Buffalo Rising Online

I'm a little confused. This project is in addition to the Statler project or is it the Statler prject? I'm disoriented because I haven't been able to check out BRO in over a week.

Woo hoo!! I really hope nothing gets in the way of this exciting project. Now it's time for the owners of HSBC center to redo the exterior because I don't know why anyone would want to buy office space in that ugly building now that it will no longer have the best views in the city. I picture an all glass facade for it also. This is going to spark some major competition among city developers. I can see it now.

I have two questions...there is a lot of talk about office space in this tower being filled by a company based in Toronto or NYC. There has been plenty of office space(I believe somebody recently said current vacancy was at 20%) for the taking over the last decade or more in downtown. If a company was going to expand to Buffalo from Toronto or NYC, wouldn't they have done it in the past?

Also, is there a market for condos STARTING at 500k? What is the current value of an average condo in the waterfront village?

Thanks!

I think the vacancy rates include class B and class C space. Class A space is lower. I'm not 100% sure on that assesment. But you need a signature tower with some prestige to attract a big player. Maybe one of the upstart banks in the region might consider a move into this kind of space in order to announce their arrival?

That 20% office vacancy # is total including all classes of space. For Class A space, the most desirable, I think it was less that 3.5% which is very low. The office space proposed for the tower would be Class A. Condos in Waterfront Village usually run between the mid-$300k range to around $600k, so there is precedant.

thestip...thanks for the information.

In response to Ken:

Office vacancy rates in the upper teens are those of Class B and C. Class A vacancy rates are in the single digits. Whether companies want to relocate from another city is another question. However, Canon relocating from G.I. is just one example of what can be done locally. Not getting tenants from other downtown buildings, but instead from the suburbs...further strengthening the downtown core...and in turn the region.

Waterfront condos have exploded in value, with the recent sale one one of them over 1 million dallars. New construction on the waterfront condos has been in the 500k range, as well. Additionally, Unilands Gates Circle project was originally announced to incl. units around 300k. After further research for this project, they too, have decided to go "upper end." The demand for condos 500k may not be HUGE...but perhaps strong enough to fill what is being proposed...since the demand has been unmet.

Ken,

A waterfront condo recently sold for 1 million, but more common is 350-650K. It seems agressive but so does $1500/mos lofts and those are nearly all rented. I think developers and enterpenures have underestimated this market for years. Quality sells, look at the Mansion, Bacchus, Chophouse, and all those swank lofts. We have been undersold for decades because of an image that we are a working town filled with football crazy men in bowling shirts. Buffalo is an untapped market for so many businesses.

I agree. for years, Buffalo was always served by the merchants of the cheap. There was a massive market that went underserved. I think the condos will attract people that have moved to the suburbs, but now have empty, big homes and want to move back downtown. and let's face it, Buffalo has needed a higher end hotel too. Condos like that out here in San Francisco would go for no less that 1 million and some would approach 3-4 million easily, depending on size.

Any pictures of what this looks like at street level? (main entrance, parking egress, etc.)

Anyone know the height?

Does anyone know if this will take up the entire Elmwood Ave. side of the block or just the corner? And, any Major Retailers planned for the first floor or just takers for now?

I Absolutely LOVE this "21st Century look on Buffalo".....Much success to this developer and his vision for the city...

Positives to look at:

Not tearing anything down Not building over a street Built right to the street Urban design MODERN

No complaints here.

Off topic, but doing some goolging came up with this: an article from 1983 NY Times about the Guaranty restoration. Canon Design was also involved as the architects for it. Interesting read.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9502E2DC1438F933A15751C1A965948260

I think it makes the sky line pretty ugly

what ever happened to L?

Renderings usually look pretty ugly against the existing skyline. And what kind of comment is that?

So let me get this right. Issa plans on building this new tower AND still going ahead with his plans for the Statler???

The Statler condos are at the 250k range.

This is in addition to the Statler. The Statler has more of a residential focus - the new building has a lot of office and takes adv. of the views at the top for the rest.

Issa has a worldwide network and companies from NYC and Toronto never had space like this to choose from before in Buffalo - that is why they'll come here. The HSBC is almost 100% rented as is most Class A office space. The difference here is that this will be five-star. Issa is the man! Also I think the tower is actually 48 stories - I think the News got it wrong.

What did ever happen to "L"? Tolerance training after his rants?

I could see the plan for the statler hotel getitng scrapped and move to more office space and condos. This new building gets the hotel.

I love it! Truly Iconic and will send the message that Buffalo can be a great 21st century city.

Hopefully all this new hotel space will send the Hyatt packing their bags, so their oversized vestibule can be removed and that portion of Genesee st. reponened.The Adam's mark can stand to take a hike as well.

This is amazing. I never thought I'd see the day - the first major addition Buffalo's skyline in over 35 years. If it gets built, it will certainly boost the collective self-esteem of the city.

