Buffalo Rising Online

Pipe down and stop asking questions. You'll be invited to the press conference unveiling the hair-brained development scheme when it is completed in 2018. Public participation? HA!

What happened to those grand plans that were splashed all over the papers a few years back? What was the reason for those not moving forward? Did someone invoke the Slippery Slope Act and say no?

EXACTLY!!! - Our waterfront needs masterplanning! We'll continue to have disjointed projects without it. Infrastructure comes first and then we can develop it. No masterplan is the reason why Higgins and the DOT were able to get away with pushing through a new highway on the outer harbor. He should be pushing for a masterplan instead.

As of now, waterfront village is substantially complete, so where is new waterfront housing going to get built and secondly how can we improve upon the design of waterfront village? (hmm, might have something to do with mixed use and public access)

I also wonder whether the transfer of the outer harbor parcel ever took place from the NFTA to the ECHDC? Speaking of master plans, how is the one coming along for the inner harbor aka canalside?

I am not saying there needs to be public input, but how about monthly updates considering the massive amounts of taxpayer money they have at their disposal.

THIS CLOSED DOOR BEHIND THE SCENES CRAP NEVER ENDS!

Ooops...I forgot, I can go to this website for all the latest news on canalside...

http://www.canalsidebuffalo.com

part of the problem is simply the fact that the 'plan' which was approved by then owner NFTA was a total pie in the sky bust. as BP said.. it has everything on it except for an elevator to the moon. It wasn't plausible of believable. There were counter plans made to refute NFTA's but nothing have come of them since. Probably due to the lack of ownership and momentum.

of note:

nfta.com outer harbor development

also of note:

Queen City Waterfront

you ask where are the master plans. Follow this link and you will find the city's plan for not just the outer harbor but all the waterfront. There isn't the flashy images but a process for development moving forward. This is a framework that sets down the guidelines and rules of conduct in the future. Similar to the QC Hub plan which talked about downtown and has helped to spur much of interest and development in the core this is supposed to take that idea and apply it to the waterfront.

I also would recommend checking out the other sections to the plan, particularly the proposals for Erie Street and Porter Ave.

What happened to those grand plans that were splashed all over the papers a few years back? What was the reason for those not moving forward? Did someone invoke the Slippery Slope Act and say no?

When traffic was rerouted last month, the news kept showing the Master Plan photos of why traffic patterns are to be altered for awhile due to Outer Harbor Master Plans. Are those the photos everyone is asking about?

No, those were Higgins's/DOT's propaganda photos of a pretty "olmsted-like" parkway (whatever the hell that means) to get people excited while they ram a new waterfront highway down our throats.

Here's a link to a PowerPoint presentation about all waterfront projects that provides cost and completion dates. It covers all the Outer Harbor projects.

go to http://budc.ecidany.com/

then go to the lower left and click on "Click here To Download Presentation"

Townline...How do you propose people getting around the outer harbor without the reconfiguration? Navigating back and forth under route 5 like it currently is? Have you seen the actual layout for the project? Maybe you should go to the DOT website, click on the "contact us" link for the project and ask for some PDF's of what the finished project will look like in terms of traffic patterns before condemning the project as a "new waterfront highway".

jstraubinger..the link you provide is to a powerpoint presentation that is almost a year old and I'm not sure how much of it is even still accurate.

Thanks KenS. Thank you, also, for assuming that I am assuming, thats a good thing to do. I actually am pretty familiar with what they are doing. I have the plans that I downloaded online months ago. I've gone through them. Thanks. Would you like to quiz me? That'd be fun. I've corresponded with Higgins on several occasions about it as well (albeit, I haven't received more than a generic half-assed BS response). I assume that you are assuming that I just come on here and complain.

Does no one else find it a bit deceiving that the largest part of this outer harbor infrastructure project is a major highway arterial, yet all we see is renderings of gardens and winding bike paths? Why do you think it is that they never choose to publicize renderings of the entire project, including the highway? Do you think they might be afraid that the public would actually become more informed about the project and develop coherent opinions, rather than just getting excited about pretty pictures and the "Olmsted Like Parkway" propaganda. By the way, I really would like to hear Higgins' definition of what "Olmsted Like Parkway" actually means. What elements are similar to Olmsted's designs? Because there are trees? Or does he maybe say that because its kind of a "catch phrase" in the Buffalo area? Please enlighten.

How do I propose we "get around" the outer harbor? I think that the outer harbor land should be an extension of the city's at-grade street network, connected by at-grade bridges across the bflo river and city canal. We need to connect the inner and outer harbors through several smaller streets rather than having that connection dominated by one giant piece of infrastructure that actually leapfrogs the inner harbor and creates massive barriers to development. If all you want is a new football stadium and a convention center on the outer harbor, then a big highway will work just fine. However, if you want to allow for natural urban development growth in the form of new neighborhoods and public water amenities, you need to have far more intimate connections reduce the physical barriers. Unfortunately, we seem to have completely forgotten how to develop new neighborhoods anymore.

