Buffalo Rising Online

It would be a crime - similar to what was done to the Central Terminal - if the building was stripped of it's physical character and symbolism. If the BBMC does as they wish, expect the market to close and be vacant for a long time, similar to the Central Terminal. In addition, The Broadway Market Mgmt Corp. and The City will be in a legal battle for a long time. Why not spend the effort, time, and money marketing The Market better? I'm sure if there was better management and less ego some of my ideas here would have been implemented:

1) The market needs better hours. 9-5PM (M-F) is no good for anyone that wants to stop by after work. Start latter and end at 8PM for more of the vendors. I'm sure there are some coffee shops that might want to still open early. 2) From what I understand there were ideas to have other "high" holiday events at The Market besides Easter. For instance, some of the holiday's could include Christmas, Independence Day, and Thanksgiving. The one time there was an holiday (other than Easter) that was celebrated at The Market, it brought it a lot of people and money! The BBMC did not want to deal with that again - poor management. The more people exposed to the market more regularly, the better The Market does, the better Broadway-Fillmore area does. It will snowball. 3) The new Broadway Market board CAN NOT consist of any existing members of the BMMC. If it does, there will be disaster written all over it.

This East Buffalo neighborhood does not need any more downhill things to happen - there are positive things going on - let's keep it that way.

Good! I can't imagine why they would ever think that they should be able to sell the stuff in the Market. It was a management coroporation, that is all. They never actually owned anything. Trying to sell it would basically be theft from the city.

Unfortunately this isnt like 3rd street farmers Market and The Grove in Los Angeles...where restauranteurs actually get food. Too bad the Broadway market is on the eastside

shame those towers of the Broadway Aud are gone. More the "Aud" north facade over to the north facade on the Broadway Aud and we have a winner for the new Broadway Market ;)

times change. city's change. the market would probably take off if it was moved to the waterfront. buffalo's biggest set back is in trying to save evey bit of history. the market is busy during easter, big whoop. it needs to be busy every day to make it a viable asset to the city which it is not at this time, proven by the fact that it is 3 quarters empty and poorly patronized.

Martin, the market should be a neighborhood asset and cator to the burgeoning immigrant population, unfortuantely people involved with the market may let nostalgia get in the way with their desire to keep it a mainly Polish market. The management should embrace the new diversity within the Broadway-Fillmore District, the market wouldn't be the same as it has been, but in essence its mission would be closer to its original use. Moving the Broadway Market to the waterfront and calling it the "Broadway Market" would be akin to calling the new TD Banknorth "Garden" in Boston, the Boston Garden. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but it shouldn't be the Broadway Market, if that's the approach, it should be something new and allow the broadway to either reinvent itself in its location or fade into history as a memorable relic of yesteryear.

The waterfront is going to be [or could be] Buffalo's saving grace [along with the medical corridor] I believe since it has been untouched for decades. The city has the option to work with a clean slate and make it a wonderful destination spot. The old terminal would be a good spot or create a new one. The name could change also, maybe old world market, waterfront market, lake effect market, whatever. The subway may actually have a true destination point also with the move. Having it at the water would enhance the area if the city does get theatres, cafes and shopping there along with boating and concert venues. [and what burgeoning immigrant market? That was a century ago]

Martin, a century ago the immigrants were Eastern European, the new immigrants are Muslim, african and asian, all with traditions and needs that are no different than those of prior generations of immigrants. There deffenetly is a growing Muslim community around the market and I believe immigrants of other backgrounds have settled in the neighboring area as well. For the market to have any chance of success at its current location, it must meet the needs of the community members, because others will not travel there to buy what you can get at the supermarket.

Hate to break hearts but Guercio's gets their produce from US Foods, Curtze, and Sysco and then resells it... Yes they have some cute fancy gourmet items not found everywhere but their meats and cheeses are great. We do need a cheese monger, a fish monger, a butcher, a baker, etc etc. The waterfront would be a great place, or even the old Latinas on Elmwood Summer area would be centrally located.

Assarino lives in his Mom's basement and she allows him computer time after he has finished the chores

By Design Please refresh my memory, Mom didnt pay my allowance and I was off line for a while. The basement is nice, we have shag carpeting from the 70's and I have beeds in the doorway for privacy (kind of like Greg Brady). I do not recall this Douchebag reference., humorless, perhaps... Just because you can not recognize sarcasm when it is blatent, is not my fault. If I did call you a douchebag, it was strictly out of rhetoric and I apologize if you took it the wrong way.

My reply was in defense of Marketwach, NOT YOU! I for one am sick of the childish posts of this gentleman Assaroni, insulting everything and everyone who posts on this board. I am only using his words to work against him. He was the one who bandied about Jim Johnson being an Obama employee, when in fact he was an unpaid volunteer (on the VP vetting committee) for 72 hours befor being dismissed by the campaign, in June, 60 days prior to Fannie Mae collapse, he was the bully here, I simply set his facts straight.

I am all for Buffalo. I am all for markets like these. I am also suspect of overbuilding and over developing.

Auburner - Jim Johnson was appointed personally by Obama to a very prestigious influential position on the campaign - the 3-member leadership of his VP selection team. It's revealing at worst, or sloppy and embarrassing at best, that Obama would appoint a disgraced ex Fannie Mae CEO who also was under an ethical cloud due to a shady deal with with Countrywide Financial. Even Jim Johnson himself decided the appointment was a bad idea because he resigned, voluntarily according to the Obama campaign's statement at the time.

