Buffalo Rising Online

I guess god likes the vinyl covered suburbs like everyone else in America. I mean Jesus doesn't want to be surrounded by those in need, or blight. It makes perfect sense to put the heart and voice of selflessness, sacrifice, love and a helping hand next to those white picket fences and wal-marts. The catholic church is acting like the DOT, following numbers and not their purpose. How can you preach helping the poor from Amherst when you know most of your congregation would never set foot into areas that need them the most. They had an opportunity in my mind to win back a lot of people who left the church because of this attitude.

They should have made a stand, closed some of the suburban churches and said that our mission is to help the hungry, clothe the naked. Our mission as a church and a religion in about love. compassion. No place needs more love and compassion than these neighborhoods. The church should not run away following numbers like a bon-ton or am&s's would. They should make the stand and say even though you moved away the problems you are leaving behind still exist and demand your attention because if you believe in Jesus. you KNOW in your heart thats what he would do. He wouldn't run off to a Clarence subdivision.

The East Side says a lot about Buffalo and WNY in general. Every city has blighted areas, and experiences with "white flight." But, most cities also have stable middle class areas that are predominantly black. Buffalo doesn't have that. There is a serious racial disconnect in this area that I don't think the average person who grew up here recognizes. And, I think "disconnect" is the best word here, because I'm not going to jump on the "Buffalo is racist" bandwagon. Long story short - Whaever the reason is, there is a serious undersupply of Black business owners, executives, etc in this area. White flight may be a fact of life, but it would be nice if there were enough financially successful African Americans that would be able to stabilize, and even improve the community. Maybe the Muslims will do it.

All these churches are magnificent. Anyone not stopping by for a mass or just to check them out is really missing out.

And the area a whole is very interesting, as you say, from a social standpoint. Businesses, factories, churches, everything dense and within walking distance. I grew up not far from the terminal through the 80's. Nothing fancy, but it was still well kept, old lady owned the corner store, that I was sent to from the age of 5 to get ingredients/prducts that we would run out of, neighbors on front porches keeping an eye on things, etc.

These past three years I've walked a good portion of the east side, explored many abandoned houses/churches/factories with camera equipment in tow. Never once have I been approached or messed with. Its actually how many people will come out of their well kept houses to see who you are and then detour into their feelings about what is happening around them.

In the day of automotive transportation it's a shame that these churches are still not viable. I cannot think of one religion that is not centered around the poor and those less fortunate, yet it appears a majority of the members can not be bothered to go and worship as equals along with them. Just another in a long line of things that turned me off to organized religion.

Although the abandonment exists all around these I think it could be used in a positive way. Demotions should be centered around schools and churches. The churches could absorb the vacant land for some parking, but even more so for park like grounds surrounding the structures. Make them architectural and functioning Sunday destinations. I could care less about the religious aspect of them (besides the services they provide). But I appreciate the architectural value in these amazing structures which will never built like this again. I also appreciate the time, talents, services and love that the original parishioners put into them. It seems to have been a time of vested interests and true dedication.

St Ann's is really one to behold. The amount of windows in there is staggering. I've also been fortunate enough to go up in the steeples, see the old clock mechanisms etc. http://www.flickr.com/photos/underneatheverything/sets/72157601010888746/ The dedication of those still there is great to experience. Talking to them you feel like you are talking to a 5 year old telling you about their trip to Disney Land etc. The excitement and passion you experience is so rare in todays society, especially for challenges so large and with poor odds.

sbrof......exactly.....we think alike.

Catholic Diocese: Can't practice what you preach.....don't bother preaching to me.

Funny, my family took the same kind of sightseeing drive about two weeks ago. Based on what I saw, I respectively disagree with Sayvanderlay and agree with Sbrof and Steel, the original poster; these areas are empty. This isn't White Flight so much as everyone leaving except a small number of poor that couldn't make the trip. There were no cars driving the streets, no children in the yards, no shops open, no people walking their dogs, really, no one. On one of the busiest shopping days of the year, it took us 25 minutes to go a mile on Transit Road in Clarence, but we could have driven 50 miles an hour during our East Buffalo tour and not had any problems. We went to the Broadway market, and it was mostly empty. The fruit belt? Empty.

