Buffalo Rising Online

from one box to another.. but either way this will be nice to have as functional space again in NB. For too long that Ames \ Hills sat there empty. I do look forward to seeing what, if any changed they are going to put in the parking lot area.

hardly a lost opportunity. people in buffalo, tonawanda and kenmore are going to go to Kohl's on the boulevard regardeless ..........they might as well go to one in Buffalo where it will benefit the city. Plus this area is quickly becoming a major commercial area, i couldnt think of a better place for Kohl's.

This is definitely a good project for this plaza; the vacant buildings were terrible on the eye. FYI... I did the traffic study for this project about a year ago, I think they're just going to extend the left-turn lanes on Delaware Avenue.

A nice thing about retail in North Buffalo is the taxpayers aren't helping fund construction of store buildings and aren't funding incentives to retailers or developers -- unlike for the Bass Pro building construction if it happens with at least $30M of public funds for store construction as I recall, and probably unlike whatever other stores end up in Canal Side that will get some kind of public subsidy too.

North Buffalo is an area the market place of consumers makes sensible for retail so in response the private sector invests money to build stores and fills the demand. Near the waterfront it was politicians who decided they want retail, and taxpayers end up paying for store buildings, incentives, etc.

If Canal Side and Bass Pro never happen, it won't be any great loss. It's fine to just let retail go where it more naturally decides to be.

sony - American Axle is emptying equipment out of their closed Buffalo plant and selling the rest. They won't be reopening here. Here's a pic from the Buffalo News of them using a helicopter to move 9-ton transformers a few days ago.

NewBuffalo - Well the new economy in WNY and Upstate is shrinking auto industry jobs.

'... American axle closes ($30/hr jobs) Another Kohl's gets built ($10/hr jobs). Welcome to the Global Economy..... '

However, in many other U.S. states including Ohio and Indiana, the global auto industry is keeping and even growing manufacturing jobs.

"However, in many other U.S. states including Ohio and Indiana, the global auto industry is keeping and even growing manufacturing jobs."

what? i don't think so bro, youngstown ohio usa

Mybuffalo - Try Marysville, Ohio where Honda has several plants for auto and motorcycle manufacturing. Youngstown, Ohio was primarily a steel and oil town. The auto manufacturing in Youngstown, the Lordstown facility is doing reasonably well after being retooled three years ago to manufacture the Chevy Cobalt.

Wow, thats some nerve. If you ever came to my house to recommend an update i'd kick you out too. From what I see, Conley's has a classic storefront on arguably the nicest block of Hertel and that's not even mentioning the meticulous shape they keep the back of the building in. How typical, a window shopper making 'recommendations' bet you were the subject of a few jokes that day.

mybuffalo - Honda has four big auto plants in Ohio - two for assembly (E Liberty and Marysville as whynot said, 20 miles from Columbus, which makes Accords, Acura TLs, and light trucks), another for transmissions (Indian Lake), and another makes more Honda engines than any plant in the world (Anna).

Honda also in Ohio has a motorcycle plant (also in Marysville), a vehicle research center (Raymond), and just opened a plant next door to Ohio in Indiana to make the new Civic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda#United_States

The Foreign automakers are the only ones that will survive because they are al NON UNION!!! The old days of $50-70 per hour is OVER people! Get with the times cuz they are a changin!

How are the unions going to support their criminal behavior when they are minimized Maybe they can bring back the rat.

Maybe Marko will find them a job pushing a broom in Vegas for $45 an hour. Sam Gompers would be rolling in his grave at the site of unions today. Bye bye...

Toyota and Honda pay their workers very well. They are successful because of good management that recognizes what the market demands, that simple. It is too easy to blame unions when it is management that got greedy and led the auto industry into ruin.

Also- agree with Atwater, no subsidies for retail, no subsidies for business period. IDA's should be the first to go.

I wasn't going to get into this because this is a thread about Kohls... but ok. I have toured two of the Honda plants in Ohio and have worked at and toured two Delphi plants, one GM stamping plant, and a powertrain plant. The biggest difference between "japanese" and "american" manufacturers is the automation and assembly efficiency. The plants in Marysville are highly automated, the human interaction is minimal so the level of variance in processing is also minimal. This leads to the perception of higher quality that most people have when they think of Honda and Toyota. The GM and Delphi plants are still highly manual and very menial, quality checks are not part of the process, they are done via post production inspection. This leads to an increase in variance and a much lower perception of quality and dependability for the cars.

The union mentality or the decision to be a union shop are not the primary issue, except in cases where american manufacturers have been unable to update and automate processes due to the negative ramifications that doing so would have on the size of the workforce.

One thing to keep in mind, the workers have the right to decide whether or not to unionize their shop. The UAW has been trying to get their foot in the door at Toyota and Honda for years, but the workers of these plants are not interested in unionizing under the UAW rules and obligations. The same is true with Walmart, there are several unions that want to get in, but the employees continually vote it down. You can say that Honda, Walmart, Toyota, and other companies are using unfair practices, etc to keep the unions out, but at the end of the day, the workers have spoken their will and stated emphatically that they would rather work on their own than be part of the collective.