Can't comment. Damn Akismet. :(

The first major addition to Buffalo's skyline in 35 years. I am absolutely elated. Wish my previous comments weren't intercepted as spam.

I think it's a great project, but it seems overly-ambitious. I hope Issa has done his homework. There's a lot of residential, retail, office, and hotel space planned for Downtown. I don't fancy myself a naysayer, but I'd like to see what a market study shows about the ability of Downtown to absorb several hundred high-end condos, equally as many new hotel rooms, lord knows how much retail space (if you haven't noticed, Downtown is not exactly a shopping mecca), and more than a million square feet of office space. In addition to Issa's glass tower and the Statler renovation, there is growing interest in Downtown from the Acquest-Uniland tag team, which has similar plans for the Dulski building. They have already completed one project (Niagara Center) in the same 4 or 5 block area. While no single project boasts the amount of space that I mentioned, if you combine them all, it adds up fast. This "new wave" of development could flood the market and wash more than one developer out of town. I understand the momentum that has been building in Downtown, but I'm not sure if Buffalo is ready to get hit all at once with this much new space. Unfortunately, I think the first horse out of the gate is going to win here. [comments appreciated]

B-E-A-utiful! As far as aesthetics, I really like it and I think it FINALLY gives some balance to the skyline. Iconic is definately a good describer since it's ultra modern look definately is a striking difference to the majority of the exhisting architecture. And the way it plays off the proposed federal building? WOW, very nice! The use of underground parking is a resounding plus as well as the addition of street level retail. With the uprise in places to live downtown, such businesses could stand to do well. Also, I agree that Issa's no fool and most definately has already established outside interest in the building. I seem to remember reading in an article that he already has ~100,000 sq. ft. tentatively leased -- that's half way to the "40% mark"...well, for office space anyways. I'm excited!

bidell911 I can't imagine that Mr. Issa would consider this without extensive market analysis. You don't put together ambitious projects like this on a whim. If they have the 100k in space pre-leased at this stage, wait until the full markting blitz hits. I can understand the concern, but I think Class A space is at a very low vancancy rate i nthe city now. They can fill this. The hotel is what I am more concerend about. There sem to be several that are considered now and I think the vancancy rate is high there.

bidell911,

downtown residential market analysis, complements of the Tony-Bag-A-Donuts administration, circa 2004:

http://www.city-buffalo.com/Home/Leadership/City_Departments/Office_of_Strategic_Planning/DowntownBuffaloResidentialMarketAnalysis

for a quick fix, download the executive summary and read pp. 5-6. it says the downtown market can absorb the sale of 50 attached single family, 57 detached single family, and 108 condos (as well as 160 rental units) per year for 5 years. though the prices announced today are a bit above what is proposed in the study, how many for sale units have been bult since the report? 0.

enjoy the read.

Issa was very clear at the press conference that this project is not a replacement for the Statler. The Statler was the building that got him into the Buffalo market and he is committed to it. I understand that he has already let a million dollar plus contract for elevator upgrades.

He clearly has a vision for a Downtown where his projects, and the others existing and planned, work symbiotically bringing new tenants whose employees will need a place to live, and where these new residents will need places to shop and be entertained.

Thinking about it, It would be nice if it were closer than 5-6 blocks from the light rail. Imagine if the convention center were knocked down, this put in its place with Genessee opened back up from Washington to Niagara Square.....yummy.....

Issa could connect it right to the Statler.

Does Issa have any interest in building a convention center/bass pro if we give a $60m head start?

Just dreaming within a dream..... =)

Although I live in the preservation district adjacent to this project, I feel the aesthetics will be complimentary. Love it, as a matter of fact.

Hopefully, this project will provide an added "ooomph" to the West Village Renaissance Group's desire to see the South Elmwood corridor become more user-friendly.

Welcome, Issa!

> Thinking about it, It would be nice if it were closer than 5-6 blocks

> from the light rail.

Maybe. One of downtown Buffalo's faults is that it is very linear, stretching along a narrow corridor with Main Street at the center. Compare this to most other US cities, even Rochester and Cleveland, where the CBD is more or a solid cluster. Maybe this project, if it's built, will give Buffalo's long downtown some width as well.

This project is going ot kill the urban landscape/fabric of this city.

Furthermore, the new building will be encroaching on the Pizza express right across the street. It has been there for 50 years - all of our relatives have had a slice there at some point.

No to mention, this grand structure will overshadow the terracota fabric design of other buildings.

I am organizing a coalition to protest the construction of this building.

Sound familiar?

no money, while you at it, please organize some common sense.

I agree with Dan. Focusing too much on a single street is ridiculous. A 3-dimentional course of development will prompt fill-in development to occur.

Buffalo's business district should stretch out along the lake too. It seems that it is starting to do so with this and the HealthNow building.

