Buffalo Rising Online

Boston cleans every street in downtown once per week, the alternate parking rules are in effect where they will tow your car if it is not moved so that the streets can be properly cleaned. I rarely ever see the Street Cleaners around Buffalo.

People need to change their mentality first, and maybe strictly enforcing a fine is the best way to prevent people from littering.

Something about the email doesn't resonate well with me. Maybe i'm being defensive and don't appreciate the threatening tone. Are you going to move away (again) because you have to pick up lousy Doritos bags? Let's be honest, i've traveled too, Buffalo is not a messy city. Not sure what cities in 3rd world countries you've been to, but you've obviously never been to the cosmopolitan and absolutely filthy cities of Athens, Chicago, and Rome. Just pick up the litter and stop complaining. There will be no pat on the back, it our civic duty.

I live a couple of lots in from Main Street and have to pick up trash from my front lawn pretty much daily. I've always wondered where it all comes from and hadn't thought about the bus stop on the corner. Not sure if there's a garbage can there or not I'll have to check it out.

In the parts of the city that don't get much mention here, it's not uncommon to see people dump the trash from the meal they recently purchased at a drive thru. The first few times you see it, it's like a slap in the face. Then you remember to avoid that part of the city.

Most people that own property do their best to pick up, God love those people that live on corners, etc. near the areas that get dumped on the most. This is a personal responsiblity issue, nothing more or less. Some people don't care, and they display it for all to see each time they roll down their window.

It is not just downtown it is all of western NY that is filthy. I live in a much hated BRO suburban development that is filled with 250K + homes and there is constantly garbage everywhere. If it is not news paper blowing down the street and getting stuck in you bushes it is crinkled up McDonalds and BK bags in the street or empty beer cans. The problem....look no further than your neighbors. I truly feel that a good portion of WNY's are slobs. And most kids don't know any better because there parents were slobs also. I don't know how many times I have seen someone throw something out of there car window because they are to lazy to wait until they get home. It is a by product of the way most people feel about WNY itself. Look no further than some of our resturants and bars. I have gone into more disgusting bathrooms that clean ones. We put up with mediocraty and it festers into our daily lives. We cannot rely on the government to clean up our streets we have to do that ourselves.

"You can't passively be a part of Buffalo's "upswing" or whatever you want to call it. You can't just enjoy it. You have to do it."

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with that. I take pride in the fact that so many people are watching and working to make the city better. I don't feel governments in any city are the sole reasons that things happen there. Activists and people are what drive city growth and redevelopment. Governments are the ones that ride the wave. In the end I would rather trust people to do the right thing than government. Checks and Balances. We just need to get the city to be more responsive and less like a dictatorship like to actually enable people to better their live and the city.

I agree with JamesBuffalo--this sounds like an exagerrated gripe. Pick up the garbage you see and get on with your life.

But even more irritating is Reflip's advice. He flourishes one of the vaguest, most unconstructive phrases I see often on BRO: "other cities." The notion that life in "other cities" is a smooth ride to Happyville. As long as you go to "other cities" you won't get down. But not Buffalo, where "the people" are "depressed." All of them? Please. This would be interesting news to the hundreds of thousands of stuggling workers in NYC, to the folks in the crumbling housing markets of Cleveland, or to the swelling homeless ranks in Toronto. Let me not get started on the bleeding populaton of anemic Pittsburgh or the malaise in New York State's poorest city: Rochester. Other cities, indeed.

If you're new to Buffalo or thinking of moving here--please steer clear of Reflip's attitude above: the comments are almost suburban in their mentality and understanding of older cities issues, achivements, possibilities and failures.

And as for living in Toronto--take it from me: It's truly the most overappraised and ugliest major city I've lived in. If you're looking for a filthy stroll--try Yonge Street from Bloor down to the condo-choked tourist-trap patio they call the waterfront. It gets dirtier every year.

Good point sally. I've seen a fair amount of the western world and every city has these kinds of problems. But we can help it a bit. PUT TRASH CANS DOWNTOWN and empty them once a decade or so. Put trash cans at major bus stops too. I think the only places downtown that have trash cans are main st. and niagara square. Also fine businesses and homes that have trash on their yards and or sidewalks.

