Buffalo Rising Online

cojo- Gun buybacks probably are not very effective. Until America enacts some kind of reasonable gun control we will continue to suffer from senseless violence. As long as gun crimes are contained in the city there will be no real effort to bring about change.

that's it... I think they should tripple the price if they really want to pull guns away from people. Then its worth stealing them from the drug dealers to sell yourself. No one in that 'line of work' is going to give up their gun for 100 bucks... lame..

right because a drug dealer is going to sell their gun for even a $1000. The point of this is more so to prevent the deaths caused by rampages where people flip out and grab a gun and shoot somebody because a gun is around them, or a toddler accidently kills somebody because their dad has a gun in the house. You arent going to get the people who use the guns as a way of life to give up theirs. At the same time how effective are efforts to stop people from using drugs? should we just legalize them then?....they did pretty well with this program last year...i think they collected a good nubmer of guns...i couldnt find the numbers but im thinkin it was 500-1000 or something

thanks fo rthe reminder, i'm sure most of your readers have guns to turn in...

kooks- your right, taking even a few guns off the street could save a life

It's important to understand that weapons dropped off at these events may have ALREADY been used to commit a crime, which was the case with many obtained last year through the gun buyback program. Investigators then have an important piece of evidence that could potentially lead to crimes being solved. Who drops off the gun or why it gets dropped off is not important, but having a traceable piece of evidence is.

Don't cite nonsense studies or claim that this effort is a waste of time, especially if you have no understanding of the intricacies of the program. Yes, if someone wants a gun with the intent of using it in a crime, they'll obtain it one way or another - there isn't a single buyback program or otherwise that could possibly change this. But collecting "discarded" and unwanted weapons could make a difference.

onestarmartin is right...unfortunately the people who should be turning in guns are not reading BR On-line. I'm still going by the Chris Rock mentality that if the bullets cost $1000 people would think twice before using them....

This is exactly why we need tighter controls on the manufacture and sale of guns. Guns that are never in the marketplace cannot be used to commit crimes, it is that simple. Guns that are never sold or stolen cannot be used for intimidation and robbery. They cannot be used to commit heinous crimes against innocent victims regardless of circumstance. We need to change the tradition of violence in America, this isn't the wild west anymore.

dont tell the NRA or those against gun control that (i just turned this tread into a political issue now didnt i? crap)

I am for this program, as I feel every gun off the street, makes the streets safer for everyone. But if you really wanted to pull more in a higher bounty might have made the program even better.

There is no easy fix to the problem of guns and violence but the way we are doing it now sure isn't working. We really don't talk honestly about it because it is usually "them" not "us" that are getting shot. But with each innocent bystander or child that is caught in the crossfire the argument for change should be obvious to any decent person.

innocent bystanders and children?

A better way to stop violent crimes would be to increase the number of guns in the market. The criminals will find ways to get their hands on weapons regardless of the laws - crack dealers don't buy their guns from the local Dicks or Gander Mountain. Imagine how ineffective it would be for a criminal to pull a gun on someone, knowing that person and many others around, are likely to have one as well... Or imagine breaking into someone's house when you know they have means to protect themselves. I would imagine it wouldn't get to far.

Just to clarify - I do not believe that guns should be used to harm. They are very effective tools for hunting. Just out of curiosity - have any of you even fired a gun before?

kerr - Your comment starts by saying 'many' guns obtained in Buffalo's previous buy back were used in crimes. However the spokesman said they did no testing, so they have no idea if any of those guns were ever used in crimes. You wrote 'many' but it might have been none. The police apparently didn't think it was useful enough to test any of the turned in guns for investigative purposes.

'City readies new buyback of firearms By Brian Meyer NEWS STAFF REPORTER Updated: 09/12/08 6:53 AM

...None of last year’s weapons was tested, said Police Department spokesman Michael J. DeGeorge, so officials cannot say whether any had been used in crimes. ...'

http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/buffaloerie/story/437328.html

I support the program even if it isn't an effective deterrent to crime. This is a good way for people to dispose of weapons that they no longer want or need, and it helps the residents to feel a little safer. We all know that this is not going to change the world and will do very little to deter violent crime.

I remember reading a story about the Virginia Beach / Chesapeake gun buyback a number of years ago. There were two follow-up stories, one where a kid shot his mom for selling his gun, and the other about the police taking several of the purchased guns for personal use or collections. I couldn't find either story online. Do we know what happens to the guns after they are bought? Is there an audit process in place, or are we just expected to trust that these won't be taken by the police then sold at a gun show or private sale for more than the $100 paid to the resident? This is the basis of the story from VA Beach.

