Panhandling

Panhandling

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The City of Buffalo, in an attempt to curb aggressive panhandling, has amended Chapter 317 of the city code.

Peter Savage, the city attorney who wrote the amendment stated, "My challenge was to come up with something that is within the confines of the Constitution." Savage further explained that not unlike seeking donations or votes, panhandling falls under the cloak of free speech.

The amendment, however, makes special reference to the act of "aggressively" panhandling, as well as panhandling in certain areas. So-called "Friendly" panhandling is still allowable and protected under constitutional law.

As put forth in the document:

The Common Council finds that aggressive acts associated with solicitation tend to interfere with the free flow of pedestrian and vehicular traffic and intimidate persons in public places, and can lead to disruption and disorder in public places. Aggressive acts can also cause persons to avoid public places and to lead to declining patronage of commercial establishments and tourism. The Common Council further finds that solicitation in certain public places is inconsistent with the use of those places, is inherently intimidating, targets persons who are captive audiences or constitutes an invasion of privacy as persons are not able to simply move on if they do not wish to speak to the person soliciting. Solicitation in proximity to bank entrances or check-cashing businesses or automated teller machines is inherently intimidating and should be restricted. This legislation is intended to promote the health safety and welfare of the citizens and visitors to the City of Buffalo.

Aggressive panhandling is defined as having any physical contact, following, coming within five feet of a person who has refused solicitation, blocking a pathway, using language that would cause fear, and an aggressive initial approach for the purpose of soliciting.

Places that are off limits are automatic teller machines, all banks, parking garages, ramps, and municipal lots; and any government owned building, bridge, park, school, cemetery or street.

Fines will range between $25 and $250, second convictions within a year will bring up to 15 days of imprisonment, and any judge may impose an alternative such as community service in place of a fine.

digulios

What Others Have To Say

  1. jstraubinger

    0 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 14:20

    What about more than 2 convictions within a year? Will there be a longer period of incarceration? And why is every panhandler starting at zero-Some of these folks are well known to a lot of people who work downtown for their aggressiveness and obnoxiousness. They'll test this ordinance immediately. Will any prior convictions influence their sentencing? And what about those who are mentally ill?

    I think this is a nice gesture but unless the manpower is made available to strictly enforce this ordinance all the time, its impact on panhandling will be minimal.

  2. scooter

    0 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 14:23

    Will the police officers be getting OUT of their car to ENFORCE this?

    Because if not.....then whats the point.

  3. DowntownBizOwner

    0 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 14:58

    Part of the reason I am moving my software company off of Chippewa (to the new Rocco buildings) is the overwhelming number of panhandlers and shady characters in this area (it's obviously not the only reason). Tourette's guy, shoe shine guy, the army of bottle collectors and the likes really make it crap to have clients come down here for meetings. Many of my employees cars have been damaged in the Pearl/Chip lot recently too.

    They should close the Chippewa hotel, not pass useless laws that won't be enforced.

  4. emiller28

    4 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 15:28

    There should be a ZERO tolerance panhandlers law, I have worked for everything I have ever had and dont see why anyone should be able to ask and bother us working poeple for money when they are to lazzy or messed up to work for the money themselves. I have one simple answer anytime I'm asked for money, "NO, I worked for my money"

  5. Aloha

    0 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 15:34

    DowntownBizOwner, Even that I know exactly who you mean by "Tourettes guy" and "Shoeshine guy" illustrates your point. These guys are around and in your face so much that they can be identified by their common nicknames. And that's being around WAY too much in my opinion. I hate to have these guys, who are strangers to me, so much in my consciousness...and they don't have the right to force their way there.

  6. MRodgers

    4 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 16:40

    Amazing that Tourettes Guy and Shoeshine Guy have universal names - we all call them that! Both these individuals are constantly in the WV and are being watched since they "self-medicate." The Chip Hotel has been sold and I hear that it should be closing down soon. The WVRG will make contact with the organizations avaialble to assist in the current tenants' moving to more suitable housing - and that includes clinical analysis to determine the proper housing.