The amount of trash is directly related to the proximity of convenience & RiteAid type stores to the local schools. Dirty-dirt bag kids buy their sugar, eat it, toss the packaging on lawns. Way to educate our youth School System!! Fail for civic pride. Fail for health.

I still think we should put the homeless to work here. B Brown could take all the money he would be saving by not paying union workers/cleaners and pay the homeless to clean. Giving the homeless a living wage would kill 3 birds with one stone: clean the city, increase the tax base, and reduce the public funding needed/soup kitchen dollars. IMO the homeless and jobless are some of the most under utilized resources that Buffalo (and America in general) has. It would be the second wave of the New Deal by FDR, the best President this country has seen in a century.

rlesch> It is not just downtown it is all of western NY that is filthy.

'Tis true. Check out the accumulation of cigarette butts and other grit in the turn and curb lanes at most intersections, the weeds sprouting from curbs and medians, and the growing problem of snipe signs and "street spam" on utility and light poles. WNY is just not a region where, as a whole, people care about the details.

I believe one reason many of Buffalo's problems are perpetuated is because of the blind boosterism that is often encountered on BR. Some are so on love with Buffalo, they tend to overlook the flaws. Google "Booster Bill and Patriot Patricia" for a profile of this type of Buffalonian. Pyongyang tour guides take their lessons from Buffalo boosters. :D

rlesch> It is not just downtown it is all of western NY that is filthy.

'Tis true. Check out the accumulation of cigarette butts and other grit in the turn and curb lanes at most intersections, the weeds sprouting from curbs and medians, and the growing problem of snipe signs and "street spam" on utility and light poles. WNY is just not a region where, as a whole, people care about the details.

I believe one reason many of Buffalo's problems are perpetuated is because of the blind boosterism that is often encountered on BR. Some are so on love with Buffalo, they tend to overlook the flaws. Google "Booster Bill and Patriot Patricia" for a profile of this type of Buffalonian. Pyongyang tour guides take their lessons from Buffalo boosters. :D

"Yep, full of dirty pigs who need to be taught manors before they are assigned a free hand outs from social services."

You stay classy, buffgayguy!

Aside from the gross disregard of many of the residents over here in the jefferson/william section of town, i have not seen much that can even compare, its almost surreal to see some of the blatant littering I witness down here on a regular basis. I think its a quality of life issue and its something that needs to be put in check with fines. On a larger scale its certainly interesting to see how some of the residential and commercial property owners let their properties become overgrown and strewn with trash with no repercussion, while the business that mow there property weekly, clean there sidewalk of snow daily, wash off the regular grafitti, and keep things in order and looking nice will receive a citation at the drop of the hat from the city for a relatively minor issue. Punish the people/businesses with the means, and don't bother with the residents/businesses who appear to not have means, thats the picture thats being painted from the city. My business runs along Spring St., between Broadway and William, there is a huge low income housing compound right across the street. You want to see more litter than you have ever seen, drive by here once a week before we have our weekly crew come that we have to pay to clean it up. That goes unchecked for a week, and we have a citation in the mail from the city stat. I dont have a problem keeping our property clean, even if we have to spend our money to regularly clean up other peoples 'litterings', but it would certainly see people educated on littering, take some sort of pride in there city, and face consequences for there actions if they fail to comply with littering laws.

"This is a class issue."

I'm glad that Bini made explicit what others have been hinting around. Littering (and other minor antisocial behaviors) tends to occur when folks think they have no stake in the place they live. The solution isn't to hope that they start acting like stakeholders, or to try and coerce them into it. It's to give them a stake.

I don't think it's the litter that's a problem, it's the vacant lots, the random buildings that are left to rot (and smell on days like this- walk behind the former AM&A's Building on Washington Street and tell me you can't smell those old buildings). The moody attitudes so many Buffalonians carry and the small town mentality that any outside ideas is bad and everything local and status que is good is what's driving me away. Not the litter.

Count me in with JamesBuffalo. It isn't that bad! Could it be that April came to inspect many things and found that the "3rd in the nation" status less than reported? If one goes looking for garbage anywhere, you are likely to find it. By seeking the minutia, she missed the whole package. Too bad she has to return home having missed it.

