Buffalo Rising Online

Condos priced from $300,000? Where are these people coming from? One would think they would offer some starting price ranges to attract 30-something young professionals.

WOW - the glass exterior certainly is the way to go.

BFLORome - we're listing the 6 unit building at 291 Bryant St for $329,900. It would make a wise investment as a condo conversion, especially with new kitchen cabinets and granite countertops being installed. Some people call it the Buffalo Rome building - any relation to you?

Looks good. Hope the work starts soon.

Sweet! Delaware Avenue is rockin' indeed with some new buildings/designs. Luv it!

This is fantastic! This section of downtown, along Delaware, is really becoming the place for development. Hopefully something will get built on the parking lots on the east side of Delaware between Mohawk and Huron. Another Buffalo City Tower, anyone?

I never thought the exterior of the Dulski was all that bad...my only comment was that they should build out the 1st and/or 2nd floor to the sidewalk for retail....and a nice lobby.

I wonder how energy efficient all that glass is going to be...at $300k....and association fees and property taxes...no one wants a huge utility bill on top of it....even though the views are going to be incredible, I still wish they would build out to the sidewalk.....

As I said before....we could use another 3 or 4 Gates/Dulski's in Buffalo easily and I do believe that we would have the tenants and businesses to fill them.

That being said....Buffalo still has to work harder to create jobs. It doesnt set a great precedent for the city to be losing 1000 jobs at american axle and the mayors top priority is not job growth but payroll raises and lifting the control board (the only real mechanism to contol spending)

ONLY complaint is that the lower floors weren't extended fully to Delaware with space for retail. Could have extended the Chip district a little and diversified it. But I guess you need those weird roundabout things if your going to run a traditional hotel, and the rest of the project sounds perfect. Uniland has been rockin' in the city lately!

Here's my armchair comment, an observation really:

The glass extension off the facade seems to be taken right from the "frozen waterfall" element in Bashar Issa's City Tower design. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, I'm just noticing the apparent similarity.

That said, amazing project. I'm glad to see this going forward and I'm hoping to see an asbestos tent around the building this summer. We are going to see some great urban density and vitality here once this project, City Tower, Statler, 285 Deleware, and Federal Court are completed.

this will ruin Ellicott's radial street plan! it is architecturaly inappropriate for thsi site! its out of context! the views and airflow at new era will be ruined! i'm starting a petition! this must be stopped!

I think modifying the exterior is a waste of money. The exterior doesnt look bad as it is. I wish someone would change the facade of city hall. It is the ugliest building I have ever seen. Otherwise, hope the redevelopment works out. It is a great location.

BfloRome and WZAS,

I think there's probably a bigger market for these than you realize, how many other highrise condos are there downtown? Don't get me wrong, I wish there were some more economical options as well, but this is an expensive renovation, they're not going to be giving the units away.

Aside from that, I'm not sure very many of the folks that may be losing their jobs at American Axle are the type of people interested in buying high-rise condos downtown.

IMADIVA - Maybe they could strike a deal to use New Era's lot during off hours for whatever overflows from the underground lot.

Also, I've been thinking about my earlier comment, about the facade being similar to the City Tower. Perhaps this is a good thing... after all it "reflects the character of the buildings around it" right... and that seems to be on people's minds these days. Also, that horizontal overhang at the very top mimics the ones at 285 Delaware. New Buffalo Vernacular? "Waterfall" outcroppings and horizontal overhangs. I'll take it. I can't wait to walk down Delaware from Niagara Sqaure to the Church on Tupper in 2010 when all these projects should be completed.

$300,000 is a steal for a high-rise condo with views, underground parking and front-door access to downtown!

If Uniland moves forward on this project soon - they have a tendency to announce plans far before they are ready to build - the company should consider extending part or all of the street-level elevation to the property line along Delaware, particularly if a restaurant concept is considered and would be part of the Chippewa entertainment district.

auto-workers don't live in high rise condo's.....really??? oNly in buffalo. Severe shortage of this type of living space in wny!!! They shouldn't have any trouble selling what so ever.. much easier than BAshars 500k units. No body thinks theres money here at all.... theres more than auto workers in this town... doctors, lawyers, executives, and bosses everywhere in the buffalo area that are interested in codnos and high end apartments!!

Delaware Ave. is coming right along! In fact...I think there might be one less "For Lease" sign on the windows!

Make sure it gets to the street and it wil be perfect.

Will keep my fingers crossed that this gets done.

I would like to see a rendering of all the NEW stuff in that area together. The courthouse/City Tower/Dulski. This looks very nice and modern. All that area needs is a Mighty Taco !!! LOL

Hospitable- I know, it's crazy, right?

