? We have a critical mass of hight, downtown, half empty! Take the new building on Delaware, if a major player like a bank moves into it, who will move into the newly vacant space that they leave? Trust me, I am all for growth and new development, but also I am a realist and would like to see what we have being used first.

I'm starting to understand why Buffalo is such a regressive city . After reading these comments it's becoming more and more apparent, Buffalo is a city full of pessimistic people I don't have anything against pessimism, however there needs to be a balance. Out of 22 comments not one person suggested an idea for the building on main st . Surely somebody has at least one suggestion . I could think of several. What about the new live-work concept. Or why not retail ( combination Bookstore/coffee shop or Boutique it's a perfect location for just about anything.

I would love to know what a "minimalist" restoration of this house would take, financially speaking. Just the major ticket items... roof, asbestos removal, utilities, boiler/furnace, foundation/structure, etc.

What would it cost to get an evaluation like this? Would a normal home inspection do the job?

Marcia,

The discussion on this thread has evolved into the merits of this building's reuse versus a new build (demo for parking not being championed by anyone). I don't see how this discussion is regressive or pessimistic unless you view thoughtful discussion as a negative. Urban planning rather than willy nilly development is far from regressive IMO. Others on this thread have focused on threshold issue involving the RFP (rehab, demo & rebuild, & demo for parking), you've skipped over this and gone right to potential use.