Why did people leave? This is a whole field of study, but I think the reasons are mainly economic. Young people didn't want to pay high taxes to support an aging city infrastructure without any available jobs. They left. The small houses, some poor people and some old people didn't leave. Now the old are dying, the houses are crumbling and the poor that are left are still visible. That is what you see when you drive around like we did.

I am not a religious person, but I did grow up in a very religious family. Relgion is about more than charity, it is also about community. It is important for many people to follow their faith by worshiping in a church, mosque, synogogue, or temple where they feel that they belong. This could mean finding a congregation that is in your neighborhood as much as it means findinig one that fits your value system. Take a look on the East Side and count the number of Roman Catholic churches within a few square miles. Why do you think there are so many churches of the same denomination in the same physical community? Why are there so many different types of churches in one small geographic footprint? Why is there so much emotion behind closing or consolidating parishes? Because where you practice your religion is often a matter of personal and family choice, and many people have chosen to no longer worship in these churches. The church no longer stands as the cornerstone of the local community in the way that it did in past decades, and the community can no longer support it. In much the same way that a store without patrons will soon close, a church without a congregation will also close.

You may be looking at the church for the architectural beauty or for the rich history, but you need to factor in the community. This isn't part of a huge conspiracy against the city, it is a matter of fact that the East Side residents can no longer support the churches in their community. They various religious diocese in Buffalo have subsidized the operation of these churches and the financial and charitable support of the people of the poorer communities. These churches have been on life support for decades, and so has their surrounding communities. Attendance at churches everywhere is down, and so is the amount received from weekly collections and donations. The fact is that the greater community of Buffalo and Erie County can no longer afford to keep these churches open. I am part of this problem, I stopped attending and contributiing to the church more than a decade ago, most of my friends and family who are in my age group have done the same. As you respond to this, ask yourself if you may have played a part in the closure of these churches due to your personal religious or non-religious beliefs. Let me know if you have given a financial contribution to help keep these buildings open, or if you have given your charitable donation to the Catholic Charities or other groups that help support the poor. I know that it has been at least 15 years since I have given anything to the church, and I was baptised, confirmed, and buried family in one of the churches that is scheduled to close.

All these churches are magnificent and the modesty of their homes proves how much love and devotion they had to their faith which is why we cannot let these churches be demolished. We need an infrastructure fund to preserve them.

There are large swaths of the eastside which simply arent going to make it because the houses are to small, to modest, little architectural value, etc etc etc.....they arent going to make it in a world where middle class families want two baths and three bedrooms and an attached garage....they arent going to make it in a middle class that has rediscovered architectural details....which is why so much of the eastside is ripe for modern infill.

I can only say that the remaining eastside landmarks like the Central Terminal, the Broadway Market, the churches, the remaining historic buildings etc these are the magnets that future growth and development will anchor around. If they are sacrificed then the future redevelopment of the eastside is also sacrificed.

I wish that a leader would emerge who could inspire individual suburban congregations to each sponsor a sister church. They could choose a church that some of their congregation’s families had attended. I'm sure that great satisfaction could be taken from such a purpose. I know that if a congregation felt propriety over one of these great old churches, they would do wonderful things. They could attend services occasionally in the city, and use the magnificent facility occasionally for special holidays and events. They could have the best of both worlds. Not only would they enjoy their mission of saving a church, but also they could feel very accomplished about themselves for making a huge difference on a very important corner in one of our critical neighborhoods.

Part II One more suggestion - If a congregation were to consider annexing one of these city churches; Place the collections for this specific purpose into a privately controlled bank account formed under a not-for-profit corporation with a very specific mission and purpose. That way all of the money can be controlled by the congregation and directed to the maintenance of your city church project. This may make a big difference in the outcome. If the portions of past collections that had been intended to support that particular building had been returned to those same churches that had contributed them, some of them may have actually survived the closures.

Steel -- I was also in the Broadway/Fillmore area on Saturday, can't believe we didn't bump into each other. My trip was not impromptu though. I was at the BCT, as I am on every Saturday; and then I got to go inside the firehall on Fillmore that was just purchased and is currently being remodeled.

To sum it up, the Catholic Diocese is a bit frigged up - coming from an ex-Seminarian - me. (Yes, I am bitter that it is not run better, but what can you do.) The last Bishop, now in Hartford, did not want anything to do with Church closings and thus did not close any. He was all about the numbers, just as long as he looked good, was all that mattered. Now the current Bishop has to take action to take care of something that should have happened years ago and he gets chastised, go figure.

