Buffalo Rising Online

Holy Big Brother. They're going to catch a lot of people

Big Brother marches on!!!

Just goes to show that the full police state is not far off.

Holy Big Brother. They're going to catch a lot of people

Holy Big Brother. They're going to catch a lot of people

Waste of money for cops who don't care about their job. I liked the news about the 15 officers that live out in the suburbs, rake in 100= thousand dollars a year and drive to and from work on the city's taxpayers dime.

All this does is give the union more tools to do the job that could just be done by officers who actually cared about their work. But then why would they, crime isn't a problem in Orchard Park, Clarence, or Springville.. makes me sick.

Reminds me of the public defender who gets drug dealers off the hook because of technicalities and doesn't care because he gets to go home every night to Tonawanda. We need to think about these issues as a regional problem. Unfortunately too many people feel they live consequence free from their jobs. This gives them one more tool to be even lazier in their work and collect the big bucks.

Just one more reason for them not to get out of their vehicles!

time to get a bike

Just goes to show that the full police state is not far off.

i cannot believe that we pay our police that much. no wonder why we are always after the bad guy.

Further criminalization of our citizenship....

We are all criminals who exist solely due to the benevolence of our badged overlords!

[Deleted] THE POLICE

1. I don't think this is a privacy issue. Cops already check plates as it is, and anytime you go out in public you open yourself up to being watched by someone.

2. This system should make the enforcement of these laws much more fair, as these checks are done automatically across the board rather than at a cop's discretion.

3. This has nothing to do with the union, or laziness. The claim that it does is almost incoherent -- what are you talking about?

4. "Reminds me of the public defender who gets drug dealers off the hook because of technicalities and doesn't care because he gets to go home every night to Tonawanda."

Uh, that's their job. it's an adversarial system.

We have a couple cops living here in Black Rock and they are pretty good guys and care about this community. But sadly they are the exception, most police officers live in the suburbs taking their paychecks and badly needed presence away from the city. This is not allowed in our surrounding communities, residency is required. To provide cars enabling this behavior is an insult to all the poor taxpayers of Buffalo.

Haven't checket yet but I am sure there is a simple way to make your plates unrecognizable to the scanner. Ingenuity is always on the side of the "criminal."

"The scanners detect the cars parked on the street, in driveways, and in yards as well as the cars that drive past the officer."

I wonder if the ACLU has chimed in on the fact they are looking at non moving targets on private property?.

If a cop is walking down your street and sees that your inspection sticker is out of date, is he barred from writing you a ticket if the car is in your driveway? I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt that's the case. The principle here is the same -- only the technology is different.

Colin-

The violation is not an expired sticker-it is driving with one. Same thing with insurance and registration. This is like any other "tax," on the people. Sure, they will stop more thieves but they will collect a lot more in fines (and don't forget their mandatory $55 surcharge)from those who may not have the time or the scratch to be prompt about such matters. Remember, not everyone makes 25 grand in OT and has there employers cover such mundane necessities.

Besides, in the age of identity theft, how would you like to have people running around with these things?

PaulBuffalo-

I suppose that is why certain jurisdictions have made such practices illegal. Radar detectors, license covers, etc. Because they just don't work

estreet, I was under the impression that if you have plates on your car then you need proper registration, inspection, and insurance - period.

As far as the "Quality-of-life," crimes that transformed one of Dante's stages into a Wiggles production;

Those crimes were vandalism, loud noise, littering, graffiti, prostitution, public intoxication, lewdness,and the like in areas where crime was an issue.

NOT driving down Elmwood avenue near Bidwell in a 6 month old Honda Civic purchased in Georgia because it did not have New York's own (tax) seals of approval. I do thank them, however, for looking out for my safety as god know's how much wear and tear those untrustworthy honda engineers placed on the vehicle.

Steve,

i believe their is a 10-14 day window in regards to insurance and plates but not inspection

I am simply arguing to the example of NYC's transformation. It was not a valid comparison.

I was pulled over, to my argument, due to obscene excise taxes (inspections, seat belts and the like) that NYS chooses to impose upon us.

I had an office on Elmwood where all of the Quality of Life crimes listed above took place at night. Problem is, no cop was going to get out of his car to do anything about it. (Hell, they wouldn't even come when called) But catch someone without NYS inspection in a brand new car in the midle of the day when the scum are sleeping...EASY MONEY!!! In fact, let's set up check points on the S-Curves (Lots of crime there) many hands, light work and all.

estreet --

D'oh! You're right.