I don't think the problem is worse than any other America ncity I've seen or lived in. It is a cultural and a class issue to an extent but it also is a demonstration of the fact that in our own little ipod bluetooth worlds we care less and less about how our behavior affects those around us.

While living in Austin, a city regarded as one of the more eco-conscious, I pulled up up to a low water crossing on the road to my house. This is where you drive accross a stream because there is no bridge. A truck was stopped in the crossing, both doors were open and the two guys in it were dumping all of their trash from the cab of the truck into Bull Creek. I was floored. I pulled up next to them and they spoke not a lick of English. I tried to tell them that not 25 feet away there were a bunch of garbage cans. I got flipped off for my effort.

I've lived in Chicago; dirty, St Louis; dirty; NYC; way dirty. It is everywhere. And if you think it is bad here head over to the Middle East or South America. I am not sure how to change it but if someone is willing to shoot someone dead for looking at them the wrong way then you sure as hell aren't going to convince them that their littering is an imposition on others and should be stopped.

Colin, maybe that's the issue. They think they should be 'given' a stake, but for it to be respected, it needs to be earned.

bf --

I see where you're coming from. The problem is that requiring people to "earn" their stake produces the result we see -- large numbers of people with little investment in anything larger than themselves. And I'd argue that this situation has huge consequences for those of who are deemed to have "earned" our stake already. Littering is one small and relatively innocuous example of such a consequence.

Reflip, I felt no vemon in my response to your post--only irritation that BRO posts such hyperbolic letters as April's, which can trigger responses like yours that further distort the experience of living here. I'm sure you are serious about improving city life here--that's terrific and I applaud you-- but your post is essentially a list of tedious, exaggerated generalizations about living in Buffalo that--when read by people trying to forge impressions of the city for either staying or moving in--creates an impression that living here demands some sort of enormous life sacrifice. All cities can be tiring and demand participation for really good, engaged living, but for many in Buffalo it is a joy, a true joy to live here.

So, when I see gross overstatements about having to "martyr" oneself to live in Buffalo, I'm always going to advise readers to discard that kind of backward thinking. I owe it to the city that's given me such a good life.

+1 for jamesbflo comment

I'll agree that some of the worst places are around corner stores and fast food joints where people walk to. But at the same time lead by example people. If I see garbage in my front yard I pick it up. I mow religiously and keep my garden the same. I live in the west side and theres a lot of foot traffic by my house but I notice that people tend to pass by my property more because what I hope they think is "how nice" this yard looks before they dump their garbage. If I see someone drop something in my yard I tell them " I know theirs no garbage can insight but can you do me the favor of not dropping it in my yard? I spend a lot of time trying to keep this nice" You would be surprised by how crack heads and what some people would call "ghetto" people simply say "ya" or " no prob man".The more people see people doing whats right the more that will follow those ways. If you see someone drop something walking in front of you bend down and pick it up and maybe they will see you do it and think about it the next time. Just some of my ideas but maybe I was raised to respect others things and the area in which I live.

There's a certain truth in reflip's original post. There is a bit of a vacuum in a city that's losing population, and unfortunately, that void can more easily be filled by those that don't care, than by those that do. EO's flip comment to 'pick up the garbage you see, and get on with your life'...well, for some of us there would be little time left if we picked up all the garbage we see.

For the small business owner on a corner, picking up for others fills more time than they ever anticipated. In many ways it's like a tax that you can't write off.

Hey, check this out: Buffalo has been included on a list of "America's Fastest-Dying Cities."

http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2008/08/04/daily18.html?jst=b_ln_hl

All cities have trash issues, Atlanta, London, Paris, you name it. It does boil down to different levels of people though. Go to the Bidwell concert on Tuesday evening and watch people go out of their way to get to a trash can, the place is spotless at the end of the evening. Go to any corner deli that sells 40ozers, scratch tickets and does check cashing, see how it looks within an hour of opening. I spend more time cleaning crap out of my front yard being near one of these useless deli's who's uncareing customers create the mess. It certainly is not my neighbors tossing out garbage. Guess it's garbage created by garbage.

