Casino Opponents To File Papers This Week
Standing just a couple hundred yards from the temporary casino in downtown's Cobblestone district, citizens for a better Buffalo announced their intentions to file papers this week that will continue their lawsuit against the Seneca Nation and federal defendants, including the National Indian Gaming Commission and the Department of the Interior. The group of opponents are confident that their battle can be won on legal grounds, based on U.S. District Court Judge William M. Skretny's January 2007 decision to throw out the case and call to reanalyze the lands on which casinos may stand.
"The federal defendants have fought and scratched, on purely procedural grounds, from having a court of law address this issue," said Joseph Finnerty, an attorney representing the opponents. "But a broken record does not make a correct record, and we're filing the papers this week to have this addressed...To the gambling promoters who have started operations in their temporary, makeshift facility, we say: 'don't get comfortable.'"
The casino opened its doors last week, immediately after receiving a letter supporting their operation from Philip Hogan, chairman of the National Indian Gaming Commission. Hogan stated in his letter that the casino meets the requirements for gambling on off-reservation land, since the Senecas bought the parcel as part of the Seneca Nation Land Claims Settlement Act.
But former Rep. John LaFalce today called Hogan's reasoning "patently specious." He said the Settlement Act, which he co-wrote, applies only to leasing land, not to buying land for gambling purposes. Because the parcel at Michigan and Perry streets is not sovereign Indian land, opponents argue the Senecas cannot establish gambling there, no matter what.
"In our view, the way to wrap up this case is to wrap it up permanently," said Bruce Fisher, deputy executive for Erie County, a plaintiff in the suit. "We are striving toward permanent injunctive relief."
Fisher called the opening of the casino and the chairman of the NIGC's decision to support it "arbitrary, capricious and contrary to the law."
When the casino doors opened last week, Phil Pantano, the casino's director of communications, said the Senecas expected a return to court and would fight their opponents to the end. "We continue to have our sights set on the grand, permanent casino we intend to build," he said.
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ronnier
I find it strange that LaFalce , who Lives in Niagara County would voice his oppostion to the Casino in Buffalo, But not the one in Niagara Falls. Am I missing something here?
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FMOB
Why is it that the county government seems to take a new and different position on the casino everytime I hear something about it?
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Spaulding97
Argghh, what the hell? These people I don't get. They don't gamble and i'm pretty sure they don't hang out with anyone that gambles...sooooo no one close to them could be affected by gambling. Therefore it's none of their business. I don't gamble, but i'm for the casino. I know what you're saying: "But there will be more liquor stores and pawn shops" or " More crime and bums" C'mon, really? For those people that say that stuff, don't worry about it because you won't be around there anyway. It would be safer in that area after it opens. Take a look at the NF casino, you gonna tell me that it hasn't helped the city? Have you ever wandered around the city at night 8 years ago before the casino was there? Probably not.
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Sullymon54
I think the bums and other related down side to it is the minority of the problems. The main problem is that as of right now all it does is siphon money from an already economically depressed area to an untaxable entity, they might employ a couple hundred people with low paying jobs but using the example of Niagara Falls just proves that it won't help anything. Do you really see a lot of "spin off" development in the falls or do you see the continued degradation of the surrounding areas? Also, Buffalo is not a tourist destination and never will be, how about Niagara Falls focuses on being a tourist oriented place and continues to grow that way and allow Buffalo to be a residential and regional commerce center. Why do we need a casino here every 30 miles anyway?
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hamp
ronnier, what you are missing is that there has always been a decent amount of opposition to the Buffalo casino. This was not the case in Niagara Falls. LaFalce is helping out where he believes the sentiment is against the casino.
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stinker
Damn Casino management....... who do they think they are paying above average wages (36k), plus health Insurance plus 401 k plans. Soon everyone in Buffalo will expect these perks and we just can't have that. Must keep the peasants supressed and working at minimum wage or else I will never be able to finish that retiement home in Palm Beach.
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Keith
Stinker, the Senecas are the ones finishing that retirement home in Palm Beach. The local taxpayers support the schools, roads, prisons, public hospitals, courts, snow removal etc. etc. and the Senecas, though they benefit from all of it, support a tiny fraction of their fair share. This fraction will get even smaller as the problems start. Just wait as the problems start piling up and you get the bill.
