Buffalo Rising Online

How is it a negative value if the current owner upped the price for purchase $2Mill over what he paid a year ago? I will take a piece of that negative value! (and his purchase price was almost 2 mill over the value when Taylor took control)

This is very valuable property that needs to be used better than just sitting there. The building would do more good removed than standing. As much as I would hate to lose this building I think maybe its time to move on. I do not think thought that at this point it should be the city footing the bill to do so. If this property prooves to be as valuable as it seems a developer should filp the bill to take it down.

Could this be a solution to the parking crisis in downtown?

Seriously, I'd love to see new development on the site, either re-use or entirely new construction. However, what demand is there for either office or residential construction, especially with the lack of car traffic on Main St? We can dream of creative reuse or some new high rise, but is there realisitc hope for anthing happening on this site except parking?

I would be interested to see what scale of development Ciminelli and Paladino would place on the site, my guess is it would be a significantly smaller and contain a great deal of surface parking. That being said, I cant imagine a cost effective way to redevelop the current building, regardless of what the property's asking price is.

So here's Ciminelli and Palladino supporting a demo but with no hint that either one will buy the property before or after demolition. Are they hinting that the city should buy back the building at $4 million, ten times the money they paid Richard Taylor to take ownership of it in the 90's.and then pay for its demolition.? The city's $400,000 payment to Taylor so that he would become the owner of the building is even more ridiculous than the city selling the Berger's building to Carl for ONE DOLLAR. Exactly what was Mayor Tony thinking or not thinking when he signed off on these 2 deals? I'd like to know the who's and why's of any deal involving the sale and/or demolition of this building before it happens. Although I'm an advocate of historic preservation, I think the building is too far gone to save and also too economically unfeasible to save and restore. At the same time, if the city does all this then the taxpayers of Buffalo are getting screwed.

wait a minute.. this story sounds familar... weird sense of deja-vu lol...

im glad to see that stupid ideas are still the most powerful ones in buffalo after all these years. this will be a huge loss, replaced probably by a generic 4 story office building in 10 years. super.

It is that last fully intact multi building block downtown. Naturally it needs to go. We can't have any of that!

This scenario was nothing more than a high end flip. I don't believe there was ever any intention to redevelop that site. Don't demolish. Just keep hitting them with with fines until they sell the property. In fact maybe the state AG should look into it. It would be absurd for the city to buy that property at that price. In the future when the city sells property , let's hope there is a contractual obligation requiring the original purchaser to develop the property, or sell it back to the city at a discount to compensate for it being off the market.

NO! Absolutely not! Its not time to give up!

Looking that satellite image....makes the point more poignant than ever! Why because look at what is adjacent to AM&As: Kleinhans, Lafayette Hotel, Liberty Building and others.

These are significant buildings in significant locations...if anything...the international style should go and the original 1893 edifice should be restored.....if anything the facade should be saved and the interior demolished but this is not something to take lightly

Gosh...one would think that the person with the least credibility about demolishing buildings would be the parking lot king of Buffalo Palladino..

We do not need more parking lots...and demolishing AM&As would just leave yet another empty space for years in our downtown core.....in case we havent learned...no one is building on our existing parking lots and existing shovel ready sites.....isnt it a kind of insanity that we are proposing adding yet another

F@#$ing unbelievable...oh wait, very believable!

Same s@#$...different day....astounding price tag.

I agree that if the city was actually smart they would fine the current owners up the a#$% until they sell the property at a reasonable price. No way in hell any public entity should be stupid enough to pay $4 million for those rotting buildings. Those LI-based owners were obviously looking for a big wad of easy money when they bought the properties.

And don't think they're interested in putting a building here. They want it for parking.

More specifically, they want the site for the age-old practice of land-speculation--parking is merely a fool-proof way to make a nice steady profit in the meantime. Players like Paladino and Ciminelli will take every opportunity to gobble up as much downtown land as possible--when the price is right.

Because a weak-market city like Buffalo lacks a land value taxation system, it's such easy money to just snatch up and hold into fallow land and milk it for parking revenue as long as possible. They'll only put up a new building or sell off the land when there is a specific tenant in mind who will bankroll the entire process. In other words zero risk for the developer. This is how things work in Buffalo.

To understand the value of AM&As, see Preservation Ready.

It is SO ideal for ground floor retail and condos.

Funnt, Paladino's this great BRO hero when he circulates an illiterate rant dissing preservationists, but when he pitches a self-serving, discredited urban removal argument, suddenly no one's lining up to give him a b---j---.

Enough already, demolish every stinking run down sh*thole in this god foresaken city. We didn't care enough to save and preserve this structure 10 years ago, so why should we go to great lengths to watch it decay and crumble for another 10? Take it out and start fresh, the same goes for Genesse and Oak, the aud, and pretty much everything near the waterfront. If it isn't occupied then screw it, it isn't worth the political follies of trying to find buyers and developers for all of them.

It may be "SO IDEAL FOR GROUND FLOOR RETAIL AND CONDOS" but the city can't support GROUND FLOOR RETAIL. Did anyone read the story about giving up on restaurants in the Market Arcade after 12 years of failed attempts? How about the revolving door of stores that open, sit idle, then close in the main place mall? The plethora of vacant storefronts that already line Main Street? The place is a ghost town, just waiting for the tumbleweeds. I find the homeless beggars a fitting tribute to the buildings the sit in front of, no one really cares about them until something terrible happens then there is a call to arms to help. We all go back to our safe world and forget about them just as quickly. The same will happen here, there is no use for this building, its spirit is dead. Long live the urban parking lot, may our historic downtown rest in peace.