Stevenjames716:

No Money was being sarcastic.

To be honest, I can't envision anyone protesting this. If teh preservation district, the mayor, and many others have given it their support... Besides, it works well with downtown and provides a signature look to the skyline. In fact, the distant look makes it look as though its the falls with mist coming up. Good luck Issa!

^Funny you say. The architect's inspiration was the falls.

I've accepted a position with a big NYC law firm right out of law school, but this makes me want to move back sooner rather than later, and compared to NYC prices, I would love to pay 500k for a condo in a signature tower

I think Buffalo hotel occupany is slightly ahead of the national rate and we are bypassed by several large events because we do not have enough rooms. Quality will sell. If these rooms in the Statler and the new tower are first rate people will come. From the falls, to shop, sports, theaters, they will come. And if our tourism bureau can get their funding back that will even help more

Does anyone know of an offical site for this tower?

and just imagine the view of this tower from oh...say about 15 blocks uptown on Elmwood.

wOw

I think this is wonderful and I only have one but....

but much of Linwood, Delaware, Elmwood and the West Village are historical districts and once the infill development is complete the city and its citizens and developers need to consider the other corridors: North-South 1) Niagara Street 2) South Park and Ohio 3) Main Street 4) Michigan and Jefferson East-West 1) Exchange (Larkin) 2) Genesee & Broadway 3) Division

I cant wait for the developers to find the other business corridors.

and while I never liked the HSBC Tower building over Main Street...I love the thought of corporate offices on Niagara Street being built over the Niagara Thruway. It would be a way of burrying the thruway and connecting the Niagara River back to Niagara Street.

I love the new Tower and the goal of bringing business from outside the area....but I hope that we can raise the awareness and value of our other corridors.

It doesn't make economic sense to build structures over the highway when so much open land is available right next to it. You only see over-highway construction is very congested areas like Manhattan. The FDR drive, the 190 isn't.

As for the HSBC building --- well, *I* like it! I have since I moved here. It says, "Hey, Buffalo isn't some backwater podunk town! We have modern buildings too!"

I also like the HSBC tower. When you drive toward downtown on the skyway at night and you can see all of the offices with employees, desks, flourescent lighting and ficus trees I get a sense of the spirit of the large scale corporate operation. It is sort of a human beehive or honeycomb. It is Buffalo's own version of the Seagram Building.

Manchester is a cost effective alternative to London as Buffalo is a cost effective alternative to New York City. Although Buffalo has the added advantage of being very close to Toronto. It's all about marketing. The numbers will speak for themselves.

Dan, who are you kidding about Rochester's Central Business District. There is no downtown Rochester of any sort in Rochester. Their city is choked off by the inner loop and the city of Rochester lacks any broad avenues, streets or boulevards that connect it with its inner city neighborhoods. Rochester has no East-West Corridors or North-South Corridors which is why most of the business community has abandoned downtown for the network of suburbs and small towns making Rochester a very inbred suburban conformist mindset.

Buffalo may be a poorer less educated city lacking in Fortune 500 companies but we (Buffalo) have a vibrant urban and urbane personality from the cultural community, to the sports and entertainment communities all the way to the residents and the developers.

Buffalo is based on a grid similar to Chicago interspaced with broad avenues connecting the downtown core to its suburbs. South Park runs all the way to Hamburg, Main Street (Route 5) runs all the way to Boston, etc.

Buffalo is a city on par with other medium sized cities like Cleveland and Pittsburgh and Baltimore in ways that Rochester will never be...and its a major reason why developers are returning to Buffalo.

It makes no sense to build in downtown Rochester choked off by the inner loop.....which is why new businesses increasingly choose as far away as the Finger Lakes while building in downtown Buffalo is increasingly making more and more sense.

> Dan, who are you kidding about Rochester's Central Business

> District.

Uhhh ... I was just talking about the SHAPE of the district.

Downtown Buffalo is shaped like this

_________________________

|________________________|

Most US city downtowns are like this.

________

|.................|

|.................|

|.................|

|_______|

Askimet HATES ME. Every one of my posts is blocked as being spam!

yes bruce, you missed the point.

and yes, Rochester's inner loop cuts off the downtown from the rest of the city. But look what I found:

http://rocwiki.org/Inner_Loop

Back to the main point: Focus less on Main St and you'll actually get foot traffic and in-fill development

Lets once againconsider ourselves blessed that Buffalo's inner loop never came to be....

Sure we lost Humbolt Parkway, got an expressway through Delaware park and Access to the waterfront blocked, but as in most cases, it could have been worse......

Finally, some excitement for Buffalo! The tower design is awesome and it will definitely infuse interest in rebuilding the City. For Cannon to take the initiative to relocate downtown, they must be real believers. Kudos to the architects. P.S. Hopefully, the powers that be will not put the kabash on this enthusiasm once again.