    We have the same issue with the new rooming house legislation. Seems there's a glitch in the "system" at City Hall as far as the notification of current licensees. But, believe me, we are on their butts about it.

    I know it's tiring and trying, but if there are a few out there that don't mind fighting the good fight and keeping government accountable, we can get these enforcement issues addressed, and we will. No pretty dreaming here - let's just do it. And we can by organizing and we will...........

    As far as Shoeshine and Tourette's, tell them you'll sic the B*tch from Johnson Park on 'em.

  7. MRodgers

    8 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 16:41

    One more thing - don;t give anyone ANY money - not even if they seem placid. If they're hungry - buy them a sandwich. If they need transpportation, tell them to go to the Traveler's Aid at the Transpo Center on Division.

  8. Aloha

    0 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 17:11

    I heard that Traveler's Aid Society no longer offers help, went out of business, or is otherwise not a good resource for helping these "stranded" people. Is this true, or is this rumor? If it's still a viable option, I'd like to know more about it. It's hard to recommend something to someone without knowing what you're talking about.

  9. Aloha

    0 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 17:13

    P.S. I remember when "Bitch" was a derogatory term. I hate to see people pleased with themselves for being one.

  10. hippiegrrl

    3 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 17:17

    my only question is have you ever tried to stop and talk to any of these people on the street? have you ever once tried to learn about them as individual human beings or do you all just walk by and tell them the standard response of "get a job" when they ask for money? i have lived downtown for 6 years now and know the fellas that panhandle pretty well. most of them don't ask me for money anymore because they recongnize me as someone who is often in the neighborhood. not that this will help you in any way, since you have basically written these individuals off as common "bums". many of the people who are asking for money on the streets are not able to get steady work. some are veterans with injuries that prevent them from working & some are have mental issues that they cannot afford to take care of for lack of funds/insurance.

    when i was going to buff state (in the 90's) there was a lady that used to sleep in the basement of rockwell hall. we would come in in the morning to start classes and she would be fast asleep on the couch. i asked her about her situation and found out that they had released her from the psych centre and she had nowhere to go. too often, this may be the case with the homeless.

    i understand that you may be weary of having people ask you for money on the street, but if you are going to complain about it i hope you are at least trying to do something charitable to help the situation. if you don't give them money directly, at least give to an organization that helps people get off the street. volunteer your time at a soup kitchen. do something to give back. don't just sit on your ass and type about how annoyed you are by "those people" - get out there and help them!!!

  11. MRodgers

    4 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 17:43

    hippiegirl, first off, there are many deserving persons out there - I miss the "drummer" he was a Viet Nam vet that, before his injuries, was a local hs art teacher. The professor is gone, too. But, to provide cash when that cash is utilized by shoeshine and tourettes guy for crack is doing them more harm than good. Please note my speech at this link http://wvrg-buffalo.blogspot.com given at the Buffalo Urban Center's Sleep Out that was very poorly attended since Buffalo Old Home Week was being "celebrated" on the same night.

    One of the most horrific issues in this city and others around the US is the rooming houses that have no supprtive services for their tenants that are referred by social service agencies. Read the post regarding the rooming house legislation and you'll see the first step in assuring tenants rights to these individuals who have been brutalized by the system.

    No, hippiegirl, most folks are not against those who need assistance. But, thse who utilize the street system to obtain a quick high have to be stopped so they reach out for the services that you have mentioned. As far as soup kitchens, did you read that Darrell from Friends of the Night People was just undergoing trial for his absconding with over $44K of donations? If you want to get involved, ask the tough questions. Ask where every dollar goes and ask to see the books. Then make the decision as to where you wish to donate your time and money to assure the folks that need the help are truly getting it.