Great to see! Now I am usually one of the most optimistic people but with this project, the Statler, the Buffalo City Tower and now the Hyatt getting a $12M renovation wont the hotel market in Buffalo be a touch saturated? Especially since it was just announced that convention bookings in the next two years are down 30%. I feel the city can absorb the condo/ apartment and office space but I’m skeptical about the hotel space. Then again these developers didn’t become millionaires on luck and good looks so they must know something I don’t. Yay anyways.

How do you create a diverse, dynamic urban environment without delivering affordable ownership opportunities for the 30-something-and-up professional crowd? And forget the $1200 per-month upscale apartment developments we've seen so much of over the last couple of years. They deliver a transient audience that has no vested interest in the City--and delivers little to the tax base.

You want to spur Downtown service-oriented small business growth? You have to start giving young professionals a reason to be here and stay here! For example, we talk about the declining number of physicians we have. They train here--and get out of Dodge! Becasue Downtown has so much unmet potential. Give them a reason to stay and make a nice life here! Young professional singles...young professional couples...etc.

$300,000-and-up limits the potential to deliver the same. Will they sell? Maybe...to the select, well-established, late 40-and-up crowd--which is good. But it will include those who may only live here 4 months a year. It's about critical mass.

Now pass me some more of that 'I believe in New Buffalo' hydroponic weed! And give some to Uniland and Issa too...and maybe some for those Zombies at the ParkLane condos!

SAL--no relation to the building on Bryant!

Andrew if it were up to me, I would knock the Adams Mark over, redo the Hyatt with half apartment space. Buffalo isn't in need of a large amount of additional hotel rooms at the moment, convention bookings are down ( see our lovely convention center) but non-group hotel bookings are up.

First class hotel space.. (rooms, banquet, meeting, fitness, etc) are at a premium in the buffalo area. ( See the Mansion and the Hampton Inn on Deleware Avenue) Proved by the fact that these properties sell more rooms than anything else.

New hotel space in buffalo puts further stress on larger unmanaged, unprofitable properties such at the Adam's Mark, Hyatt, Comfort Inn, Lafayette ( lol)... etc to adapt and upgrade for the current environment.

It shames me to know that people who come to Buffalo for the first time have a good chance of staying at the Hyatt and the Adams Mark if in the dt area..... which area seen as the two landmark properties of the region... the Hyatt hasn't made money since it opened 20 yrs. ago and the Adam's Mark have 250 empty rooms if the Sabres/Bills aren't playing a home game. Please what a joke..

Major hope for Bashar's hotels, Uniland... and maybe even a new Lafayette one day.

Buffalo needs a nice hotel downtown. Both the Hyatt and Adam's Mark are3 star hotels..I don't like staying at either, but don't really have any other options downtown

Also, 300k is NOT alot of money for a nice condo. Here in manhattan you can't even find a studio for less than a half million. My buddy in southern california just bought a 300k+ house near San Bernardino (which is not a very desirable location in the grand scheme of things). We're both 25, and he works as a D-III college football coach (not exactly huge money)

I would love to purchase a condo for 300-500k in 4 years time in downtown buffalo

Ike, you've been missing The Mansion if you're looking for a good hotel stay.

"Andrew if it were up to me, I would knock the Adams Mark over"

Hospitable: Why not just re-face the Adams Mark?

I'd also like to see HSBC Tower with a new facade, too! (dreaming, I know...)

BFLORome - your comment on getting more young full-time residents with more affordable condos is true. But you can't ignore the economics on the development side. Performing an expensive rehab of a tower then selling condos for only 90k will never turn a profit. So, they sell them for 300k instead. They have to in order to recoup their investment.

BTW, condos in the desirable areas of ANY city is going to be very expensive. In NYC "expensive" is 2 million. In Buffalo "expensive" is 300K. If you want more affordable condos, you have to look away from the best areas. Simple real estate economics.

Someone wrote that Buffalo's tax rate is 3.5%. Perhaps they were including other services like water, user, etc., but Buffalo's tax rate is 2.6%. 2% to the city and approx. .6% to the county. A $300,000 home in Buffalo will cost you $7,800 a year in taxes, not $10,500.

300 miles...I get the economics and know the diffs between NYC and B-Lo...thanks...just hoping for more condo developments in the 150-175-200K starting range and up with all the rehabs going on...not 90K. You look at a development like Granite Works or the IS Lofts...or the new Ellicott Development project (Holling Press Bldg)...assuming they could be in that range--if they were condos.