This isn't that different from the wiretaps and keyword surveillance that are used on cell phones. You should have nothing to worry about if you aren't talking about anything illegal or controversial, the police are just protecting the citizens of America. Same thing holds true with the FBI monitoring internet usage to catch pedophiles and other criminals. I guess you have nothing to worry about as long as you are using the internet for lawful and morally righteous purposes. Why not perform random surveillance on citizens, after all we are all fine as long as we aren't doing anything illegal. Why not put a device on every car that disables it if you do not have a valid license or if it is not registered, insured, and inspected? Maybe we can go one step further and put a monitor on cars that will automatically generate a ticket if you exceed the maximum speed threshold for an area as defined by the government and enforced by RFID or other sensors located on speed limit signs. Fail to slow down to within a few miles of the speed limit and you will automatically be sent a ticket. Link together all the local surveillance cameras for 24x7 police monitoring, add in facial recognition and other comparative software to track known criminals. Maybe we can also begin to track all felons so we know their whereabouts whenever the government is curious about what they are up to.

It isn't that far off, the foot in the door and desensitization of these innocuous surveillance devices will make it easier for the government to impose more rigorous monitoring as they wish. Just ask yourself if you were aware of this passive surveillance before it was instituted? I didn't think so.

hey einstein,

They already have what you're talking about in many places. They get you for tickets in maryland with a camera. All you see is a flash and boom, you have a ticket.

Why do people complain about this? I have no clue. If the speed limit it 35 and you're doing 50, aren't you technically endangering the people on the road and pedestrians as well? A camera takes away your right to speed and thats a violation of civil liberties? You liberal kooks take it way too far all the time.

To be honest I wouldn't think this is a bad move for the police force IF they did a better job with what they have. But too many cops do too many illegal things without repercussions here. This seems like another way to make their life easier and not have to actually exert any effort to do their job. The cops are one of the worst parts about the city and until there is actually some checks and balances here we can never hope to persuade money to come back to the city in any significant numbers. The cops are not committed to the city, and the criminal know this.

Quality of Life is not solely measured by the abscence of urine stained sidewalks and the security of personal property but also of one's ability to be free of big government. The "liberal kooks," and their polar opposites can certainly come to an agreement on that point.

-" However, aren't we all taught that justice should be blind? "

Aren't we also taught taught that we are presumed innocent?

If I presume everyone innocent, I would have no need to train my radar gun or my license scanner at anyone's vehicle. The fact is, I am presuming everyone guilty.

It's a simple concept that unfortunately has been lost along the way.

I am not sure that never having anyone ever pulled over for speeding again is necessarily a bad thing. Forgetting the constitutional arguments, sbrof makes a good point.

The people using the technology can't be trusted. Speeding, inspection, seat belts, cell phones etc were all supposed to be about public safety, instead they have become about collecting funds. Dummy speed traps or random checks are not enough anymore even though studies show that they are successful in changing behaviors. It simply isn't about safety at all.

I am surprised that no one has broken out the "driving is a priviledge," argument. Priviledge is often used by the government as a justification to do things that they wouldn't otherwise be able to do. (It really isn't much different than how parents treat children)

Of course, if you bust out the "how about you go catch a real criminal rap", to the cop writing you up for a cell phone infraction, don't be surprised if he forgets that he has you guilty of an infraction of a "priviledge," and acts like he just landed a serial killer.

This always fun to throw in during conversations like these;

http://www.buffalonews.com/314/story/293735.html?appSession=525105745335702

Paul,

First off, you act as though speeders and those with expired registrations were not caught prior to the advent of radar and license scanners. You also seem to imply that the scanners will bust bad guys and increase public safety.

Quote from above-

On a test run, they used the scanners at various checkpoints around the city. The scanners detected so many unregistered and uninsured cars that they were barely able to keep up with it. Derenda said that in 100 days, they impounded 1,000 cars. “Sometimes it’s not the owner’s fault,” says Derenda. “They’ll get their license suspended and not know it. The other thing that happens often too is people will change insurance and not fill out the proper paperwork.” Overall though, Derenda says, “I think it’s a positive thing, I really do.”

1000 cars in limited use!!!! You would think there had been people lying head-to-toe wounded in the streets of Buffalo given all the public safety infractions.

Then take the "barely able to keep up with it," quote. I picture the typical road block style of force out there 6-10 officers in a reasonably safe area of the city at a reasonably safe time of day and find myself wondering if we would not be better served with 2 officers playing collections eith their gadgets while the remainder are allocated to areas known for gun play and the like. (As I am quite sure bullets are a more pressing public safety issue)

Sorrry Gang,

I keep on finding faults with this nonsense...