  12. QuickFix

    3 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 18:08

    Get COPS ON FOOT (MAIN STREET PEDESTRIAN MALL for starters) and KICK THESE BUMS OUT!!! If Detroit is having cops on foot and bike in their Downtown now, WHY CAN'T good ol' Buffalo? I'm so sick of hearing "their just people" CRAP. If I can WORK my a&& off to support myself, THEY CAN TOO! It's not our fault they became lazy or fell into drugs, and if they are injured, they're are ways to collect money for that. It's not up to us. Do what Rudy did to clean up NYC .....GET COPS OUT THERE!!!!! Throw the bums out!

  13. Dasein

    1 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 20:26

    All this legislation is worthless without enforcement. With the parole office opening on Main St. perhaps that would justify a couple of extra cops to patrol the area. Speaking of which, anyone know what's up with that building? Construction seems to have stalled.

  14. kelly

    2 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 21:13

    So what happens when they try and get, say, Jackson in Allentown with a fine? He's so fried from all the crack that he can't even coherently ask for money anymore, just holds his hand out and mutters nonsense. How is the law even explained to someone that is so mentally devastated from the addiction that made him into a panhandler in the first place? Shoot, how are they supposed to pay the fine?

    I liked the idea at first, but the more I think about it, the more of a waste of time it seems. It doesn't sound like it would be a huge deterrent, and shoot, even if fined they won't be able to pay. If they had the cash they wouldn't be begging in the first place. But, like everyone says, even this is worthless without cops out there watching.

  15. dude

    3 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 21:30

    The city should invest some money into buying each bum a one-way bus ticket to Charlotte.

  16. RDRNR

    0 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 21:50

    The Common Council passed this anti-panhandling resolution in mid-April. It was on TV and in the newspaper. Why are you just posting it now?

    Also, it doesn't become a law until the mayor signs it....which he has not.

  17. MRodgers

    3 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 22:18

    Kelly, once the enforcement occurs, and believe me, there are cops out there chomping at the bit to enforce it, certain panhandlers will be identified as those who need to appear at Judge Russell's Drug Court. Russell can then sentance for rehabilitation after clinical review, otherwise known as a forensic. We had one guy who we demanded a forensic on. Fortunately, his brother also joined forces with us and the man is now in rehab in Dunkirk without day passes. It was found that his schizophrenia was exacerbated by his crack habit. Now, his brother, who we still remain in contact with, states he is doing well and back on the meds he neglected to take and is off the crack.

    RDRNR, I believe that after a pass by the Common Council, the law goes into effect after so many days with or without the mayor's signature. And, as posted, this may have happened or the mayor might have signed it since the article says that the charter has been amended to reflect the law in Chapter 317. The actual amendment online at the city's website should be made soon. As it was explained to me, this change is done by an outside firm and it takes a few weeks for the online revision to be made. Therefore, this article was probably published due to the actual amendment of the charter, and not as a report on the Common Council resolution back in April.

  18. MisterChips

    2 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 22:46

    Hey, can this ordinance be used against aggressive evangelicals with bullhorns? I was stopped at a Main Street corner on my bike and one came up to me and tried to engage me. I politely replied, "No, thank you," and he threatened me with eternal damnation. I politely replied, "No, thank you" again and he got even angrier. Good thing the light changed and I could get away before he was screaming was in my face.

    I'll take annoying panhandlers over self-righteous Christians anyday.

  19. Auburner

    0 ratings12345
    May 8th 2007, 23:47

    I dont know about you but I am heading door to door on Nottingham! Someone wants to get rid of me fast!

  20. QuickFix

    0 ratings12345
    May 9th 2007, 01:21

    I can't stand those freakin Bible Beaters either, Mr. Chips. When ever the weather is nice, they all just take over Main Street like a cult. Passing out cards, trying to stop people and tell them about God or hold a Bible and scream bs at everyone walking by. Is this really Buffalo or Birmingham? I feel like we are in some back woods southern town some days.

  21. QuickFix

    0 ratings12345
    May 9th 2007, 01:23

    Also the mayor wants the control board to leave. Does this mean we have money to HIRE MORE COPS? So we can FINALLY get some security ON FOOT?

