Buffalo Rising Online

Any idea what these mansions sold for? just curious

I would hardly call this a trend. The truth is that if Buffalo had lets say school vouchers and school choice so parents wouldnt get stuck in Buffalo public schools then I think you would see families return to Buffalo en mass.

We have known since the 80s really that people would spend $300,000-$750,000 and today $1,000,000 to live in the city so the demand is there and has been there for decades.

Unfortunately the developers seem to either not see the trend or to be 25 years architecturally behind the urban trend. Look at the houses in Orchard Park, East Aurora, Amherst, Lancaster etc. These are not vinyl stucco generics....these homes have gables, stone and brick work, shingle and they are a mixture of period styles...that one would see driving down Lancaster or Lincoln or Chapin Parkway.

Furthermore..developers only see high dollar value developments in one or two areas and thats a shame because the City Honors/Masten Park, Cazenovia Park and South Park are all ripe for high end infill.

Combine two lots and make an urban version of a McMansion and people from Hamburg, East Aurora and Orchard Park will move back into the city

Keep the single lot and build high end townhomes (row houses) with first floor garages.

Create a neighborhood association for the city block so that a shared backyard could contain a private pool and tennis court...instead of the usual small urban backyards.

People say they will never build in midtown or south buffalo but I say thats because the market has never been tested. South Park, Abbott, McKinley...these are really great parkways that should be like Lincoln and Chapin and Bidwell....and if developed to that calibre then people who prefer south buffalo will buy.

There are some people that are very loyal to and have very strong preferences for the eastside or the southside but the housing no longer suits their needs and thats a problem that is only going to get worse not better because during Buffalos long downward spiral....the square footage of properties in the 1950s 1960s 1970s was on the small side some homes are little more than 1000sqft in an age where people arent considering anything under 2000. Large swaths of Buffalo have to be rebuilt but thats not as bad as it sounds because large swaths of Buffalo have already been demolished.

For the most part....families will not return on mass to Buffalo because of the Public Schools but thats not to say that there isnt significant demand for these urban McMansions just as there is demand for more condos of the calibre of 800 West Ferry.

Removing Rumore and implementing School Vouchers and School Choice will bring back many of the people currenty living in the suburbs/exurbs back into the city. Until that time blame the public schools and blame the developers!

turn them into co-ops!

Apparently you people don't know anyone living in Spaulding Lake or the surrounding affluent suburb of Clarence. The houses in Spaulding are built well and will last for centuries, I know because I worked on a few of them. The houses in Clarence Center, near Meadow Lakes, Martha's Vineyard, and some of the other lower developments would be classified as "McMansions". Owning some of the estates around Spaulding Lake, like the one that recently sold on Cobblestone, is very prestigious and a worthwhile investment. It is a beautiful community, well policed, great schools, and a good tax value when compared to houses in Buffalo. The craftsmanship is still there if you have the money to pay for it. You would be amazed by the hand-crafted detail in some of the Spaulding homes, including hand-crafted woodwork and windows. These houses also have modern amenities that can support modern living, something that many of the Buffalo mansions are missing.

As far as Masten Park competing with the suburbs.... that is a joke at this stage in the game. People aren't going to move into an un-gentrified, crime-ridden area of the East Side just because we want them to. We have to fix the city first, including the schools, police force, government, etc, before this mass-migration takes place. Clarence has Buffalo beat in this aspect, the local Clarence government favors the rich lifestyle of people in Spaulding Lake and Martha's Vineyard, they do their best to take care of the citizens who live in the trailers along Main and Sheridan, but they are focused on the people who contribute the most. This is where Buffalo needs to shift their thinking, Buffalo punishes the rich to give more to the poor. It doesn't pay to live there unless you have ways to protect your assets or are a homesteader trying to make a statement against the established rich in the suburbs. This is the trend that we are currently seeing, it will take a lot more to get the masses of rich and upper-middle class to return to the City. Until then, we can continue to slag on the Spaulding Lake rich without really knowing what we are talking about.

