Mapping Out The Bills Downtown
BRO Reader Submission by Jason Pieszala:
I was reading the post about the Rich Stadium location debate so I thought I’d spend the time to map this out. I mapped out each of the suggestions that kept the Bills in the US. In the maps, I included both the stadium and the field house, but did not include any allowances for parking. I’m not a cartographer so that was a little outside my capabilities considering my time constraints.
My personal favorite considering the map would be the Ohio St location. It’s best for the city because it brings even more people (granted only for those games) to the cobblestone district it is within the proposed metro loop, would be near the HSBC Atrium and provides easy access to the 190 and 33. Parking is pretty ample near by and with the HSBC Arena, an eventual convention center, the casino and a stadium, it would put a lot of big limited use buildings in one place and they can share access to the multiple parking structures that would eventually have to be built. Furthermore, they would provide easy access to the inner harbor and push for more development of the outer harbor and expansion of metro to NF, Airport and Southtowns.
I realize that metro doesn’t allow for tailgating, but it would take those who don’t tailgate off the road and allows people like me who won’t go because they would have to deal with the traffic a means to avoid that pitfall. This site also is more appealing to the NFL for a Super Bowl due to the number of outside activities available for visiting patrons (bars, restaurants, hotels, stores (inner harbor). This site also adds one more reason to build the high speed rail. It also provides Buffalo the possibility of drawing some Olympic events should Toronto ever get an Olympic Games and would be a better venue for concerts and the like.
For the Bills, the site does not offer immediate benefit except that it will no longer be in the middle of the snow belt and will be easier for those Canadians willing to drive, but if the Bills are looking toward the future, it offers many advantages. If high speed rail were to happen to Toronto &/or Albany, it would be along this corridor. In the short term an Amtrak and its Canadian equivalent could start/continue the Bills trains. Ridership would increase because this removes the need to be bussed to the stadium. Typically in mass transit, a rider will only transfer their mode of transport twice and this explains why the current train is limited in it’s ridership because they go from their car (to get to the station) to a train to a bus to having to walk to the entrance. One big downside to this is that the scenery nearby is not good. It could make for some ugly shots of the city when ESPN shoots the aerial of the stadium – At least until the outer harbor is rebuilt and somebody figures out what to do with those grain elevators. I’d almost say give them (for free) to any company willing to convert them to a hotel. Also, If my memory serves me, this where the zoo was to go and the 1st Ward shot that down, I doubt they’d be more receptive to a stadium.
The Perry Street site offers the same advantages except that it’s a bit further away so sharing parking structures is a bit more cumbersome. This site makes for a slightly better TV shot for a national audience. Redevelopment around the stadium here would be more difficult as the lots near by are occupied and often by homes.
The outer harbor has many locations that have enough land for the stadium, but I don’t believe it lends itself well to this sort of use. Putting it right on the outer harbor gives our best views to a building used only 12 days a year and its occupants would be watching the game anyway. Those national TV shots of the stadium from the lake with downtown in the background would be breathtaking though and alone make it worth considering. Parking couldn’t be shared and there would be a lot of prime real estate used for parking. I thought about moving inland a bit (which is why you see two stadiums) in order to encourage outer harbor development and support the guys who bought freezer queen, but if you reserve the land west of Rt 5 for development there is limited space for parking. Either way, there is limited transportation infrastructure (highways & current passenger rail corridors) in the immediate vicinity. That pushes everyone onto route 5 and ensures that the Skyway sticks around for a while.
The last one mentioned in the posting was Niagara Falls. A specific location was not mentioned so I used Google Earth to find a fairly empty plot of land. The closest I could find was an area bounded by Falls St, Rainbow Blvd, John Daly Blvd and Memorial Pkwy. This site provides proximity to the casino which again could share some parking structures and gives people some place else to go before/after the game. There is plenty of land to build parking structures on the old Niagara Splash site. Transportation is a bit more limited as there are no Interstates here. The chief roadways are The Robert Moses, Rainbow Blvd and Niagara St. John Daly Blvd would have to be extended N to Portage Rd. For the Canadian fans, this works out very well as the Rainbow & Whirlpool bridges could be utilized for quick access to the stadium. Furthermore, it advertises our biggest tourist attraction, the falls. The falls would also help us land a Super Bowl and makes the game a big draw for the NFL. This location might also help the Niagara Falls International Airport land an airline like Skybus. The aerial shot on ESPN of the Falls and the stadium would be neat too. Plus with the relatively limited amount of snow NF gets, it would certainly help with our snow image. A stadium located here could again help WNY draw some Olympic events should Toronto be awarded the games. For the Bills, the big plus is access to a Canadian fan base.
