Buffalo Rising Online

Uniforms? Until the real issue, concentration of the poor in city schools is addressed little can or will change.

Absolutely agree Blackrocklifer. A more equitable distribution of wealth will effectively eliminate the great class divide that exists in America and especially in Buffalo. Our government must step in to end the gross injustice that exists due to lack of opportunity and lack of ability of our least fortunate citizens.

I completely support Barack Obama's campaign promise to increase taxes on the wealthy and redirect the proceeds from this tax to the least fortunate citizens. Most rich have gotten rich either through unjust inheritance or off the backs of their employees. The wealthy are the corrupt businessmen and greedy industrialists who are only looking out for themselves. We need leaders like Barack Obama to look out for the rest of the citizens to ensure that the exploitation by the greedy rich is not perpatuated.

The inequalities hurt us all, we have unfortunate children who are born into poverty and will remain in poverty their entire lives. They did not ask to be born into this unfortunate position and their parents would never choose this life for them, but yet we have millions of children who are lost in a world that does not offer them opportunity and refuses to acknowledge their needs. We need to redistribute wealth to ensure that these unfortunate children receive the life that they deserve, it is the just thing to do.

I think Blackrocklifer and Colin are on the right track here and we should listen to them. They have a very progressive and enlightened perspective that could truly make a difference for our most deserved citizens.

galaxjay- unfortunate children are "born into it" too, unjust, don't you think?

Galaxyjay - Yes, no one is truly wealthy as long as there are fellow citizens suffering in poverty.

I am not preaching communism, I am discussing the basic tenants of common decency and respect for all men. Too many of the wealthy are born into money that is gained off the hard work of others. Too many are hoarding their wealth for superficial gains while their fellow citizens are suffering and struggling for basic survival.

There is no reason for the gross separation of classes that exists today. The goal is to elevate the status of the least fortunate among us by distributing wealth from the greedy to the needy. The separation of classes may exist but it should not be as extreme as it is today.

Ouijibo, let's start with your money first. I take checks.

If the redistribution of wealth is at the heart of this problem, then I have a solution: prior to providing any form of social welfare to the poor, require attendance at training classes designed to teach mainstream etiquette, the fundamentals of our shared language, and basic interview skills...also some sort of diorama or interpretive dance to hit home the point that having more children will only serve to dilute your already limited wealth. Or is that too severe? Perhaps I'll write to Miss Manners after I finish crying about the taxes paid out of my very limited net worth.

taking money from the rich to give to the poor motivates nobody. and if i'm not mistaken the inheritance tax is already something astronomical like 45 percent over $3 million.

There already is a distribution of wealth set in place in NY, it's called "welfare", "heap" "food stamps" and "medicare".

Redistribution of wealth does not mean taking from the rich and giving to the poor but paying workers a living wage and reversing the tax policies that have resulted in the economic meltdown we are experiencing.

Onestarmartin - Giving a pittance in charity is not the same as an equitable distribution of wealth. No one is saying that someone who earns $150,000 per year needs to give $100,000 of it to be shared by two others so they all earn $50,000. What we are saying is that the person who earns $150,000 a year needs to help those who lack the ability to earn enough to sustain a reasonable living. That instead of taxing the person who earns $150,000 at the same level as someone who earns $50,000, we need to fix the system. We need to eliminate taxes for the lowest 1/3rd, reduce taxes for the next 1/3rd and make up the difference with the top 1/3rd. The top 1/3rd are taking away from everyone else.

Biniszkiewicz - you are correct that is a food chain, a dog-eat-dog food chain where the rich feast off the labors of the poor, and then have the audacity to say that the problem with the poor is that they are not rich.

The government needs to step in to keep personal and corporate greed in check, this is the root of the problems in America. As Blackrocklifer says, the problem is with the tax policies, these tax policies are nothing more than exceptions to the rules for the rich. Barach Obama has made promises to eliminate these loopholes and tax breaks, he is on the side of the majority of Americans instead of just the wealthiest third. It is about time that we had a President who was sensitive to the needs of the weakest and most deserving among us, someone who has been poor and knows what it takes to survive and how to improve life with the help of government services.

Ncoli - are there any other stereotypes and misconceptions that you would like to throw around? Maybe say that everyone on welfare is addicted to drugs or that they are all just lazy?

