Buffalo Rising Online

Please explain more about the Mill Race that is STILL under the larkin at Exchange....is it some type of water canal that was used to generate power or turn cams like a water mill?

Also my comment about the new buildings is...why couldnt they be 5, 6, 7, 8 or more stories....why just 4?

Also my comment about the district buildings....when are they going to do something with the Seneca Industrial Center and the other Larkin Buildings, especially their exteriors.

My comment about the district....PLANT SOME TREEs capable of creating a nice canopy AND HUMANIZE THE STREETS! Then take a lesson from the cobblestone district....but the cobblestones back in the streets, new sidewalks, curbs and turn of the century lamp posts/street signs.

My last comment is to think alittle bigger by reaching out in 3 directions: 1) reach back to the city and encourage connections to ECC downtown campus 2) encourage links at streets like Louisiana, Hamburg and Van Rensaeller to connect the Larkin District to the Cobblestone District. 3) encourage the light rail extension to the airport which will pass thru the larkin district 4) lets not forget that the Broadway Fillmore/Central Terminal is just a few blocks away. 5) you know the Larkin District and the Cobblestone District would be greatly benefitted if the Elm Oak Exits of the 190 were closed and one had to exit/enter at Hamburg. In effect replacing the Elm Oak Arterial with the Jefferson Arterial putting traffic on a whole host of waterfront, cobblestone, larkin and eastside streets!

I'm all for the expansion of city neighborhoods, but it always seems silly to me to brand a section of the city a new title before it actually becomes relevent. Was it called Chinatown in TO before the Asian immigrants arrived?

I am torn about the development, I love the design and historic feel, and Mr. Zemsky is a great business man. I am not convinced however that it is beneficial to Buffalo to dilute the central business district by putting up large complexes outside of it and drawing business away from it... I would feel much better if the draw of these building were drawing from the suburbs or out of town.

I think the point of branding this district is because of the rich layers of history that are present here that give it its unique infrastructure and context within the city. It is a branding because of the new developments.

The Distillery district in Toronto was nice, but mostly empty when I visited it a couple years ago. It still has a name because of the name reflects back to promote the future not vice versa.

This is a good vision for the area.

Chris69....WHAT IS YOUR OBSESSION WITH TALL BUILDINGS?!?!?!?!? Every comment you post about any building in the city is complaint that it needs more floors. BillyZabka....same to you with gripe over the height of the building. There is no minimum height requirement for buildings. If they build a structure that is full of tenants who are making money that is all that matters. You two think that every development needs to be some skyline altering super-project and that is rediculous.

Let's hope that the Larkin district is as sucessful as Crosspoint in bringing new jobs to the area.i

Thank you sleepl8, that mentality is acutally what go us a lot of the urban blight caused by "urban renewal mega projects" of the 1960's and 70's. They tore apart the urban fabric of american cities in an effort to be this bigger than life rediculous project, look at albany. This type of project is EXACTLY what buffalo needs to create some density at a human scale, its NOT IN DOWNTOWN. And as for it stealing businesses from the central business district do you guys ever think outside of buffalo, this project could create a draw for companies that are in the suburbs or godforbid someone look for tenants from beyond the limits of erie county.

Guys, it doesn't have to be a skyscraper to be part of "the City." Think of NYC's lower east side. It's damn close to the financial district and all its tall shiny structures, but the buildings top out at 5-8 stories for the most part.

Read the Buffalo News article on this. It surpisingly describes the development and History better without all the BS.

I would rather have a full city of 4 story buildings than an empty city of towers. We need streetscapes becuase they give people options, provide many places to eat, shop, relax, drink. We need to create a whole city. THEN lets worry about going higher.

Well, aside from the criticism that I like tall buildings...the big message from Buffalonians is that they would like to see the vitality of the Larkin District in other neighborhoods/communitys in the Buffalo area.

That is certainly something that Buffalonians, developers and the city should consider.....that we are spinning our wheels to much on the CBD and the waterfront....where nothing is happening....and ignoring the surrounding urban neighborhoods...well except for municipal and low income housing....like that really help!

Truly visionary! This has to be one of the best master-plans ever drawn up in Buffalo. I love the concept of a neo-industrial office district (with other uses too) mixed with a dash of Olmsted. It could become a truly Buffalo take on Portland's Pearl District or similar areas in other cities. Extend the light rail up there and this area is really going to be in business.

Already the Larkin District looks really impressive driving by on the 190 (yes, freeway views do have an effect on perception), just imagine what it will look like all lit up and at full buildout!

And for those comments that this will dilute the CBD...keep in mind that many of the businesses who have moved into LCo and ones that will likely move into the new office buildings are companies who would never really consider being in an old CBD in the first place. The Larkin District seems to do a good job at subtly hybridizing the feel of a suburban office campus and an post-industrial urban district. So imagine the next GEICO who comes to town; they probably don't want to be downtown, but would opt for the city instead of paving over an exurban greenfield if an opportunity like Larkin existed. Even drawing in suburban companies will help shift the tax base toward the city and contribute toward shifting the tide back to our ailing urban core.

The headline of the Buffalo News? Closing of more Catholic schools. News about the Larkin District development is tucked away in the business section. Heavy coverage of mundane Buffalo Diocese events, while practically ignoring potentially groundbreaking local news such as tiis ... so typical of the News in recent years.

The News , the great millstone around the neck of Buffalo metro. Contributes little or nothing to moving the area forward. On balance it is anti progress.

Dude, not sure your facts are correct. I saw a presentation on some projects a while back one of which was the Larkin Building. It stated that over 50% of the space was leased to businesses that moved from within the city of Buffalo. I know that figure could be misleading because it doesn't say from where in the city, but I think it is still an eyeopening statistic.

