Buffalo Rising Online

I hate NYS. We need to allow for home rule. We allow the state to tell us whats best for us or dictate to us what we need to do or accept. Another expressway is not whats best for our waterfront, I think the average WNYer knows that.

How about Buffalonians or WNYers decide what we want to do with our waterfront? Whats it matter to NYS if we have an elevated expressway or a parkway. I would bet the cost is just about the same.

NYSDOT? Why not explain your plan to the common council? What are you afraid of?

You are right. Now is the time to take a stand. Things have been the same way for the past 50 years in Buffalo and that is because nobody will step up and challenge the school bully(NYS) and make things better for everyone. I think that now more than ever are sick of not having a say in what happens to our area and this is the perfect opportunity to show our displeasure with what is going on!

You are right. Now is the time to take a stand. Things have been the same way for the past 50 years in Buffalo and that is because nobody will step up and challenge the school bully(NYS) and make things better for everyone. I think that now more than ever are sick of not having a say in what happens to our area and this is the perfect opportunity to show our displeasure with what is going on!

We? Who is it that is organizing the protest? Al I see in the rant is we, we, we, we...

By the way, as usual for Buffalo, wait until construction has begun to get up in arms. Where were you a couple of months ago when just the detour was under construction.

Can we get some backing from the Wendt Foundation on this or are they all tapped out from the casino battle?

Dear fellow Southtown Connector protestors..

In order to be more successful I would urge you to redirect your plan of attack

Make the higher priority the lift bridges to the inner/outer harbor and the Tifft Street Connector to I-190.

It will change the entire argument for the Skyway and South towns connector if it comes last.

BWeiner- are you wearing your clan garb to the protest?

Was City Hall completed in 1929? Or 1931?

Most people don't know. But what they do know is that it's a great building the defines our city.

Doing the right thing is what's important, not the timing of it.

Build the Boulevard.

sweeper...there would be an arterial that would go from the other side of the tifft st. bridge to the 190 I believe somewhere near Smith St.

While I agree what they are doing now is a mistake, its already in mid-progress. Unfortunately, I think a protest is moot. I hear they are doing preliminary studies on connecting the inner/outer harbor via a new bridge. studies were done 10-15 years ago on this, why not use those and get it done. Better yet, why not just rebuild the Michigan Street Bridge, the roadways are already in place.

Lke to walk along the bikepaths. Since they moved all the traffic to furnham it is next to impossible to carry on a conversation with co-walkers. the noise is actually deafening.

ie fuhrmann

Make sure you send out press releases to every media outlet, and call Michael Kearns cause he agrees with you. Ask him to make a statement, that's newsworthy.

I do agree with commenters that we need alternative routes and bridges. But it seems like a waste of money to rebuild this elevated highway, it's going to have to come down at some point, just like the skyway.

It's not easy to build a new route because of the river and railroad tracks, but we need our waterfront real estate back on the tax rolls.

And...

Here we go again. 7 years too late.... Seriously; GIVE IT UP. Volunteer for something to make a real change in Buffalo. Instead of marching around an almost built roadway, volunteer. Work on our illiteracy rate; mentor a child; volunteer to help impoverished youths on the East Side. You want to change the City?

A roadway isn't going to fix, or create the ills of the City of Buffalo; but if you took the efforts of the lawyers, and protesters, and turned it into fundamental CHANGE we could fix crap 'round here. That thing is just asphalt, and concrete. Our problems go deeper than that.

Put a fork in it; it's done, guys.. Have you been down there? I do, every day. It's like 25% built... And NY State isn't going to blow it up, and start over just because a few peeps march around with sings.

When anyone here is ready to start enacting fundamental change in the city; let me know, I'll send you names/phone numbers of places where you can get your hands dirty on weekends, like I do almost every weekend... Commuting in from the Evil 'burbs to do it.

And...

Here we go again. 7 years too late.... Seriously; GIVE IT UP. Volunteer for something to make a real change in Buffalo. Instead of marching around an almost built roadway, volunteer. Work on our illiteracy rate; mentor a child; volunteer to help impoverished youths on the East Side. You want to change the City?

A roadway isn't going to fix, or create the ills of the City of Buffalo; but if you took the efforts of the lawyers, and protesters, and turned it into fundamental CHANGE we could fix crap 'round here. That thing is just asphalt, and concrete. Our problems go deeper than that.

Put a fork in it; it's done, guys.. Have you been down there? I do, every day. It's like 25% built... And NY State isn't going to blow it up, and start over just because a few peeps march around with sings.

When anyone here is ready to start enacting fundamental change in the city; let me know, I'll send you names/phone numbers of places where you can get your hands dirty on weekends, like I do almost every weekend... Commuting in from the Evil 'burbs to do it.

