From One Out-Of-State Investor To Another

From One Out-Of-State Investor To Another

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In the past, there have been more than a handful of out-of-state real estate investors who have participated in the practice of house flipping. That's because when houses can be picked up at auction for dirt-cheap prices, the temptation is too great to make a quick buck. House flipping has led to crisis situations in many East and West Side neighborhoods - especially when the buyer has no intention of fixing up a property. Instead they are out to turn over the property to an unsuspecting buyer who then gets in over his or her head. When that happens we are faced with a property that sits vacant waiting to be stripped, burned, used for drug trade, etc.

So where does that leave an out-of-state investor who comes to Buffalo with better intentions? That's what Nate 'Rock' Quarry, a UFC fighter (Team Quest with Randy Couture) from the Midwest is learning very quickly. Nate has been purchasing residential properties deep on the city's West Side for a few years now. I've spoken to him a number of times regarding a series of problematic issues that he has been facing. Nate admits that, in one case, he should have had his crew out mowing a lawn when they were inside working on the house, though he wonders how a lawn can be an issue when it is apparent that people are working to fix up the house. “You can come to the properties,” Nate told me. “And you can see that we’re doing work to fix them up. I would rather have someone from The City work with us rather than drive us away.”

When Nate first learned that the real estate market in Buffalo was a good investment, he decided that he wanted to sink hard earned (and I mean hard) money in the market. His thought was to pick up the properties at a pittance and invest some money into rehabbing them. One of the houses that I visited last week is located on West Avenue (near Niagara Street). When I first saw the exterior of the house I couldn't believe that anyone would voluntarily purchase the structure. It was stripped of most of its character and looked as if it was ready for the wrecking ball. Then I saw the work that Nate's crew was doing to the inside of the house. The floors had been redone, the walls were smoothed out and painted, the kitchens were being cleaned up... the interior looked great. He told me that the exterior of the house was scheduled for the same tune-up... if he decides to keep investing in Buffalo.

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Ever since Nate first purcased property here he has had nothing but headaches. Apparently finding a solid property management team in this city is quite a task. The fines that he has been receiving from The City have been astronomical, and that, he told me, is enough to scare anyone away. He told me that when his house on West Avenue is finished it will be one of the nicest ones on the block. Where other property owners have disinvested, he has stayed true to his vision of building a nest egg on the West Side.

One day, Nate called me to see if there was anyone around that could help. Or should he pull the plug and take a hit on the chin? "How can I get fined so much for clearing out the mess inside?" he asked. "We're taking out materials and we're getting fined for clearing them out to the front porch. It's obvious that we're doing work inside. I've got a crew doing the work everyday and when I'm in town I'm doing the floors myself. It's very upsetting - I feel like I'm doing The City a favor and all that I get is fine after fine. We remove the debris from the property as quickly as we can and I still get fined. Then, by the time I receive the fines they have already doubled. Then they want me to appear in court - in person on a particular date that I can't make. It's stacked up against the investor who doesn't live in Buffalo."

Do you remember Mike Hananel? He owns Horizon Realty. He went through the same business when he first bought properties here. Once he purchased his buildings, the fines started to roll in. Mike tells me that these properties had plenty of problems, but not until he purchased them did the fines start to accumulate. Mike, like Nate, had a huge learning curve and had it not been for the large number of units that he had invested in, he most likely would have pulled the plug on his investments. Since that time Mike has learned how to deal with The City. So when Nate called asking for advice, I called Mike and now the two are talking. Mike, who lives in LA has now taken Nate under his wing and is helping the UFC fighter navigate the quirky real estate market in Buffalo. “I don’t want to leave the city,” Nate told me. “I want to continue to invest here. But it’s been a nightmare… one thing after another. I’ve got a daughter to think about and I don’t want to spend the rest of my life fighting. I thought that Buffalo would be happy to have me invest my money here… instead I have been plagued with fines.”