I support gun control, and I am also the holder of a concealed carry permit. I have been more diligent about carrying whenever I am downtown, especially after the Habit for Humanity robbery a few years ago. I have no reservations or concerns about using my weapon for self defense or the defense of others. I have pulled my gun only once, and immediately reported it to the police after subduing the 14 year old punk who tried to rob me off Pearl Street a number of years ago. Had he done anything stupid I would have killed him, it is easy as that.

allfit- We can agree there is need for some kind of reasonable gun control but when you threaten to murder a 14 year old "for doing anything stupid" I would hope you mean ONLY as a last resort in defense of your own life.

MVPCarl- your argument is ridiculous and dangerous. The US leads the civilzed world in gun related violence BECAUSE of the sheer number of weapons in circulation. Guns are the way cowards and thugs settle disagreements and arming more people would only increase the violence.

BRL - Self defense is not murder, and I have no idea how old someone may be who threatens my life. If that person happens to be 14, then there will be a dead 14 year old who will be remembered on the front of his crying mother's t-shirt.

I am not saying that I would do this for "doing anything stupid", just brandishing a weapon or putting my life or the life of someone else in danger. If I see a knife, gun, chain, bat, or more than two ganging up, then yes, I will shoot to kill.

PaulBuffalo - I love how you put the party politics spin, as though Bush had anything to do with basic self defense. You really are a tool sometimes!

If I am threatened, then based on my judgment and best interest, yes I will kill someone.

I have a legal right to carry a weapon and to defend myself. I am not looking for trouble like Bernard Goetz, but I am prepared in the event that something happens.

Allfit- though we often disagree I thought you were a resonable and decent person. I agree it is acceptable to act in self defense but your reference to "A dead 14 year old who will be remembered on his crying mothers t-shirt" sounds hateful and bitter.

Gun Contol is a Steady Hand

I agree, it was a little hateful and bitter. I apologize for that.

I am not concerned about the age of an attacker, a 14 year old is just as capable of killing someone as a 24 year old, when they brandish a weapon, it means that they have intent to harm. I have the obligation to defend myself. It is as simple as that.

PaulBuffalo - The Buffalo Police won't respond until after the crime is committed, and then only when they feel like it.

allfit- I can respect your apology, As you are aware I to "shoot from the hip" sometimes. I have managed to live and work in the city for 50 years without the need to carry a weapon and have been in a few situations that I believe could have gone bad had I been armed. Being aware and having some street smarts is more important than having a gun. I would not want to be responsible for the death of a fellow human being even if this person is a thug.

we have the most murders of any industrialized country because of the availability of guns. You take the guns away.. your remove people's ability to kill without guilt. Stabbing, beating etc.. all take a lot more guts and crazines factor than pulling a trigger.

Would you beat a 14 year old to death because he threatened you? No? But it is ok to pull that trigger. Guns change everything and usually for the worse.

So we allow criminals to carry guns by throwing up our hands in futility and saying that this is too hard to control, just like drugs. Then on the other hand we villify the victims of crime for defending themselves against criminals.

When did the criminal become the innocent party here? Why can't someone defend themself against a violent assault by beating or shooting someone to death? If I was in a situation where I was being mugged by a 14 year old who was larger than me, then I would definitely pull out all the stops to defend myself and would pray that I had a gun or something to up the odds in my favor. Too many thugs are carrying guns and feeling that they can get away with assaulting innocent people because they know that the person won't defend themself and that the police probably won't catch them, and if they do catch them then they probably won't have to do time in jail. Did you read the comment from the Police Chief that were posted here last week, even she is disgusted with the revolving door of the courts.

I am with Allfit, if I am being attacked or threatened, I am going to do what I can to survive. I don't have a gun or a carrying permit, but I have given serious thought to getting one, especially after a friend of mine was jumped by 4 kids on Winspear a few weeks ago. They took his wallet and credit cards, money, books, and sense of security, leaving him with a black eye and broken rib. The Police were parked 2 blocks away at Main and Winspear, but they couldn't find anyone involved in the attack, the kids just vanished. My friend is moving because he doesn't feel safe living in his house anymore. All because these 4 kids decided to attack him.

Some will say that it is better that he didn't fight back and that it may have saved his life, but I wonder if the recent robberies in UH or the rapes on campus may have been partially the result of the increased confidence and brazeness of these 4 kids. If they are successful once, then why not try it again, right?

At this point, the Police Department is understaffed, according to recent comments from Chief Berry and others, and crime is increasing. What is wrong with citizens protecting themselves? It might make a criminal think twice before doing something "stupid".

I say we just get rid of guns, if nobody could have one it might make it a little more difficult to get a hold of or to get shot by one. While there are guns there will be people getting shot by guns, simple as that.

