Curse of the 70's
The Amherst Campus was envisioned as a highly planned utopia of learning and as such many of the best architects of the early 70's were called on to make their mark on its built environment. As part of that plan highly regarded Chicago architect Harry Weese was selected to design the new law school, one of the most important buildings on campus. Harry Weese is probably best known for his beautiful underground stations for the Washington DC Metro subway system. He has many great buildings to his name. But, he has some major flops as well. Time has revealed O'Brian Hall to be one of those flops. We cannot lay all the blame at the feet of Harry though. He was a victim of his time (along with many if not all the great names who designed buildings on the campus). The 70's was an odd decade in architecture. Architects were struggling to reinvent our worn out cities. Many designers at the time thought of themselves to be part of a new enlightenment in architecture.
In actuality this was far from the truth. The trend was to use massively planned and controlled places like the Amherst Campus as the solution to social and urban problems. They wanted complete control but forgot about the people using these spaces. Places like Amherst (campus) were designed by men (and I wrote men on purpose) who stood around sprawling models while looking down from above at little trees and paths and tiny little dot-like people. They made decisions based not on how people live in and react to space, but on how it looked as a sculptural composition. Random planning rules such as "all buildings shall be composed of brown brick" were imposed. The failures are well known and are commonly chastised.
Yet, even today many of the original 70's planning guidelines remain in place on campus. I remember my reaction to O'Brian Hall when it was new. When young I was very excited by the building. It was big and modern with some innovative elements for its time. The center of the building is the Law Library with a large atrium space at its core. At the focal point of the atrium is a skewed stair (a Weese signature). The stair is interesting to look at but treacherous to use. Ringing the balcony edge is a continuous desktop/railing. To use this desk you actually sit on the floor with your legs in a depress floor edge. It was a very "groovy" kind of youthful architectural detail at its time. Another architectural detail that caught my eye was the private study rooms, which had sliding doors and round windows to the outside. O'Brian Hall would seem a bit quaint today if it was not so oppressive from the outside. This building is at the very center of the Amherst Campus and is probably the building most people think of when they think of that cold lifeless campus.
So now it seems the push is on to build a new Law School. As far as I could find out there is no official plan for a new building and current State finances would seem to rule anything out in the near future. But, if the new Governor pushes through the major growth plan proposed by Spitzer, the University will likely focus on a new Law school building as a major element of that growth. Of course when you talk about the growth of UB many think of the city as well as Amherst. Is there any chance for a new Law School building downtown? It would certainly make sense. All the major courts are downtown. All the major law firms are downtown. Why not the Law School? Graduate schools, such the Law School operate somewhat autonomously from other portions of the University, which means they do not need to be tied to a main campus setting. I think of the empty (Paladino) lot on Court Street as a perfect Law School location. I can dream can't I?
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peripatetic
Just a few quick comments. Harry Weese did a fine job. However, Law faculty wanted large offices in exchange for more publicly used space. O'brien is part of a "Faculty" Ssubgroup of buildings that has never been completed, has been altered counter to the original plan.
The outside green space surrounded by the buildings has been destroyed by misuse of the road through it. The trees have been removed. Got to run. More later. Don't blame Harry. How about new Law School and Library on South Campus. Could complete quadrangle bounded by Health Sciences Library, Diefendorf, Crosby / Architecture School. New library shared with Architecture. See you at UB20-20 workshop today.
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simcoe
O'Brian's ghost is said to wander through the halls, weeping that his name is attached to such a hideous building.
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mbhxam
Move it downtown...could this article have anything to do with the little blurb on buffalonews.com regarding a survey of law students of which 73 percent favor a law school downtown...it makes all the sense in the world!
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SLEEPL8
I took classes in O'Brien and studied in the Library. I never once thought the building was "hideous" or flawed. It is completely functional and has served its purpose for 30 years. If UB Law is outgrowing it now it is not the fault of the architect. It will provide quality classroom/study space for students once UB moves the Law School to a new down town facility which I believe will happen before 2020. I am sick of all the "brilliant heinsight" posted on this site. If you have a constructive vision for the future and can contribute something positive then you can be a part of improving Buffalo's future. Otherwise you are nothing more than a miserable Monday morning quarterback.
