Buffalo Rising Online

Thanks Elena, for posting! You guys have been great supporters of the terminal in the past few years and we really appreciate it!

You can read my full "State of the Project" message here:

http://buffalocentralterminal.org/2008/05/state-of-the-project-message/

We should be proud of the progress so far. Anyone ever see the latest state of the Detroit Train Station? Closed in 1987 and is being left rot away and looks much like the BCT did 20 years ago. Keep up the good work everyone involved.

Mdweaver, thanks for the sentiments!

PS - That was me on the Doors Open day after the October storm!

I believe they are doing so much good in preserving this part of buffalo's history. As to be a completed project, when we are still struggling to get the city center completed/filled/rehabed, this one is decades away from being done. Second, location, location, [scarey]location. In the mean time it works as a quaint event's venue.

Thanks onestarmartin, but as CityView proved with the Larkin Company building (just a mile away), it can be done without waiting 20 years.

mmiller, while I see what you are saying comparing the two neighborhoods is like comparing Elmwood & Auburn to Main & Utica. Very different places. I worked on the CityView master plan and walked just about every street around their building until you hit Highway or Railroad Tracks. I also have walked around and am doing my thesis on the Broadway Fillmore / CT areas. You don't see the same problems as with the Broadway Fillmore / Central Terminal Area in the Larkin District. While low to lower middle income those areas in the Larkin District are stable working class communities. You don't see crime, vacancies and blight as in the CT area.

I am not saying it is gone or even scary but there are some very stark differences that while both are on the east side they are very different places and require different levels of effort to bring back.

Sbrof, you're absolutely right in your analogy. My comparison is valid in the fact that Doug Swift and CityView took a giant leap of faith in investing in the east side. He was told that he was crazy for doing so, and that no one would want to work on the east side, and now he has 1,800 tenants.

While the Larkin District and the terminal area are two different animals entirely, we have one important advantage: we are a completely self contained complex, not requiring anything additional from the surrounding area. We have a prominent and cloistered location, plenty of parking and acres available for additional development. The baggage building is about a 1/2 scale version of the Larkin Company building and offers development opportunities (open floor plates) that are very similar to Larkin, without even having to tackle the larger issue of redeveloping the main concourse.

"Being a bit ignorant about the past of the BCT (my apologies) I am wondering what used to be located on the higher floors of the building's tower? I am also wondering if there are any Long term plans to put anything on those higher floors?"

The building at one time was entirely made up of New York Central employees, police, taxi service and vendors and numbered 1,100 at its max. The upper floors were offices and in later years, rented out to non-rail companies. Much of it was unused for the past 30 years, as bills of lading and damage complaint forms from the 70's still litter a few of the floors. Due to the water damage, the elevators don't work, rendering cleaning and reuse of these floors pretty difficult (not impossible though - see the "plans" part of the interview).

Go Mike Go!

Mike, I thought you were the guy from CityView?

About the October 2006 storm mentioned earlier, I was also at the terminal that day, but in the morning, with the Canal Society of NYS (in Buffalo to celebrate the 50th anniversary of our founding at the Lafayette Tap Room), and we had the unforgettable opportunity to hear Russ Pawlak give the extended backstory of the terminal's preservation. It's an amazing story, and we collectively hung on every word. Russ was a tremendous sport that day, because he had lost power at home, and made an above-and-beyond-the-call effort to meet us. Filling Russ' larger-than-life role at the terminal will be a big job, but from what I know of Michael Miller he's very much up to the job and more!

The rescue of the BCT by the dedicated folks of the CTRC is an ongoing preservation success story of national significance - something any city could, should, and would be proud of. If you've never been to the terminal for an event, tour, or to help out on a work day...well, whatever you do, make time this year and you'll never forget it Last year on a 'member's only' tour with Mark Lewandowski we got to visit the observation deck for about an hour - one of the most amazing spaces and views you'll find anywhere. Visit. Join. Volunteer. In any order. You won't regret it.

