Buffalo Rising Online

"The Gallery District"

"Mid-Town Buffalo"

"West Elmwood Village"

"Entertainment District"

"Theater District"

How and when did Buffalo get all these districts? This is sweet!

Just a thought.....

I'm not a fan of the long rectangular buses and trains used by the NFTA, they are boring. Why don't we add a bit of history and flavor and have some old school trolleys?

Maybe all metro buses in the CBD or Elmwood/Allen could all be replica's of a more antique bus, trolley???

Help emphasize the fact that Buffalo has a tremendous amount of history.

why not just reactivate the beltway and run a trolly from the elmwood station to McKinley circle and back.

Now more than ever Buffalo State needs to be connected to UB and Canisius, that need will only be greater in the future.

why not just reactivate the beltway and run a trolly from the elmwood station to McKinley circle and back.

Now more than ever Buffalo State needs to be connected to UB and Canisius, that need will only be greater in the future.

Scooter,

I also do not like the current look of the NFTA's bus fleet (40 foot Gillig buses). However, the commercial trolleys, that you sometimes see being used in Niagara Falls and to transport Medaille Students from the Zoo parking lots are awful to ride on. They generally have uncomfortable seats, and there are issues with wheelchair accessibility.

They could use them as a short-term free ride bus though on Elmwood. Maybe a trolley that runs only from McKinley High School to Allen and back throughout the day?

whatever works for elmwood, as far as a trolly is concerned, I would strongly suggest Hertel jump on the bandwagon with something similar.

But in case no one sees the bigger picture....growth on hertel and growth on elmwood and growth on Main are really painting a strong picture that this section of the beltway connecting Buffalo State would bring great benefits to Elmwood and Hertel which are only a few blocks away.

It would be very easy to run buses or trolleys off the Amherst Street Stations.

Elmwood had a lot of issues with the old shuttle that used to frequent the street. During the colder months it became very much just a warm place to sit all day for those who had no place else to go, as a result, very few people utilized it to travel the commercial district. Not that everyone shouldn't have a warm place to go, but eventually, the bus did not serve its intended purpose.

If a program was reinstated, it would likely need some sort of a fee or pass associated with it. What if we just concentrated on getting the NFTA to really step up its Elmwood Avenue service. Elmwood could serve as the test grounds for some of the new technology that is available for public transit. Genoa, Italy has an incredible system...All of the major stops have LED boards marking each bus that serves that station, where the bus currently is, where it is headed and a countdown timer to the "real time" that the bus will arrive. I think the biggest issue with the general public refusing to ride buses has more to do with a lack of knowledge and information about how to ride than it does with some sort of a sigma attached to riding buses. There are a lot of options out there for making a much better public transit system that doesn't involve the extreme costs of light rail. Elmwood is the perfect place to start implementing some.

I was recently in Chicago, and they have a very convenient and easy to use trolley system. Basically there are various pickup points around the city, it runs certain hours, and its free. We used it to get a number of places and it was great. Between that and walking, we hardly needed to use a cab at all, not like they have those in buffalo either. Imagine trying to hail a cab from chippewa or allentown, ya know, as opposed to getting into your car when your 3 sheets to the wind. You would prob. sober up before you could get a cab.

buffaloweiner> why not just reactivate the beltway and run a trolly from the elmwood station to McKinley circle and back.

It's been a very busy freight line for the past 100 years. Federal law prohibits the operation of light passenger equipment (light and heavy rail trains, rail diesel cars not built to very stringent and expensive crashworthiness specifications, etc) and freight trains on the same track.

Even if it was allowed, implementation would be impossible. Mixing the two types of traffic -- urban light rail and heavy freight -- would be like mixing golf carts and eighteen-wheelers on an expressway. ADA requirements for accommodation would make floor-level platforms a must on such a line (can't wait to get a wheelchair loaded in an elevator if there's a mile-long freight bearing down on the trolley, after all). Freight cars have a loading gauge of about 10'-6"; light rail vehicles are about 7' to 9' wide, so you can see the problems that would happen if platforms were in place.