If you think the Spaulding Lake homes are built to the same degree of reinforcement, architectural nuance, beauty and proportion as the great houses of Buffalo's Golden Age, then you don't know those older houses very well. The architects who designed them often had studied in Europe, had a grounding in and understanding of the successive architectural styles that developed over centuries, and had read widely in history and art. I may be mistaken, but I doubt this is true of the typical designer of a Spaulding Lake home. I have seen no evidence of architectural sophistication in any of those homes.

It's worth noting that a few decades ago we almost lost several of those grand homes on Delaware to a corporation that wanted to build a large new building on Delaware. We're lucky it was stopped.

Chief_Psychic....my how blurry and narrow your pychic abilities really are these days....perhaps you need a new antennae

The Wedge District starting at Canisius between Jefferson and Main Street is filled with anchors: Canisius, Artspace, Packard, St Vincents Orphanage, Masten Park, Masten Armory, Humboldt Park, Science Museum, Center for Life Sciences to name a few. This wedge district is small enough and has a enough empty spaces for new builds .... However...only very large scale urban redevelopment could happen for people to feel safe investing large sums of money...but as the COE for Life Sciences continues to grow....the potential for this wedge community to actually handle something big continues to gain potential.

The less desirables continue to move to the other side of the Kensington which will act as a barrier allowing infill redevelopment and high tech businesses on one side..while lower income continue their urban decay on the eastside of the Kensington.

I personally would like to extend the light rail and simply eliminate the Kensington completely but since it acts like a barrier....it may actually help gentry the areas east of Main Street....making the Kensington the new barrier.

Disappointing set of comments on this one.

Anyway I thought it was interesting that there is at least a mini bubble of people moving back into these big beauties.

I don't see this as a trend really. It seems like a few affluent people decided to move back into the city and convert old mansions. Now if all of Delaware Ave's mansions were undergoing renovation to single family homes then you might have case.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a development up by South Campus near LaSalle St and McCarthy Park that is similar to a gated community? Aren't these smaller versions of the McMansions in Buffalo? If they are comparable, are they all occupied? Just a question because I've noticed they seem pretty out of place on South campus.

Steel, I thought your post was very interesting, and while it may not yet be a trend, I think you've helpfully pointed out something different in the air in Buffalo housing lately. Even ten years ago, practically no one was buying the very large houses. There are many more of them that could be had for relatively humble sums of money. If people who would consider charter schools or who can afford private schools would just consider moving their families into these houses, you might have a trend, and I'd welcome it. To me, a childhood in a grand house with history and seasoning beats a peanut butter & jelly childhood in the remote suburbs anyday. Think of the stories!

The realtors are partly behind the brainwashing of families to buy in the suburbs. I keep hearing stories of how realtors push young families to buy out there even when they express interest in the city. Anyway, a great post.

To clarify, my point is that the majority of houses in Spaulding Lake and the surrounding neighborhoods shouldn't be classified as McMansions. They are not on par with the historic mansions along Delaware Ave; however for many affluent people they are a better choice. They are often custom designed and built by some of the finest craftsman that this area has to offer. They are also designed with modern conveniences and amenities, they are much 'greener' and energy efficient and a lot more practical. The schools and surrounding community are a lot nicer and more accepting of the wealthy. It is a shame that the rich felt that they had to leave Buffalo, due to the failures in our political and social systems, just like it is a shame that many are leaving the State today.

Like 42Nate said, the craftsmanship is there if you look for it and have the money to pay for it. If not, you will have to settle for shoddy work that is characteristic of most contractors and laborers today. We can thank the union 'craftsman' for monopolizing the local trades and ensuring that anyone who gives a shit about their work is either assimilated or cast out. You have to do your time in the union, no matter how skilled or talented you may be, there is nothing like mediocrity and working to the lowest common denominator.

As far as the East Side goes.... Chris69, we all know your feelings about the racial make-up of that area and your feelings about specific races and religions. I am sure that you would like nothing more than to "white-wash" the East Side.

SteveP - There are some very nice houses along the Buffalo / Amherst border (on both sides), streets like LeBrun have always been very affluent and at one time were owned by the 'not quite wealthy enough' residents of Buffalo. These are great streets and a great neighborhood with a lot of history.

chief psychic...I do know about LeBrun but I think the development that I am referring to is William Price Pkwy right across from the Metro station. It backs up to McCarthy park.