"Hopefully by then there will be less uneducated, scumbag, drug dealing,dirty, trash there. You know, the ones that are on welfare, eat at fast food restaurants, and hang out on corners."

You stay classy, Kerizma70!

You forgot, Work at Wal-Mart, Colin, lol

On a side note Buffalo has many more fine points that overshadow the trash issue.

Once again a national chain that has a presence on the precious Elmwood strip gets trashed(no pun intended) on BRO.

I'd love to see Rite-Aid, Wilson Farms, Subway and any other "chain" businesses pack up and move out from the Elmwood strip. Then lets see who complains.

EAM- I think part of its from the Canadians- Tuesday evening, I watched 4 teenagers in a car with Ontario plates, leave 4 empty shoe boxes and three shopping bags, with tags, paper, etc (all to be blown around) in the parking lot.

It all comes down to individual responsibility for your own actions, some of us clean up others messes. Some people just don't care, and its not likely to change anytime soon.

everything said here is true....Buffalo is dirty...but so are most cities...people have no repect...the lower the class, the less respect....but one thing that most people ignore, nevermind their social status......throwing cigerette butts out car windows is littering and spitting and throwing out chewing gum is just as offensive. This happens everywhere and it totally digusts me....why can't we enforce the rules like they do over in Singapore?

Singapore is an authoritarian regime.

We should also be allowed to smack children in school when they are bad, just like in China, maby they will straighten up then.

If you don't understand what April is talking about then you are simply not well traveled. NYC, Boston, Toronto, Pittsburgh , etc are much cleaner.

Buffalo has turned a corner, but is still in the early stages of development, and the pace of the development is not fast enough to keep some young working professionals here.

Buffalo is still a very poor city filled with minority welfare recipients. They have no respect for cleanliness or their property.

Other cities have a higher class of people living downtown and therefore have a better tax base to sweep the streets clean.

The facades of most buildings downtown need to be updated.

^^racist^^

Gaustad--many people here have not only traveled in but also lived in these fabled "other cities." I'll show you trash, grime, and battalions of poor folks in every one of them, but maybe you're talking about postcard pictures. The rest of your comment is base and stupid.

Reflip--point taken. Cheers.

Besides most of Elmwood and Delaware Ave. the rest of the major streets in Buffalo look horrible don't offer much. Just about the entire East Side is in ruins and soon wont have anything left but a few plastic houses surrounded by grassy fields, most of downtown is still a ghost town most of the time, and is over run by parking. Everytime a new project comes along (new office or lofts) something is torn down to make room for MORE parking, and I have to agree that most of the people in this town are from another planet. They ask for change , but when it's a possiblity they stop it and say "not in my backyard", many have never been outside of the city limits and say "Buffalo is just like any other normal city". Many don't even have a clue what people are wearing these days and what's in and what isn't, hense if someone from say, NYC was walking around this town in something MODERN, many locals would look at this person they were some kind of freak or something, (Trust me, it's happend to me a few times on Main Street). And we promote events for DRINKERS and then complain about public urination, fights , ect.(can we say "Thursday at the Square"?). So, my point is, it's not just the litter that can make a bad impression on Buffalo, it's the people, the attitudes, the run down buildings and smell of death and poverty all over the city that can leave a bad impression.

You hippie liberals took the bait!

Lets break it down, I don't see much white trash downtown, just POOKY from New Jack City on every street corner.

EricO..... Boston, Chicago, and Toronto make Buffalo look like a pimple on your nose. You have to be smooth to live in other cities, it is not my fault you couldn't blend in with the beautiful people.

Now you are back here obstructing development.

Hilartee,

my age is just fine, is yours?

There is simply no better analogy than Pooky from New Jack City to describe the state of downtown Buffalo.

Call it "incendiary," but Pooky gets right to the point and you know what I mean!

Colin, Don't get mad...there is enough reverse discrimination in the world already.

Hilartee, by the way, are you mad at your parents? :)

PS - April you are one hot babe, don't leave us.....I want to buy a ticket to the gun show!

Hilartee, do you work out?

Gaustad i guess you really cant read. April is not in the picture above. If you read the article the woman is Zoe Hughes