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gaustad
Great point Sleep -
Considering how popular the law is in Buffalo, and the number of lawyers/firms/courts downtown, why not have a state of the art law school in the city.
Not only will it attract high-calliber intellectuals to the core, but the retention of keeping these lawyers/professors downtown is much greater.
I have many friends that have gone to UB law, and can't wait to leave town after graduation. They live out on that depressing campus and hate it.
Get them internships and interacting with the Bufffalo court system and community...they will stay and be prosperous.
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gaustad
Great point Sleep -
Considering how popular the law is in Buffalo, and the number of lawyers/firms/courts downtown, why not have a state of the art law school in the city.
Not only will it attract high-calliber intellectuals to the core, but the retention of keeping these lawyers/professors downtown is much greater.
I have many friends that have gone to UB law, and can't wait to leave town after graduation. They live out on that depressing campus and hate it.
Get them internships and interacting with the Bufffalo court system and community...they will stay and be prosperous.
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RonR
Does anyone know what kind of money UB raises from Alumni? After all it cranks out thousands of graduates year after year. Other schools are gifted Millions for projects like this.
Sure it would be nice to have this downtown but does it mean the taxpayer should foot the whole bill? Did they poll the alumni of UB law to see if they want to fund a downtown law school?
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coolrobc
Gaustad-
Just curious if the law students that you know and can't wait to get out of Buffalo are WNY'ers or transplants?
Most of the Law Students I know are looking to stay in Buffalo, and they're all transplants (NJ, Syracuse, New England, etc.) The few I know of that really didn't like Buffalo transferred out after 1L, or got offers elsewhere.
However, they all hate that campus from what I've heard.
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BuffedOut
Is that unnamed magazine US News and World Report? What do buildings have to do with the quality of an education? Some of the most honored and prestigious schools operate in in some of the oldest buildings in the nation. As usual, focus is on the wrong thing.
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RisingDamp666
Cool building, even if it's dated. And UB really needs to decamp its Law school to Downtown. Then let the rest of that university slowly follow suit, over a fairly long period of time...say about 6-10 years.
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Einstein
Such a positive article about one of the greatest assets to Western New York. This sounds like a perpetuation of the Buffalo vs. Suburbs mentality. I honestly expect better of Buffalo Rising, I guess regionalism only applies when it benefits the City.
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carl
Taken by them selves, each building on north campus is ok. But the article is right, It is certainly the planning which is the problem. The campus was designed around the idea of the 'autopia'. Which we all agree now has become a nightmare.
But, be careful about disregarding the architecture of the 1970's. It is very much in vogue right now, largely because that is the first time that "sustainability" was actively used in design. Many of the ideas used in that period are coming back into the design discourse.
http://www.cca.qc.ca/pages/Niveau3.asp?page=1973&lang=eng
And i agree with the idea that the professional schools do not need to be on north campus, but closest to where the activity they are teaching is going on, ie the medical school near a hospital, architecture school in the city, law school near a court house, etc...
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jdfan
I'm not a native but I've lived here for 20 years. During that time, I've heard all the same BS passed off as "fact" about the Amherst Campus. You'd do well to cite sources that support your argument. I find it ironic that an article about an educational institution should be so lacking in intellectual and academic rigor.
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simcoe
Really? You geeks find that an appealing building? Got it, I'm starting to get an idea of the type of person that responds here... black knee high socks, sandals, and greasy coke bottle glasses.
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STEEL
jdfan,
Exactly which part of the story do you take exception to?
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Smitch83
BuffedOut, Did you ever attend an institution of higher learning? In addition to the education that you would receive, there are other attributes that attract students to a specific college or university. In order to attract the "best and brightest", you must not only offer a world class education, but a world class environment as well. No one wants to learn in an old, out of date building that lacks modern amenities. If two schools are of equal ranking and in the same type of climate, it makes it more difficult to recruit when your infrastructure is, for the lack of a better description, behind the times...let alone on a campus that is completely isolated. An attractive, sophisticated building with modern amenities in the heart of an urban center will attract more students, thus allowing the school to be more selective, which will ultimately boost it's ranking. It's as simple as that. The "honored and prestigious" schools that you mention have renovated and spent millions to keep these historically significant buildings in tact. You're comparing apples to oranges; O'Brian Hall is certainly not considered one of these historically significant structures.