Warning: quibble alert. Those with low quibble tolerance are urged to move along.

Agree with all about the economic benefit and reuse of the building. This is way better news than an expensive demolition followed by another vacant lot for 50 years.

The only problem is that glass boxes look better than everything else in digital renderings and worse than everything else in the flesh. Name one glass box in Buffalo that inspires affection or even the memory of its name and address. Plus, is the market really strong enough to fill two condo towers at $300K or more a pop? Isn't it just slightly possible that Gates Circle will cannibalize the market for this tower or vice versa?

My main point that I didn't make very well was that, in Buffalo, due to it's low housing costs, the best profitability for deveopers is in Luxury condos. So that is what they're going to build. Until the luxury market is saturated we won't see any new condos under 200K.

But I think it is more plausable for converting existing apartments into condos in that price range (like the conversion planned on Delaware Avenue.)

Did anyone catch this tidbit in the Buffalo News last week?
Roughly 6,000 households in Erie County and another thousand in Niagara earn $200,000 or more, according to the 2005 American Community Survey from the U.S. Census Bureau.

Only 7,000 households in WNY that earn over $200,000 per year? The market for $300,000+ condos may be a lot more limited than some people would lead us to believe. This is 7,000 households spread between luxury houses in the suburbs, the houses along Delaware Park, Linwood and Delaware Aves, and along the Niagara River. Without an increase in salaries and high paying jobs, I believe that we may be setting the area up for another failure. Either that or we will see a redistribution of wealth from the suburbs to the city, which will open up more suburban housing for current city residents. My personal vote is to wait until we have sufficient wealth and demand in the city to accommodate the increase in luxury condos.

annual Income vs net worth. two different things. With a down pament, you could qualify with an 80-90k. Income...

Also Don't forget two income households.

Are you kidding me, most mortgage companies will write you a $400,000 mortgage based on a $50,000 a year job and a fair credit history. Why do you think that the subprime and near prime mortgage lenders are in so much trouble these days? I am definitely not, not, not, not endorsing this as a good financial practice at all! It is a recipe for disaster. With sale, fees, taxes, and incidentals, the minimum combined salary, with 10% down payment is around $110,000 a year. There are a lot of households in Buffalo who earn at least that yearly.

I found the 7,000 household over $200K report interesting; it seems low and misleading. This includes dual income households that file and report jointly, given the number of doctors, professors, engineers, business leaders, and entrepreneurs in the area, it seems very low.

Renovation of Hyatt - Condos, Office, Hotel at Statler - Condo, Office, Hotel and Dulski building - High rise Condo's on waterfront - 1200/month loft apartments - declining population - declining tourism and conventions -

WHO IS GOING TO PURCHASE AND LEASE ALL THIS SPACE - ?

BuffaloGal is dead on - without abatement support this project is going NO WHERE - FAST

This is part of the problem that leads to the negativity in this town - everyone on this site is assuming this project will be completed - there are a shit load of logistics, subsidies, state and federal grants that still need to be ironed out -

Lets not discuss design and features and weather or not glass facade blends in with our urban fabric (what fabric) - instead lets get the legislation passed.....

It is so predictable: If new high end housing is announced in the city of Buffalo people come out of the wood work complaining that there is no market, where will the people come from? WNY does not have this kind of spending power. This should not be built. But, you never hear this talk with each new high end Clarence subdivisions. Why is that?

Also 300K in Buffalo is more equivalent to 900K or more in Vegas so any tax payments should be compared based on equivalent property type. Also most taxes in Nevada are payed for through gambling and tourist trade. Nevada is an oddball that does not make for a fair comparison to NY...That is not t to say that NYS is not corrupt and over governed.

Build it! Let the developers worry if there is a market. They should know their business

Steel makes good points, plus the less than 1% tax rate for Las Vegas is wrong...that is the statewide average which is highly skewed due to the fact that 1) so much of the state is uninhabited and 2) most of the land in Nevada is owned by the Federal Government. I just looked at my most recent tax bill and I'm paying 3.34 percent. Phoenix is running around 6% (checking the Maricopa County website)

Boring boring boring.... didn't Bashar alter the Statler plans to include more office space instead of condo. space due to the large ## of condos in the works???? Find me other large scale condo. towers in Buffalo... the ones we have now ( waterfront place) aren't that attractive and are on a week average double the 300k price we see here. While we're comparing Buffalo to Las Vegas... let's compare it to Orlando, Raleigh, and Atlanta ... all low tax, new development cities.. instead of comparing to cities our own size or with similar environments...high tax, new development. Again.. vegas not a fair comparison

anyone have any updates on this????