When I first called Mike and told him about Nate, the first thing he said was, “What’s his number?” Mike told me that he feels that out-of-state investors are immediately at a disadvantage, yet if the right person sticks it out for long enough, the investment is well worth it. Unfortunately, many investors will not put up with what is fed them. That’s why it’s so important to have quality property managers around. Mike is not a property manager for others… though he feels passionately that an influx of dollars from other cities is what Buffalo needs. He’s even tossed around the idea of helping Nate by helping to manage his real estate investment. “We can’t lose him,” Mike said. “If he’s trying to do the right thing and he’s investing on streets that no one else is, then we need to keep him here. We also need to make sure that his investments are secure. I remember what it was like when I first got here. It was really hard even though I had plenty of handlings in other places. If I can help Nate to strengthen the West Side I will… I also own properties on that side of town and want those properties to go up in value.”

The way Nate looks at it, The City has been communicating with him through a series of fines. “There are prostitutes walking down the street," Nate continued. "But The City knows they have no money. So I’m an easy target. I’m willing to work with The City if they’re willing to work with me.”

Some people might say that an investor should do his or her homework before coming into a 'foreign' real estate market. And if you can't hack it, then get out. Apparently there are plenty of investors who 'can't hack it'. That's why there are only a few legitimate out-of-state investors who continue to invest here. Kissling is one. The team of Wendes Jones and Kenneth Beaver is another, albeit on a smaller scale. But look at what they are doing on Wadsworth, and then look at their own experience. A quote from Wendes:

"My own experience has been unpleasant at best. I’ve heard from many others of similar or even worse struggles. Let’s join together, form a manageable agenda, and present a unified reasonable voice-of-the-people face to the people hired by us to manage these municipal functions. While it is important to fully express the unreasonable reality of the current permitting process, the idea here is not to rehash individual mistreatment but, rather, to devise concrete steps that can become solutions for all of us."

digulios

What Others Have To Say

  1. kooksapalooza

    2 ratings12345
    Sep 25th, 12:54

    wait..we fine these guys but the people who dont do shit to their houses and let them fall apart dont get fined at all? WAKE UP BUFFALO!

  2. fredrico

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 25th, 13:06

    I need Mike's telephone number Too.

  3. Texpat10

    2 ratings12345
    Sep 25th, 13:43

    I am not sure I understand how this works. Where were the fines on Freudenheim when the Livery fell apart? I am sure they must have been levied but he obviously doesn't pay them. Why do these guys? BUT, that said, let's be careful about not talking both sides of this issue. You can't complain about the city not doing enough about neglected property and then say that they should turn a blind eye just because someone has good intentions. There must be a way to get the fines reduced or dismissed once the property is fixed up.

  4. joey

    1 ratings12345
    Sep 25th, 13:56

    AHHHHH BUFFALO...you're DAMNED if you do...and your DAMNED if you dont. When will leaders in Buffalo start thinking outside the box??? They only go after people who are responsible..they know that they're wasting their time with others..and just let em go.

  5. berniceheartsyou

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 25th, 14:01

    Mike is a great guy and he truly believes in buffalo and will go out of his way to make things happen. =)

  6. berniceheartsyou

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 25th, 14:02

    Mike is a great guy and he truly believes in buffalo and will go out of his way to make things happen. =)

  7. needles

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 25th, 14:37

    Some laws should be enforced at the discretion of the trained individual(or not trained friend/relative of a city official) enforcing them, not to be taken exactly literal, but enforced FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE CITY.

    It defies all logic and, more importantly, probably isn't the original intent of the law.

  8. whynot

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 25th, 15:42

    Buffalo is not easy to work with at any level. We are prohibitive to businesses big and small, and this needs to change if we ever want to improve.

  9. fredrico

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 25th, 15:45

    How can I reach Mike or Nate - because I was thinking of buying a nearby foreclosure house (it's in REALLY bad shape) and I don't want to do it if I am going to be getting a ton of fees and fines?