Yes! Please get this freeway redone immediately. And please start to secure the funding to make RT 5 an elevated limited acress highway all the way to Dunkirk. Dunkirk residents need a 5 min commute to Buffalo too. We can run along the existing Rt 5 to Clifton Springs, then run along the existing Lake Shore Rd to Silver Springs where it can than meet up with Rt 5 again into Dunkirk.

We know with out a doubt from some commentors here that expressways right on the water are great and desirable. We can create little roads next to it for local access. Lets not deprave our southtown waterfront borthers and sisters from these wonderful road projects on thier home turf. And besides, Buffalo is almost entirely hollowed out, with out continuing to make it easier to commute from farther and farther away, how are we to ensure that the first ring suburbs now get their chance at no reinvestment, plight, vacancy and return to grass fields that Buffalo was blessed with. It has already started but lets really get it moving. Why make them wait?! If we don't subsidize decay and sprawl then what else are we supposed to do?

Easy Commute = Dying City.

mepolo, if you won't give up your acre of peace and quiet, why should city residents give up the outer harbor for your expressway?

Well the extant design of Furhman Blvd. is being redesigned with a NEW configuration, but the elevated highway will still be there. So does the outer harbor stop at the skyway? What about the rest of the land that may be redeveloped? Since nothing has happened for 20+ years, does that mean things are working well? Why is it that people in Buffalo seem to always settle for whatever is handed to them and not strive for better? Why not have a redesigned blvd. that allows for more tax ratable land to be redeveloped?

mepolo brings a perspective often missing in Route 5 discussions. Her comments in this thread about traffic realities and existing waterfront land use greatly weaken the "anything except one single boulevard is a tragedy" kind of arguments seen all too often.

I would love to tax the deer, those bastards get off cheap! I understand that some of the land is currently utilzed, but in Master planning the site, those uses are not the highest and best uses. I just think the area needs to be planned for 20-50 years down the road, not the current use. Those occupants on the waterfront could be located anywhere throughout the city, they don't need waterfront usage. I guess a compromise for us would be rezoning the waterfront in that location. I'm not looking to drive profitable businesses away from their current locations, but think that preparing for a conversion of that space to residential/marina should be in the master plan, and that plan should include specific transportation planning.

I think that is more of a threat mentality. "I will not bring my money or work in the city anymore so lets keep the commute easy while Buffalo dies a slow death" has not worked the past 50 years either. Or has it?

Maybe there are those that do live more inland where the diversion to 90 is not that bad, leaving Rt 5 for those that live closer to the water. Traffic sorts itself out after while. Like water it flows along the easiest routes. You also can not base it on a temporary detour with most likey "dumb signals" located on it. Why dedicate a waterfront to allow for 3hrs of max use per day during commutes? Time the signals on the new road for morning/evening commute efficiency on peak hours. The rest fo the day let it grow into something more than a parking lot with some trails by it. This is barrier #1. the future of this sight not only effects the water front but S Buffalo as well. Right now it takes a trip over rail road tracks and then under a highway to even get a hint that water is nearby. S Park, Hopkins etc could use help to in starting to shore up S Buffalo and stop a slide there. Imagine a parkay from S Park to the water? Or one along Tift. It is not an overnight fix, but with proper long range planning and infrastructure done right when replacement time comes there is at least a chance.

Yes we have LaSalle Park and it is underused. Good reasons are that is it cut off from the rest of the city by the 190 and sits there alone. No integration. With Rt 5 intact as an elevated wall this outer harbor area will be no different than LaSalle. We may get some sporadic developments but they wil be surrounded by parking lots due to the drive in nature of this area and no synergy will build. Buffalo deserves the change to reclaim this large piece of land and work it to its biggest advantage, while taking into consideration those that commute. But they should not be on the top of the list.

People are scared, and I do respect that. but looking at other cities, much larger than Buffalo, that have removed thier waterfront highways amid initial fear, we see it worked out and the difference it made in investments and quality of life for th eimmediate area. We do not need to be pioneers here. but, we can be progressive and part of the initial wave which will also show some "new thinking" in this area to those outside of it.

We all claim we want Buffalo to change. Don't the fear the big opportunities when thay actually arrive.

I love the waterfront, and we need it back in order redevelop Buffalo. We need sensible streets on the outer harbor, from Tifft street all the way north to the lighthouse. We need more bridges connecting the city to the outer harbor. People want to live and play near the water, people want to live near a beach where they can swim. The quicker we reclaim the waterfront the better.

But I DO see the problems of putting traffic lights in this high volume stretch without adding alternatives. I had thought that Ohio Street could carry a lot of the traffic after the skyway goes, but that's where the traffic light is now, and it's a pain in the butt. The 190 and 90 are already congested at rush hour, they can't absorb all the cars that Use route 5 to get to the city. Who killed the southtowns connector project? if we would have built that, we wouldn't be having this controversy now, cause we wouldn't need this stupid elevated road. Also there are a bunch of train tracks leading from Hamburg and Blasdell to the city, light rail makes sense, it would be a lot quicker than driving.