I am not against defending oneself but what if that friend had a gun on him, would it have deterred for the four people away? By the time they get to you its just about too late. After that they take your gun and use it on someone else or worse. On you.

I don't think many people have guts or the responsibility needed to carry a weapon. Not that some can't do it responsibly and confidently but if someone comes up to you from behind and or gets the surprise on your, odds are any weapon you have will no longer be in your control after that situation further fueling the problem because now the bad guys have one.

How many guns are stolen from people's homes each year. Those are the guns that come back in crimes.

I agree that there is no easy fix.. hence we are still plagued with this problem (a problem many other countries don't have) We are in a cycle of defense, violence and self interest. I really have no idea how to fix it but I don't think that putting more guns out there would solve anything.

Sbrof - You present a lot of 'what-ifs'; let's talk about what we know.

If you are confronted by 4 threatening men, there is only a slight chance that you can do anything to defend yourself without a weapon. We are talking Chuck Norris might be able to handle it with his extra fist. If you are concerned about self-preservation in a situation such as the one described above, then a weapon is required. I agree that not everyone should or could carry a firearm, it takes a lot of training and focus to be able to handle a weapon in a tense situation like the one described above. Just having it on you is not enough, if someone is carrying for self-protection then they need to be able to use it in self-defense. If put in a situation where I had to use deadly force, I am prepared to do so. That is not to say that I would always do so, or that I am a maniac looking for trouble, in most cases I am going to avoid trouble at all costs. Occasionally there is no alternative.

About two years ago I was confronted by two men in their late 20s or early 30s who approached me as I was walking towards my car. The one guy asked me some inane question and I quickly turned to look at the other to see what he was doing to find that he was quickly moving towards me from my right. The man who asked the questions started moving towards me from my left, but not as quickly. I took a few steps back to gain perspective and to give myself an out, which I took. I had my .38 with me, but didn't have to use it. I had one hand on it while I used to other to pull my money out of my pocket. I got away from the situation without being touched, and about $45.00 poorer. I was shaking when I got in my car and could barely call 911 while I drove away. The 911 dispatcher asked me if I was hurt and if I was safely in my car, when I explained that I was alright and that I was driving, she said "good, keep driving, we'll send a car out to look for the men who robbed you" and then said goodbye and disconnected the call. She never asked for a description or even for my location.

Would I have handled that differently today, probably not. I was safe and didn't have to resort to force, but it was there if I needed it. If one of those men had continued to approach as I was talking to him, then I probably would have pulled my gun as I was definitely being threatened.

had a very simillar encounter. I was working on my house (vacant at the time) and walking home about 11:30 pm to my my other house about two blocks away. Two guys (white ) were walking towards me when they spilt apart and one went behind me setting me up for the push and knock down routine. Being alert and already thinking these guys were trouble I turned quickly and pushed the guy behind me and ran like a girl. I was just glad to have gotten away but it shook me up because this happened in MY neighborhood . My street smarts were more effective than if I would have a gun since once surprised and down it would be difficult to react. I will say that I did have a utility knife in my pocket that I used to work on the house and carried as a weapon of last resort .

ncoli- Yes you are right, I should correct, I have lived in the city for about 45 years

PaulBuffalo - I am not one to 'wear' a pistol in Dirty Harry fashion, typically it is concealed in my coat pocket holster, a waistband holster, or some other inconspicuous manner. I do a lot of volunteer work with students and families all over Buffalo; but very often on the East Side. Some of my volunteer work involves mediation and crisis counseling with at risk and affiliated teenagers, so the situations can get very tense. I have never had a problem with any of the families that I work with, but on a few occasions I have been mistaken for a probation or parole officer; and have also been confronted by gang members as I am leaving a house. I have not come close to using my gun in any of these situation, but it does give me piece of mind that I could defend myself if things did get ugly.

I have never felt threatened or afraid with the families that I work with, no matter how tense things may become. It is the community that can gather outside when they hear arguments and think that I may be the cause of the problems. This is where I have had trouble in the past, but my training has enabled me to keep myself calm and diffuse the situation before it escalates. I have the pistol as a last resort.

There have been times when I have had my hand on my gun as I work through a situation, like the one described above, but those are rare occurrences.

sorry, sent to soon...

I carry for protection, in the event that something happens. There is no action taken on my part unless provoked and pushed to the point that there is no alternative. As stated above, this is a last resort.

As a public service question: How many parent's educate their children on basic gun safety as they are growing up? We teach our children how to behave safely around stoves and swimming pools, but most parents do not educate their children on how to handle a situation where they encounter a gun. There are two good videos available at the Public Library, each about 20 minutes in length, that teach children what to do in this situation. Keep in mind that the majority of accidental shootings by children are the result of curiosity, and most happen at a friend's or relative's house that is outside of the parent's control.