I hope that you can see past the snobby defenses that you just gave us and understand that there is a more progressive school of thought that corrects some of these issues instead of just thumbing our noses at them and wishing that they will go away.

You should read Barack Obama's campaign platform, you might learn something about how to treat others.

ncoli- I have not lived in Black Rock for my entire life but choose to come back to the place my family has lived for generations. I am fortunate to have traveled all over this country not as a tourist but by train,bike,canoe,hitchiking and even on foot. I have seen the poverty and interacted with the people that most ignore and my opinions are formed from that experience. Maybe you could develop a little empathy if you looked past your own preconceived notions and stop blaming children for being born poor.

i am sympathetic to well meaning people who end up in awful situations and understand they need a little help getting back on track. My problem is with the lazy people who make awful decisions and leech off of society. Their freebies should be ended. Every able bodied person in America is afforded opportunity, what they choose to do with it is their perogative. In many cases, poverty is a choice... and funding it just perpetuates the problem. Take all of that 1st of the month money and use it to make quailty education and higher education a right for all and we'll be in a much better place. Demanding more money from people who work hard in order to fund programs to make life comfortable for people who contribute absolutely nothing is just stupid and self-defeating.

James- I don't think anyone is suggesting we give people money for doing nothing but that we give equal opportunity for all to be paid a fair amount and share the wealth that all have a part in creating.

Crisa - I absolutely agree with your last statement: " feel that every child born deserves the best education possible uniformly according to each child's ability and it is up to all of us and government to see to it that is done totally irregardless of whatever else each child's life situation might entail--absolutely."

This is a universal tenant for all issues, not just education.

Parental involvement will go a lot further in helping students achieve than throwing money at the problem. That's just what the uniform initiatives are helping to promote.

Blackrocklifer - I feel that we are on the same page on everything here. Workers are the lifeblood of any organization, without their effort and input the company would surely fail. The owner and executives should receive additional compensation for their roles; however that compensation should be set in much the same way that professional sports salaries are capped to ensure fair and equitable treatment for all.

Workers have been exploited for the labors without getting their just compensation for too long. Workers are forced to band together to show unity in order to get the basic pittance that the owners and "leaders" are willing to part with, it is a struggle just to get the basics with little more. This is one reason that Unions are so important to the infrastructure and well being of America, they give the worker a voice in an otherwise one-sided and unchecked relationship. I am glad that the Federal Government is planning on stepping in to assist workers, Barack Obama's plan for the future specifically details plans to stop companies from participating in union busting programs like offshoring.

The wealth should be shared across the board, the manager of a department should not drive a sports car while his employees are scraping together change for the bus. It is just not right, and we need the goverment to help us fix it. Obama in '08.

coolrobc- I agree parental involvement is probably the most important part of education but if "throwing money at the problem" doesn't help than why do most suburban districts continue to do just that.

Blackrocklifer - I suggest you take a trip to the suburbs to learn what they are about, who lives there, etc. You really are making some broad assumptions that we usually condemn suburbanites for making about the city.

Suburbanites use the same generalizations and misconceptions about the city all the time, and it creates animosity and contempt where we should see unity and collaboration. You are driving the same points from the other side of the aisle. It is obvious that you dislike the suburbs as much as Chris69 dislikes Muriel Howard and the 33; but you don't have to blame them for every issue that exists in the city.

Your neighborhood needs help, focus on that instead of playing the victim to the suburbs.

BTW, the Buffalo Public Schools is more expensive per pupil than any of the suburban schools, they spend more and they get less in return. So throwing money at the problem doesn't seem to be working for Buffalo, but effective administration seems to be working well for many of the suburbs. Go figure.

I am sure that this is somehow related to the Republicans or racism, I am waiting for your spin on this.

allfit- I have admitted to "pushing the envelope" at times and do so to provoke discussion and as a balance to the overwhelming anti city attitude in WNY. I agree we should work with our neighbors but few if any suburban muncipalities have any record of cooperating with Buffalo. Many regularly work against the city and even Erie county goverment acts like we are a poor stepchild. The cost per pupil in the buffalo Public Schools is $9,928 WHEN EXCLUDING SPECIAL EDUCATION. I beleive thats puts Buffalo near the bottom in WNY. Special ed and poverty go hand in hand and Buffalo has plenty of both. Again I ask, If throwing more money at schools does not work then why to most suburbs do it?