I think that the trolley system would be an awesome idea and I am sure that they could make them handicap accessible for wheelchairs and such. I think they would definitely help if they ran between the colleges and the different districts of the city since cabs are a fortune and take forever to catch. They also look much more appealing than the current metro "Bread Box" busses currently running the city.

BuffWeiner - that would make too sense for Buffalo to run a trolley up and down Elmwood.

Don't forget you need people to ride the trolley.

They do make hybrid/electric trolleys for those of us who care about that kind of thing. http://www.ebus.com/ebus.htm

I say go for it!

"Why don't we add a bit of history and flavor and have some old school trolleys?"

Scooter, history isn't "added" like bouillion cubes. History is made with bold, correct, transformative ideas and actions not made by throwing around such hackneyed proposals like trollies for the sake of quaint.

buffaloweiner again> Now more than ever Buffalo State needs to be connected to UB and Canisius, that need will only be greater in the future.

I don't think you quite get it. For a rail system to be useful, it needs to connect areas where traffic originators to those final destinations. You always post about connecting destinations -- "Hey, let's connect Central Terminal to the Airport to Buff State to UB to the Galleria to Canisius to Ralph Wilson Stadium". In reality, there really isn't much traffic between those different destinations to justify rail service. How often do people travel between UB and the airport, or Buff State and Central Terminal? Even for the relatively few such trips that do happen, the passengers still need to get to those destinations from their homes. That's why the vast majority of light rail, heavy rail and commuter rail lines in the world connect residential areas to centers of employment.

I agree with TownLine on this one. Elmwood is already of the most frequent bus routes in the city with buses running about every 4-6 minutes (Example 7 - 8:30am) at peak hours and rarely longer than 20 minutes during the whole day. It also runs later than most other routes with its last bus leaving downtown 1:30 am to the city line. What we need to focus more on is amenities and knowledge.

All the metro buses already have GPS receivers on them so real time statistics about arrival time at stops is well within reason. The whole route would change overnight with that kind of knowledge. Elmwood is the perfect route to bring in some real testable changes to improve the public transit we already have instead of adding another layer of costs or confusion.

What about a system were instead of investing into a new system businesses or organizations can invest into the NFTA with some sort of transparency that would allow you to buy extra trips on routes that serve you. I know the NFTA isn't the most admirable authority around here but if it was done in a way where you can see where the money goes, and get the services you want maybe it could be done cheaper since they already have a system in place and people to do it.

how many more trips would 100 or a 1,000 investment bring for a route like Elmwood? I don't really know but there might be a way to open the NFTA up in such a way as to augment parts of it from the community. In the end any improvements to one part of the system would benefit everyone who uses the system so I can't image why the NFTA wouldn't go for it.

Dan there are no factories on the Beltway anymore and it was originally built for passenger service not freight.

If the NFTA can do a study on the UB and Airport and Niagara Falls Corridors then they can do a study on the Beltway.

There are no factories or possible uses for freight on the Beltway anymore except to use it as a cut through to Niagara Falls but looking at a satellite map it is also a cut through for the International Railroad Bridge to canada.

However the right of ways for the NYC line just above the belway line are still there. Freight could be redirected to that line to reactivate the beltway for passenger use.

Hey Im not saying there arent issues. I am saying that in our sad economy here UB, Buffalo State and Canisius are bigger growth engines than American Axle (closed) and Bristol Myers (closed).

There is no dispute that Buffalo is an infrastructure starved city. However we must differentiate from the needs of the people and the needs of the pass thru freight that do not pay taxes and does not add value to our local economy. Now if there were jobs and factories dependent on it then I would give priority to the jobs and businesses. However, balancing the scales I think there is a greater likelihiid of job creation we are seeing along Main Street happening along the Beltway if reactivated.

Infact, Buffalo would benefit from the easy access of international visitors to Niagara Falls patronizing Buffalo. Those numbers are increasing significantly every year. Plus if Great Lakes Cruise ships ever dock in Buffalo at our canal wharf (DL&W has capability) the Buffalo is the only entrance point. Pass up that opportunity and ships will dock in Canada or Rochester to visit Niagara Falls.

Infact, I think there is a greater liklihood of jobs being created by connecting the airport to downtown along that corridor.

