Buffalo Rising Online

you're an idiot

Dear Waterfront Pioneers,

I hope that my property appreciates too. That does not give me the right to dictate how other people invest their money. I can relate to your concerns but I can't believe that you would use that argument as your strongest plea.

Fortunately for your own interests, that argument was not found to be compelling enough.

Did you invest in waterfront living because you love the million-dollar view and the proximity to downtown? Or, did you invest in waterfront living because you are a wanna-be flipper?

If you are an investor in the waterfront, then you invested in your own faith in the City's continued growth and prosperity. In the short term these new units may be scary for your property values, but it is a great long-term indication that your long-term investment decision was sound. The fact that experienced developers are anxious to risk their capital is the best symptom that your investment was a wise one.

Sit back and enjoy both views. The view of the gorgeous sunsets and the view of your pile of money growing!

If you are in the unfortunate predicament that the new development is going to ruin your view, then try and find consolation in the fact that the price you paid for your home was automatically impacted downward by the competing shoppers who did their due diligence and factored into their bids the fact that the destiny of that grassy area was uncertain.

If you are an investor in the waterfront, then you invested in your own faith in the City's continued growth and prosperity

Continued prosperity???! Are you serious?

Sit back and enjoy both views. The view of the gorgeous sunsets and the view of your pile of money growing!

More like cloudy skies and money wasted

OMG!!! It's not like they're putting up tenements or anyhting like that. Lipstick on a condo? :-)))))))))))))))))

oh gosh thats ugly but atleast its 8 stories....10 would have been better

but now the next battle of the NIMBY must be connecting the street grids under the Niagara Expressway to the waterfront.

Streets like W Genessee/Church, Charles, Georgia, Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Hudson, Pennsylvania, Jersy, etc to name a few.

Its critical because the next stage of development (for it to continue) must occur between the Niagara Expressway and Niagara Street....if there is no connection to the water and the parks then this land isnt going to attract buyers.

It really is neo-penetentiary 21st Century housing. Very reminiscent of the LA County Jail. World class!

i think the design is actually sorta cool. The colors are a bit of a turn off but i wouldnt be surprised if the ones here are just makeshift colors. Im sure colors and crap are worked out after they know they are allowed to build it. Other than that i like the modern twist to it

BUYER BEWARE!

Waterfront residents need to be more concerned with Paladino's two gigantic towers being built with tax abatement.

Can you say Inventory glut? Within a year you will see existing residents flock to Paladinos building because it is new construction without tax, just moving people around.

Paladino's two towers coupled with Case Luce, will produce a glut of condos that will only sell during the summer.

This is when prices will ultimately correct. High Supply, low demand. Happened everywhere in the country. Buffalo always lags by two years. Time for our real estate correction.

Unfortunately, if you bought within the last 3-4 years during the peak, you are going to get burned and bad!

I would not touch anything on the waterfront until these projects are completed. There are simply not enough people in Buffalo that can afford to live on the waterfront.

PS - whoever paid 300k plus to buy in the Lakefront Commons ( the ugly grey condos that look like low income housing) will now have their view entirely blocked by the Casa Luce Project.

In addition, some townhouses in Marina Park will also no longer have a view down river.

yes, those views will be blocked but thats always the danger of buying adjacent to developable land next door.

As far as a glut or price reductions, I dont think thats a significant problem. Downtown is increasingly in demand and so is the waterfront.

Buffalo doesnt have alot of condos to begin with...

Buffalo is also not really over built...infact its underbuilt.

Besides Casa Luce (26 units), other projects in the Waterfront Village pipeline include 64 from developer Carl Paladino, 30 by Nemo Development and another 54 in a later phase of a project being built Paladino.

Thats a grand total of 174 more units, brand spanking new, all with tax abatement. Come on!

The existing units are OLD, poorly built, grossly overpriced, and include taxes.

Many people are moving out of the 80's style condos and into the new ones. What do you think is going to happen?

Inventory glut -

mmmmm let me see, I can buy a brand new condo for 350k and pay no tax or I can buy a townhome built in 1980 and pay 12k/ yr in taxes and FREEZE my balls off all winter long because they are built out of straw!

wake up people, party over, sell while you can still get out.

its 1000x better than that piece of crap Paladino is building.. at least this building doesn't give downtown a huge blank brick wall... but will have features and views from all sides and directions. A hands down better project. Keep up the good work guys.