According to Operation Impact's Mission Statement;

"The goal of Operation IMPACT is the reduction of crime, particularly violent and firearm-related crime in the seventeen (17) counties in New York State that account for 80% of total crime outside of New York City. This program, which was implemented in 2004, provides funding, resources, and technical assistance, and fosters enhanced partnerships amongst participating agencies. Successful crime reduction strategies include a data driven process of timely, accurate crime reporting; crime analysis; criminal intelligence development; rapid deployment of personnel; formulation and evaluation of strategic operations; and community out-reach."

Anyone wanna spin the scanner's ability to reduce "particularly violent and firearm-related crime?"

Perhaps "community out-reach," is to be read as a community reach-around.

I love it, money for the purpose to reducing violent crime is being used to scan for insurance and inspection infractions... just a lovely use of our manpower and time.

OMG this is wonderful!!!I Why stop at scanning cars? I'll be first in line to get my chip surgery implanted so the police can better know what drugs I take, what food I eat, where I am located or for any other safety reason. My life is better off being monitored by a police officer than my own, makes total sense. They can tell if people are doing drugs and will know who it is, they can use the information from what I eat to tell me how healthy I am and if I'm at risk for any diseases, If I get lost they can find me like on star. This is great. They can also use this information to make my insurance cheaper because then they can share it with insurance companies to better equalize prices for risky patients. We could also get issued cameras to put in are houses so in case theres a fire the fire department can come quicker because it will randomly turn on and look in a house and if it sees a fire it notifies them. Wow I could go on and on. I also happy that they keep putting up cameras on the corners throughout the city, When someone does something bad we get to see it now because we all know cameras stop crime. Take for example banks, mini marts and malls. They never get robbed because theres cameras everywhere. I cant wait for the future................on a side note I will be living in my basement with aluminum foil on my head waiting for the space ship behind that asteroid to pick me up. haha sorry for this rant guys.

well... it is a rant that shows the slippery slope of civil liberty loss. It all starts somewhere and with the best of intentions. Hitler did what he did for the betterment of the country... This is just to make us safer right? I wonder what else they will do to make our lives safer and better....

I wonder what some of you would think about this if you or one of your family members got slammed into by some scumbag who had no insurance. The act of driving without insurance or valid plates/inspection is not the point, it's the potential harm to other people it can cause that's the issue. It's a public safety issue, it's not a personal freedom issue.

ok spitzer i mean manski....THIS WILL NOT make people get insurance on their cars nor make drivers safer! Heres an example, Its against the law to be in the US illegally and you get in trouble if you are. Let me look outside and see everyone heading back to the border they jumped.....Also anyone can hit you in a car, its not only the uninsured that hit you nor is it the car that is not kept up to standards. Also if you are hit by an uninsured driver No-Fault takes care of it in New York. If we took your mentality as its a public safety issue then just get rid of driving? driving kills people so just get rid of it and the public is safe from one source of danger. While were at it people drown in pools every year that could be a danger to people, lets ban pools. Some things said on here are just ridiculous. If someone wants to drive a car that isn't kept up they will. Just like everything police do will not stop someone from dealing drugs or illegal activity if they want to. Why will this make people keep their cars up to standards?

I never said Do not have police, nor did I say we shouldn't fight crime at all. I was replying to his comment that this would stop people from driving uninsured or safer. I'm pro police. I am simply stating that this new technology will not stop people from driving crappy cars around the city. It will simply be another reason for police to pull people over. How will we know if their computer says theres something wrong with my car? I am trying to simply point out what I see as flaws. Just like my friend getting pulled over in the west side at 4 am after driving to pick up our friends from the bar. Drives by a cop in a busted up car, gets pulled over. Cop says how much have you been drinking? Where do you go to school- Buff State. O so you do drugs? alot of drug activity. after 40 min outside our house and realizing nothing is wrong gives him a tint ticket when he has no tint on his windows. I just feel that this technology will just give them more reason to pull people over with out cause.

Jolopy - Spitzer? Very funny. You're right, it won't make people get insurance on their cars. But for those who choose not to get insurance, it will get their cars impounded. And your comparisons are a little silly - to say just get rid of driving altogether because it's dangerous and compare it to the police using technology to enforce existing laws is a bit of a stretch.

And I never said this will stop people from driving uninsured or safer. But it will help the police catch those who do and get their cars off of the road.