Well let's back out special ed and other programming from all schools and look at this on par. I would also like to see the City of Buffalo's track record in regards to their work with the suburbs, what were they doing to develop a regional approach prior to the desperation and financial crisis that the city is in today?

Quijibo - ¨Redistribution of Wealth¨ Are you kidding me, we live in a capitalist country, not communist, here you get what you work for, if you don´t do anything you get or should not get anything. Yeah, let´s take money from people that work their tail off and give it to someone that does nothing, that makes sense. Why don´t you move to Russia or Venezuela or maybe Cuba and see how your great ´redistribution of wealth´works. What world do you live in?

Quijibo - You are living in a dream world if you think Obama is some robin hood that is going to create equality in the work place, do you honestly believe that he or anyone could accomplish that? The job of the president is not to meddle in private business so corporations should be able to run their business as they see fit. Unbelievable. You sound like a cry baby that believes they deserve something for nothing and you are always looking for a hand out from the government, get over it, stop looking for a hand out and make your own life.

TroyT- Have you read a paper or watched the news lately? The ideology you expound has failed resulting in the collapse of our economy. The redistribution of wealth UPWARDS is what you should be outraged about.

BlackRocklifer- and what would you propose, we take hard earned money from those that earned it and give it to those that sit on their you know what and don´t do anything? Did you ever think that if more people worked a little harder to make something out of themselves then we wouldn´t need a redistribution of wealth as you believe? You sound like someone on the lower rung of the ladder waiting for some crumbs to drop from the top instead of climbing up a little. Has your supposed ideology worked anymore, please cite some real examples, real countries, because I don´t believe that fantasy land exists. I would love to hear about this fair distribution of wealth place that you believe exists somewhere, please shine some of your great wisdom on the rest of us if you would be so kind.

TroyT- Redistribution of wealth means paying a decent wage to all, not " giving people money to sit on their you know what". And no I am not " on the lower rung of the ladder" but have worked hard my entire life and earn a good living as an engineer. Some examples of where fair distributiion of wealth has succeeded, Just about any country in western europe where the standard of living is far above that of America.

blackrocklifer - have you ever been to Europe? I have and this utopia you think you know about isn´t there. An average salary for a university graudate in europe is around $12,000. Most of the money and business there is from old money. Europe is about the worst example possible of redistribution of wealth, those that have had money there still have it from hundreds of years ago and those that never did still don´t in most cases. Maybe you didn´t see the recent news about the economic paradise of spain that is so bad economically that they are paying immigrants to leave. I rather not live in Europe where 40% of my wages get taken in taxes, I´ll pass.

You should travel a bit, spend some time in Latin America or Europe and you will realize that for all it´s supposed faults there is no country even close to the US that offers the ability for anyone, from any background or economic status to become anything they want. You get what you work for in this country, that´s why it´s the greatest country in the world. I have lived in Mexico for the past few years running a business and if you´re not getting robbed, assaulted or broken in to you might be able to make a living. It really irks me when americans cry about how tough and unfair it is as if it were actually that bad.

TroyT-Most Western Europeans are more educated, healthier, live longer, have more time off to spend with families, and enjoy an overall higher standard of living. America is a great country but we can do better.

BlackRockLifer - The US has a populaion of 300 million, most Western European countries are more like the size of NY, not really fair comparisons, with our population there will inevitably be disparities, just like in Russia or China or Brazil or Mexico, it´s just not possible for everyone to be equal with that many people.

Seems like you are talking more about cultural differences at this point. Your points are all valid about western europe as being more educated (small countries, easier to manage), healthier (structure of cities means more people walk) and spend more time with families (cultural difference). The cultural make up of the US is different, a country built upon a hungry entrepreneur that wants to be successful, will do whatever it takes to be successful and for the most part values material possessions over anything else (not everyone but a generalization). We are not a sit back, take 5 weeks of vacation every summer kind of culture. Would I love to vacation or spend months in Europe, absolutely, do I want to start a business there or do I believe I would have more opportunity to be successful there, not really. The US will probably never have the European culture or attitude, their two different worlds.

Troy T and Target - I am not saying that the rich should give up everything to the poor, but as Blackrocklifer says, there needs to be a more equitable distribution of wealth. This comes from the development of jobs that offer a living wage and above. It is unjust and unfair for CEOs to make millions of dollars off the backs of their workers, while those same workers struggle to survive on their minimum wage earnings.

