Buffalo Rising Online

As I wrote yesterday in response to Harvey's comments/platitudes, I find his proposal a simplistic and naive response to revitalizing Buffalo's public schools given their current state of affairs. As a parent of kids in the Buffalo Public School system, I'd be curious to find out what other similarly situated parents think of Harvey's proposal (particularly those who don't live in the Olmsted school district). I find that his comments demonstrate lack an understanding or appreciation of the dilemmas facing parents regarding their child's education and the traumatic effects on a child who is taken out of one school and put into another.

BuffaloRox, you're like the teenage boys on gaming boards who like to start havoc and hear the sound of their own voices. If you disagree with Harvey, hasn't he earned the benefit of common courtesy? You could politely ask him to clarify his position or justify it in light of the issues you pose. But who the hell are you to talk to Harvey like that? He's made real and significant contributions to the city. He's helped turn around troubled neighborhoods. From what I can gather, all you've managed to do is breed.

So BuffaloRox, in the parlance of the juvenile boards you're clearly used to trolling, STFU!!!!

What's with all the ad hominum attack? I'm pretty sure Harvey didn't mean to imply that all the problems of BPSs can be solved by community schools nor did he mean to suggest that all schools should become community schools.

In some cases, community schools just make a lot of sense. In Harvey's neck of the woods, there are a few such schools and trying to get them converted into community schools is at the top of his list.

Can't we all just get along? ;)

Seth - I have to agree with BuffaloRox on this and his previous comment. (And not just because we both happened the "breed" the same children.)

This is in no way an attempt to dilute some of the positive things that Harvey has done for his neighborhood and for Buffalo.

BRox and I are quite aware of the struggle parents must go through when A) deciding to raise their kids in the city and B) sending them to city schools. (The college decision and application process is a breeze compared to what we went through last year with our first child.)

In my opinion (based on experience as a parent in Buffalo's public school system) the "fastest way for us to take control of our kids education", something that every parent can do starting today is to become an educational advocate for their kids. This is necessary for all kids, in all types of schools, for their entire school career. (Too many times it seems that parents feel that once they hand their kid a lunchbox and stick him on the bus to kindergarten, their job is done. But their job is just beginning.)

And to demonstrate that I practice what I preach, here's a list of 10 simple things parents can do (and we do) to get started.

1. Meet your childrenis teacher(s) and principal.

2. Volunteer at your childis school.

3. Supervise and review your childrenis homework.

4. Know your childrenis classmates and their families.

5. Make everyday moments teachable opportunities.

6. Read to or with your children every day.

7. Don't overschedule extracurricular activities. Give kids time to play and just be kids.

8. Be a squeaky wheel: Express concerns to the school about performances of the faculty and/or your children.

9. Actual letter grades don't matter as much as making sure kids are always trying their best and learning from mistakes.

10. It is never too late to get involved in instilling a love and importance of learning.

I'd like to hear what other parents think.

Seth,

I offer a criticism of Harvey's proposal and you sink to a level that is even lower than that for which you attack me. While I'm some how rude for criticizing a proposal which I labeled as simplistic and naive, you not only show that you are a hypocrite by using profanity and personal attacks but also fail to address my criticism.

No matter how valuable Harvey's valuable contributions, he, just like you and I, are not beyond criticism. Harvey not only knows how to comment here but how to defend himself. He can feel free to respond or not. It's an interesting and important topic, but I'm not losing sleep over it. The dialogue will continue. What I am sure of, however, is that he doesn't need you to defend him.

While you've made me realize I'm guilty of not choosing the best words for or manner in which to frame my criticism, is Harvey's suggestion the "best" way to improve our school system? I think not. Can it be an another tool? If parents are given the powers similar to those proposed by Tony Blair for the BPS, I'd say yes. If not, charter schools already provide parents the ability to get involved and effect changes they feel are best for their children without being incumbered by an unwieldy and antiquated collective bargaining agreement that protects teachers not children.

Well - first of all, BufaloRox, no offense taken on any of your comments. I'm the first to admit that I don't know everything about educating kids. Not having any myself yet, I certainly can't claim to know what's best for yours. My comment was based on what I've learned about neighborhoods, not just living in them but what it's like for kids to grow up in them.

I advocate for community schools for many reasons:

1. Physical Health - I don't like to see our kids sitting on busses all day. The health effects of breathing in school bus diesel fumes has been disasterous. Many of our kids spend an hour or more on busses every day. Our Asthma numbers are at an all time high and much of it can be attributed to all the time our kids are sitting in start / stop busses.

2. Better spent funds - The direct economic cost of bussing is extremely high, and the money could be better spent elsewhere on actual education.

3. Parental involvement - I don't live in the Olmsted School area (I don't think). My closest schools are only a few blocks away on the West Side of Buffalo. I work with the schools (bringing in tutors from local colleges, promoting home ownership to parents, etc.). Over 60% of the students at school 38 are bussed in from other neighborhoods and is the primary reason given by the teachers for lack of parental involvement - most of the parents don't live anywhere near the schools. In my opinion parental involment is the number # 1 factor for sucess in educating kids.

4. Safer environment - According to many school officials most of the gang problems in my neighborhhod schools are caused by bussing in other kids from other areas of the city (it creates clashes between gangs that would not otherwise be rivals). Before someone takes this as a racial slur - let me remind you that my neigborhood is one of the most diverse in all of WNY - and I like it that way. I'm not advocating for keeping anyone out of my neighborhood - I'm advocating for keeping our kids close to home where our neigbors can get to know them and watch over them.