  22. Jet2Vegas

    0 ratings12345
    May 9th 2007, 01:59

    I MUST SAY, THEY ARE QUITE ANNOYING. BUT THERE IS ONE GUY IN PARTICULAR WHO AFTER BEING ON CHIPPEWA NOW OVER 10 YEARS I DO LIKE AND RESPECT...I BELIEVE HE IS THE BIKE GUY OR THE GUY ON THE BIKE. I GIVE HIM A $10 SPOT EVERY TIME IM OUT PARTYING AND HE WATCHES MY CAR FOR ME. HES BEEN DOING IT FOR OVER 6 YEARS NOW AND I DO APPRECIATE IT. SO ARREST ALL THE OTHERS, BUT DONT TAKE MY CAR GUY AWAY!!!LOL

  23. Genghis

    0 ratings12345
    May 9th 2007, 09:58

    Why would a homeless person live in a city where it's cold and snowy 6 months out of the year anyhow? I mean, wouldn't it make sense for them to hop on a freight train and move to miami or something? This may sound callous, but if we facilitated one way trips to warmer climates, maybe the homeless problem would be abated. We could even make sure there's suitable charity arrangements when they get there. Of course Miami might object, but that's assuming they'd find out...

  24. coolrobc

    0 ratings12345
    May 9th 2007, 10:19

    Genghis,

    Not all panhandlers are homeless, and not all homeless are panhandlers.

  25. DJK

    0 ratings12345
    May 9th 2007, 12:57

    Is there a fine if someone "is visiting from Chicago and their car ran out of gas a couple blocks away and they only need a couple bucks to get them the rest of the way to their cousin's house in cheektowaga"?

  26. MikeJW

    0 ratings12345
    May 9th 2007, 13:31

    So there are going to be fines for panhandling? Yep that makes sense so when they get fined they'll be out asking" excuse me, can you spare some change so I can pay my fine?" Unbelievable!!!

  27. MikeJW

    0 ratings12345
    May 9th 2007, 13:35

    Genghis your idea is stupid. First of all, last time I checked it doesn't snow 6 months out of the year here. Second, would you want to be in Miami in the summertime with no AC? What so the bums can die of heat stroke? Or maybe a hurricane?

    The point is there shouldn't be any fines if the people your fining are people for asking for money. How does that make sense?

  28. Aloha

    0 ratings12345
    May 9th 2007, 14:12

    Last season we had snow in the following months:

    October November December January February March April

    That's actually 7 consecutive months during which we had at least some snow. But who's counting?

  29. Aloha

    0 ratings12345
    May 9th 2007, 14:14

    PS: May isn't over yet, and last year it snowed in May.

  30. MikeJW

    0 ratings12345
    May 9th 2007, 14:25

    Yep and this past November and December it was in the 50's and 60's. It doesn't snow everyday in each of those months. I left for vacation on xmas day this year and it was 55. Please stop with the whining about the weather already. It got old a long time ago.

    P.S. it's not going to snow in May lol. Now thats funny.

  31. Genghis

    0 ratings12345
    May 9th 2007, 15:15

    Well, as someone pointed out, it did snow every month from October through April. February had snow 26 out of 28 days this year, and in a normal winter we get around 100 inches spread out over like 80 days. Last November and December were abnormally mild, but we still managed to rack up around 90 inches for the winter. The point is that the weather is in fact colder and snowier here than in the vast majority of places, so it's not a good place for a career as a panhandler. As for Miami being too hot, believe it or not, millions of people are able to live in the tropics. Our bodies evolved in a tropical climate, not in a lake-effect region. Maybe MikeJW has an extra layer of blubber to insulate himself, but most panhandlers would be better off doing whatever they do in a warm place.

  32. Aloha

    0 ratings12345
    May 9th 2007, 16:16

    MikeJW,

    I know you're tired of hearing "whining" about the weather in Buffalo, but here's a statistical fact for you. It is cloudy or partially cloudy on 311 days per year in Buffalo, and truly sunny on only 54 of them.