Eventually we should have timed traffic lights, that allow pedestrians to cross the road but also keep cars moving smoothly along a waterfront boulevard. 35-45mph just like the Elm / Oak Corridor. I'd like to do this now, but I see the practical limitations as mepolo has mentioned. Perhaps we need to develop the land we have there in order to justify tearing down the road and building the southtowns connector. Tifft Farms is the only major thing on the other side of the road right now. I agree that the new configuration will be better than the old, not great, but better. They are going to add a new tunnel connecting Tifft Farms to the Beach and Small Boat Harbor.

I love the waterfront, and we need it back in order redevelop Buffalo. We need sensible streets on the outer harbor, from Tifft street all the way north to the lighthouse. We need more bridges connecting the city to the outer harbor. People want to live and play near the water, people want to live near a beach where they can swim. The quicker we reclaim the waterfront the better.

But I DO see the problems of putting traffic lights in this high volume stretch without adding alternatives. I had thought that Ohio Street could carry a lot of the traffic after the skyway goes, but that's where the traffic light is now, and it's a pain in the butt. The 190 and 90 are already congested at rush hour, they can't absorb all the cars that Use route 5 to get to the city. Who killed the southtowns connector project? if we would have built that, we wouldn't be having this controversy now, cause we wouldn't need this stupid elevated road. Also there are a bunch of train tracks leading from Hamburg and Blasdell to the city, light rail makes sense, it would be a lot quicker than driving.

Eventually we should have timed traffic lights, that allow pedestrians to cross the road but also keep cars moving smoothly along a waterfront boulevard. 35-45mph just like the Elm / Oak Corridor. I'd like to do this now, but I see the practical limitations as mepolo has mentioned. Perhaps we need to develop the land we have there in order to justify tearing down the road and building the southtowns connector. Tifft Farms is the only major thing on the other side of the road right now. I agree that the new configuration will be better than the old, not great, but better. They are going to add a new tunnel connecting Tifft Farms to the Beach and Small Boat Harbor.

It was decided to do the protest on a saturday for good reasons. Come join us and ask me why. Free coffee and hot coco while it lasts. Press release has been done. Court papers were filed weeks ago. New website to come, but for now we are using message board threads. A new high speed connector can be constructed using the path of Katherine Street. Moving the connector east will allow for the Skyway removal. Come ask me how! Traffic Count Numbers prove a Furhmann Boulevard is all that is necessary for now. Be there and I'll show you. Follow Up Rally will be announced in a couple of weeks. If anyone can distribute marketing material during september or help in other ways, please contact me!

Thanks, Sylvan

It was decided to do the protest on a saturday for good reasons. Come join us and ask me why. Free coffee and hot coco while it lasts. Press release has been done. Court papers were filed weeks ago. New website to come, but for now we are using message board threads. A new high speed connector can be constructed using the path of Katherine Street. Moving the connector east will allow for the Skyway removal. Come ask me how! Traffic Count Numbers prove a Furhmann Boulevard is all that is necessary for now. Be there and I'll show you. Follow Up Rally will be announced in a couple of weeks. If anyone can distribute marketing material during september or help in other ways, please contact me!

Thanks, Sylvan

ps - why is this site so slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww...lol

All of you that think that an expressway is a good idea on the waterfront have not been educated about the issue. While I agree that alternative routes would be better, my big issue is having an expressway on the waterfront.

There is no need for it. The traffic data proves it. There are roads that carry more traffic daily than route 5, and they aren't expressways. We will show you the data if you come check us out.

The bottom line is: The citizens of Buffalo deserve to have a proud waterfront. Our roads should not be there for suburbanites to have a "quick commute home."

Removing the Skyway and the expressway will restore over 80 acres of waterfront. That's quite a bit.

Development has been inhibited on the waterfront for 50 years because of bad decisions. Now we have a chance to tailor a roadway to meet the needs of the city.

I'll be damned if I'm going to pass up this chance.

I'll see you at the protest Saturday.

Harry is another uninformed poster. Read the data Harry, and actually read what we're trying to do.

Did you go to the Buffalo Niagara Riverkeeper Web site?

Did you read what they had to say?

Did you watch the video they posted?

Did you read their complaint against the state?

If you can't say yes to any of those questions---your argument is weak. If you want to disagree, that's fine. However, you need to actually read what you are supposedly opposing.

Are you saying you're willing to continue paying the ridiculous maintenance costs for the skyway and route 5? They're pretty high. Are you saying the Skyway is at all still useful? It is obsolete. Unecessary. Ugly. In the way.

Hamburg has a nice waterfront, sorry---but Buffalo deserves one, too. We don't deserve some ugly road that bypasses our waterfront, which it does. That is fact.