Infact, I dont see the South Campus really finding its purpose until its connected to the Amherst Campus via Light Rail. The two major and distinct campus's will be amherst and downtown. South Campus needs to connect to Amherst.

Buffalo State is increasing its partnerships with UB in Material Sciences...I predict those partnerships are going to increase (if Howard is smart enough to let them) and that means for Buffalo STate to achieve its potential then it must be connected to UB.

Integrating Buffalo State and UB could create....4-5 integrated state campus's in Buffalo. The potential for that kind of synergy is significant enough to ask these infrastructure big picture questions.

A huge portion of Buffalos future comes down to investment in infrastructure.

Dan what adding destinations does often do is create capacity in other aspects. People along Main Street use the rail line to connect to downtown or UB. UB becomes a defacto and safe park and ride location for those to park and ride into downtown. So I think that a route from Downtown to the airport would allow everyone on the east side, cheektowaga and downtown to commute to more locations without a car.

Extension of our current line north would allow people to walk from all the homes in Eggertsville, and parts of Amherst along the way to a route that would bring them to school, work (Ub has 9,000 + employees) and all the businesses that it could potentially connect in between.

IMO you need to have destinations at the ends of routes to generate the traffic on the line otherwise a routes that connects nothing but neighborhoods will falter. Look at majority of cross route buses here already. 29 Wohlers, 22 Porter-Best, 7 Baynes-Richmond all are rather pointless routes that don't get much ridership because all they do is move through residential neighborhoods without a logic of connecting point A to B.

I guess an ideal route is one that connects two important destinations and residential neighborhoods to them.

Buffalo339, I suggest you go to the CRTC website where they have highlighted versions of the NFTA consultants report to extend the light rail.

It found that the airport corridor was the one that would add the greatest riders and revenue per mile and have the greatest impact on downtown. This was done before the airport reached nearly 6million travelers, announced it didnt anymore room to expand the facility or to expand parking, this was before major growth in lancaster, before major growth at the Galleria, redevelopment successes at the Central Terminal and redevelopment successes in the Larkin District.

Its no wonder the NFTA announced the decision to recommission that report for an update so that it could apply for startup funds to extend the light rail.

LOOK IF BUFFALO GETS STUCK WITH $4, $5, $6 A GALLON GAS THEN WE WILL BE LIKE EVERY OTHER CITY BUT IF WE HAVE LIGHT RAIL THEN WE WILL HAVE A REASON FOR BUSINESSES TO COME BACK TO THE CITY AND ALL POINTS ALONG....AS WE ARE FINDING WITH DEVELOPMENTS ALONG MAIN RIGHT NOW.

UB was next in line because it was desperately in need of off campus parknride (just like the airport corridor) with guarranteed ridership of up to 40,000 people moving between campus and to off-campus parknrides and off campus housing. It only came in second because its route while shorter involved more expensive underground sections before it came to surface. I should say this was before the growth at the Fruit Belt and Amherst was announced.

Niagara Falls wasnt that far behind and was even tight because even though it was longer, the tracks and right of ways already existed. Imagine what the study would say today with major announcements to restore the falls parks and the Seneca Niagara Casino needing access to the Buffalo Niagara Airport.

Lastly...we have an opportunity with the Beltway to link Buffalo State. Its not a discussion that should be silenced.

Look around...Buffalo doesnt have very many golden geese laying eggs....

Buffaloweiner> Dan there are no factories on the Beltway anymore and it was originally built for passenger service not freight.

However the right of ways for the NYC line just above the beltway line are still there. Freight could be redirected to that line to reactivate the beltway for passenger use.

It's not so much where trains stop and deliver boxcars to factories, it's that there's tens of through freight trains a day, either going to the International Bridge or Niagara Falls.

The other railroad belt, looping through the far reaches of North Buffalo and the East Side, is the former Erie and DL&W ROW. Much of the right-of-way is now gone; proposed subdivisions in North Buffalo, William Gaiter Parkway, and so on. Most of the bridges that carries the Erie and DL&W over city streets are gone. Much of the grade was removed for fill dirt.