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aka_mouse
Actually, having any other type of casino might siphon money out of the area.. these are the Senecas. They are local by definition - the original WNYers. I think most of the money is going to stay here one way or another. As opposed to say, Bass Pro, which in a lot of ways would take people's money and its profits are going to a company located down south somewhere while providing us only with low paying jobs. The money the Senecas make is going to get spent here, thats whats important.
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MisterChips
aka-mouse, the Senecas were a poor tribe until they got Malaysian backers to underwrite their casino ventures. You betcha the profits are leaving Buffalo. They're leaving the country, too.
--Buffalo News, March 2, 2003
Emphasis added.
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benfranklin
No matter your stand on the casino, the situation showcases our communities proclivity towards all things legislative. First, a governmental bueracracy that is so multilayered and twisted that, to a layman, seems to be taking itself to court. Many a law career must be launched by the dream of having these kind of clients. Secondly, the ever present lawsuit, or threat of it, that makes everyone have second thoughts about that 'big idea'. Either one group of lawyers will stop you before you start (the NIMBY crowd).... or, heaven forbid you show a profit, the billboard gang will be lining up at your door, complaining that your new widget has 'INJURED' their client. ("Clearly the thrill of winning at your casino caused the heart attack that killed my client, which was clearly forseeable by the Indians, therefore, you owe treble damages to my clients niece.") God have mercy on those of us who chose not to go to law school.
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frieda
read your own posting Mr Chips. It says NIAGARA FALLS Casino in 2003 , not Buffalo Creek in 2007. Now, with their AAA rating they can borrow money from any US Bank. Not that they need to. You Betcha.
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al-alo
whats this? is there some sort of controversy about the casino?
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stinker
I believe their Bond Rating is currently BB+, which makes them investment grade.
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aka_mouse
MisterChips: ok I didn't know that .. but still you can't expect the Senecas to have the cash upfront to start a project like this. Its pretty sad they had to look overseas to get the funding. 29% is predatory, but hey thats what lots of Americans are paying on thier debts. (Credit Cards) If they can pay it off quickly they can reduce the damage that does. Casinos being a big money business, they should be able to do that. At least something is getting built here.. we have to stop looking outside the region for help cause no one gives a shit, not Albany, not the US. If the Senecas are willing to do it Im all for it.
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MisterChips
How many bankers would write you a note if you already owed millions on a 29% adjustable rate? Oh, and those jobs that pay an average of 36K? Averages are the easiest way to lie with statistics. You have one manager who makes 60K and 3 workers who make 28K and presto, that averages out to 36K.
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frieda
Mr Chips, You seem suprised that their initial loan for Seneca Niagara was underwritten by a Malaysian Investment Bank. Are you suprised that most financial institutions are now giant multinationals. If you really are from Buffalo go dowtown. Do you see that big tall building crossign main street. It says HSBC which stands for Honk Kong Shanghai Banking Corp.
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GraphicRage
I'm sort of on the fence with this one, as it will add much needed jobs to Buffalo, but for those with gambling addictions or an addiction waiting to be bred, it's bad news. But while watching this on the 5 o'clock news last night, they need to get a better schtick. The quote from one gentleman for why he was against it? "It will take parking away from the Sabres and gambling is the root of all evil." haha OK, buddy.
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GraphicRage
Hong Kong Shanghai Banking Corp. is actually a British bank. Still foreign, but I thought I'd point that out.
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bc71
aka_mouse -- The Original WNYers? -- NO
The earliest known occupants of the Niagara Region of Western New York were the Neuter Indians, who occupied this area in the early 1600's. A peaceful nation, they lived in villages on both sides of the Niagara River and as far east as the territory of present day Orleans County. In 1651, however, nearly the entire Neuter population was exterminated by the Senecas who then claimed the Neuters’ lands as their own.
http://www.townofcambria.com/historian.htm
...exterminated by the Senecas !!
the Senecas are NOT the original WNYers
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frieda
That's true, it is chartered in London. because when the Bank was Chartered Hong Kong was a Crown Colony. it still maintains a significant presence in Honk Kong in what I believe is the second most expensive office building per sq ft in the world.