Downtown Buffalo is a dirty, vacant, DEPRESSING, place to be all year around. It has been this way for over 30 yrs.

Nothing good will EVER come it. Thats not to say that the WNY region is not a nice place to live....it is!

DOWNTOWN IS AN EMBARASSMENT, compared to other cities. Funny thing is, most people around here don't know any better.

IT IS TOO LATE TO BRING IT BACK - DEMOLISH THE WHOLE THING AND START OVER!

Exactly DanielSack... our downtown is one big (50%) shovel ready site. To say we need more is idiotic.

Spend the money, to shore up the building, (charge the own for the costs which can be done by law) and leave it for the private sector to re-use when the time is right. More parking AKA EMPTINESS isn't what makes a downtown vibrant or nice. Yes our downtown is an embarrassment to a lot of other cities, why? Because 50% of it is empty! With no buildings you have no place for things to do. Simple as that.

This is a lose lose situation. Bicker all you want. If the building stays up, who is in line to do something with it? If you tear it down you end up with yet another surface parking lot not likely to be developed on in the near future. Demolish or not...does it really make a huge difference either way??

How about we try to save SOMETHING. An empty lot on Main Street with no plan for something new will be a disaster. There is no compelling reason to tear down this building.

I agree an empty lot is much worse for an urban area than an empty store. Sorry but there are more than enough empty lots in Buffalo for these developers to concern themselves .... and they have set a very bad precedent with all of the demolitions and neglect and empty promises of buiildings on their empty lots.

We should also not forget that this building is adjacent to the Liberty, the Lafayette, Kleinhans and others. Imagine what Klienhans would look like if AM&As and the warehouses were torn down...there is plenty of empty lots all around Buffalo that are shovel ready....I agree wholeheartedly someone ought to make these guys shovel ready.

and one last thing...bring back Eagle Street

Restore our street grid!

Ciminelli calling for more shovel-ready sites is rather interesting.

Approximately two years ago, Citicomm hired Ciminelli to market two of its 'shovel ready' parking lots downtown. One is the former convention center ramp site behind the Hyatt, the second at the south east corner of Main and Swan. There certainly hasn't been a rush of developers for those two sites. So either A) there isn't demand; B) the properties aren't as 'prime' as AM&As; or C) Ciminelli is a terrible marketer. Which is it???

I agree that the AM&A's building is a building worth saving, but everyone needs to understand the costs of saving the building. Comments stating that the building is perfect for condo reuse is correct, but the damage done by 10 years of not being heated (even when Taylor had the building he did not heat the upper floors) along with the water and mold damage in the basement and subbasement, leaking roof, etc, has caused the renovation price to go up exponentially. Asbestos and lead are big problems in both buildings, as well as the crumbling exterior. The building is bowing. The costs to permanently shore up the warehouse structure is going to be large.

Could a developer come in and make it work? Maybe. But it will be extremely difficult. When you can get a max of $1.00 to $1.25 per square foot for luxury apartments, or $150 (what has been proven in this market) a square foot for condos, the finances are extremely tough. Developers are in the business to make a profit. If you can get a savings account where you can get 5% on your money, why would you take a chance on a building where you might make 3% of your money back and undertake a very risky project.

I work in the Brisbane Building next to these buildings and would love to see both of them restored, but realistically, I don't see it happening.

As for the current vacant/parking lots, you will start to see interest as soon as the available space is reduced in the city. We have a vacancy rate of ~3% for class A office and ~12% for class B. Class A space is needed. Large floor plates will drive companies to a building. Look at the LCo Building with its 60,000 sf floor plate. The AM&A's building/land has 35,000 sf floor plates (with Class A rental rates averaging $24 per square foot), the building would need to be sold for a little over $1M to make it work with a decent return. A new building would make more economic sense. New buildings can be constructed at about $100 per square foot depending on its amenities, much lower than a renovation could be done for.

Nothing has been built in a while because our vacancy rates were high and demand low. Things have changed for the better. New buildings will and are being built. Local developers are conservative and most can't afford to take on risk. That's why outside investors are coming in doing what the locals can't. Until we have someone with a large amount of financial backing and a stomach for the risk, the outsiders will be the only people fixing our city without incentives (i.e. Bashar Issa).

the building can always be demolished, but once dimolished any options of resue are gone.

if somebody comes knocking with a ruese plan and a performace bond giving us somthing better, then go ahead and demolish it. Say Issa wanted to put his tower here, had his initial tenents, and then asked the city to tear it down; I could go for something like that. But two kings of parking lots and perpetual shovel ready sites start asking for the city to knock it down? It should go in one ear and right out the other.

Until a viable plan comes along, leave it stand, and work to make the owners accountable. Main St (or DT) does not need more missing teeth. I'd rather walk by an empty building then a parking lot or vacant parcel.

Right on dude... sitting on land to increase in value is going on all over - East Side, downtown, the thousands of State-owned properties not for sale currently...

If there are other shovel-ready sites on Main ST in this area, use those first. The building is just getting worse and isn't a feat in architecture in my mind. If its stable and suitable for condos, save it. If its far past its useful life, demo it, But do it properly. Only if someone showed interest in building there, without significant tax breaks given to them, would I support the city paying to do a demo there. But dont demo just to demo.

Why don't Paladino and Ciminelli look across the street? Demolish Main Place Mall, restore Eagle St. It would probably cost less, too.

The AM&A building will be demolished. This decision was made back in 1996. There is nothing you, nor I can do to stop this process. Take it easy on Carl and Paul. They are just the latest shills pushing this.