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jdfan
The following. Your opinions strike me as repetitive of the oft-repeated saw that the "Amherst campus was designed to control students and prevent riots." I'd like to see some cites that support your claims. As they stand, they merely contribute to the hot air of baseless opinion.
"Time has revealed O'Brian Hall to be one of those flops."
"The trend was to use massively planned and controlled places like the Amherst Campus as the solution to social and urban problems. They wanted complete control but forgot about the people using these spaces. Places like Amherst (campus) were designed by men ... who stood around sprawling models while looking down from above at little trees and paths and tiny little dot-like people. They made decisions based not on how people live in and react to space, but on how it looked as a sculptural composition. Random planning rules such as 'all buildings shall be composed of brown brick' were imposed. The failures are well known and are commonly chastised."
"... even today many of the original 70's planning guidelines remain in place on campus. ... O'Brian Hall would seem a bit quaint today if it was not so oppressive from the outside."
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Rebecca
It wasn't a few notches, its was 23. We went from 77 to tied four ways for 100th place.
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reflip
Rebecca,
I'll be attending UB Law this fall. How on earth did UB drop 23 places? That's a tremendous fall. Did something specific happen to cause this?
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STEEL
We should remember that the ranking that is being talked about is by a magazine based on interviews. It is not an official ranking and is supposedly not a scientifically based study and ranking.
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reflip
STEEL,
That is a good point. I am aware of the pros and cons of US News' methodology and I don't place too much stock in them. Obviously, US News rankings did not factor into my ultimate decision of which school to attend.
Nevertheless, you can understand why I would be at least mildly concerned about this. It was very disturbing to see the schools I turned down stay in roughly the same positions they were in last year, while UB dropped into Tier 3 for all intents and purposes. Why such a precipitous drop? Even if it is largely based on opinions, why did opinions change so drastically? What was it that caused UB to drop 23 places while the rest of the list remained relatively steady?
I'm just curious to see if anyone out there has some insight.
As for the subject at hand, I fully support a downtown campus. I'd love to get involved with this issue while I'm at UB.
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wizardofza
Einstein, I think you're the only one here making this into a city vs. suburbs debate.
I doesn't matter where N. Campus (in it's current form) is located: Amherst, Buffalo, or a tropical island. The architecture would still be just as bleak and alienating.
Believe it or not, aesthetics and place do count.
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STEEL
Wiz you have got that right. If they had built this campus on the waterfront the affect would have been basically the same from a human environment standpoint. The benefit would have been to concentrate local resources instead of spreading them out.
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sbrof
"why did opinions change so drastically" who knows. maybe people don't like to drive on highways for miles, to idle in a parking for 15 minutes waiting for a spot to open just to go to class. Maybe students and the new generation are not as fearful of cities and those in the past. Maybe they care more about the character of the landscape they need to spend hours and years in then years past.
There could be a million reasons but from my interactions with students (some law, most not) north campus isn't considered a 'nice' place and most are just bidding time to leave. I am sure that 'fact' might play a role in student options of the academic schools on north.
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sbrof
parking 'lot'
...edit function please...
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Architorture
don't be so sure that a new law school would end up downtown... the new law school at PSU was actually moved to university park....which isn't exactly the epicenter of legal affairs in the state of pennsylvania... and yet the dickinson law school is generally highly regarded... it at least ranks higher than UB
the firm i work for was short listed for the project and i can say that they definitely were not looking for a building that would easily fit into an urban setting... it wanted to be a campus unto itself in a very horizontal setting...and that is exactly what they are getting from the polshek partnership...
so i would warn that the trend in law schools might not make an 'urban' building realistic... what you may end up with is a suburban building on an urban site...