Anywho - that's Corpus Christi in the picture. I don't think that was mentioned.

Steel, I don't mean this in an insulting way to anybody involved. But did you stop along the way to survey average people still living on those streets (ones who haven't fled) to ask if they agree it would make good sense to prioritize millions from the potential state, federal, and/or private sources chiknlil mentions for trying to keep those beautiful structures standing forever for some "creative reuses" that there might need to be a think tank created to even think of? Or might they prefer priority be given to expenses such as hire more police officers, remove more of the 10,000 vacant firetraps beyond the 5000 over 5 years currently planned, finish remaining phases of the BPS school construction project now endangered by budget gaps even after record state aid hikes, finally repair and start maintaining the MLK sprinker wading pool, repair and maintain neighborhood playgrounds, etc., etc.? All those topics so often discussed in articles on the BR City channel. Perhaps some very well meaning people living outside of the East Side would prioritize vacant East Side church preservation highest, but I wonder how most people living on the East Side would prioritize things. Yes, I realize some funding sources for vacant church preservation might not be usable for those other things. And in an ideal world we'd be able to do anything and everything. But it just seems churches get a lot of attention comnpared to so many other problems on the very same blocks. Again, nobody should take this the wrong way. I agree the churches look beautiful. And I don't claim to know either way what most average people living on those blocks would say about expensive conversions of vacant churches being such a high priority. But I do wonder.

I was directly involved in the beginning of this process with the Vicariate that most of the east side churches are in, researching which churches should close, their monetary value and what can become of them. I can assure you, the Church cannot support all these structures anymore. Some of the churches slated for closure had parishes of 150 people. At times, there may be only 20 people at mass. These churches could hold 2,000 people in some cases. The costs to run some of these churches are astronomical. To compound the problem, the Buffalo chapter of the Catholic Church will have approximately 100 less priests in a decade.

The Church has every intention to not relive the debacle that came of Transfiguration. The sale or reuses of the churches to be closed will need to be approved by the Diocese. It’s my understanding that the policy will be that the potential purchasers will need to have a plan and means for reuse of the building. No restaurant, bar or other use not fitting of these structures will be allowed in any building sold by the Diocese.

These are hard decisions for the Catholic Diocese. It’s one that cannot be avoided. It's unfortunate that it has come to this, but it is the reality in a shrinking city. Buffalo is not the only city to go through this. This has happened in many cities, mainly in the Northeast. These are concerns that were voiced in those cities as well, especially Pittsburgh. This reorganization will allow the Church to focus on its mission and will allow it to continue to help those who need it most.

I am not Catholic and was rarely ever in a Catholic church before doing this study. The beauty of these places was completely unexpected. Remember that not only churches will be closed. Schools, convents and rectories will close as well. It will take some creative thinking to reuse some of these structures as most are functionally obsolete in their current state.

I recommend to all to see Blessed Trinity, St. Girard’s and St. Anne’s as well. Bring your bowling ball to St. Girard’s. They have a cool 4 lane bowling alley in the school/community building!

Sorry, but the last comment should be posted under CKBuffalo, not BuffaloDave.

Atwater,

You seem to be angling for an argument where there is none.

In my idealized way of thinking the Catholic church would focus its resources both human and monetary on this struggling community and thereby preserve its own history while uplifting a community in need. I know this is an ideal and it is a lot to ask of people to drive a few extra miles to church and help build up a community like this.

Too me it just seems so strange that an organization based on giving to others is retreating from the one area of WNY that needs their giving the most. Why not try some radical thinking. Close the wealthy Parishes and move them to this neighborhood.

Steel, nope not algling for argument with anybody. Just expressing another way of looking at non-ideal real world aspects. Idealized ways of thinking aren't interesting to me, so I won't comment one way or another about which parishes you wish the Church would close. As time goes on it seems society becomes more secular, so in 50 years probably there's a much fewer active parishes anywhere in Buffalo's city or burbs.

Instead of you, I should've directed my questions toward others such as chiknlil who were discussing non-ideal reality of whether federal/state funding could convert churches to group homes or community centers. I wondered if there's other uses of that public money which people nearby might prioritize much higher. Note I said 'might' and don't pretend to know. Other suggestions of lofts or commercial use seem unrealistic too, for most of these. Location location location.