The new highway is an improvement over what is there, no doubt. But to think this is the right plan for the future of Buffalo's waterfront development is so ridiculously short sighted. Even the stupid parkway is not designed to spur urban development around it. Our outer harbor is going to develop in a very suburban fashion, a direct result of the type of infrastructure that is being implemented right now.

well said. They are building like mad out there and they don't even know what they are building for.

Where is the masterplan???

It took us almost 40 years and millions of dollars to build the Canal terminus project and the majority of the project hasn't even started (making it a destination). I expect that my nieces and nephews will be having this debate in 40 years with similar disdain and contempt for the lack of progress.

Townline...you are truly the expert on this subject. I just can't figure out how they didn't put you in charge.

Sorry for doubting you.

PS Where is it etched in stone that the outer harbor can't be suburban like? Does everything in this city have to resemble the Elmwood strip?

Sorry, but you're making assumptions about me. I'm commenting about what I think about the topic at hand. My opinons aren't perfect, but isn't that what this site is for? Should we all just read the stories and shut up about them? Its called discussion. If you want to just read what other people say and then take swipes at them, fine. But how about actually posting about the topic and what you think of it.

Townline said it very well.

$55 million will be spent on Route 5 but the major barrier to development, the elevated highway, is being rebuilt. Very short sighted indeed.

Every national expert who has visited Buffalo and studied the waterfront agrees that it needs to be downgraded to an at-grade boulevard and to extend the city's street grid to the water.

The Waterfront Coalition, representing a dozen community organizations, and numerous public officials agree with the experts. King Brian does not. He's more interested in ribbon cuttings these days.

Unfortunately, rebuilding the elevated highway will make it more difficult to remove the Skyway (a huge challenge in itself), keep property values low, and result in sparse suburban style development, if any at all. What a shame.

Other than combining Furhman Boulevard and Route5....into an at grade boulevard like it is in Lackawanna, Blasdell and Hamburg....

Other than rerouting the Skyway and Route5 via the Tifft Street Connector (to be constructed)

There doesnt need to be a master plan for the inner and outer harbor. Why? Two reasons:

1) Until there are lift bridges at Erie, or Pearl or Main or Michigan (or some combination of the previous) there isnt enough integration to justify any development...and therefore the plans and purposes for that area will continue to change over time as the economy and the city change.

2) There are clusters of development in the city: Downtown, West Village&West Side, Fruit Belt, Larkin District, Central Terminal, Cobblestone District. The momentum is not on the inner or ourter harbor because that area isnt integrated via lift bridges to the street grid.

Those lift bridges should be a part of the plan. The master plan should be largely about infrastructure improvements and the type of development that they want a particluar type of infrastructure to encourage.

Townline...I did post about the topic. I think the new 4 lane parkway is a huge step in the right direction in terms of infrastructure prior to developing the outer harbor. I agree that the skyway should go away, but we all know that isn't happening any time soon.

newskylinebuffalo...What is "supposed" to be released by the end of summer? A master plan for just the inner harbor or the inner and outer harbors? I believe it is related to just the canalside project, but I could be wrong.

You're right. The skyway will not go away anytime soon now that we are building a brand new highway connecting to it. There was hope before that project got underway.

Erie Canal Harbor Development Corp needs to run a decent (professional) website with useful information about all these projects, masterplans. They are a public entity and the only site they ran was to try a convince the public of the central wharf bass pro plan. they need to start acting like they work for us!

Right on nyc. Isn't it amazing how much propaganda our public officials still try to feed people, in a day of instant information where people can choose to become much better educated about whats going on. You'd think we're still in WWII.

So, let me get this straight, we are getting a waterfront highway on the Outter Harbor? ...Hmmm, sounds alot like the 190. Luv what they did to Riverside Park (it used to go right to the Waterfront before the highway was put in). So, I see we really haven't learned our lesson yet, have we NYS?

Buffalo leaders need to focus more on master-planning and less on master-bating.

nyc...I am glad to hear others speak up about the lack of public information on this project(canalside & outer harbor). Some of us may not agree on the new outer harbor parkway, but there is a lot of information on the DOT website in regards to it and other information can be requested.

Why is the ECHDC not held to the same standards? Is this not public money they are spending? I really dislike the fact that there is so little accountability to the public. A Buffalo News article every 3 to 4 months is just not cutting it especially since it contains the same fluff over and over.

Anyone know if the ECDHC meetings are open to the public?

See, now this is the type of story that the Public should be involved in. NOT, why didn't Wilson Farms let us know they wanted to renovate their building.