Buffalo Rising Online

i guess we can all envy their swift timeline

Don't think this will ever happen in Buffalo - its not worth even talking about- a tease.

Too much planning in this town and on this website for projects that never come to fruition. It gets everyone hopes up and make people believe that Buffalo is actually heading in the right direction, when it is not!

Buffalo will be a dead dead dead downtown for many years to come, especially now that the Casino is no longer.

Call me negative, its reality, and the sooner people realize that the sooner we can make the appropriate changes.

Buffalo is realistically 30 years away from making any kind of significant changes.

Stamp it to your forehead and do anything possible to speed up progress.

To compare these two doesn’t make much sense to me...the population size/density of KC is not similar to Buffalo...oh yeah and unfortunately our fair city will most likely not be attracting any world headquarters to re-locate into the new space. What confuses me about this Canal Side (great name BTW) development is when all of the numbers are being thrown around for residential, commercial and whatever else...what exactly does that mean? Is it an “if you build it, they will come” type proposal? Or, as I suspect, will they need commitments from businesses, restaurants, and people wanting to live there before they start building?

mbhxm - Actually Buffalo is almost 5x as dense as KC. Buffalo has a density (city only) that is 7,217 people/sq mile, while KC only has 1,406 people/sq mile. Which also means that Buffalo has a greater density than Oakland, Seattle, Minneapolis, Detroit or Cleveland. So if you are trying to say that something like this cant be done in Buffalo because KC has more density, you are wrong.

Also important to note, is that metro KC has more people (by 700,000) but has an area that is far greater than Buffalo-Niagara.

I think that Canal Side will be highly visible from the 190 once the Aud and Donovan are demolished. While Buffalo may be smaller in population, KC still faces the same problems that we do as well, and they have pulled it off. In order to really grasp the potential of the success of Canal Side you cannot forget to include Canadians who account for a huge portion of our economy. This is a great model to follow..lets see the plans already for what the latest desgins call for!

The power and light district is nowhere near water. I was in the area recently and it was a real sweat box on a summer day. Canalside has a built in advantage of being on the water and think that is another reason that it will be a sucess, people are drawn the water, play off our greatest asset.

Buffalo's bi national metro is1.6M to KC's1.8M. The Buff bi-national metro covers less area than KC. It also has the potential to draw on a massive urban population less than 1 hour away. KC is lacking this advantage.

Those who say this or that can't be done in Buffalo are absolutely correct if you fall for that kind of reasoning as a basis for your actions. That has been the problem in Buffalo for the last 40 years. If the powers that be believe that nothing can be done in Buffalo then nothing WILL be done in Buffalo. There is an entrenched mentality in WNY that believes that WNY does not deserve anything more than what IS - good or bad_ and has great suspicion in any effort at improvement.

I point you to the Larkin warehouse as a perfect example of intelligent people making big money on a project that many said "Can' be Done in Buffalo" and yet it was. Funny how that works.

Meant to say less than 2 hours away.

WCP...Nice write up. I know you stated that you were going to do a series of these and look forward to the rest.

Gaustad...Who said the casino was dead. I can be very pessimistic at times about the lack of progress in downtown, but you take 1st prize by a mile.

I just googled KC, MO and it seems that the population of the city is abuot 445,000 compared to Buffalo's of 275,000...as for the "greater metropolitan area" KC - about 2 million...Buffalo - about 1.2 million.

Regardless...I hope for this development to thrive...i just don't see how, nor have i ever seen an explanation about how they are going to fill it up. Is there one, or is it as i said above..."if you build it they will come"???

mbhxam...the "latest" master plan for canalside is due to be unveiled sometime later this month(or so they say).

I work on a few projects with Benderson. mbxam...it's a bit of both. They certainly will have a couple deals in hand when they start construction on the Bass Pro. Most likely a restraunt and a hotel. The rest might be build as they come (build to suit), but a project this size (and KC) will be built in phases anyway so i dont see that as an issue.

Bass Pro will be built...tenants will hop on board. Slow progress is still progress. This development will rival KC's. We have alot more going for us then them. Water, canada, casino (that will happen).

stay positive.

Sally...great HSBC is here but if we are building all that office space, i am only wondering who is going to fill it?