There is no perfect system, but we know that the current system is not working. The system proposed by Barack Obama creates a more equitable distribution of wealth for all. Those who have the ability to afford to support others should, that is a moral imperative. You may want to look at the campaign platform for Barack Obama and Joe Biden to see how an enlightened politician will lead this country into a better age for all.

We will do better under the Obama administration. Some of the greediest may not like to give up a little bit of the lot that they have to make the lives of others a little better. This is one of the problems with greed, it blinds people to the morality that should guide us to a more enlightened existence.

TroyT- I agree the size of the US is hard to compare with European countries but "valuing material possessions" is nothing to be proud of and does not lead to true happiness.

Quijibo - I don´t think Obama´s plans talk about this widespread distribution like you are talking about, plus it won´t happen, mark my words. I don´t understand why you are looking to the government for all these answers, to cure all these supposed ills you talk about. Why is it unfair for a CEO or a company owner that had an idea, created a business and employs thousands of people to make millions of dollars? How is that wrong? Your ideas are really out of whack and I think you are living in the wrong country because we are not communist or socialist nor will we ever be.

What will you say when your hero Obama loses? Will your life end, will you quit your job, will you lose all hope, will you give up if someone doesn´t come to your rescue? Instead of playing a victim you should try something else.

TroyT After the collapse of wall street and the taxpayer bailout of the so called "FREE" market you might consider re-evaluating your own ideas

TroyT - Why would I run away and quit my job if the political candidate that I support loses? This is not rational thinking. I support Barack Obama and his progressive political ideals, he will provide a much needed relief to 30 years of oppressive cold war politics. It is about time that we move our country ahead to embrace a more civilized and enlightened culture. We will see the change in capitalism just as we saw a change in communism in the 90s; the entire world is moving closer together and America will be left behind if we don't change our antiquated ways of thinking.

I am not convinced that you have taken the time to review Obama's progressive ideas on the economy, fiscal responsibility, poverty, taxes, business, health care, and worker's rights. Take a look at his platform and you will see what we are talking about.

I am definitely not a victim, nor do I play one on TV. I do, however, support opportunities for the less fortunate and our struggling middle class. If that makes me a victim, then so be it.

How so? Your tax dollars will go for one thing or the other, you don´t get to chance to choose nor will you ever so does it really matter where it goes? My life will not be affected either way, has your life drastically changed in the past week?? It´s the whole attitude that I don´t get that the government should be the saviour yet no matter what they do you will complain so what´s the point? I suppose that the millions of people that took out loans they knew they could never pay for have no fault in this, it´s only the big bad corporations faults, there is a lot of blame to go around for the current economic problems and a very large portion of that lies with people defaulting on their loans.

TroyT- The meltdown that we are experiencing is the result of deregulation and the basic human weakness of GREED. The Republican legacy can be summed up with PRIVATIZE PROFIT and SOCIALIZE LOSS.

And the Democratic legacy will be Eliminate Profit and Socialize everything!

If you see yourself part of the middle-class/working-class and you're living in Buffalo, New York why would you have any affinity to the Republican agenda?

"In this topic, I said that I wish that all kids could be equally educated but that can't happen. It can't happen because this still is a free country."

This is silly. Federalizing education and equalizing it wouldn't threaten our freedom.

'Federalizing education and equalizing it wouldn't threaten our freedom.'

Finally, a real plan. Sounds sort of like H.U.D., except the feds would provide equalized high quality schools instead of equalized high quality housing. Can't miss!

today 8:17am BRM Q&A with Joy McDuffie- "Studies have shown that the quality of a child's education is affected by the quality of the child environment" I agree

atwater --

I never said that was my plan. I was just pointing out that crisa's talk of the government seizing our children was a bit much.

We discuss public programs as if we have exhausted every option and failure is inevitable. Effective strategies should evolve- I don't see why we should expect every program to become "like H.U.D".

Oh I didn't say it's your plan, Colin. Besides, the way things are going lately it's probably only a matter of time before Joe Biden blurts out some random sentences that happen to suggest it one of these days anyhow, whether he favors it or not.

davvid - my HUD remark was just harassing Colin a little there. I didn't figure he was seriously pushing to fully federalize/equalize eduction - whatever that would mean. He usually doesn't go quite that far.

By the way, according to the new Open Book NY web site (an amazing resource jus