I usally find that the ones who complain about extra police, street cameras, and the so-called 'Big Brother' are the ones who don't follow the rules/laws. If you did obey, you wouldn't be complaining about this. I say, Bring in MORE COPS in this city as we need some to walk the streets and respond to calls faster. We are limited in this city right now and they have to use such devices as these extra cameras.

first id just like to say that i think this is a good thing, sure if your car gets hit it will be covered thanks to no-fault, unless you dont have collision insurance. and dont forget that you have to pay your deductible even though you were sitting at a light and this person with an unregistered, uninsured, car hits you from behind. (i only know this from experience) Second: lightofthemoon, the repair shop should have told you of the exemption to emissions inspection if the cost of the parts is more than a certain amount and also the car manufacturer is required to warranty the emissions stuff for some insane amount like 8 years or somthing like that. If the people cant register, insure, and have a car inspected like the rest of the population has to then why shouldnt they get caught? Inspections are about emissions and SAFETY. I worked in a repair shop for a long time and I saw some of the cars that came in for inspection. Especially problems with brake lines and brakes themselves. These are the people slamming on their brakes because they didnt notice you stopped to turn left. States like florida that dont have inspections will immediately write you a $150 ticket if you have one brake light bulb out. If you have one out here in ny you have til sundown of the next day to prove that you got it fixed and you dont get a ticket. Depew police dept has a policy that when they are at a red light they must run the plate of the car in front of them manually. I have a friend that got caught because of that and i didnt feel bad for him at all. Why should i pay my 50 bucks every two years for registration and 21 every year for inspection and god knows what for insurance when somebody could drive around for nothing. If i could tell that somebody didnt have their car registered id report it to the police myself!

Manski-

Public Safety is about preventing someone from slamming into your loved one. Once they are hit (given their is someone at fault) the public safety has been breached. It does not matter whether an at-fault party was insured.

By the way, how many accidents do we really think are caused by a lack of automobile upkeep? As you state, it is the "potential harm." What is the potential harm? How does an expired registration cause an accident?

Biniszkiewicz-

The Guliani comparison is dead wrong. Operation Impact is indeed supposed to use the Rudy strategy. The problem is, license plate scanners do not fit the "Quality-of-Life," "Nuisance crime," categories as defined by Rudy's successful campaign. If the scanner is only going to be used in areas that have high violent crime rates, I will back off on my arguments as that was another qualification for Rudy's program. (And a Qualification to receive Operation Impact funds. Buffalo, in fact, receives the most as we have the most serious crime in the state outside of NYC.-12% of all crime outside NYC)

Looking further into the numbers, we can see that in 2007 violent crime in Buffalo increased by 7% even with Operation Impact programs being used (should be read as misused). Syracuse was down 5.5% Albany was down 24% and Rochester was down 13.9%.

http://www.criminaljustice.state.ny.us/crimnet/ojsa/impact/2007annualreport.pdf

If McVeigh didn't have plates to scan.....

The turnstile jumper fit the QOL/ Nuisance crime descriptions.

Lets pretend we have a good example of scanners busting a murderer or mass murderer as opposed to the 2 above. Sure you can get lucky, but you're panning for gold, and judging everyone guilty first

http://www.criminaljustice.state.ny.us/crimnet/ojsa/impact/2007annualreport.pdf

Paul-

I answered your question promptyl

"Paul, First off, you act as though speeders and those with expired registrations were not caught prior to the advent of radar and license scanners. You also seem to imply that the scanners will bust bad guys and increase public safety."

Plus we also now know that the Oklahoma City Bomber was apprehended without proper registration.

Let's also take a look at the "lack of crime," in NYS. According to Operation Impact-

"New Yorkers live in the safest large state in the nation, and the fifth safest overall, behind only a handful of relatively small states. Over the past 16 years, the crime rate in New York State has decreased 61 percent, and violent crime is down 63 percent."

Fact is, there are only a few areas in NYS where violent crimes are an issue and we lead the way. If that changes due to a jihad on registration/inspection/insurance lapses, I will buy you dinner at the restaurant of your choice. Of course, if you must count on this gadget's success you are gonna get awfully hungry.

paulbuffalo-believe it or not police rely on the radar gun as their second means of speed enforcement. Their first? Their eyes. According to state troopers, they are supposed to estimate their speed by eye(which is a requirement to pass the academy) and then use the radar as a confirmation. Thats why the argument that the radar is not calibrated is not effective in court.