    Source: http://www.cityrating.com/cityweather.asp?city=Buffalo

    I know that might sound like whining to you, but despite the unusual string of nice consecutive days we've enjoyed in Buffalo recently, I'm still not completely over my seasonal affective disorder (SAD) which I must have developed over this past winter. LOL

  33. QuickFix

    0 ratings12345
    May 9th 2007, 18:00

    So back to the story....GET COPS ON FOOT TO CONTROL THIS SITUATION or else this whole thing is pointless.

  34. NBJOHN

    0 ratings12345
    May 9th 2007, 21:15

    Buffalo PD will stop the panhandling... If it is front of a Tim Hortons

  35. NBJOHN

    0 ratings12345
    May 9th 2007, 21:20

    Buffalo PD will stop the panhandling... If it is infront of a Tim Hortons or Dunkin Doughnuts... Actually they may hit a panhandler when the are speeding thru stop lights without thier lights/sirens on, racing to go to Delaware park to ogle the runners...Man, they can't or won't enforce any graffiti laws, what make anyone think this will be enforced.

  36. QuickFix

    0 ratings12345
    May 9th 2007, 22:47

    The Buffalo PD can't even show up to push rowdy kids away on Main Street, or attend a caller who's car window was broken or an item stolen (all in broad day light). Face it, the Buffalo PD is a JOKE. And they want a raise..do your freakin jobs and then we'll discuss a raise. I do not see this new law working in this town. The cops here are too lazy and have better things to do like: sleep in thier cars, eat donuts, harrass the innocent, run red lights, and so on. Unless someone is shot, don't expect to see a cop show up. "Fend for yourself" as mentioned in another posting by someone at City Hall.

  37. NBJOHN

    0 ratings12345
    May 10th 2007, 09:30

    The Mayor says there is enough money to give all the unions including the BPD a raise, but he can't get rid of the user fee? Uhhhhh.... something is smells funny. Byron will push for the unions but he will not push for every homeowner in Buffalo. Ohh that's right, the unions contribute quite a bit of money to him.

  38. hodgepodge

    0 ratings12345
    May 10th 2007, 15:06

    MRodgers: puhlease!! police "chompin at the bit" to enforce this law? you know that's not true. just b/c u work for the city (sorry, are a "consultant" for the city) doesn't mean u have to sat that. plus, now that we have 1 officer per car, who wants 15 of them showing up to bust a panhandler? don't they (the police) realize that until the majority of them start actually living in the city, they are not going to get much sympathy from us over-taxed homeowners for a pay raise.

  39. Jet2Vegas

    1 ratings12345
    May 10th 2007, 18:19

    THIS CITY IS F*@#CKD

  40. QuickFix

    0 ratings12345
    May 10th 2007, 22:22

    Well said Jet2Vegas. This city has no clue how to do ANYTHING!

  41. MRodgers

    1 ratings12345
    May 11th 2007, 10:48

    hodgepodge, I don;t work for the city, I am not a consultant for the city, just a former consultant that worked un der Judge Nowak as explained before. I just believe in the city and volunteer my time for neighborhoods. The police I have had the oppoetunity to work on neighborhood issues have alwys expressed their disgust in attempting to enforce lame laws and ordinances to have them thrown out of court - panhandlers who are aggressive is one of the issues they complained about. This ordinance allows them to do what they've tried to do in the past. Now they have the tool necessary.

  42. hodgepodge

    0 ratings12345
    May 11th 2007, 12:43

    MRodgers: not quite sure if having the "tools" is the problem. the police have the "tools" necessary to bust those who break into our houses and cars in our driveways. it's called the penal code (burglary, crim poss. of stolen property, etc.). why then when we call the police do they try their best to disuade u from filing a report?

  43. MRodgers

    1 ratings12345
    May 11th 2007, 19:19

    hodgepodge, don;t have an answer to that one. Never had an incident like that. Always filed reports as long as there were violations of the penal code. Unfortunately, to swear out a warrant card is a tedious process, but worth it. I would definitly press the cops to provide the report number for any call I made if I were you. They'll write it down for you and you can request a copy either from the district office or BPDHQ.