Overall no doubt some can be saved, but most if left standing waiting for a use to come along some day will become decaying blight and/or more mouths to feed at budget time without doing much if any real good. I don't disagree with studying as he suggested, but the idea as a starting point that these should automatically deserve a very high priority for any public funding is something I think should be questioned.

I had an experience like Steel's last summer when I was in town for a members-only tour of the Buffalo Central Terminal. [Brief commercial: part of the tour involved a rare opportunity to visit the observation deck in the tower, which affords an unforgettable panoramic view of all the church steeples on the east side. If you're not a member of BCT, join up for this opportunity alone!] On the way to the tour, which was on a Sunday, I walked to Mass at St. Anne's, then walked Paderewski Drive from there to the terminal. After seeing street after street in a state which Steel describes quite well, I was reminded of images of post-Katrina neighborhoods. In other parts of Buffalo, and in my own fair city, when I'm in an area in need of revitalization it often energizes my creative impulses, looking for ways and approaches for using existing assets and strengths to rebuild from. But the extent of what I saw street after street - and knowing I was seeing but a relatively small part of the affected area - eventually left me feeling a bit numb. It was something I'll never forget.

As Broadway/Fillmore Alive! rightly points out - and if you frequent BFA's most excellent web site you'll know - there are tremendous assets on the east side such as BCT and the churches, and many exceptional individuals and organizations. BCT has been undergoing a heroic transformation, but the churches have me worried, especially as my impression (and that of others) is that a lot of the decisions about the closings have been taking place without true community involvement, assessment of the true impacts, and true exploration of alternative approaches.

The question of the church closings, especially on the east side, I believe is looming as a significant crisis for Buffalo over the next decade. It's a hackneyed phrase that in Chinese, "crisis" is a word combination of danger and opportunity, but that's what this situation brings to my mind. Also that perhaps it's a bit like the school desegregation crisis, where Buffalo faced going down the same unfortunate path followed by many other large cities, or else finding a uniquely Buffalo solution as happened - to the community's great credit - under Judge Curtin's leadership. More recent examples of Buffalo's leadership rising to the occasion under duress include the Chautauqua Conference on Regionalism, and the Canal Conversations project to address the development of the inner harbor and Commercial Slip. Both of those initiatives not only invited to the table everyone with a stake in the issue in question, but also those with expertise and experience in other communities from which elements of successful solutions and lessons learned could be mined.

For this situation, as well, perhaps the best approaches also lie in that direction: proactive leadership to bring together a wide array of stakeholders and resources for a both focused yet broad-thinking effort to develop a framework for a uniquely Buffalo solution which has roles and responsibilities for everyone. In my mind, that would have to include, as Steel suggests, the healthy suburban parishes now populated to a large degree by the sons and daughters of the ethnic flight from the east side.

chiknlil - funding is complex, but we'd be talking about member pork from Albany or DC, right? So at some points it might be either/or vs. other possibilities. Granted, a lot of such spending ends up on lousy priorites no matter what. But if I were a legislator I'd put church conversion to community centers or group homes way low as priorities for public funds. So many other possibilites right on the same neighborhoods. You're right that a vacant church is a detrement. But impractical re-use attempts will still leave it vacant.

I suppose it comes down to difference in prediction about how likely it is conversions to creative uses would be to provide good long term return on public investment benefiting people in these neighborhoods. I think it's very unlikely to be a good use of spending amounts it'd require, but others will predict differently. There's many more practical and viable empty buildings for community centers, group homes, etc. if more of those are needed.

Chris Byrd and I did a slideshow of east side landmarks last year:

http://broadwayfillmorealive.org/media/give.wmv

Once you get past the devastation in some of the neighborhoods, you begin to see potential. Take a drive down Broadway and count the number of vacant yet solid buildings just waiting for a new purpose.

Thanks xmiss! I took the photos, wrote the verse and picked the song. Chris did an amazing job of matching the music and verses with the photos. We're pretty proud of it. It was done with a lot of love.

Sayvanderlay, The East Side does have a stable middle class black community, as well as many middle class streets with good neighbors. Have you walked around Hamlin Park recently?