Buffalo Rising Online

Mark down the day and the time.............This will NOT be built!

Bass Pro will not come to Buffalo without the Casino....our economy is too weak to support Bass Pro on its own.

You will see these kinds of renderings for years to come.....did get your exceptions too high, you are all in for a serious let down. Just being realistic.

Sincerely, if this town were smart, they would invest all of their money into a Championship hockey or football team....watching sports, eating and drinking is all people really want to do around here. A championship team will unite the locals and erase years of negativity.

First, it looks like the Canal will only be going to Main Street and not crossing Main Street to Washington as originally proposed.

I have absolutely no doubt that the Canals will be extended, excavated, rewatered etc. It is after all paid for by the Niagara Power Authority and NYS so its not really Buffalos money to lose.

Now the actual buildings might be delayed but I dont really see that as a problem because there is alot of infrastructure work that needs to go on with the canals and circulation, and cobblestone roads and lighting etc.

The easiest way to reconnect the cobblestone district to the wharf district is to rebuild the DL&W Passenger Concourse that was demolished which would extend the wharf district to Michigan, then at a later date...Great Lakes Cruise Ships can be attracted to the DL&W which would be perfect with light rail on 1st floor. Also, a light rail extension to the Airport would allow the NFTA maintenance sheds at the DL&W to relocate to the Central Terminal allowing the entire DL&W to be redeveloped.

The other priority should be getting those lift bridges to the outer harbor built at the same time as the canals.

Its alot more than building the 2nd waterfront condo tower or the Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino.

Getting all the infrastructure work completed will have a significant impact on the final design of the wharf district.

Will it get built! Yes! But the priority will be getting the infrastructure in place first, connecting it to the outer harbor, the cobblestone, downtown and the canal village with the townhomes and condos.

Im betting that there will be a proposal for a 3rd and possibly 4th residential tower as this wharf district infrastructure gets built.

Great article WCP. I drive by this area often and I must say it is in transition. For those of us who think progressively and realistically, it takes time for good planning to take shape and obviously be implemented. The casino would complement this development, but it is not critical for this to succeed. Form based codes would do this area well.

Remember there are bigger things all coming together for Buffalo like never before in history. 1) Canadian Dollar is at Parity and canadian are representing increasing shares of our economy. Buffalo would not have the retail it has or the airport it has without Canadians. 2) Canadians are finally looking at Buffalo Niagara for their US offices. 3) There is a confluence as international visitors are lured to Niagara Falls, NY and Buffalo. This will be a major international attraction! 4) Buffalo is not in recession like the rest of the nation...infact we are insulated to a significant degree because of our frugal past growth and our significant business with Canada. Infact, Buffalo is one of the safest US cities to plop down money on an investment. When was the last time you heard that!!!! 5) The announcement of a 5,000 sqft clean room for part of a larger expansion for research into nanotechnology is the 1st stage of Buffalos 2nd Center for Excellence! Remember, Buffalo Niagara has a huge and historic presence of companies involved in basic materials which could mean Buffalo will be to nanomaterials what it was to basic materials.

A 2nd Center of Excellence with the potential of locating off campus somewhere along a light rail corridor.

6) 6million visitors to the Buffalo Airport which could soon be connected to downtown via light rail feeding this whar district once the update to the NFTA consultants report is completed.

7) A banking industry that is not just stable but growing and expanding as its competing banks fail.

This is a big confluence of local factors...Buffalo hasnt really had in decades.

So yes, it will get done and Buffalo will continue to develop.

My opinion is that Bass Pro is tied to the Casino.

Even if it is not, it will still never be built. For whatever reason, Bass Pro has refused to pull the trigger in Buffalo, despite all the free money they have been offered. The timeline has dragged on for too long.

Phase two of this project is a dream, way beyond the organizational capabilities of the politicans here. . Sad but true. Don't be Duped into believing any of this.

Well Gaustad I will leave yuo naysayers with one parting thought about federal, state and Niagara Power funds...