GDC-

"I usually find that the ones who complain about extra police, street cameras, and the so-called 'Big Brother' are the ones who don't follow the rules/laws. If you did obey, you wouldn't be complaining about this. I say, Bring in MORE COPS in this city as we need some to walk the streets and respond to calls faster. We are limited in this city right now and they have to use such devices as these extra cameras"

You are correct GDC, bring in more cops. There is no greater deterent to crime than cops walking a beat. Unfortunately, your wishes face a great deal of obstacles from the cops that are already here. Many are to old to physically perform yet can't be forced to retire, the system is built to create overtime as opposed to hiring more officers, the city looks for technologies to place a band aid on these issues as opposed to fixing the core problems.

As for those complaining typically being guilty of something; If you have never received a violation/infraction or if you simply enjoy them, that is your right. However, please allow the rest f us to exercise our right to be ashamed at where our country has landed.

(As an aside, anyone see Ricky Gervais call us a third world country on Letterman last night-bang on)

Computernut23-

" If the people cant register, insure, and have a car inspected like the rest of the population has to then why shouldnt they get caught? "

Take a look at the quote from the Director of Operations-

“Sometimes it’s not the owner’s fault,” says Derenda. “They’ll get their license suspended and not know it. The other thing that happens often too is people will change insurance and not fill out the proper paperwork.” Overall though, Derenda says, “I think it’s a positive thing, I really do.”

You can almost hear her trying to convince herself.

By the way, NYS is one of only three states that doesn't allow you to doenload your insurance documentation online. This creates a more time consuming process increasing the likelihood of incidents involving owners who are not at fault. Unfortunately for these folks, they are presumed guilty, therefore must go to court, most likely missing work and creating court costs that can't be recovered. Lest we forget, this person won't even get an apology let alone reimbursement for their aggravation

"Estreet, I'm stating directly that these scanners will increase public safety because they will process many more lapsed registrations, etc."

Can anyone provide an example of a lapsed registration causing bodily harm?

Registration provides 2 things-

1. A tax for the State's coffers (This is why also why there is an expiration) 2. An ability to track someone

If someone causes an injury they can be tracked via these means if they were to run. I wonder what the number of hit and runs with bodily harm versus the number of accidents with bodily harm where the driver stays put is. Probably a very small percentage, and once again, the public safety has already been breached.

The only way tracking can improve public safety is if we assume that if there were no registration everyone would be in the streets attempting to hit each other. The tracking would be argued as a deterrent.

I thought this technology was going to be based on RFID in either the inspection or registration sticker. Before you monkey with your license plate, you may want to take a razor to those stickers. Catching a radio signal would be a lot easier (less expensive) than a pivoting camera that detects what's a vehicle, and then locates the plate, then reads it. They may be telling us one thing, but employing a different technology all together.

As with most things in life, it comes to money

Opportunity is the only thing that prevents crime. Not enforcement. Lets not forget how much money from Viacom, Disney and everyone else went into Guliani's program.

Here's a suggestion, mandatory retirement for police officers who are unable to perform at an acceptable level. Spread the savings from those salaries (typically over 100,000 per) among new hires in the force. Expand the force using part time officers and require all city employees to live within city limits. Get rid of all personal cars or use them as a carrot to convince officers to live in certain areas of the city. (as we know, if a cop lives on your block, odds are the crime will be low)

Of course the first thing we must do is take back the city from the unions. Use Bush tactics, it's about security after all. the unions are welcome back once we blow them up, only now, they won't be likely to over-reach.

estreet - there probably hasn't been a case of a lapsed registration causing bodily harm, but I'd bet you that dinner that a lapsed inspection has (brakes and lights come to mind first). And yes in NYS those of us who pay for insurance are covered under no-fault, but who do you think pays for that? WE do, in the form of higher premiums. And as for "Public Safety is about preventing someone from slamming into your loved one. Once they are hit (given their is someone at fault) the public safety has been breached. It does not matter whether an at-fault party was insured." - I agree with you completely. And that's exactly what this technology will do, assist police to get uninsured drivers and uninspected cars off of the road thus preventing them from harming the rest of us.

manski-

We can't make the world perfect. We should be looking for a happy medium. How many of these lapsed inspection accidents (causing injury) would you perceive to be out there. Is it an epidemic? Why do some states not have inspection (should i avoid these states at all cost. Does the landscape in these lands of chaos remind one of thunderdome?), why is almost every state different in it's application of inspection qualifications (if a state indeed has one)

These are excise taxes, nothing more. Why must i pay $55 in surcharges on a seatbelt fine while someone who goes more than 25mph over the speed limit pays...wait for it....a $55 surcharge.