Lol, I love the idea that the McMansions at Spaulding Lake are utilizing Green Design. Is that to compensate for having to drive their escalades and trail blazers into the city for their jobs as doctors at the hospitals and lawyers in our courts? Sounds like a "Green" lifestyle to me.

TownLine - my boyfriend and I live in a large old home off Chapin, we spent a considerable amount of money to upgrade the windows, doors, etc. to increase energy efficiency, prior to having all that work done the house leaked heat like crazy so I would say regardless of whether or not large suburban homes actually feature green design or not they are much more energy efficient than an older city home of comparable size.

By the way, this idea that only people in the suburbs drive SUVs is very tiring - one of our cars is an SUV and there are plenty of people in our neighborhood who drive SUVs as well - I don't see much difference between my boyfiend and I driving to the Galleria and the Boulevard Mall on the weekend to do shopping in ours and a person from the suburbs driving downtown in theirs - do you?

Chief Psychic, again I think you need to fine tune your antennae concerning me and the eastside. There arent enough whites to white wash the eastside (sarcasm)...the truth is much more harsh. Minority kids are warehoused not taught in public schools. Many minority kids have no parents or role models nor are their schools safe or challenging. If I were a minority I would be marching on City Hall for school vouchers and school choice to get my kids out of public schools because in Buffalo they arent going to find good paying jobs for people that either didnt get a high school diploma or thought they were smart skidding by with D's. Those jobs are not just gone from Buffalo but gone from the US. Furthermore if there are low paying jobs they are going to recent legal and illegal immigrants not public school failures. At todays immigration rates, our nation has given up and bypassed our existing minorities and poor. Yet they dont reallize it and instead of blaming policy they blame prejudice.

Right now the best thing that could happen to the eastside minority community would be a light rail connection to the airport which would realign inner city neighborhoods with downtown and suburban jobs, the wholesale abandonment of public schools and the abandonment of municipal housing.

Now you dont have to be a psychic to reallize that any community where the majority of wealth comes from welfare, drugs, gangs, crime or minimum wage jobs is not going to have enough money to be self sustaining. They arent going to have the money for new roofs, new windows, new furnaces, new paint, etc so the live until the property is unlivable and then move on...and that is whathas been happening on the eastside since atleast the 50s.

What the eastside needs is not to be whitewashed as you call it but an re-introduction of the middle and upper class.

Chris69 - So you are saying that we should move all the "LESS DESIRABLES" to a section East of the Kennsington and gentrify the streets closer to Main? This will somehow resolve poverty, improve the schools, and create self-sustaining families? Sounds like you would like to lift and shift the poor to move the rich into this neighborhood. If you are familiar with this neighborhood you know that Main Street already serves as the barrier between the "LESS DESIRABLES" and the rich on Linwood. Would moving that line of demarcation across the Kennsington improve the schools? I don't think so.

Gee Whiz Steel, Look what you started! A post on your innocent backyard play (ours actually as we grew up together, I believe) to a racial and environmental diatribe. Jeepers Creepers. I remember going "roof climbing" on some of these houses and still know the phone number, address and name of the parents of my "non de plume". when and if caught by Precinct 6...

By the way, was that house on Nottingham not the Miller Mansion? I believe it was owned by the Miller family and given to Nottingham Academy (a female Catholic school) but ruined in the 70's by Nichols School, purchasing Nottingham and installing a giant gymnasium in the back yard.

The Larkin House, I know is occupied by a single woman who rents out the top floor and garage apartment. I used to think it was owned by Buffalo Seminary but it is not.

Auburner,

Drop me a line using the BRO PM tool at the top of the page. I think you are younger than me

The Larkin house was recently sold by Buffalo Seminary to a wealthy family that will use it for their home.

You are right on the Miller house. That is now the Snowdon house

As to the price of mansions in Buffalo...they are dirt cheap!!!!!!!!

Steve P. and all- There is quite a story behind that William Price Parkway development that involved dicey politics and public monies. I don't know if the issue has been resolved, but you may notice the lack of upgrades on the properties and high vacancy rates. That gives the rumors I have heard some credibility. Are the deeds in question?