We definitely don't need 8 lanes on the waterfront. Did you read that part? You like the 8 lane idea?

Saturday at 10:00 AM!

Don't be one of those that just complain---

Do something about it!

Show NYS we're sick of bending over!

Small Boat Harbor parking lot!

Im leaving for the small boat harbor now.

Please come and HELP US stop the "retoration" and get the grade of road LOWERED (for now).

There are other details that apply that simply need to be discussed between people who care about the future of this area.

I hope to see all of you there!!!!!!!!!!

The suspense is killing me. I can't wait for BRO to write about the "rally". I hope there was enough coffee and hot cocoa for everyone! lol.

Thank you to all who showed up at the rally today. We got some good press coverage, with Channel 2 and 4 being there, as well as some bloggers and an Internet cameraman.

The coffee and donuts were all eaten---thanks for that--didn't want to have to take any home!

Thank you to Mickey Kearns and Dan Humiston for their support of this project, and their ongoing efforts to make sure the right road is built.

This was a success! To all the naysayers out there-- it isn't too late. It isn't too expensive, it can AND will be done!

Thank you!

Success Beyond Expectation for sure!!!!!!!!!!!

Note to everyone on Buffalo Rising: Stay tuned for the date of the next Rally. WE CAN change the grade of the road IF WE BAND TOGETHER and follow through with this.

Anyone who can help with distributing materials please contact me so I can get the materials to you.

Thanks!

Hi Harry,

I agree that the city has many causes. All cities do, right? A small group rallied to draw attention to an "elevated" road section along the waterfront that is being "RESTORED" irresponsibly. I am happy that you are well informed, but I wonder if that is only of the Status Quo?

http://www.wivb.com/global/story.asp?s=9004233

Harry, your idiotic comments and stupid rantings prove that you know nothing on this issue. You obviously read the stuff, but obviously don't understand.

The boulevard plan WAS agreed to and it was changed. Just because you say it wasn't doesn't change fact.

10 people is a lot for an initial protest. You were probably the idiot who drove by and called us "losers." Don't worry, there will be more at the next one.

Well, if you think that, it's cool. While your wasting your gas acting like a 12 year old, we're making the city a better place for the children who will inherit it.

The INJUNCTION is not a rant, it is a fairly solid document that outlines a state agency that is not listening to the people of the community. Right or wrong, the fact that the local majority is not being listened to by the state should piss you off. It scares me that it doesn't, because that tells me you're one of those people who just doesn't care what happens around here anymore.

I'll be damned if I'm going to be one of those people. This is a good cause---and the waterfront deserves to be completed. Properly. You can keep stalking protests and acting like a fool, while others are taking back their city.

Robert Moses effectively destroyed waterfronts all over this state. He split neighborhoods in half. All because of stupid, idiotic planning.

Other cities have successfully removed roads like our route 5, leveled them, and created lower speed roads that were development friendly. This is why enlightened cities do. This is what Buffalo should also do.

Anyone who says there is too much traffic, they're wrong. I have the numbers right in front of me for 2007. Anyone who says it is too expensive, they're wrong. The construction numbers never took into account the mining of the concrete that could be used to construct the new roadway, thereby lowering cost. Anyone who says it will be a traffic nightmare, they are wrong. A 4-lane straight parkway will provide plenty of moving room.

We don't need Robert Moses development. We need enlightened development.

We also don't need a bunch of pricks calling us names and telling us we're losers because we're trying to do the right thing. Grow up. I don't mind when people disagree, but if you're going to act like a 2 year old about it, just keep your mouth shut. I have a very low tolerance for BS, especially from adults acting like children.

Peace. With your help, we will get the Buffalo we deserve.

Harry, dude...the city and DOT agreed to it 2 YEARS AGO! The DOT changed the plan a year later and refused to come to the table and explain why.

I don't understand why you are in support of an expressway down there. It isn't necessary. Everything you've heard from the DOT is a lie. There isn't too much traffic, it won't cost too much, and the public did NOT agree to the current plan.

On top of that--why are tax payer dollars being wasted to demolish a road and rebuild it?

Hi Harry,

Just curious. Why do you disagree with lowering the grade of the existing south towns connector when the long term goal is to...

1. Construct a new connector between the 190 and Rt5 from near Smith Street, along Katherine Street, to [near] the Ohio Street exit.

2. This proposed connector farther east will allow for the Skyway removal.

3. The entire area from the first ward to the inner harbor, and along the Buffalo River to almost the enitre outer habor will be "Set Free" to be developed by the type of developers and investors whose interests are creating prosperous economies in 21st century enviornments.

Harry, Buffalo/Niagara has set precedents for the country and the world in past era's because of its location and resources. Those era's are gone. So, why not take advantage of the oppertunities of the future?