  10. GDF81

    1 ratings12345
    Sep 25th, 15:55

    More bullshit politics for buffalo, I mean this makes me sick reading this guys plight with this BACKWARDS CITY, does this even make any sense? who the hell is fining him? these inspectors and city people need to go .. i guess leaving the city like a big mess is a good plan!

  11. chrishawley

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 25th, 22:30

    Hey Fredrico, I've got dibs on this hottie! If anyone gets his phone number, it's me! :)

    Hey, what's up with all the hot guys investing in Buffalo lately? This is a very nice trend!

  12. allentwnguy1

    1 ratings12345
    Sep 25th, 23:34

    I bought my house in Allentown a few years ago and with in two weeks I had violations in my mailbox. I called city hall for several days trying to find out what this was all about and the inspector didn’t answer (his voice mail was full.) I finally called his supervisor and let loose. I asked if this is how you treat new property owners who are willing to buy these old houses and put money into fixing them up etc etc. After he settled me down and we talked he said to take whatever time I needed to correct the violations. I thought that was really decent of him.

    I think it would have been better if he would have come out to my house to go over things with me, and give me a little guidance on which things to address first and maybe have a list of decent contractors etc. At the same time he would be able to see if I was genuinely interested in fixing up the property or looking for a quick flip. This way the city can have a good rapport with the property owner and help rather than hamper progress. I imagine it takes about the same amount of time to give a little aid than it does a violation.

    Am I daydreaming? Yeah I know keep the city off your property at all costs. Sad.

  13. magnum

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 26th, 13:30

    This city is so screwed up; who ever is issuing these tickets should be fired! This city is so retarded. I recently purchased a house on the West Side and my tenants moved a nice futon onto the porch while they painted the living room. No warning, just a $50 ticket. Apparently, cloth couches are not allowed, but cheesy lawn furniture is. It’s shiite like this that makes me stop investing. Please keep this issue alive, who ever is responsible for these tickets needs to go away fast or I will. The city needs to stop the crime in these beat down neighborhoods (my tenants had their car broken into 3 times last year), clean the garbage on the streets, and fix the cracked sidewalks before they nit pick stupid stuff.

  14. magnum

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 26th, 13:36

    Oh, and don't even think about hiding under the cover of the Mayor's call resolution line. All of the problems mentioned above could easily be seen while walking down the street issuing tickets for couches. Maybe the inspectors should be fining other city departments for failing to do their jobs.

  15. cainvestor

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 27th, 23:48

    i am a california investor as well, but my experience is a bit different. I was screwed by my real estate agent when i bought my first property. The duplex I bought was in need of a new roof. He recommended a roofer whom I hired. He took half the money as a deposit and the other half to be paid upon completion. The roofer never even started but the agent gave him the final payment. I had already left buffalo. later I found out the two were friends and the roofer was a ex convict. I took them to court and the judge actually felt I was to blame and let the agent off the hook! I could not believe how an out of stater is viewed in the court system. It was a joke. Since then I have found a great realtor, bought 5 more properties and things are going great. management is the Key!!!

  16. Assaroni

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 29th, 13:53

    THIS IS WHY BUFFALO WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO GROW AND PROPSER. IT CANT GET OUT OF ITS OWN WAY.... ALL CITY EMPLOYEES SUCK AND ARE UNION SUPPORTING, TEET SUCKLING IDIOTS. GOOD LUCK GETTING ANY MONEY OUT OF ANY OF THESE INVESTMENTS BECAUSE YOURE SCREWED BUDDY.

  17. Assaroni

    0 ratings12345
    Sep 29th, 13:57

    AND WE WONDER WHY WE HAVE A BAD REP? GO DO THIS IN DENVER, MILWAUKEE, PITTSBURG, CLEVELAND, COLUMBUS, SALT LAKE CITY, DALLAS...YOU WILL NOT RUN INTO ANY OF THESE ISSUES...ONLY BUFFALO FOLKS...OTHER CITIES ACTUALLY WANT YOU TO DO BUSINESS THERE!!! IMAGINE THAT????

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