Wow, there are some really bitter renters commenting here. Chicken Little Gaustad- proof you have no idea what you are talking about- the gray units are The Breakwaters, not Lakefront Commons. And explain how this project blocks views 'down the river' from Marina Park. They never had a view of 'down the river'!!!

Time for Gaustad to move to another city. For his own mental health. Why would anybody want to live in a city they think is a total hellhole that has nowhere to go but further down into the hellhole?

Crisa, can i get some of what you are smoking, some of that sticky icky green thats was a gift from our dear sweet mother earth, my friend. I'm only speculating...

Crisa, your posts are completely bonkers. Keep up the good work!

Brett: If you're looking for pedestrian access, check out Hudson st, 1 block north. Hudson was chosen for a ped bridge, I think, because of its connection to Allentown and its central placement in that lower west side community from Porter Ave to Carolina St. If you're looking for auto access, then I think you can drive up to Porter Ave and go around.

I'm in Chicago right now (south side, much worse for crime and poverty than Buffalo's west side) and they have a very functional lake front despite the presence of a large highway. There's plenty of pedestrian passages over Lakeshore Drive, and there's actually cool stuff to do on the other side of the highway--beaches, long MUP, etc.

For all its worth, why must we have the absolute ugliest waterfront condos known to man? Looking at the shape and form of these atrocities, you'd think the developers hired a group of former Soviet architects whose best days were designing worker camps someplace in Siberia. Honestly, have they heard os something called 'charm'? My idea of a waterfront district that is livable and actually makes sense is something like Old Towne Alexandria. I know what everyone is think on that one...'What, our waterfront looks nothing like that!?!? How can you even compare the two.' And that is precisely the point.

Oh well, there are always suckers looking to jump on board at the thought of being able to look at the Lake and the belief that that alone will somehow brigthen their lives on a daily basis endlessly and all problems will dissolve away. I can't imagine living in a place like this once the dreaded six hit, November, December, January...it can't seem much like Margaritaville at that point.

An my last and final point. I knew someone who purchased one of these condos who previously owned a nice house one street off Hertel. His wife forced him to buy it basically. Once he secured his piece of paradise on the waterfront he realized he hated it, there was absolutely nothing to do there, and you are essentially trading your life for the opportunity to live in an apartment with a view that most of the time is frozen.

1) If other building owners were concered about views, their association should have bought the land and kept it clear. It's as rediculus as the subdivisions that knock down trees, only to complain when one next door comes to knock down trees. Buy the land if you want it kept clear. 2) these are all going to be pre-sold to a group of future owners "at cost". This has no effect on the current places for sale since these owners were not interested in those. 3) If a glut of housing is a reason not to build more, someone send a note out to all of Erie County. We already have a 10,000+ glut of houses we are still trying to figure out how to get rid of.

the amount of condos that exist in this small area along with the price - It just doesnt make sense to me. I love the idea of building nice condos in other areas of buffalo, like the gates circle project (what the hell happened with that??), Avant ect (i am not sure of any other projects). Aside from the lake front views what else does that area where this is being planned have that makes it so much more special? I love the idea of condos instead of lofts everywhere! but then again why not fix up a beautiful home in the elmwood area for 300k.

Platt4 -

the waterfront is a little cold 8 months out of the year for my liking. I am making a very elementary point that the values will come down BIG after the new condos are built. You missed that point like you miss all other points....

Platt4 - why don't you buy something in Admirals Walk for 400k with 13k/year in taxes and 1200/month in HOA fees and tell me how you feel in 24 months. You need to retake Econ 101 at ECC.

RubyGreta - I am just peachy here in Buffalo as long as I don't read countless posts from people who think there is nothing wrong with the city. Buffalo is not on the upswing, as much as I would like it to be.

I am all for this project being built, but common sense will tell you there are a limited group of people in Buffalo that can pay 4000/month plus for their monthly payment.

Do the math.

Gaustad re-read the articles in the news. These condos are already basically SOLD. The builders ARE the owners. They are not even looking for buyers. They ARE the buyers. That means it has no impact on any kind of "glut" and will not move people from one waterfront condo to a newer waterfront condo.