It might be nice to have a Portland-like streetcar on Elmwood, but overhead catenary would ruin the character of the street, and Buffalo's legendary snowfall would make a below-ground power source impractical.

/Not an old fart railroad geek. Really.

thanks dan....it wont change my support...but...what Ican say is that there is a problem that needs to be solved....

By the way, the railway referred to in this thread is actually The Belt Line built in 1883 by the New York Central Railroad.

From Chuck LaChiusa's website linked above, "Along with the immense freight service, the Belt Line provided access from any area in the city to any other part of the city for a nickel fare. With its stations conveniently located in every part of Buffalo; the East Side, West Side, North Buffalo, South Buffalo, Riverside/Black Rock, and Downtown, access to any point in the city was within walking distance if you had a nickel."

Here's a cheaper and realistic alternative: Get the NFTA to take one regular bus and dedicate it to JUST running the elmwood strip (no Richmond loop or Tops/Wegmans run). Then PAINT the bus something very unique to Elmwood so that people on the street know without a doubt that it's the Elmwood Strip "trolley", and that it travels only the strip.

The problem with NFTA is that it's confusing. Sure people that use it regularly have no problems, but the casual shopper/visitor on Elmwood doesn't have a clue what the schedule is or where the stops are or where the bus is really going. Make it EXTREMELY SIMPLE... simple enough for out-of-towners to use... and it will be wildly successful

The Gallery District" "Mid-Town Buffalo" "West Elmwood Village" "Entertainment District" "Theater District" How and when did Buffalo get all these districts? This is sweet!

I agree Gaustad. Everytime i see these monikers it makes me laugh. "West Village???" Where's Bleeker Street? Comical. I think it is a ll a creation of BRO. Pretty pathetic. Seriously, hiow does a city Buffalo's size have a mid-town?

OK I am an admitted Rail Nerd (but not quite to old fart-ness yet), grew up with the Belt Line (then the NY Central) running behind my house on Linden and spent most of my childhood days playing on those tracks...and getting in trouble on them as well. If I wasn't there I was on the Erie and Lackawanna tracks farther north (obviously pre-merger). Both grandfathers and every uncle I had worked for the railroad, my mother's father would hop on the Belt Line and ride to the DL&W terminal where he worked...he got to ride for free.

Lockport runs a free trolley between attactions in July and August http://www.theamherstrecord.com/local/local_story_206021535.html

Grace, Georged and Guastad...same person? Nah. However your biased and blind Buffalo hating runs through all of your threads. Who cares if Buffalo has different names for it's DIFFERENT neighborhoods...the fabric and atmosphere can change drastically over the course of one block in Buffalo...why not distinguish them so we can promote the colorfulness and variety that is Buffalo. Which BTW is something most places in America lack. Furthermore, Staten Island is relative to Buffalo in population and they have dozens of different neighborhoods with different names. Niagara Falls has a fifth of the population of Buffalo and we have a "Mid Town". The real problem here is why does this bother you guys so much?

other than being a miserable nuisance to humanity that is waiting to die

(deleted)

is anything you say true grace? the more you post the less validity anything you say has. In previous posts you have said you are a guy and currently reside in both atlanta AND chicago.....you cant even lie well...

A while back, I posted about the trend of naming every new up-and-coming neighborhood "Something District"; Cobblestone District, Flower District, Medical District, and so on. Can't we get a little bit more original? Should the area north of the Theater District be called the "Portal District?" Suggestions such as "NoDo" and other interesting names many suggested were dismissed as being "too trendy".

Thank God/Adonai/Allah/Buddha/Ganesh/Bridgid the trend of naming and renaming neighborhoods for street intersections (Kensington to Kensington-Bailey, Polonia to Broadway-Fillmore, East End to Bailey-Delavan, Schiller Park to Bailey-Genesee, Main-Winspear, Elmwood-Utica, Elmwood-Bidwell, Grant-Ferry and so on) faded away in the late 1980s.

To the people saying the NFTA buses are ugly - go to NYC or Chicago, buses are the same everywhere. NFTA buses are fine--I'd even call them comfortable. Please do not replace them with something that looks like the picture accompanying this article.