The last option I discovered as I was scrolling on Google Earth from Buffalo to NF. It’s a plot of land in Tonawanda where the I-190 & I 290 meets by the GI Bridges. It appears that there is plenty of land for parking, the view is less than perfect due to the petrochemical storage but I’m sure that can be mitigated somehow. The chemical storage also presents a terrorism threat that would have to be considered. It provides great highway access. There is a rail spur there, but I’m uncertain if it would be useful for metro. Furthermore, it encourages a northern metro line. For the Bills, this location might boost attendance by Canadians as this is certainly closer. It might aid with Rochester and Lockport as well.
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halljd39
The outer harbor one looks the best interms of the awesome views of the rivers.
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flyguy
Perry Projects!!!! Anyway wasnt the Ohio Basin where the Buffalo Zoo was proposed and fought to the death resulting in another dead project in Buffalo? Apparently thats sacred ground so beware of locating anything there ecxept for vacant overgrown industrial wastelands and whatever else might be over on that site.
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carlmalone
What about the Elmwood Village? Seriously is this an exercise in futility. Have I missed something or are they going to build a new stadium. Just as a fyi: I don't think so.
The National Football League is in the business of making money. As we live in a capitalistic society, this tends to make perfect sense, but the choise of locations doesn't anymore. Two words: corporate boxes. Two more words: unsold here
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flyguy
Do I see yet another reason why we as a community should support a new AMTRAK Station downtown? Something of some significance perhaps? Hmmmm lets see that rail line runs adjacent to most all the new developments that could happen in that area like the Cobblestone District, Inner Harbor, Outer Harbor not far off, HSBC Arena, Casino, Elk Lofts, Coffee Rich Lofts, a new stadium? Convention center? Hmmm. how about a station worthy of our city? That may boost amtrak traffic to the queen city from the Syracuse/ Rochester/ Binghamton corridors alot if you consider the fans further downstate. Bring them right into a new station of some significance and they have all those resources within a walk and if thats not enough you have and expanded metro rail to bring them up to Chippewa, the outer harbor. Heck ESD is locating in the Cobblestone area now so that should be economic development central for upstate. I can see the ESD guys and site selectors/ investors/ developers etc. coming right up that train line back and forth between Albany/ New York City/Buffalo. Friggin awesome is what i'm thinking. LETS DO IT!!!!!! SOON!!!!!
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chris69
I THINK THAT ANY DISCUSSION OF A BILLS STADIUM SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM THE WATERFRONT AND THE COBBLESTONE DISTRICT!!!! THESE DISTRICTS HAVE TO MUCH POTENTIAL AND VALUE FOR A PART TIME USE BLANK WALL FACILITY.
If there is a waterfront location then consider Lackawanna...it has more than enough brownfields that could be converted into parking lots plus highway access and it could easily be connected by rail and light rail.
but the section of Buffalo that lets face it needs a stadium is the eastside...so anywhere between the Larkin District and the Central Terminal is going to provide a significant impact to the redevelopment of the near eastside and it could easily be connected by rail and light rail. Perhaps a Bills Stadium could be linked to a merger between Buffalo and Lackawanna as part of a multimillion dollar development project that Lackawanna would not want to refuse.
The only thing deserving of a location adjacent to the water is a convention/conference/hotel center and even that should be at the southern end of the cobblestone district at a rewatered Ohio Basin so it is not prematurely obsoleted by development obstructing future growth and expansion.
Other than that, Buffalo has to think longterm and think about what areas have natural development value and which areas do not. Areas such as the eastside and areas such as Lackawanna would benefit from a stadium. The westside, northside, downtown and the cobblestone district already have large historical areas with natural development potential...to build a stadium there would be to refuse a future office building, museum, industrial site, etc.