Oh - if Elena will allow me a second comment - a funny story about the landmark status of the terminal: I was meeting one of the terminal volunteers for coffee earlier this year, and I took him a copy of one of the letters that was included with the original National Register application for the terminal (done in the early 1980's, perhaps at the behest of previous owner Fedele?). I couldn't stop laughing when I first saw the letter, from a vice-president at Conrail, who was clearly very unhappy at the prospect of landmark status for the building. The gist was that the terminal was just another brick commercial building, that Buffalo is already full of those, and that anyway there's absolutely nothing of historic or architectural significance about it to recommend it to the Register - in Conrail's view! Outrageous.

Well, Conrail is now on the scrap heap of transportation history, and the terminal is surviving and thriving - hurrah!

the progress this group has made over the last few years is tremendous. I remember thinking and just wondering how long until this building found the same fate as the Larkin Admin building or the German Insurance company.. then once CTRC got hands of it everything seemed to change. Fantastic job and I guarentee there is a PBS show or two of national significance at the end of this tunnel. Surely other cities celebrate much smaller tasks. This is and continues to be a great enterprise.

RaChaCha,

That National Register Nomination is a great view into history. Unfortunately the State Historic Preservation Office didn't do its job in 1981 when the passenger concourse was severed. Since the building was eligible for listing and owned by Conrail all changes should have been reviewed and that demolition should have been denied. Not surprisingly, the passenger concourse is now owned by Amtrak which has the federal obligation to maintain the property, which of course it can't do as its not funded.

As far as the landmark status, remember its technically on the National Register but is not a National Historic Landmark. It may seem like splitting hairs but the titles have very real effects on grant opportunities. I spoke with the SHPO field office rep last year about the possibility of listing the building as an NHL and she basically laughed it off. I guess that's what happens when you've been the buraucrate of record for 30 years.

mike,

I am glad you guys have an eye toward saving the baggage building as well. That part of the complex is a real overlooked and forgotten treasure. I though it was probably doomed especially since it is in the worst condition.

IS City View even interested in working on the Terminal Complex? I can picture this being a grand office destination with attractions/retail/restaurants on the lower level.

Nick, great backstory about the concourse link demolition - a lot of vewy wascally stuff happened to the terminal over the years, and those from all levels of government who were either asleep at the switch, turned a blind eye, or left the door unlocked have a lot to answer for.

NHL designation is indeed misunderstood (many people immediately think Sabres) sometimes even in preservation circles - it's a fairly rare and very special category of designation. My Fair City has exactly two NHL's: the Susan B. Anthony House and the George Eastman House, Buffalo has several, and where you are (thinking of Your Fair City has me craving cheesesteak, and it's only 6AM!) I could only guess. While I'm not an expert on the criteria, like you I think of the terminal complex as potential NHL material.

Thanks WCP, my good friend! And Harvey: yes, I AM the CityView guy, Doug Swift, during the daylight hours. :)

Steel, we've always thought that the baggage building was the best place to start a phased redevelopment. That and the attached 2 story mail building have always been in our plans.

RaChaCha, I was at the Saturday Doors Open day, when only mdweaver showed up. Russell was there on Sunday. Thanks for the well wishes!

Doug Swift from CityView very graciously has offered his help and support. We gave him a two hour tour of the concourse, the tower and the baggage building. He has so many projects going right now, he doesn't have the time to take on another monster project. But he does believe it's possible and has offered his help.

RaChaCha, remember, the 1980's were mostly pre-preservationist years. Very few buildings were considered important enough to save. Thankfully, time has changed that!

Sbrof: "Surely other cities celebrate much smaller tasks. This is and continues to be a great enterprise. "

Thank you very much! I've always thought that our group of amazing people and the job they've done for the past 11 years, is the greatest story never told.

Thanks David! We've had a lot of fun with Red Scream over the last few years. We'll have to talk more about the third floor!

I just want to assure everyone also, that our event season will continue as planned. Our team is well experienced in event planning and we are all the same people who have been doing it for the past 5 seasons. Our biggest challenge is predicting how much of everything we'll need, as the attendance continues to grow rapidly each year! We hope to see you all this summer. Check our website for details.