Bass Pro may .... Bass Pro may go

But infrastructure projects like canals, light rail extensions, cobblestone streets, wharf district, lift bridges, etc.....these things are permanent and they will add value with or without Bass Pro.

It is very fortunate that the submprime mortage mess just about completely bypassed Buffalo, which ranks something like 95th out of 100 cities for percentage of foreclosures. Cities like Cleveland, Kansas City and Detroit are really taking a beating.

I don't see much of a downside for Buffalo. Most of the "deinudstrialization" has taken place. The city benefits from ridiculously cheap housing, proximity to Canada, easy commutes, and slightly rising real estate values when most other markets are tanking.

With several major projects falling off the pipeline [casino,statler,city tower], route 5 being rebuilt all wrong in hast, the peace bridge going into it's 3rd decade of debate and main street still half empty I will not hold my breath on this project. Yes, a few condo/office conversions have taken place, Labatts moved 12 people here and the tiny inner harbour looks great, but we need more to build this city up. I hope it happens as Buffalo has so much hidden potential to be a major player.

onestarmartin, I can see your voice of concern or weariness regarding the success of this project, or the future of Buffalo in general, but you have to focus on the assets and positive steps forward - no matter how small they may be. The Casino is temporarily stopped, there is no way that the Senecas are giving up without a fight. Statler has seen more action than in the past 20 years, it was just unfortunate timing for the property owner and his financial woes. City Tower was just a pie on the sky idea to begin with, although it would have been cool. That development could have also hurt other downtown office buildings, by simply pulling from their tenant base and causing other project delays on smaller more sustainable development projects. Our hidden potential is not going unnoticed, especially with the real estate meltdown, water crisis, inflation, natural disasters, etc. that continue to plague the rest of the country. Vgs, I agree with you completely, people need to start focusing on our greater region and stop acting like the only market this will serve is the immediate City of Buffalo proper.

onestarmartin, I can see your voice of concern or weariness regarding the success of this project, or the future of Buffalo in general, but you have to focus on the assets and positive steps forward - no matter how small they may be. The Casino is temporarily stopped, there is no way that the Senecas are giving up without a fight. Statler has seen more action than in the past 20 years, it was just unfortunate timing for the property owner and his financial woes. City Tower was just a pie on the sky idea to begin with, although it would have been cool. That development could have also hurt other downtown office buildings, by simply pulling from their tenant base and causing other project delays on smaller more sustainable development projects. Our hidden potential is not going unnoticed, especially with the real estate meltdown, water crisis, inflation, natural disasters, etc. that continue to plague the rest of the country. Vgs, I agree with you completely, people need to start focusing on our greater region and stop acting like the only market this will serve is the immediate City of Buffalo proper.

Didn't Benderson come out and say that ever penny of this project is in place during their last public meeting. That is why I see this moving forward before anything else. There isn't money to build a new PB there isn't money to remove the 190, there isn't money to restore every part of the Olmsted Parks (yet) but this does have money so I see it happening for that reason alone.

I do wonder when they are going to finally bring about some public vetting. I think they won us all over on the that preliminary plan but without participation they might be setting themselves up to fail. We shall see.

why is bass pro even on this plan? I am sure now if certain things dont work out first there will be no bass pro.. I am actually noticing the complete change in tone in the news about bass pro.. the subject is not brought up every week like it was before.. The other thing I am confused about is where is all the parking in this plan, lets say bass pro did get downtown and they tore up certain areas for the canal, would we have to park in the streets? My other opinion is that is a beautiful plan but it just does not seem feasible. (my opinion)

I think as a group we need to learn patience and how the building, planning, zoning, permitting process works in both our local municipalities, state and federal government. Nothing moves fast.