Steel...the power of positive thought...if only Richard Simmons could move to Buffalo...

mbhxam

The area of Buffalo (city) is 52 sm The area of KC (city) is 318 sm . That is 6 times the area of Buffalo. 6 times Buffalo's population is 1,755,888. So you see even in its declined situation Buffalo is far more dense than KC. If KC was transported to Buffalo it would cover Buffalo, Lackawanna, Cheektowaga, West Seneca, Kenmore, most of Tonawanda and a few more towns in between.

KC does have a healthy economy however.

Class A office space in downtown buffalo is in short supply. Liberty, Rand, Statler and Brisbane is all old and tired office space. Class A office space in Amherst doesn't stay vacant.

Unfortunetly we'd just be shuffling some tenants around. But Class A downtown office space will lease quickly. Maybe the upside is suburban tenants coming back downtown and maybe we can free up a building like the Rand or Liberty for some condo conversions.

Steel, Thanks for casting some excellent perspective on Buffalo's metro population, which, for practical purposes, should include the Canadian border residents. Buffalo's city limits were drawn prematurely and arbitrarily long ago, and by NY state law they have been stuck there. But in practical terms, the city's functional population count should include Kenmore, Lackawanna and parts of Amherst; they are contiguous and their business/residential areas really bleed into eachother. With the cross pollination from Canada, the city of Buffalo's actual functioning population is well over 300,000 and its metro population 1.5 million or more.

I think there's a market for 15-30,000 sq.ft. of Benderson office space at the foot of Main Street. Sally is right- the office space is there- those workers are just looking for someplace to spend their checks.

mbhxam,

It is not the power of positive thought that makes a difference.

It is the power of not losing before you get in the game

Too bad that Buffalo won't have a world headquarted company to fill office space with. That seems to be the biggest issue always ignored by people on this site-where's the businesses to fill downtown with??

"Build it and they will come" may have worked in Field of Dreams, but don't count on it in Buffalo.

Buffalo will not get those world headquarters unless:

A) it is a buffalo based company that grows at a google like rate...

B) buffalo stops spending so much on unions and patronage...and fixes its infrastructure. If you cant have the lowest taxes and the least buracracy to entice them then your only other alternative is knowledge and infrastructure.

In the knowledge category buffalo actually does quite well. Yes it has alot of educational gaps because there is alot of duplicity and un-necessary competition in degree programs where local colleges could diversity into those knowledge gaps. On the whole the reason why Buffalo has so many skills gaps is because we dont have the jobs to keep them.

So that leaves infrastructure! No company wants their headquarters surrounded by un-maintained buildings! They want their surroundings to present the same image as their company: healthy, growing, dynamic.

That means fellow Buffalonians that until we find away to fix up and population (rather than demolish) our downtown and extend our light rail and make our city as dynamic as hertel, elmwood, maple, walden, niagara falls boulevard, etc then downtown isnt going to attract that headquarters.

We could get them but not if we spend all our money on unions and patronage while we have patronage and decay.

and one thing is for darn sure...

Buffalo's wharf district will be period...and traditional. Its part of restoring old Buffalo.

The modernism of new buffalo is going to be on the eastside and southside.

First off people you are all in lala land. Dont count on UB moving into downtown Buffalo and having all kinds of students. If you forgot already New York State has a budget problem. So all that money they promised will go out the windowe in a year or two at the most. Second dont count on Brass Pro coming either. Why do you think they havent signed on yet after all the tax payers money we was going to give them along with the big tax breaks, its because they are second quessing coming to Buffalo now. Yes i am going to bring this up again because some of you people dont understand anything, but with the casino in limbo and not knowing if its going to happen now, has a major effect on if they sign or not. Like i been telling you people before casinos bring people and no i am not talking about people from Buffalo, i am talking from other states and yes Canada. Third as long as Benderson is in charge of the design, I have no faith it will be any good because all he cares about is himself, and how can he make the most money for himself and not what is best for Buffalo and will work good for Buffalo. He reminds me alot if you see what he does in the area of another Synder guy and we know the story with him and the Hyhat. Why do you think that company that help built up KC bailed out with benderson??? They couldnt take the greed and whats best for me apporch. As far as if Big 500 companys will come to the area or not, yes they will come if everything in Buffalo doesnt have to go to court in order to get done,or people dont have to be paid off, or if you dont have idiots like the better people for Buffalo that still dont have any plans for buffalo justlike to stop everything. Buffalo is in the prime location for Big Business with the brige to Canada and the Water, but they read the news on this site and see things in the business world and how screwed up things are her so they dont bother to come. Buffalo has a big chance like it has never had before in centerys to become a major tourist attraction as long as people stop being idiots and let things happen. I am only going to say this once more. People are not going to come to Buffalo for a waterfront or Brass Pro, but they will come to Buffalo for a casino first and then visit everything else while they are here. If you think i am crazy ask Las Vegas, ask Atlantic City, thers nothing to see ther except casinos, and ask Pittsburgh because they are going to be getting a casino soon also along with a Brass Pro go figure!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sorry to rain on the parade but Kansas City is booming. They have a very pro-business government and are creating jobs in a big way. Unfort, Buffalo does not have this type of govt system in place. Sad but true