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BROKEEPSBLOCKINGME
I thiinnk this is absolutely hilarious. Ok, so if Buffalo doesnt have a casino, then the gamblers will just go to Seneca Niagara Casino or worse even The Fallsview or Casino Niagar. Gambling is a way of life people...GET OVER IT ALREADY!!! The crowds of people down there already proves theres a demand, so lets roll with the momentum instead of being the laughing stock of the world by blocking yet ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT!
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MisterChips
Shocked by international banking? Of course not. What I am shocked by if Buffalo naivete. Like, wishing for the best is all that's needed to get it. Like, our willingness to roll over for a powerful, corrupt, predatory industry. That giant sucking sound you hear is jobs, paychecks, pensions, rent money, and grocery money leaving Buffalo.
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NBJOHN
Pro Casino in Erie county.... I am happy someone finally did something in the town. Especially on that rat infested site. What were the anti-casino people going to put there? By the way, I gambled the other day at the Queen of Heaven carnival ... I did not see any signs there for the anti-casino groups/hypocrites. Good for the Senecas. Good for Buffalo
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MisterChips
NBJOHN, church bingo games are not predatory industries funded at 28 percent adjustable rate, with 24 hour access, free or underpriced food and liquor, exempt from the laws of New York State and the Federal Government. Try this thought experiment: if, say, Mexico could argue that it had a legal, historic right to land in Buffalo and it planned to open meth labs and brothels, would we be cheering for "economic development?"
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AtwaterLouse
Wow, some misleading stuff there.
"Untaxable" implies they're not paying money to the state. Not true. In 2010 and beyond 25% of slot machine revenue, by far the biggest category of money the casino will take in, goes right to the state govt who in turn may share some with local govts. Before 2010 it's a little less percent. So technically they don't pay taxes, which I agree is weird but whatever - but having to give 25% to NYS has the same effect even if it's not called a tax.
And "couple hundred people with low paying jobs". It's estimated to be 1000, including a good number of corporate office jobs (Buffalo will be HQ for all of Seneca Gaming Corp.) with average salaries/benefits above average of what Bufalonians make currently.
But in the big picture, it's really nobody's business except the employees what the salaries and benefits are.
The simple reality is that thousands of people in Buffalo are showing they want to voluntarily participate in casino gambling here in the city of Buffalo without travelling to NF or Canada or wherever. Those people should have the right to do so. I don't like the fact that it's not totally legal for anyone to open a casino anywhere they want (with reasonable zoning restrictions such as for strip clubs), but that hypothetically can be done in the future.
I do agree the economic development impact won't be much. Probably a very small amount and will be very hard to analyze with certainty. But it's irrelevant. The main issue should be personal liberty. Many temptations already surround people in our society, including some potentially addictive temptations. Outlawing them takes away the rights of responsible people.
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AtwaterLouse
AtwaterLouse
Opps, sorry - I goofed up a tag there. (BTW, has anyone ever suggested a preview page?)
Here's a clearer version of my above rant and its target:
What's with the Malaysia bashing? Is that supposed to be stir some kind of xenophobic anxieties? So what if the Senecas choose to do business with British or Polish or Latvian or Japanese or Malaysian people? What difference does that make?
Yeah a lot of the casino profits will leave Buffalo, just as a lot of profits from alcohol sales leaves Buffalo, profits from buying movie tickets leaves Buffalo, profits from cable TV subscriptions leaves Buffalo, profits from renting DVDs from Blockbuster and Netflix leaves Buffalo, and many other examples. It's called trade. Humans voluntarily exchange money in return for goods or services. One category of services is entertainment. One type of entertainment is casino gambling. Only in this one instance do I see people having a cow about entertainment profits leaving Buffalo.
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BROKEEPSBLOCKINGME
MISTERCHIPS...NO OFFENSE...but youre a real shmuck. The rates at which any business is loaned money has nothing to do with this conversation. Here's to Meth Labs and Hookers...our Hookers are even bad in Buffalo
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MisterChips
BRO, nothing like a little-name calling to demonstrate to the world that you're run out of arguments. No wonder BRO keeps blocking you.
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frieda
So, Mr Chps, you think your weak, and repetitive argument holds water.What argument ? you sound like a parrot. 29%, 29%, 29%. You fail to address any points anyone is making, Because you probably don't read any of them. If you wan't to get serious attention look at someone like Louise. That is how it is done.