Maybe BRO should hold a little class about that topic. We see Tim Hortons and Walgreens pop up seemingly overnight. But talk to any good commercial real estate broker, developer or retailer and they will tell you a deal as simple as a 2,000 sq ft Tim Hortons will take a full year to get through the town or city. The Super Walmart in Amherst took over 2 years, and they haven't even broken ground yet. Getting through the town of amherst took 1 1/2 years fro that project and it was originally an Ames Department store.

What did the enviro abatement alone take for the aud. almost a full year. and the building still stands. how long did it take to get through zoning? planning? negotiating a lease? enviro impact? Ect, ect. ect. I wonder why big national developers shy away from anything in nys outside of nyc. our local and state governments are not user friendly.

I am eagerly awaiting the plans for "canalside". All we know today is that the ECHDC powers are still hitching the wagon to Bass Pro being the anchor and they have been trying for a couple of years to "lure" other "national" tenants to the site.

When this plan is unveiled(later this month or the following month or early next year), let's see how many signed contracts they have in hand from retail, restaurant, hotel owners or other developers.

I just hope that the check signers at the Wendt Foundation approve or we could be looking at more lawsuits!

PS I am sick of scaled models and computer animation of canalside. Architects and consultants get rich of proposed WNY projects and most of it never seems to get built.

I am eagerly awaiting plans to lower taxes and utility costs, stop government waste, create accountability in the government rank and file, and see real change brought to the Buffalo area. I am disheartened by the current round of political ads basically offering promises with no plan of action. No politician has the heart to stand up to government unions or to upset the inner city poor, so we will get the same old government with the same inactivity, for another decade or two.

The Bass Pro doesn't matter to Buffalo, it is a nice to have. It will be great if built by the waterfront, so will anything else that is there as long as it brings in people. The underlying issue with the city is not shopping, it is our government and tax structure.

I agree with allfit a little bit. Reform government. it's to expensive here. and we get to little for what we pay for.

We should keep an eye on how Kevin Gaughn will fair in the town of west seneca. He got enough signatures that the citizens will be able to vote on reform. a bit of small good news.

I agree with allfit a little bit. Reform government. it's to expensive here. and we get to little for what we pay for.

We should keep an eye on how Kevin Gaughn will fair in the town of west seneca. He got enough signatures that the citizens will be able to vote on reform. a bit of small good news.

Only in Buffalo does "affordable housing" get mentioned so many times in a positive light. We is there affordable housing? Because no one wants to live there! Of course housing values aren't dropping, how could they go lower? The recession hasn't hit Buffalo? there has been a recession there for the last 30+ years!! Buffalowiener is a real piece of work.

Sally, thanks for bringing your insight to the discussion. You are a genius.

HeatherS, good post, you should run for mayor, you are spot on.

For the record, I would love for this project to come to fruition....and maybe someday a miracle will happen. It is sorely needed. However, if you look at our track record with infrastructure build out,...lets be realistic.

It took almost ten years to build a very small boat slip in the Erie canal, over a sewer line!.....How on earth is Buffalo going to build multiple canals running through the city with shopping, retail, cobblestone, museums, etc etc??? Use your brain people!

Why would this project be any different? too many people on this site jump on the bandwagon whenever a project is announced and then it just fizzles away.....and no one ever asks why.

Furthermore, Bass Pro is a business, designed to be profitable. No matter how much you give them, the revenue generation is just not in Buffalo, especially without a 330million dollar casino being built down the street.....no foot traffic whatsoever. Econ 101.

Disagree with me all you want. Wait and see what happens...we will be having the same discussion next Sept. The question is, what can we do about it!? Nothing?

Buffalo wastes more taxpayer money on renderings,planning and computer generated simulations, than any other city.....and nothing is ever built! It makes me sick.

Buffweiner, although I appreciate your optimism, I highly doubt infrastructure plans will move forward without Bass Pro breaking ground first. We are currently at a stalemate and the public should be informed.

G

despite 10 years, the commercial slip did get built. And it looks great.