    Here's a suggestion - call your district office and ask to speak to the chief. Arrange a meeting to discuss what you feel is lacking as far as connecting with the local cops in your area. It's certainly worth a phone call and a 30-45 minute meeting to make things better, right?

  44. metalpeter

    0 ratings12345
    May 11th 2007, 20:05

    Here is what I don't get why are we going at this problem backwards? What I mean is why not try to help these pan handlers with what ever causes them to pan handle. Yeah I think the aggressive ones have to go and something has to be done about them. Why can't the people who need a beer or a sandwich just say "dude I'm hungry would you buy me a bag of chips from wilson farms" or hey man I really need a drink if you are buying a case can I have a beer for example. I don't know what everyones problem is but if we can try to adress the problem then we don't have to fine them. Besides how can you fine someone who doesn't have the money to pay. If you lock up people with out a home then is it really punishment? Why can't they do it Toronto style and sit on a corner with a sign or open guitar case and if people feel charitable they give money and no one is bothered feels threatened.

  45. hodgepodge

    0 ratings12345
    May 12th 2007, 09:08

    MRodgers: been there done that; our block club (former pres.) brought them in, was told a good story, and everyone felt really good. believe me when I say that when incidents have happened on our block, the police uniformally tell us not to bother; which is not to say we don't bother. by the by: and to everyone who has posted to this article: do you think that our fellow residents who reside in neighborhoods where 2-3 people are murdered every week want the police to focus on the losers who panhandle instead of those committing the killings?

  46. QuickFix

    0 ratings12345
    May 12th 2007, 14:34

    It's not just a Toronto thing, Metalpeter. When I lived in NYC, the panhandlers would rap, sing, play instruments, dance, do majic tricks or sell items for money. It was never a problem, some people get annoyed (the locals, of course), BUT at least they are doing SOMETHING besides saying "yo, you have any change?". I used to see a guy in a wheel chair do tricks outside the Main Place Mall and one guy play the Sax, did they get charged for somthing? or did we not understand what they were doing?

  47. QuickFix

    0 ratings12345
    May 12th 2007, 14:44

    In response to Hodgepodge about the murders. That does suck and is a reality, but we also have to start at the "Quality of Life" Issues in this town. One must look at how Rudy and the gang changed NYC from "Most Dangerous City in the Country" to the "MOST Safest Big City"...They started with getting Cops ON PATROL (Foot, bike, in the subways, public places, etc.) Going after PANHANDLERS, litter bugs, graffiti artists, and so on. The reason? To start at the core of the problem. Don't wait till something big happens such as a murder to step in. Start at the root of the problems to send a message, "We are out there and we are watching, you better behave". Yes, it does seems our local BPD and the City of Buffalo is very behind the times and is unaware of the reality to how to handle our problems, But maby someday they will do a "STUDY" on how NYC changed for the better and follow in thier foot steps. I put "STUDY" with my fingers up as this city is so famous for "STUDIES" yet hasn't passed anything EVER. Maby we need tutors.

  48. kelly

    2 ratings12345
    May 12th 2007, 15:02

    Why can't the people who need a beer or a sandwich just say "dude I'm hungry would you buy me a bag of chips from wilson farms"

    Because most of them want a bag of chips like I want a good swift kick to the head. Once, when I was working in University Plaza (technically Amherst, but only by a few feet), I was walking back from tops with a sandwich I'd bought for lunch. A guy (the older one with the shopping cart who seems to own that turf in the panhandle hierarchy) said "hey, I'm starving, I haven't eaten in three days, can you spare some cash?"

    I told him I don't give people cash, but he was welcome to my sandwich I'd just bought.

    He called me a not-so-nice name that rhymes with hunt and walked away.

    Sorry, but my likelihood to give isn't going to go up when the story changes from "need gas money/car broke down/ kids at the bus station/ medicine for my baby" to "hey, I'm a raging drug addict/alcoholic, can you spare some cash so I can get my perhaps illegal fix?"