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Spaulding97
Same old song and dance here in Buffalo. When is everyone gonna wake up and realize what's happening. Everyone always bitches about poor development in Buffalo and how it's dead. Well, here is something that would benefit the city. A destination to go to at all hours. And what are some people doing? Trying to stop it. Same goes for Bass pro, 33 Gates, etc. Dumb dumb dumb.
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doc
Let's try and keep focus here. I've become loathe to comment on the BRO site because of the predictable, degeneration of commentary to base name-calling and loss of focus on the matters-at-hand. But I am unable to resist a remark here. Casino's do not create gamblers they simply get the money of the gamblers who already exist. Buffalonians have been crossing the border to gamble for years or have been staying stateside and going to Catholic churches, for one, to lose their money at the Bingo games. Gamblers will always find a way to gamble with their money. Whether it be online, in a bingo hall, a race track with slots, a trip to Vegas (surprise! SouthWest has non-stop flights to LasVegas but not St. Louis, Indianapolis, Denver, Miami, Atlanta, etc.), a walk over the rainbow bridge or illegal sports betting. It wasn't until the INDIANS!! developed a scheme to get monies that the voice of the opposition was so loudly heard. The difference is they are getting land as well. I'm not sure what the issue is anymore because we're dealing with the same politicians who can't get a waterfront or a bridge built to save their lives. All I know is that since the Casino Niagara opened I am getting so many visits from friends in Rochester, Syracuse, Miami, Orlando, Tampa, that I can hardly deal with it. It's not just the Buffalo folks who want to spend their money in this manner. Think of it. You can get airfare to Vegas cheaper than it costs to spend 20 minutes at a dollar slot machine! People are in a fever pitch to give their money away and have been for years. I say build a casino and let them give it away here so Buffalo and Erie Co. can get some of it. I don't expect the land grant issue to be a problem since there is so much vacant land to be developed and most certainly will not be in my lifetime unless a casino is built. Buffalo is tough sell. Why do you think they have so many conventions in Atlantic City and Vegas? Sorry Mr. Snyder if the new casino plans for a hotel that might cut into your Hyatt profits. Had you kept the hotel up in a decent fashion and marketed it correctly you may not be in such a threatened position. Anyway that's how I see it.
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NBJOHN
Misterchips - I lost money at the church by gambling - Nothing is different. My money - I get to do whatever I want with it. I will be at the Casino tonight, and I will enjoy it and play within my limits. Good fo the Senecas - Finally someone has been able to get something done in this town
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stopthesprawl
Let's be realistic. One casino is not going to suck money dry from Buffalo. I mean have you lived here for the past 20 years? Agreed, a lot of that money probably will never touch Buffalonian hands, but with hundreds of millions of dollars being circulated downtown, some of it will bolster restraunts, hotels, and bars.
Friends, the real reason why the casino will be good is because it will bring people downtown. We have very few locations to attract out of towners to what is supposed to be our urban center, and this will bring some of them.
The final reason why I like the casino is because it extends downtown further south. It's too small as it is. Think about it, would you rather have Fulton Street stay a multi-acre empty lot forever?
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Matthewjohnp
Why is that elite group of white guys (your picture) pissing away local foundation money on this futile battle? Oh that's right, since our arts, cultural and civic organizations are doing so well now, they can afford to chase windmills.
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lanap
Matthewjohnp, it's so evident and you are so right. We got lots of needs here in Buffalo and these guys are really pissing away money that can help a bunch of other stuff.
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NBJOHN
Quote in today's Buffalo Busines first,,,,
"We look forward to a final judgment in our favor," said Dianne Bennett, Citizens for a Better Buffalo president. "This is the most crucial issue facing the city today."
If this is the most crucial issue them someone needs to her head out of her ass. We are taxed to death, very few job prospects, people leaving in waves, and the Casino is the most crucial issue? Someone has too much time on her hands.
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BROKEEPSBLOCKINGME
misterchips... your arguments hold zero water. and your rebuttals are as worthless as our politicians in this hellhole. so go ahead and support the continued lack of development and see where buffalo will be in 5, 10, 20 years...In the exact same spot as it is now...just with another 50,000 less people
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