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chiknlil
We can dream about mass transit and trains, but the reality is that the team makes a lot of money on parking. I am not convinced that putting the stadium in the downtown core is a good idea, especially for anyone who would like to see the Skyway and Niagara Thruway removed or the Kensington Expressway shortened or covered.
Let's find a place that is attractive, but protected from the weather. The last thing we need is the perpetuation of Buffalo as a cold wasteland whenever we are featured on national TV.
Wasn't there a plan to put a covered stadium in Lancaster, just south of the Thruway? What happened to that idea?
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Nusch
These sites are very tight, remember the mass of parking that comes with a 70,000 seat stadium. That parking typically takes the place of any existing buildings surrounding the site that would potential house restaurants or bars. Additionally, spinoff development would be minimal due to the fact that the stadium would only have 8-10 dates and little activity the other 355 days. Football stadiums are best in rural locations. Cleveland Stadium in downtown Cleveland is a waste of beautiful waterfront land.
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Spaulding97
NO TAILGATING!!!!!???
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bison716
I say Niagera Falls is our best bet!!! A Super Bowl is more likely to happen there, maybe the Olympics (winter-most likely) the fact that the "BUFFALO Bills" (remind you...BUFFALO) is asscociated with Niagera falls is great for our city, as long as we can figure a way to get rail from downtown to the stadium. Plus, we should advertise the hell out of it all thoughout our city and towards the Falls. Billboards, Plasma signs, all types of banners (BUFFALO BILLS -- This way!) The views would be by far the best compared to almost any sports stadium in the world! Imagine nighttime games, with the Falls lit up, Niagera Casino, Canadas Casinos, hotels, Clifton Hills in the background, it would be amazing. It would be Canada team. Just with the BUFFALO name brand on it. The area would florish for sure, thats a certain. I would rather have the Bills be in Niagera Falls than OP. Downtown is nice, but it is too costly. We need to make a move right away to keep our team in our region, and we just dont have the funds to do that right now or development to push this project. As long as the team is in driving distance, and is called the "BUFFALO BILLS" is all that matters to me. It wont help our city in the short-term, but it will diffently help our image big time! And with a good image, great driving distance to our neighbors, and natural wonders, maybe big-time developers will take a second look of what our region can offer and OUR CITY CAN BECOME WITH VISION!
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cdubmoo
Parking does not need to be directly next to the stadium. Look at colleges in the SEC. Many you have to park, and heaven forbid, walk or use public transportation for a few cit blocks. Put some decent parking close to the stadium, then the rest can use other city lots and hopefuly an expanded light rail to get to the game. How about we tailgate throughout the city, not just next to the stadium?
I believe the Ohio Basin or Perry Projects is the best option if we ever get a new stadium, as it has the best access from the 190, is the closest to the city, and will help spur future development along South Park and in the Cobblestone. (how about move the field house to the projects and then have the stadium next to a rewatered Ohio Basin?
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Biniszkiewicz
HSBC arena downtown is one thing (and even it, one quarter the capacity of a football arena, still requires a sea of parking). At least the arena is open lots of nights for lots of events. Even the baseball stadium is often used, albeit only in fair weather. So making an argument that those venues help build a vibrant downtown can be reasonably made. But a football stadium? 10 events a year? An mostly empty stadium does not foster ancillary development.
Carlmalone is right: this is a pipe dream: there is no revenue stream to pay for it (thank our lucky stars, else we'd screw up a big chunk of downtown). Spaulding is right, too: the tailgate is half the reason to go. The stadium we have, located where it is, is pretty close to perfection to my mind. No need to replace it. Just go to a game and enjoy!
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tonyarmani
I personally like the Philadelphia system (yes we could use philadelphia as a model) where they have the football stadium, baseball diamond, hockey arena, and basketball arena all in a large square. Parking is inbetween and along all sides. Many people here are correct to point out that there is not enough money IN BUFFALO to pay for all of the corporate suites but I am sure between Northern Ohio, Western PA, WNY, Rochester, and Southern Ontario/Toronto you could find enough people. I am also quite sure that Albany would do whatever it had to to keep such a large tax base in NY, being the state's only Football team...