Other than being yet another big box store, I think people will like Kohl's. It will bring people in to the city and provide customers with better service and better quality goods.

1. Pundit had a post on his site a few months ago about how American automakers were looking at a months long process of retooling their plants to build smaller, more efficient cars. By contrast, a Japanese company had the ability to reconfigure their assembly line with the flip of a switch. That kind of foresight is a huge part of why the big 3 have been getting their asses handed to them. That lack of foresight has everything to do with the suits making big money, and not with the UAW members making $30 an hour.

2. Another big advantage that foreign companies have is that so many of their employee costs -- health care, pension, etc. -- are picked up by the government rather than the employer.

3. "You can say that Honda, Walmart, Toyota, and other companies are using unfair practices, etc to keep the unions out, but at the end of the day, the workers have spoken their will . . ." Isn't this kind of an odd statement? If the company uses unfair practices -- which are aimed at coercing workers -- how can you say that the resulting election represents the will of the employees?

Colin - To your 3 points,

1. UAW contract work rules are one factor making that flexibility more difficult and more expensive, so you're wrong to say so extremely that it's "everything to do with the suits" and nothing to do with the UAW. In the long run, the Detroit 3 and UAW through negotiation will have to find ways to become more flexible as you describe. It's to both sides' discredit that it hasn't happened all this time.

2. Those excuses sound weak because workers in global auto co plants in the U.S., such as Honda's in Ohio, don't have their home countries paying worker health care or pensions. They do require their U.S. workers to pay greater portions of health care than UAW contracts require, yet still the jobs are well paid all things considered.

3. Unfairness is subjective. It's good there's some non-union options for people who choose to work in that industry. Unfairness can also happen in favor of unionizing, such as if workers are pressured to unionize and if non-secret ballots are used.

From a WNY perspective NewBuffalo's comment that American Axle jobs leave while Kohl's jobs arrive is true, although it's an isolated way to look at unrelated events. Retail customer bases need other businesses to provide a good supply of better-than-retail jobs.

WNY's problem about the American Axle side of NewBuffalo's comparison isn't AA closing - that happens anywhere. The problem is even while states like Ohio and Indiana see at least some new manufacturing plants built and succeeding, this area doesn't. Some like to say U.S. manufacturing is dead, but it isn't.

GM Tonawanda modernized but also shrunk a lot, plants of Ford Hamburg and Dunlop Tire are both doing ok I guess - don't know. Lockport Delphi barely hangs on and might be next to end.

If Honda and other global auto co's add jobs in nearby states but won't even consider WNY or upstate, how many other co's in other industries make the same decision for similar reasons? (Not just manufacturing, but anything - auto industry was what NewBuffalo mentioned.) When growth starts some time after the recession, why would anyone think it won't keep lagging here? UB expansion and medical research will be good but that's Albany-driven govt spending. Tourism and arts and architecture and things like Canal Side won't make big impacts in job creation. The area will continue on about the same as now, probably with population shrinkage a long while. That's not the end of the world - still a good place to live in some ways - but it causes some occasional shrinking pains, makes it harder to deal with empty buildings, declining tax base, fewer retail stores than some people would like to see, fewer new bike museums, etc.

I can't wait for Kohls to open. Imagine being able to actually buy clothes in the city of buffalo! Should have happened 10 years ago. Now we just need a Best Buy or Circuit City to open up next to it...

Bottom Line...you dont see Honda, Nissan, Toyota or Hyundai at the Washington Bailout hearings do you??? Why is that...becvaue they are efficient producers of quality automobiles and they do it without the UAW in most cases. American product equals greedy Unions and a shitty product, Period

1. No, Honda autoworkers in Tennessee (or wherever) aren't getting Japanese govt benefits -- but the folks back at Honda hq are, and so were the average workers who were helping the company establish its reputation during the 60s, 70s and 80s. Part of the price of a big 3 car goes to pay for the healthcare for folks who retired years ago.

2. Unfairness is subjective, but illegality isn't. When people talk about "unfair practices," they're referring violations of labor law.

3. The fact that people link greed with unions amazes me. Let's say a unionized worker wants an extra $5 an hour to do his job. What does that increase equal in real life? It doesn't mean swimming around in a pile of gold like Scrooge McDuck. It means having enough money to have an extra kid, or to send your kid to her first choice college, or to put your parent in the "nice" retirement home. These aren't the hallmarks of greed.

Greedy unions? No assaroni it was incompetent management unwilling to change and meet consumer demand.

The problem with American cars is that they suck, the whole lot of them. Unreliable, undependable, might last 100,000 miles if your lucky, pieces of shit!

Toyota and Honda are quality automobiles at a good price. Buy American failed as a campaign because people realized that buying American meant paying more for lower quality. When American manufacturers will admit that they have gotten their asses kicked at their own game and change their strategy, then we might be competitive again. Until then, changing working conditions, automating assembly lines, or cutting worker's benefits won't do a damn bit of good for anyone.

And don't buy your leisure suits from WestHerr...