Buffalo Rising Online

interesting idea but what about the farmers that might come back and say this is an unfair disadvantage to them by having a publicly funded farm. While I totally agree that this idea of movement back to the land has merit for the poor. It provides for meaningful work for lots of people. It also provides sustenance for the families. perhaps instead of just pay, the workers could receive a share of the crop. It would help to defer their day to day costs.

While a private corporation must eventually meet certain profit margins to remain viable, the success of a public benefit corporation can be measured much differently.

Turn on the tax vacuum! If it doesn't turn a profit, just keep subsidizing it with more tax dollars until what? What are the measures of success, number of former welfare recipients taken off welfare? Number of uneducated high school drop-outs who now have a state funded job?

I have become very cynical about these types of feel-good projects because they don't deliver on promises and commitments. The success or failure of a government sponsored program like this is arbitrary, so you employee five or ten inner city people for a year until they realize that their welfare benefits are being cut because they are earning money. When they compare the bottom line they realize that it is better to not work than it is to earn something. The liberal ideal that people want to contribute because it improves their self-esteem and if they feel better about themselves then they might just turn around their situation is naive. Welfare is a system that perpetuates itself generation to generation, you can live your entire life off the state and make excuses for why you just can't make it like the rest of the world. We have numerous education programs available to inner city residents, including high school, GED, college, technical, trades, and specialized training. It is there but they are severely underutilized. I taught GED classes for the Buffalo Schools and taught technology classes for the EOC. There were some phenomenal students, but they were the exception. Too many would show up for a day or two to meet requirements for benefits and then never show up again, or they would realize that they were not going to go from welfare to $40,000 the first year and would throw in the towel. Seeing this happen time and again for four years jaded me quite a bit and made me re-evaluate my own liberal idealism. We spend way too much on welfare and inner city issues with very little return on investment. You want to see something change, then deny benefits to anyone who does not have a GED or High School diploma, as an example. I bet you would see a change in the drop-out rate for BPS and an increase in enrollment into the GED programs. I know that someone will say that the problem is the system or the lack of opportunity, but it comes down to the individuals in the system. We won't change mentality and motivation without changing culture and entitlements, and there isn't a politician in office today that is willing to make that type of career limiting move. [/Rant]

BTW, the apple orchards in Niagara and Orleans county have a serious need for laborers due to crackdowns on migrant laborers. We could offer the less fortunate inner-city residents a chance to learn the trade of growing and harvesting fruit, pruning trees, etc. This is a 9 month operation, and I know that there are plenty of opportunities available to make a decent wage that could be supplemented with existing benefits.

Float this idea to the inner-city residents and see how many step-up to take the offer.

As the price of food goes up this makes more sense. Worldwide there is a shortage of wheat and rice. On top of that space for growing new crops has become less available. As the price of diesel fuels used to ship food long distances goes up the idea to home grow produce in Buffalo at lower cost makes more sense. There are now many empty lots across Buffalo. Before any of these spaces get farmed a very close examination for soil contamination must be conducted. I suggest that reductions in water bills be provided by the City of Buffalo to small farming operations in our city. This is an opportunity.

Ideas are like belly buttons... Do it first, talk about it after.

;) haha

1. "Inner city" is a code word for "black." Re-read Einstein's post, replace "Inner city" with "black" and see if it makes your skin crawl.

2. Migrant farm labor doesn't offer a "decent wage." In fact, farm workers aren't covered by much of the labor laws in this state. That's led to terrible conditions, and in some cases virtual slavery.

3. Is Wizardofza actually advocating the removal of "inner city" (wink) children from their homes, placing them in boarding schools and providing them with cultural re-education? If so, he'd have fit right in at the Bureau of Indian Affairs a century ago.

In my opinion from living in a poorer part of Buffalo there are many people that go out to work.

Anything that goes big around here that involves the government involves waste.

Yes let's talk positive incentives.

Let's not fixate on welfare abuse in the shadow of massive corporate abuse and not talk about that.