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flyguy
I dont think the fact that the Bills wasnt successful last year selling many tickets had ANYTHING to do with the Buffalo market other than the fact that people were sick of seeing the team hyped up only to experience another losing season. This city is looking for a winner, its wants to win the big games, doesnt want to go home time and time again with its heads hung low. The fact that the tickets may not have been bought up has as much to do with the Bills organization and their play the past 5 or 6 years as anything else. You cant blame the Buffalo market for a poor performing team with numerous head coaches coming and going, endless quaerterback controversy, and players who go out of their way to make stupid comments about the city their fans represent. This whoa is me the Buffalo market is too small is BS. If they had a team to watch the past few years you know that place would be packed and yes even the corporate boxes. If I were an exec trying to have a good time and entertain potential clients, etc. I might think twice about buying a box for a losing team. They dont have to win the superbowl every year but damn a decade of what we've had isnt really anything to show off either. Yea a year or two down happens but a whole decade? C'mon, people get turned off after awhile. Call it not being a diehard true fan, call it what you will but who wants to spend a whole day having fun over the course of 10 years only to be let down when the team hits the field? The Bills have a cherished place in WNY but I think they screwed themselves over over the years.
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bboozehound
ha ha ha....bison716....the Olympics?? c'mon now...that had to be sarcasm?? If not, maybe we can use the Bert Flickenger Center for the indoor skating stuff and Chesnut Ridge for the Super-G.....lol!!!!
Maybe we could even make Blasdell the Olympic village since its in between the two!!
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platt4
Are you sure that the scale remained the same when you PLOPPED the Ralph into the fantasy sites?
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AtwaterLouse
All you people advocating this - would you be willing to have millions in tax moneys build the stadium even if the Bills won't sign a lease to play in it? If we start building a stadium now, there's no guarantee there will be an NFL team here to occupy it when construction is completed. Wouldn't that be just brilliant.
As Carlmalone and Biniszkiewicz said, a new stadium is NOT something the Bills or the NFL are pushing for, or even willing to discuss at this point. The franchise here is in trouble because there's a growing gap between the corporate wealth in metro Buffalo and WNY vs. that of the top say 30 or so metro areas in the U.S. Even metros such as Cincinatti, Celveland, and Green Bay/Milwakee/Apleton are simply having a lot more corporations lining up to buy boxes than is happening here. If there were more of a market for corporate boxes that wasn't being met, then a new stadiums could make sense. But that's not the case.
Flyguy is way off base in his claims that Buffalo's market size is not a big problem. Even teams much crappier than the Bills (yes, there are some) are attracting corporate revenues much greater than what the Bills do. If it makes anyone feel better to deny that Buffalo has much fewer Fortune 500 and 1000 companies than other NFL markets, well great enjoy your denial.
From wikipedia:
I think Buffalo has 1 in F500 (M&T bank). ten for Cinic, one for Buffalo. And in F1000, maybe 2 or 3 in Buffalo, 18 in Cinci.
That's just Cinci, now imagine the Dallases, Houstons, and Altantas - and even the Seattles and St Louses and Charlottes. This is the problem.
The Bills planned emphasis on Toronto will hopefully improve the situation, but it will take a year or two to find out.
The next owner, whoever that is (and hopefully it's somebody who at least wants to try keeping the team in Buffalo), will eventually have to make the hard decision of whether to try upgrading the current stadium or to consider a new stadium. That owner might be willing to take a big long term risk and make a committment here, and that might or might not involve accepting some debt for a new stadium. That person will want a big say in matters such as stadium size, type and site. Rightly so.
As with many other things, what would help is if WNY and upstate could start attracting coprorate growth here. Oh hey, I know - maybe a new convention center would make companies want to locate here! Where does everyone think it should be? Can anyone draw some maps?
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impressingagent
unless they discover some new form of attraction, football will continue to be a big draw. I don't think any of your locations are worth building and its not because of parking availability but continuity and purpose.