    If someone's hungry and I have money I'll buy them food. Shoot, the older Vietnam vet with the bicycle who works the Spot downtown area calls me his angel and keeps the other panhandlers from talking to me when I'm out there because I've bought him bags of groceries before. If I don't have money I'll direct them to Friends of the Night People, the soup kitchen on Elmwood and Lafayette or something similar because no human being should ever go hungry, and certainly not in the richest country on Earth.

    But shit, I don't work forty hours a week and commute an hour each way on the damn bus so I can help support someone else's addiction. And I've offered food more times than I can count to people who said they were hungry and needed cash. Less than half accepted it, and even among those who did, it didn't take a rocket scientist to see they wouldn't have used the cash for food if given the option, but would take anything offered to them.

  49. metalpeter

    0 ratings12345
    May 13th 2007, 11:15

    Yeah I do agree that there are a lot of people who make up stories so they can get cash get cash and use it on drugs or alcohol or maybe even with enough money a hooker or what ever they want but mostly drugs I would assume. But I wasn't talking about those people. I was talking about the people who just want a smoke, a beer or a tasty sandwich and that is all they really want. I do understand that you can't help everyone and that people need to want to change and not need to ask for money. But the question I have is why are we going after the pan handlers and trying to lock them up and fine them. Why don't the cops take them into a social service office or maybe even have a special department for panhandlers and the homeless and try to help the people who want to be helped instead of fining them and trying to lock them up. We as a society at least need to try and help people first. I myself don't give out money for two reasons. First of all if someone has a drug habbit then I'm helping them get drugs and me giving them money only hurts them and it doesn't help them at all. I just wind up encouraging them asking for money. If no one gives in and gives them money then they will go else ware. The second reason is that giving them money only encourages them hanging out in that same place and if they see you again they then get deppendent on your money. Giving a panhandler money isn't what is the best for them. You are encouraging a quick fix intsead of forcing them to get the help that they need. Oh yeah that assumes that they arn't just the young kinds who are fine and are just asking for money but don't really need it.

  50. QuickFix

    0 ratings12345
    May 13th 2007, 14:45

    I've directed a few bums to the Homeless Shelter on Tupper St. and did not like the response I got back. It seems most of these people really don't want the help They just want our money. They dont want to work like we do, they just consider hanging out on the streets asking for change to be all they know as far as work. With so many of them in this city, it sure does proove we live in a very Poor City. Where are the JOBS? That would be a great start to get people working again in this area. We wonder why the big stores are not downtown, Because the majority of people who live in this city CAN'T AFFORD them. It's a proven fact. Create Jobs, Get Cops on FOOT, stop doing "Studies" and JUST DO SOMETHING HERE!

  51. MRodgers

    1 ratings12345
    May 13th 2007, 15:34

    To all, there is a city based Qualty of Life Task Force that has been meeting regularly and is using data and common sense principles to come up with a plan. Part of the Panhandling Legislation will work if people will call 911 when either witnessing or approached by aggressive panhandlers. This mornig while I was at SPoT Delaware, Tourette Guy was out there - within feet of an ATM and also approaching people at their cars. I called 911 and within seven minutes two cop cars came through and searched for him. Unfortunately, someone had provided some cash and the next time I saw him was when he was coming out of a property that was a center for crack sales. Unfortunately, for him, the "business" had been shut down over the past couple of weeks and he could not acquire what he went there for. Like I said before, if these guys and gals get arrested they'll appear before drug court and get sent to a rehab facility. That's the best course of action since it starts the process of remediation for them. I was the only one to call the police today, they came almost immediately. Now, use the ordinance. On the phone to 911 I explained he was aggressive, going up to cars, close to an ATM, etc. But, he got some cash and disappeared. He could have been in front of Judge Russell on Monday. Call and give the new ordinance a chance, not to work only for those approached but for those doing the panhandling.

  52. Aloha

    0 ratings12345
    May 14th 2007, 18:37

    MRodgers, I think you must really be high if you actually believe the shit you write on this blog.