5. Stronger Community - Neigborhood schools provide a greater opportunity for neighbors to get to know "their" kids. Having other neighbors watching your kids, and knowing your neigborhood kids, reduces friction between neighbors and kids. Community schools welcome everyone from the neighborhood to use the school as a community asset. Most of my neighbors don't feel welcome in their neighborhood school, yet if asked, they would be more than willing to help.

I'm not naive as much as confident that we are in a better possition to deal with the Buffalo School System as parents who live around their school than disconnected parents spread around Buffalo. In response to an earlier point BuffaloRox made, I'm not looking to use the kids to solve our neighborhoods problems as much as using community to solve some of the problems around educating our kids.

All that said - I like the dialoge, I wish we had more of it. But the tone of the discourse is sometimes dissapointing. Lets continue the discussion in a way that our kids would be proud of. I'm open to being wrong on all of this, show me where, and lets find a solution we can all get behind.

Harvey

Harvey,

You're a class act. My apologies for the tone of my comments. It's something I've take others to task for and was guilty myself. My parental protective instincts went haywire. I agree with far more of what you say than don't.

BRox

BRox - no offense taken. You and your wife are working very hard to assure that your children get the best education possible. And I do appreciate Seth coming to my defense - I like how Buffalonians stick up for each other - but yes please let's keep the discourse productive. To that end I am interested in where you disagree with me. I'm still trying to figure all this out and I'm looking for input (from you as well as everyone else).

I'm in the process of working with school 38's parents to encourage more of them to buy houses around the school. The properties are cheep enough and all the statistics show that kids whose parent(s) own their own house do better in school and have better respect for their neighborhoods.

I'm focused on the 40% of the parents who already rent in the area as well as attracting the parents who currently live outside the area. I'd also like to encourage more of the neighbors who are sending their children elsewhere, to use school of choice, pick their community school, and start getting more involved in the neighborhood, the school, and their children's education.

Anyone who knows me understands that I don't just talk about things so you better stop me if you have any thoughts on how I can improve the plan. :)

Again, this is an example of how we can effect real change without waiting for someone else (school board, teacher's unions, NY State, etc. - pick your favorite enemy). Once we have greater involvement (real involvement) from the community surrounding our schools - I'm confident we'll haver a lot more influence towards all the other changes that need to be made.

I'm looking for feedback (stop me while there is still time :) ). Everyone - please let me know your thoughts.

Harvey

Harvey,

There are several challenges that parents would face in developing a neighborhood school. I don't know that your plan can be taken as a cookie cutter approach, which is unfortunate given all the hard work you and the parents/kids/teachers/administrators of school 38 will undoubtedly face. If nothing else, it should show parents/teacher/administrators that they can improve things if they are willing.

1. diversity - Although this might not be a problem with school 38, it certainly would be in other neighborhoods. I really think the diversity (racial, economic and geographic) helps my kids mature and learn as other viewpoints and experiences are injected in the classroom.

2. emotional attachment - Kids are pretty tough but thrive (IMO) when they have stability in their lives. They need routine. In your plan, you try to get the parents to move close to the school. This might be easier for the kids to adjust to than being taken out of their existing school and placing them in the school in their existing neighborhood (assuming that they are more attached to their school and schoolmates than their neighborhood). Again, I wonder how feasible this would be to duplicate in other neighborhoods. It seems likely to succeed only in areas with low cost and readily available housing stock.

3. education - IMO, improving a child's eduction will be the primary reason for any parents move their children to a new school (especially when the kids are younger and less vested in the existing school). I think the parents will really need to know that they can expect and achieve positive results (not just a sales pitch).

I'm not sure who you've been dealing with at school 38, but I'm skeptical about the ability of informed parents to effect change. I don't have first hand experience, but I've heard repeated complaints about parents being discouraged from volunteering and getting involved at a top performing elementary BPS. Even if the principal is interested, there is no guarantee that you'll get buy-in from the teachers. I think the BPS and BTF have too many problems to get a city wide improvement without fundamental changes to each.

In this context, I think charter schools have been very successful. First, they've provided an avenue for parents to keep their children in public school. Second, many outperform their peers. Last, competition with the charters (along with a hard control board) are forcing the BTF and the BPS administration to get their house in order.

Ultimately, if you're successful (and that's a big if but I wish you every success), I think it will be because you have highly motivated parents more than as a result of being a neighborhood school. I think that is the number one advantage of most charter schools. I'd be glad to share any other thoughts, strategize and hear how you are doing. QE and Figmo know how to reach me. At the same time, maybe I can get some ideas for revitalizing some nearby blocks of Main Street. Sorry for being so long winded.

BR

BR,

You are on target with many of the challenges. Getting the parents involved in the schools (at least in my neighborhoods) can be more difficult than opening up the schools to community involment (which is not easy). I like the tough projects that everyone thinks will never work. I try them regardless of the obsticles, without being blind to them. Most everything the WSCC has accomplished so far has been labeled as impossible - until we pulled it off.

This is going to be tough - but whatever pieces work, will be worth the effort it takes to get there. Education is a tough nut - we need to be working at it from all sides. We won't be 100% sucessful in every way, but we are going to make some major headway in some pretty critical areas and have a hell of a lot of fun showing everyone that it's not as impossible as they all thought. I like to think of challenges as hurdles that can be leapt over with some effort, rather than barriors that prevent access.

You are definitely right about it not being portable to every part of the city though - just as many things that will work at Olmsted would never work at school 38.

We'll report on the project as it goes along and we are looking for feedback and advice.

Thanks again for your input. I wish there were more folks involved in the dialogue on this one.

Harvey