Instead let's talk about ways for small entrepreneurs who take small abandoned lots and turn them into micro greenhouses and farms. What about block collectives? If some of these small church ministries were approched there might be a way to dialogue and probem solve for lower income Bufalonians and seniors to provide fresh local produce at a lower price for block residents with small farm and green house operations.

Any suggestion to dislocate people for green houses or agricultural operations in Buffalo is a Robert Moses folly.

I have more thoughts on empty lots. I believe these open urban spaces are opportunities for placement of solar installations. Hey if dark and cloudy Germany is heading into the future now with expansion of solar energy production why can't Buffalo?

I wish that I could afford to place a solar installation on my roof. I wish that I could have a small windmill in my yard or upon my roof facing southwest. As a working person these things are beyond my means at the moment. The current rise in prices has put a crunch on my wallet.

It absolutely makes me crazy to see Johnny Morris, Bob and Mindy Rich and Larry Quinn heading up the waterfront development. They are doomed to fail and parcel off the waterfront for big box stores and wealthy oligarchs. The few benefit while the many suffer. Te Harvard professor was dead on about this mess. Now the Main Street mistake is going to run the waterfront area. See how they have replicated McDonalds arches across Main Street with the "interpretive" billboard by the canal district? Also they have installed another one of those solumn black markers with the gold lettering on a pole down there. The history of Buffalo on the waterfront has been squandered to award the well connected. That 45 million could have been used instead within our community on making a dent on energy self sufficiency or training Buffalo workers in green technology business. The 45 mil should have been invested in a Manhattan Project to do something from the top down about the Buffalo Public Schools. The schools in this community should be the best in the nation. We need to provide beter oportunities to those children who come to school to learn and to the parents who stand behind them. We have failed them horrendously by allowing our taxes to be appropriated for a fishing store.

An incentive that I suggest to be used to better educate Buffalonians should be the drivers license. You don't get the privilage to drive until you graduate from high school, have a ged, or have a job before 18 years of age. Those who have graduated, have a ged, or work before 18 should be allowed to apply for a NY Drivers license. An exception would be to those who have joined the military. They would automatically qualify for this privilage. The NY State Drivers license should be based on merit status. No high school diploma, no ged, no job, no military service than no license to drive a car before one is 18 years of age. This has a snowballs chance in hell of being considered when we have a school board obsessed with media leaks when a student is suspended beyond justification and the good ole boys parcelling out the waterfront to the rich and corporate. Nevertheless I have a dream.

The easiest way to help buffalo is probably to invest in some home grown start-ups, or start a company of your own doing whatever it is you're capable of doing. Obviously this isn't something joe bag of donuts is qualified to do in a skillful manner, but Entrepreneurs are what's needed, not more sucking off the government teat

Colin wrote: 1. "Inner city" is a code word for "black." Re-read Einstein's post, replace "Inner city" with "black" and see if it makes your skin crawl.

Colin - The inner city is black, white, hispanic, asian, native american, and just about every other ethnicity under the sun. To you it may seem like I am saying "Black" because you are overly sensitive to it. Look past your prejudices and see things with an open mind for a change.

Colin also wrote: 2. Migrant farm labor doesn't offer a "decent wage." In fact, farm workers aren't covered by much of the labor laws in this state. That's led to terrible conditions, and in some cases virtual slavery.

Colin - Although this was common in the past and still true in some cases, there has been a significant shift in protections for migrant laborers under the Migrant and Seasonal Labor Act (MSPA) and State Labor law. In fact, the US Department of Labor recently expanded coverage of agricultural workers to include H-2A immigrants, migrant families, and non-agricultural day laborers. The definition of 'decent wage' is subjective and differs depending on who you ask. That said, minimum wages for agricultural workers are set by the State and Federal Governments, with specific provisions on what can and cannot be deducted from wages, basic standards for living conditions, transportation, child labor, overtime, etc. Enforcement of rules has increased significantly since 2002 due in part to the involvement of Immigration and Customs Enforcement in monitoring labor laws. I am confident that there are abuses and many cases where laws are not being followed, but they are there to be enforced.