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STEEL
JDFAN,
Here is the campus plan. You can see the little trees and the speck sized people. Notice the massive honeycomb of buildings toward the bottom of the model image. They were seriously planning on carrying out that crazy plan. 2 or three of those modules were actually built with plans to build 20 or so more of them. It makes great sculpture but imaging working in one of those center pods every day
If you want further proof of the type of planning that was in vogue in the 70's try to find a vintage book called "The New Downtowns. I reference it here http://www.buffalorising.com/story/undoing_urban_renewal and also herehttp://www.buffalorising.com/story/tearing_down_the_future. Both of these stories deal with urban design issues similar to planning concepts used at UB North. The book is filled with concepts for downtowns that were aimed at making them less chaotic and more controlled , and more predictable. It is not something I made up. We do the same thing today except now we try to make the buildings look old fashioned instead of like space ports.
AS for Obrian Hall. On what grounds do you defend this one. The entries are hidden in dark crevices. The building has no sense of hierarchy at the exterior. Even the interior entry offers no welcoming gesture. The majority of the building base is a brutish solid mass which pretty much says you are not welcome here. It offers no life to its surroundings. The surrounding landscape is equally uninspired and unfriendly. The monotonous dark brown skin is barely relieved by puny little windows. If there is anything you do not want in Buffalo in winter it is darkness of this type. You will not find this one on any lists of Harry Weese's great accomplishments. I can guaranty you of that. Sure it is my opinion and it is also the opinion of many many others.
Perhaps you can let us know what you find so pleasant about the Amherst Campus and OBrian Hall. I believe you will be in a very small minority of campus boosters
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BloCity
Steel, i respectively disagree with you on some cosmetic aspects of OBrian hall.
The interior in my opinion is very nice, the first floor lobby, lecture halls, and courtroom are in good shape and rather attractive. The library first and second floor area is beautiful, there are large works of art, beautiful tables and the elegant globe in the center. Also it is the quietest library of them all.
And you clearly have never been to SUNY Albany.
As a current UB student i can attest to how beautiful and full of life the campus can be when it is warm out. With leaves on the trees, flowers blooming, and winter long gone, the campus can actually be quite enjoyable and i'm sure all other SUNY schools are the same, even Brockport.
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GDC
When the New Court House is finished, how about creating space in the former Court Building for the Law School?
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InformedOne
Good point that the move should not be financed with public dollars, this type of action should be financed through alumni contributions. Let the personal injury alumni association go after some property owner or contractor for a multi-million dollar slip/fall settlement and then donate their 30% cut.
If public financing was to be involved we would need attorney's on-board to advance the Grant Disbursement, though I am sure we could find some benevolent alumni willing to sign off on some pro-bono lawyering.
Plus what would happen to all our lovely social gathering places if all the sudden a bunch of high-brow ,ego-maniac, stuffy law students were downtown all the time.
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SteveP
According to US News.com UB has a 400 million dollar endowment
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InTheBuffalo
I agree that Alumni should help out with donations, but why shouldn't a public university take public dollars in order to further its mission of providing the best possible education for its students?
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RisingDamp666
That's a great shot of the UB "master plan", STEEL. What an amazing, incoherent mess! I almost wish it were fully realized if only to awe people with the majesty of horrible planning paradigms gone berzerk!
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UrbanMatt2000
Everyone wants downtown to thrive. Everyone wishes UB wasn't where it is. But that doesn't mean that UB should move downtown. It seems like people here advocate the kitchen sink strategy (to steel a line from Obama). I don't think the solution is to throw a bunch of stuff and see what sticks. We need better planning, not quick reactions like this.
I don't think it's a given that the university would benefit. It's hard to imagine moving the law school into an undesirable (their view- not mine) city would improve its rank. And the whole concept of a university is collaboration between departments. I work in the medical school and we have been working on a project with the humanities. It's definitely been hampered by everyone not working in the same place.
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Genghis
Another law school article? I agree, O'Brian is kind of drab and dark, like most of the North Campus. I agree with those who want to put the law school downtown. Not only is that where all the courts are, but it's also where most of the crime is committed. Also, I hear they are building a parole office near some of those trendy downtown lofts, so the students can scout out potential clients more readily. They won't even have to use their cars, helping the environment. And if they wish to see these future clients in jail, well the suburbs refuse to accept their share of the criminal population, being the stuck up snobs they are. If they aren't in Attica or someplace, they are downtown. Of course they should put the law school downtown.
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RisingDamp666
...and then they should relocate Attica to Downtown. Buffalo wants it all!
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