I believe that it is in everyone's best interest to understand basic gun safety, especially if children are involved. Children need to know to leave the gun alone and find an adult, and the adult needs to know how to handle and disarm the firearm to ensure that everyone is safe. Ignoring the issue or saying "well I don't allow guns in the house" is not enough to keep your children safe. Children should understand gun safety in the same way that they understand pool safety or "stranger danger". Unfortunately, this is not a subject that is discussed in schools and is often ignored by parents.

A little education goes a long way toward preventing accidents. Thanks for listening!

Pepper spray is a safe alternative to a gun. The high quality versions are reliable, effective, easy to conceal and operate. While staying out in Montana I picked up a bear pepper spray that could easily take down 4-5 people in one good blast. My wife knows how to use it and my kids know enough to leave it alone. I think for the average person this is more user friendly and MUCH safer method of self defense.

BRL - Pepper sprays are not an alternative to a gun in terms of self-defense. The pepper spray often gives a false sense of security and protection, and you will find in research that there are many people who are not disabled or delayed by the use of pepper spray.

Pepper spray is safer for the criminal, not the victim, and in many cases it can quickly escalate a bad situation.

I believe that the only available alternative to deadly force (gun) is the debilitating force of a tazer. Unfortunately, these are not commercially available to the average citizen and are available only to the police and military. The hand-held tazers are also not an effective deterrent against many people, so let's not even go there.

In a truly threatening situation, where your life is in jeopardy, you do not want to leave your survival up to chance and circumstance. There are situations where deadly force may be best, and like I said in my first comment, it is an effective deterrent to crime and helped me to subdue the 14 year old punk who attacked me off Pearl Street (btw, he was around 6'1" tall and 210 lbs). Had he continued to come after me, I would have shot him, had he pulled a gun or knife, I would have killed him. I am not planning on pulling my gun ever again, but I am prepared to use it if I do. I would not want to risk using pepper spray in that situation, because there was no safe exit and no one around me to help.

I really hope your wife doesn't feel that she is safe with the pepper spray, I can put her in touch with a friend who sprayed the entire can into the eyes of the guy who wound up raping and beating her. It only served to piss him off and make him more aggressive. That is a sad but true story of a social worker who I worked with in Pennsylvania, she was attacked by a client's boyfriend during a home visit. The client left the house while it was happening and returned an hour later without calling the police or attempting to help. The State refused to allow social workers, home care workers, and outreach workers, to carry firearms. They said the job wasn't dangerous enough to warrant it. That law was changed about 15 years ago, due in part to the rape of my friend. A sad but true story.

Guns aren't for everyone, and like I stated above, it is a great program for those who would like to rid themselves of the firearms in their house. I believe in gun control, gun training, and tracking of firearms. I also believe in my right to protect myself.

You are missing the bigger picture here. Guns are not going to stop crime or violence that is caused by social and economic inequities. People are desperate for the basic necessities of life and they will have to do whatever it takes to survive. You may feel that the gun is equalizing the equation on your end but the fact that the scales are tipped so far in your favor on the other issues is at the root of this problem.

Address the lack of economic opportunities and create a fair and equitable distribution of wealth and then we will see a reduction in violence on the streets.

allfit- Pepper spray from K-mart or the local hardware store might not be effective but the high quality versions are effective. (Police departments seem to think so). I have played with the bear type I refered to and can assure you they are effective (designed for use against grizzly bears). I agree this is not the perfect solution but neither is a gun. A gun may not have helped change the outcome of the tragic story of your friend and could have easily been used against her.

Blackrocklifer - The pepper spray that you purchased is probably illegal to carry in NYS. Pepper spray is a regulated and controlled substance in NYS, per State law it must be purchased in person from a licensed NYS dealer (NY Penal Law 265.20 14 (a)) and the seller must maintain a record of this purchase. Using pepper sprays and other deterrents from out of state is illegal and may result in charges brought against the user of the spray. The sprays that are legally available in NYS are relatively weak when compared to the spray that you purchased for bear attacks.

Given the situation with my friend, a gun probably would have helped her, as she attempted to escape the situation several times but was consistently overpowered by her assailant. Had she had the opportunity to defend herself after gaining distance from her attacker, then I believe that she could have gained control of the situation either through the intimidation from the gun or use of the gun.

The use of a victim's gun against the victim rarely happens, especially in situations such as these.

Bini- I agree poverty is no excuse for violence and the thugs are not robbing people to buy food. I also agree with Quijibos statement "address the lack of economic opportunities and create a fair and equitable distribution of wealth aqnd then we will see a reduction of violence on the streets.