My original point still stands, there is a shortage of agricultural laborers available to farmers throughout the country, including those in Upstate and Western New York. We could look at a program to make these jobs available to able-bodied welfare recipients from around the area (including the inner-city). I am confident that such a program would be non-discriminatory and employ applicants from all ethnic backgrounds.

Let's not fixate on welfare abuse in the shadow of massive corporate abuse and not talk about that.

Rez - I agree that we should not overlook corporate abuse, but this article is about addressing the causes of poverty and it moved into a discussion on Welfare abuses, so I believe that we should fixate on that here. Let's start another thread on the abuses of corporations, this would be a great balance to the negative posts on the abuse of power by Unions and State and Local Governments. The fact that these other abuses occur does not excuse welfare abuse or the perpetuation of poverty.

True. Common Council districts such as Fronczak's Fillmore and Fontana's Lovejoy (and others) all have examples of "inner city" neighborhoods that are majority white - for anyone to whom that matters. It really shouldn't matter.

The inner city is black, white, hispanic, asian, native american, and just about every other ethnicity under the sun.

The agricultural jobs program is an interesting idea. Many farmers in Niagara County have a lot of need for workers. A program to connect farmers with people seeking work, and provide transportation, etc. shouldn't be difficult or expensive to set up. No doubt other neighboring counties too, and even some in Erie Co. If any state funds can be spared from other urgent needs such as adding more new parks, painting peace murals on vacant houses, and keeping the CPO private club restaurant open - this would be an interesting thing to try.

Here's an idea to get rid of poverty: Everyone in NY should give 30% of their pay so that we can fund programs to help the poor. This money would be used for healthcare, social security, education, food stamps, housing, clothes, and job training. I am sure that this would only be necessary for a few years until most of the poor can get the training needed to find good jobs and a better life. All these programs need is a little more money to get the staff and funding to really give people what they need so let's all quit bitching and do our share!

Einstein --

Yes, I know that the inner city includes all sorts of folks. However, the term "inner city" has a very clear connotation. In common usage, the picture it conjures isn't one of Polish people living off Broadway. It is used as a euphemism for "black people." This isn't something I'm making up, and it's known to anyone who pays attention to how language is used.

My knowledge of farm worker isses comes from working with Rural and Migrant Ministries, a great organization that helps farm workers to press for equal treatment under the law. AS far as I know, there are still significant wage and safety protections afforded NYS workers that farmworkkers aren't covered by. I've seen Dale Volker tell these people that he wouldn't support a law granting them these basic protection because it might "make them lazy." What a guy.

Colin - Thank you for the clarification, I now understand your perception and connotation you assign to the term "inner city". Please understand that my connotation of the term is different than yours, I used the term "inner city" to describe people who live in the city, specically the poor in this case. I apologize if using the term under my connotation offended you when put in the context of your connotation, this was not my intention. I understand that in this day and age everyone needs to be extra sensitive and should be extra careful in their choice of words, especially when the term could be construed as referring to the African-American community. Our views and use of this term are different and I respect where you are coming from, again two different meanings and interpretations.

Dale Volker is an ass clown!

I came in contact with the Rural and Migrant Ministries quite a few times while working for Telamon and the Association of Farmworker Opportunity Programs (AFOP). I started working with them in the mid-90s through Americorps, then spent 3 - 4 years working throughout the Mid-Atlantic states. I still volunteer with AFOP, but not nearly as often as I would like. My primary speciality is educating workers on the appropriate use of pesticides, spefically the application and use of organic and natural pesticides that are safer for workers, families, and the environment. I'd like to hear more about your experiences with Rural and Migrant Ministries or how to get more involved with farmers rights here in NY. PM me if you wouldn't mind.

Just out of curiosity, is the city zoned for farming. Obviously it is zoned for residential commercial, industrial, but I do not recall seeing farm identified as a zoning designation. Probably a good reason why it isn’t but I don’t want to smoother granola over anyone’s organic fiber.

Einstein --

I tried to pm you, but ti kept bouncig me back to my own profile. Shoot me an email -- eagercolin at gmail.com