I completely agree that however that it is a beautiful plan. I think it could very well entice those seeking a more suburban feel into the city, and perhaps also keep those who might be looking to flee in the city. I am just not sold on that happening.

Spaulding: The city doesn't need to expand away from the core right now, it needs to strengthen the core to promote growth. Once there is density in the core then expansion of the core is beneficial, but expanding by taking density out of the CBD hurts the City.

I don't get it. People here are always complaining about lack of development and then when development is proposed they complain about that, too!! I think this is a good project but I agree with the other comment about landscaping.

Dan, so true. For some reason though the News always gives the Diocese undeserved headline spots all the time. and Ice, actually Tornoto did name it Chinatown before Asians came over, that's how much foresight they have.

Spaulding, I am a very pro-development person, I am not advocating in the slightest that Zemsky should not have the right to build what he wants. I am concerned about the effect on the CBD and I am not "finding something" to complain about. Look at the facts. The CBD has not taken care of itself, the business density has declined dramatically in the last 50 years, many building are vacant, there are many vacant lots in the core, and the office vacancy rate is extremely high. I fear the result of adding large amounts of office space outside the core only make those problems worse.

You make it sound like the "Larkin district" exists and we should be putting effort into reaching out to it, but IT DOESN'T EXIST, it is an idea! Why should we be concerned about building a new "district" when we can sustain the ones we already have?

That of course should read "can't sustain the ones we already have"

TBone, in theory what you say is correct. Building new office districts outside the CBD has the potential of stealing business away or preventing new business from moving into the CBD. But this has been happening for decades thanks to the gluttonous orgy of suburban office construction.

We've reached the point today where a large portion of the regional business culture still has vastly negative perception of downtown Buffalo. There's a lot of old political and social baggage still lingering there that turns off a lot of people and businesses. The sad and ugly truth is so many companies in WNY will simply refuse to even think about locating downtown. If fully realized, Larkin offers an alternative that creates a subtle hybrid between urban and suburban office environments--all with a few minutes of downtown. If light rail is ever extended to the Larkin district, there could be some synergy between the two areas.

In a perfect world every local office tenant would densely cluster downtown and create an awesome, vibrant urban atmosphere. But unfortunately that's not the way it works nowadays. Larkin sounds like a good way of making companies want to locate in the city again. Once the city becomes a trendy work address again, maybe more businesses will reconsider the downtown core.

Very cool, reminds me of the Meat Packing district in NYC. And for those of you who believe tall buildings are the answer, lets try and fill/refurbish the ones that sit vacant before we start building structures we can't fill...

Dan, Exactly. My thoughts too about 'The News' burying this story. Without the vision of the CityView group, most of the 98%-filled Larking Bldg. would be looking out of their Amherst bldgs.right now.

Chris69, sbrof, sleep8 and others said it well: 'human scale' is not highrises. If you want to create interesting residential neighborhoods, then go a bit shorter. There's no shortage of land in Buffalo driving a lot of upward growth. That will come (hopefully) in the future. Your suggestion to invigorate the streetscape with sidewalk, lighting, and tree plantings is great though.

Tbone, It's about floor plate size. Since our current CBD doesn't have large plates, but the industrial "Larkin District" bldgs does, what's wrong with taking advantage of demand? Nothing wrong with expanding the opportunity where it exists. Besides the Trico bldg. at Main/Goodell (that is in limbo/probate?), I can't think of any other old large plate bldg in downtown---unless you consider AM&A's hodge-podge configuration.

Dear Santa, All I truly want this Christmas, or any Christmas in my lifetime, is the re-creation of Wright's Larkin Admin bldg. Phase III anyone? One can wish, right? (I know, I know...the purists will scream, but I say a re-creation of the fallen icon is good enough.)

Urban body....I look at other cities and they all have a Central Business District....and they have smaller mini-cities or mini-urban districts around the periphery.....they dont really compete...infact they complement each other...creating choice....high density urban living downtown....medium density in the surrounding urban neighborhoods...and then surbuban.

UrbanBody, I tuly believe that your dream will eventually come true. I simply cannot believe that these developers could market the brand name Larkin and not have somewhere in the master plan the return of the FLW administration building. Its a huge gaping hole that needs to be filled...and I have a feeling that after the FLW Boathouse, Gas Station and Martin House....this is going to be put on the agenda as the jewel upon the FLW crown.

Im kind of laughing but I think that the BNE/BNP aka the Buffalo Niagara Chamber of Commerce should locate their offices in that building if rebuilt. Could you imagine a better building to market our region nationally and internationally than a nationally and internationally acclaimed world class building!

This is great! I am glad to see this area being developed again. I see a great future for our city!

You gotta love the way our own news paper portrays the region as dan pointed out. we need a second paper, anything could be better.

It makes sense that people are awry of development inside the city outside of the downtown core... the cbd is far from strong at the moment but in 5-10 yrs. will in my mind look like a different place. Bashars tower, m&t movement/restructuring, dulski, healthnow, statler, courthouse, bass pro, traffic on main... etc.

I like how Cityview is adding housing and retail to the mix... everycity has mini-districts that complement the downtown.. not only do "ideas" like this offer opportunity and variety for living/working/playing.. not every company wants to be located in a skyscraper environment. The feel and the money that could be made off this idea is endless....

And again its opportunities like this where badd ass developers come to an area thats oozing potential with money and a dream.. just think of the possibilities if this "larkin idea" would have came a couple of years earlier.

Nowadays businesses aren't only looking for affordable space but they are looking for character and quality of life.. the space available in the Larkin district and the open floor plans of the seneca industrial centre and the larkin building would have provided an interesting opportunity for "suburban office park prone" businesses to re-locate to a "downtown like environment" instead of out in east amhers in the middle of a forestt like Geico or Citibank.... successful cities have variety..