  53. MRodgers

    1 ratings12345
    May 14th 2007, 19:16

    Aloha, I believe it because I live it and I get results. N'est Pa?

  54. TruBeliever

    0 ratings12345
    May 14th 2007, 19:31

    Damn, theres always someone out there to criticize instead of getting off there asses in this case Aloha. At least MRogers is doing somthing. I hear that when you smoke crack or mairjuanna all you do is sit around so who is high here?

  55. Aloha

    0 ratings12345
    May 15th 2007, 10:22

    MRodgers, No, it's more like you do a lot of talking about results you would like to achieve and then exaggerate the outcome. And, by the way, the correct term is "n'est-ce pas" not "N'est Pa."

    TruBeliever, apparently not everything you've assumed about marijuana is true.

  56. TruBeliever

    0 ratings12345
    May 15th 2007, 11:14

    well, marijuanna addict or not, I happen to live in the lower west side and we have a tru leader in MRogers who works her heart out for no pay or handclaps. She has done more to revitalize this area oftown than any before her and is more n the modest side than someone who exxagerates. so alohoa, since you choose to reman anonymous, so will your comments to me at least and quie a few others.

  57. Aloha

    0 ratings12345
    May 15th 2007, 14:33

    I'm not sure who you're accusing of being a marijuana addict. In fact, I don't understand much of your comment. That is English, right? If by saying MRodgers does not receive "handclaps" for her efforts, you mean that people never thank her, or pat her on the back, you are flat out wrong. She receives ample amounts of praise from her friends and neighbors. And saying that she receives "no pay" isn't entirely accurate either. Her personal interests often intermingle with her professional affairs, which in fact do pay her. For example, addressing code violations at a derelict property in or near the West Village addressed all of the following: her personal concerns as a resident of the West Village, her concerns as the Director of her neighborhood group, and her professional duties as a paid consultant for the city (Housing Court, I believe). Her current work with Hispanics United also serves the same multi purposes, both personally and professionally, especially now that the her neighborhood group has "partnered" with the organization that pays her bills. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but I am saying that it's false to say that her "volunteer" work is completely unrelated to her own self interests.

    I'm through debating with you the merits of one outspoken neighborhood activist. I'll agree with you that the neighborhood is better off with her than it would be without her. Now...got anything else to say about the new panhandling law?

  58. MRodgers

    0 ratings12345
    May 15th 2007, 18:45

    NYC00....oops, sorry, Aloha, I no longer work in Housng Court - I volunteer my time as a liaison, as I do on the Quality of Life Task Force, Citizen's Planning Council, Save Our Streets Task Force, Hispanics Alliance, and quite a few other groups.

    My neighborhood work provided a platform with which to reach out to Hispanics United for a partnership that is now reaping great rewards within our neoghborhood. Yes, I do work there, for a small recompense that clearly cannot pay my bills, but everybody has to work, eh? Not all of us are civil servants.

    The neighborhood work I do transcends the West Village and goes throughout the city. Do I get a kick back there? I get to know folks on the East Side, North District, South Buffalo, Seneca Babcock area, Loveoy and we all learn better practices together. I guess you could say I do as much as any activity performed by the myriad of advocates throughout this city, working together, creates a better environment overall so the issues do not just move a few blocks away.

    All in all, my work hours including my volunteer hours greatly surpass 80 hours per week. You do the math, I really don't have the time to quibble about it. Thank you for your concern.

  59. Aloha

    0 ratings12345
    May 15th 2007, 19:41

    Thank you for confirming that you're more like paid help than you are a volunteer. It's more than I expected from you.

  60. Meteoraburns

    0 ratings12345
    May 15th 2007, 20:31

    Oh-oh, Queen Aloha has been defrocked. Hey, those are my tax dollars your wasting writing on this blog while you should be working, dude.

  61. Aloha

    0 ratings12345
    May 16th 2007, 07:44

    Meteoraburns, Was that directed at me? WTF? Like TruBeliever's comment, yours doesn't make any sense either. Actually, yours makes less sense.

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