Put aside the knee-jerk negativity.

As for the neighbors, they're just being typical NIMBYs. This marina was built to be developed.. not so the first residents can have a 10 acre lawn next to them. It must be developed so the city can get its tax revenue from these wealthy owners... and to make up for the other tax breaks doled out to developers and owners.

no knee jerk negativity - just speculation. You don't have to agree.

I am tickled that we are getting another building on the waterfront, but the prices are too high there now!

Re-read my other comments. Even if "all" of these condos are sold, which I doubt, you will still have several existing residents moving into these new buildings.

Paladino says he is 70% sold and I can tell you that there are at least 20 existing condo owners that will be putting their places on the market all at once to move in.

Couple that with the fact that the mortgage market is the worst it has been since 1929 and you are going to have at least a 30% correction.

Why is this so difficult for people to understand. It is a matter of economics, not trying to be a naysayer.

you can absorb the finances anyway you want. If I were that far off you wouldn't have the neighbors down there protesting the project.

Geoged, you say that Bufalo economy experiances a two year "lag" compared to the rest of the country. I thought the Conventional Wisdom in WNY was that we we're the FIRST region to slide into recession and, unfortunatly, the last one out. What gives? The answer is the latter is true (with the promising exception of Buffalo's resiliency in today's economy and your answer is just stale BS used to support your opinions and hope everyone just accepts it without thinking twice because thats what we've all been told the last 30 years. We'll I'm calling you out,sir. Pease post a link that supports your claim that Buffalo will slidding into a recession, or that our housing market (WNY overall) will collapse in lock step behind the rest of the country.

Excuse me Eisenm11, but I don't think I ever said any of that. Must have the wrong guy. I will say that your statement that Buffalo has a resilient economy these days is laughable. Do you really believe this or does making statements like like make you feel better?

In fact, please start by telling me exactly what IS Buffalo's economy? Also, I don't think Buffalo is sliding into a recession. Buffalo has been in a recession for 30 years.

Buffalo's economy consists of eating and drinking....sincerely, there are more great mom and pop bar and restaurants than anywhere in the country

PS - existing waterfront condos are going to drop in value by 30%

eating and drinking...and a good culture scene w/ arts.....but to be honest...WHAT ELSE IS THERE!!??! is there a magical city out there whos economy isnt revolving around restaurants, drinks, the arts and a couple sports teams?! give the unwarrented negativity a rest

HMMM, let see buffalo economy, based on finance, as in HSBC and M&T, 10,000 banking jobs between two giants is nothing to laugh at. hospitality, as in delaware north, Buffalo lodging associates, Hamister group, and should be noted buffalo area hotels have been doing well lately, medical research, look at what's going on in the medical campus. food processing, as in rich products and general mills, , hmmmm, seems buffalo's economy has diversified in the last 20 years. Not so reliant on heavy industry, cleaning up there waterfront with more recreational and living uses. Not bad.

HMMM, let see buffalo economy, based on finance, as in HSBC and M&T, 10,000 banking jobs between two giants is nothing to laugh at. hospitality, as in delaware north, Buffalo lodging associates, Hamister group, and should be noted buffalo area hotels have been doing well lately, medical research, look at what's going on in the medical campus. food processing, as in rich products and general mills, , hmmmm, seems buffalo's economy has diversified in the last 20 years. Not so reliant on heavy industry, cleaning up there waterfront with more recreational and living uses. Not bad.

2 Fortune 500 companies based here....that is it. I would hardly call M&T or HSBC giants of employment. 10,000 jobs is not that big.

georged, I was simply pointing out buffalos economy, and will add, it has improved from the 70's and 80's when it was consistently at the bottom of the heap in unemployment (double digit) and all news on the business pages consisted of this plant closing and that plant closing. That era is over. in the last 2 years, there actually has been job growth, and in those years, monthly job growth has topped upstate, though unemployment still lags. There can be no denying this is an IMPROVEMENT. I just wonder about the negativity?

mjs - there is a difference between negativity and realism. There is no more news of plants closing b/c they have all closed.

There has been very little job creation, if any, in downtown Buffalo in years.

Just because someone states a fact that happens to be negative, doesn't mean that person is negative.

Don't lie to yourself to make yourself feel better, Buffalo is still a very poor city with wealthy suburbs.