I know its going to sound silly but i like the idea of surrounding the stadium with a few wind mills. It would create some kind of income when the stadium was not in use and send the right message, they could light them up for the games and use them with the regular stadium lights. (they could be architectural)
Design something like heinz field and give the fans a view of the water on one end and the connecting bridge to the inner harbor/main street on the other. Put it right where the ice boom is.It would not need to be as wide as the ralph because it would be taller. They could expand the canal concept and provide people with a mixture of well groomed plazas,docks and all connected to the metro for post game bar action.
Home field advantage would take on a whole new meaning and i like the amount of respect our fans have always shown. If they can just get that spirit back into buffalo. We don't need to have something used all the time to have it be important, who goes to the art gallery every day?
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mjman4
This is a no brainer, a stadium were the Pier used to be located...would be perfect. BUT who is goign to own the team long term, who will pony up the money for the luxury suites? how marketable would it be to cater to a southern Ontario clientel longterm?
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impressingagent
i will.
just kidding :)
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orlanmon
This would be a fantastic prospect but I have to agree with AtwaterLouse; Buffalo or for that matter WNY may not be able the keep the Bills here in the near future given the previous cited reasons but I certaintly hope this is not the case. I realize most of the funding that is being discussed here is more then likely priate but if for some remote reason any large sums of public money needs to be spent on this project I beleive a better long term investment would be allocatting funds for the creation of a series of large business development zones throughout dowtown and into metro. Within these zones captial could be spent in the demolition/restoration of existing structures, creation, repair, and, upgrade, of current street, sewer, utilitiy, and telecom infrastructure and finally get this zones designated as Empire Development Zones. With this in place I believe Buffalo can as mentioned above "attract coprorate growth"; and with that growth eventualy will come the enhanced business attraction and marketing potential, expanding corperate tax base, and economic stability. The county and state 60+ million that was handed out the last time the Bills were ready to find a new home would of been better spent preparing this region for future prosperity instead of an interim patch to delay the departure of our pro football team. If somehow Jm Kelly can find the corperate sponsors and investors to build a new stadium, keep the Bills here with private funding parralled with the above mentioned initatives then Buffalo and WNY would truly be blessed.
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bison716
Save us Jim Kelly. bboozehound,... meet me outside in 5 minutes!
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carl
Could you imagine the number of people there would be in the ohio basin/ perry district/ downtown, with this on a weekend... sabers game, 20,000 bills game, 74,000 major convention (given new convention center) 5-20,000 casino-5,000-10,000 misc event,concert, chippawa, bas pro etc.. 2,000-10,000 thats 114,000 people,
i would say down town would be back then.... no question.
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NewBuffalo
Build it downtown, reverse past STUPID decisions made. Parking? do you people think that other cities with less room to build do not have downtown stadiums? Give me a break! Cities of Buffalo's size need as much downtown as possible. That is why it is called DOWNTOWN, A CENTRAL PLACE TO MEET FOR EVENTS. We can give bass pro how much money? tell them to take a hike and put it towards a city owned stadium, and YES use it for OTHER events. Maybe a concert? I just love driving to Darien lake for concerts. That place sucks......
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RisingDamp666
Why not build stadiums at all of the locations above and let The People decide which ones they want to go to. That's the democratic way, isn't it?
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MJWorthington
If it were to somehow happen: Part of my thoughts would be to use it for UB Bulls home games also. Connect it to the metro rail (along with UB north)
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rydog71
Any stadium location downtown would need surface parking along with easy access. None of the locations above address those two needs. The Tonawanda one appears to but if I'm not mistaken that location is actually a landfill and not suited for large scale construction. The post that mentions the Pier could be the best downtown spot depending on the future of the Skyway. There is space for surface and ramp parking, close to the propossed waterfront development and could easily be added as location on the metro rail for those, such as this articles author who seemed to be oppossed to the tradition of tailgating.
Also any talk of a dome should be reconsidered. If cities like Chicago, Cleveland and Pittsburgh can build new stadiums minus a dome why wouldn't we? Would losing the elements, a major part of football, be worth trying to land a Super Bowl once every 12 years?
But for any of this to happen there needs to be new ownership with a dedication of keeping the team in Buffalo. And the people of Buffalo can't file friviously lawsuits to stop it.
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