Heather for mayor. If she can get Paladino to fund her TV commercials, she might get as much as the 27% of the vote as did Republican candidate Kevin Helfer in 2005.

Seriously, while Heather makes great sense as she usually does, the viewpoints of by far most voters is deeply entrenched in Buffalo - victimized, anti-business, anti-rich, anti-suburb, militantly pro-union, all that. People elected as mayor and common council reflect the same general viewpoints. How could they not? Voters choose the winning candidates and dominant political party. Same with statewide voter majorities and both houses of the state legislature. Not a healthy environment for good economic growth or even for cost-effective government services.

EricOak, cheer Heather up by reminding her how unique Buffalo is for culture, architecture, and parks. She sounds a little down.

15-30k ft of office space is not a lot of office space. That is about 5-6x the size of a house in Spaulding Lake...

I think what WCP is trying to do here is not to compare KC and Buffalo per se but to just give some insight on what is going on in other cities and what Canalside might feel like. Canalside is going to get built. It will probably be smaller in scale than this and happen in phases but this isn't pie in the sky; it is going to happen.

gaustad. what exactly is the point of culture?

impressingagent - I don't understand your question - please clarify

HeatherSmiles - thank you for defining "Blue Collar Buffalo" better than anyone. Your words need to be substituted in the Webster Dictionary.

Balth - your bio says you moved from North Tonawanda to Buffalo after graduating college from UB in 2003. Boy you are really a world traveler. Whatever you do, don't challenge yourself. We should all listen to you because you made the giant leap from NT to the city of Buffalo. You must be one of those guys that wears a gold wig and carries around a tin foil stanley cup all Sabres season.

Balth, try to learn a little something from your elders. I have been around enough to recognize bullsh!t when I see it. I don't like wasting my time or others peoples time, but the politicians in Buffalo have no problem wasting your life.

Let me spell this out for you......it took us 10 yrs to build a miniscule boat slip which we now call the Erie Canal. I sincerely doubt that Buffalo is going to have canals running through downtown anytime soon.As a matter of fact I will guarantee it.

Furthermore, Bass Pro will not build here because they know how backward we are. The Casino project is DEAD! The Wendt foundation has plenty of money and clout. Congrats, they stopped the Senecas dead in their tracks. Read between the lines.

The benefit of "spreading my crap" as you say is to educate naive apprentices such as yourself. The sooner people like you stop buying into to all this pie in the sky development crap, the sooner we can start changing the processes here to our benefit.

You people are already talking about a "global anchor tenant" !!!??? - are you insane. This is light years away...!

Reality will get you to the next level. Naivety and hope will keep you complacent.

G

Vikings63 - you are a genius! Keep up the good work.

Gaustad, how are you going to gaurantee it? When ground is broken on the project how do you like your crow served up?

I think a healthy dose of scepticism is good but you are over the top. You really just do this to fire people up don't you?

Gaustad

I guess since the casino has been temporarily stopped Buffalo should just fold up and go away because lord knows Buffalo's entire being is based on the casino.

As WCP notes this project is almost exclusively a drinking, dining and entertainment complex. While I don't think that is necessarily what Benderson is planning, I also don't think that they are necessarily planning some ultra-luxury retail complex either.

Country Club Plaza has nothing to fear from KC Power and Light.

RonR - Steel often misses the point, thank your for clarifying, without the Casino, Bass Pro will not build and the rest of the project will be stalled.

Textpat10 - My crow is going to be flying circles around Canal Side, alive and well in a couple years because nothing is going to happen.

My posts are not for shock value....but are meant to be blunt so people around here will wake up. it is not a matter of pessimism or optimism, but reality.

Point being, projects die all the time. Regroup and move on. Buffalo hangs on the same ideas for years on end waiting for things to happen and wasting valuable time.