The pace in which some of these developments move isn't just a Buffalo problem. It's a NYS problem. Look at the mall they are trying to build on industrial land in Syracuse. I recall hearing about that project 5 years ago. And last time I checked Pyramid is no closer to building it.

Not saying our own government isn't part of the problem, they are. But it took 10 years to build the commercial slip, largely due to federal and state regulations.

Not to mention...how long do you think engineering surveys and drawings took??? I bet a couple years. What about the required enviro impact study the state mandates? I bet that took a couple years as well.

Gaustad, it just feels like you are being negative for negatives sake. Whats the point? Makes you feel good?

NYS needs to untie our hands. Albany sucks. Some of these state mandates are unfair and cost us to much money.

Guastad,

Would you care to explain what the big draw was for BassPro to open a store in Auburn NY? Was it their booming economy? Maybe it was the Woman's Rights museum in Seneca Falls? (a half hour drive away)

The delays in the BassPro store have more to do with the changes in the site than it does with any regional economic factors.

newbuffalo-see that's the problem, most people here are not even close to being somewhat intelligent.

NewBuffalo- I gotta agree, Never had a problem finding work. Buffalo is a great place to live and we are able to maintain a lifestyle few can afford anywhere else. I live 5 minutes from work in a beautiful old home with easy access to stores, restaurants, parks ,etc.. The whiners will never be happy, they don't see a good thing even when it is staring them in the face.

Maybe some people want more oppurtunity than working at Mighty Taco blackrocklifter.

georged- I started out in the trades and became an engineer, it can be done.

Sanitation Engineer?

They have already spent 10 million on asbestos removal and begun taking down the aud. What more do you want? Do you want daily updates on the progress: Day 21: took down 4 panels today, day 22: took down 3 panels, got lunch at salsaritas, came back and removed 2 more panels from the aud exterior, day 23: removed some asbestos. Point is, when there is something to report it will be reported. Those buildings are coming down and bass pro is going in. Perhaps its been takin longer than ususal but the mere fact i dont hear daily updates about its progress doenst mean its not going to happen. I havent heard much about the new federal building other than that new building they bought, should i assume that project is dead too? If a person has been a failure thus far in their life is it correct to assume they can never amout to anything? Why is it any different to assume the same about buffalo then?

haha i can see it now...WELCOME TO LABATT'S BUFFALO!...OR NEW ERA CITY

I hope the I-190 ramp that lands in front of the BassPro store in the rendering is gone when the draft plan comes out.

Scooter (nit w!t) - we have been waiting 5 years for Bass Pro - if and when they break ground- it will be 7 years - how do you justify 7+ yrs?

coolrobc - cool name - maybe Bass Pro opened a store in Auburn NY becuase they didn't have to go through all the same bull sh!t in our backward city, i.e corrupt politics, Erie Canal sewage lines, preserving the entrance to the Aud. etc, etc

Buffalo can control tearing down the Aud and building the infrastructure, but they can not control Bass Pro's responsibility to their shareholders. Bass Pro is running a business and will not build here without neighboring businesses (Casino) and foot traffic. Bass Pro cares about Bass Pro, not Buffalo's waterfront development.

I guess you will just have to wait and see.

Gaustad,

See that's just the thing. BassPro is the anchor tenant. They will build if they are the only thing around. They do it all the time. It's one of those unique businesses that has the ability to draw people in all on it's own. Similar to the Islamorada location, this has the opportunity to be one of their more unique waterfront stores.

Also, BassPro is privately owned, there may be a few minority shareholders, but I'm pretty sure John Morris is still the majority owner. I guess we'll just have to take him at his word that he's excited about the location.

there should be skating on enclosed canals down there like in Montreal... http://www.hickerphoto.com/ice-skating-in-old-montreal-6462-pictures.htm

this is pretty awesome and would drive huge traffic down there in winter months especially at night. I was there as a kid and we skated the canals in montreal for miles and miles. It was amazing

coolrobc, Bass Pro has Private Equity money in tjheir firm, so they have several large shareholders other than the owner