Btw, Johnson spent at least 21 days in that role. (You say 72 hrs? WTF?) His work was revealed at least as early as May 22, says this in Obama-friendly Chicago Tribune on that day. Then Johnson resigned June 11. That's at least 21 days, and who knows when he actually started before it was leaked to the Tribune.

Further, his work for the campaign in other ways also occurred after June 11. The following from Obama-friendly Politico.com can be found using Google (won't press my luck that BRO allows two URL links in a comment).

'September 24, 2008 Johnson to lead Obama briefing

Johnson's involvement comes at a moment when political association with the failed mortgage giants is particularly toxic. He was already the subject of a McCain ad attacking Obama. The October third breakfast is also a mark of the continuing effort to bring the ex-Clintonites into the Obama fold. Note: These are regular briefings, as Marc Ambinder has reported, though Johnson hasn't previously been cast in a leading role.'

Just because so much major media is making extreme efforts to keep as minimally reported as possible the negative associations between Obama and some leading figures of the mortgage industry (and their sky high money donations to him) doesn't mean Assaroni is making things up. Ok, you guys can now return to more serious topics like who's living in basements.

It won't happen but what should happen is phase out of all taxpayer subsidy and all government control over the Broadway Market. Auction off the market as a whole to the private sector (for-profit or non-profit, either is fine with me), then let it sink or swim, move or stay, grow or shrink, concentrate or diversify - all whatever the new owners want to do.

Why should city govt be spending time and money sponsoring a food market in 2008? Guercio's has survived and thrived on it's own, also on a very declining street, without the mayor or council members or taxpayers being dragged into it. Why shouldn't the Broadway Market be able to? Yes I know Bway Market is a bunch of markets and Guercio's is just one, but it's the same idea.

This is a great opportunity for the city govt to start treating the East Side more like a capable grownup as it deserves to be treated. To have politicians debating food market strategies, business hours, merchant selection, and all that should be an embarrassment for all involved.

Atwater Ob won the nomination on June 4th, he left on june 8th. He was never paid a dime and never had influence... Spare me with Politico too

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5047811

Auburner - Nobody says it matters if a VP selection panel receives salary. Jim Johnson has many millions as ex-CEO of Fannie Mae. His campaign pay would be power and influence, not money. Not many campaign roles are higher than the few people in charge of advising confidentially on the VP choice.

Yes the outrage caused Johnson to leave (voluntary or pushed) well before the VP decision was made, but the outrage was because it showed awful judgment for Obama to choose a scandal plagued mortgage industry ex-CEO. The issue is the decision, not how long it lasted before falling apart.

About timing, Obama's friendly home paper the Chicago Tribune reported May 22 that Johnson's was at work on VP selection (apparently 1st of what became a 3-member panel). The Chicago Tribune web site plainly says that date in the link. You can take up your argument with them. Jim Johnson's work in September was revealed in an email from former Democratic Sen Daschle as quoted above.

Just because you disagree wit Assaroni about other things doesn't mean he's wrong about this. Why is it so impossible that he, the Chicago Tribune, and Daschle's email are correct? Maybe they're all wrong, and I'm wrong, and you're right, but....

Wow 6 more days then Broadway Market talk can return to normal.

auburner, trim your crotch and watch your mouth

Meh. That's the nature of blogs that get a lot of comments. Topics divert sometimes, just like in real life. Not a big deal if it's occasional. If it bothers anyone too terribly, the Ignore User feature can make offenders disappear.

marketwatch - yours and Cojo's complaints about Broadway Market are informative. I didn't know it was quite that bad. It sounds like a no-brainer that Save-a-Lot would be smart to add security in their parking lot to reduce danger. It might also enable them to allow shopping carts in the lot for car loading. Whatever added costs to their prices would seem small for adding guards for the lot, good lighting, and a few cameras.

But I don't get is why a food market is something the city government 'owes its citizens' as you say. As I said before it just doesn't sound like a sensible responsibility for us to expect of City Hall. Cojo's point that Tops provides a much better experience most ways helps make the case that a private entity might to a much better job with Broadway Market too. Or if that fails too, life oges on. The city isn't trying to run markets across the whole city, so why do it in this one spot?

Paul - My comment about other parts of Buffalo not having a city-owned market was reaction to the idea that City Hall "owes" Broadway-Fillmore a good food market. It doesn't.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see merit in your comparison of Broadway Market and Seattle's Pike Place. They seem very different. Re your point that public markets owned by city govts can be beneficial... ok, I can accept they can possibly be in some cases. In this case, I don't see how it's beneficial for Buffalo. Permanently transitioning it to the private sector (for-profit or non-profit) might help improve it and save it, and if it still keeps failing that way then what should that tell us about its viability in real world 2008?

From a quick browse of the web, it seems public markets run successfully by U.S. cities are very few in number and most that do still exist are open only 2 or 3 days per week.

marketrate - Yes evidently politicians once decided City Hall should own, control, and help fund the B-way Market, but that's no reason it should have to stay that way forever. There's much that citizens must depend on city govt for - police, fire, courts, snow plowing, and so on, but what I was saying is a food market isn't important enough to have on that list when there's many other deep problems and better uses for attention and taxpayer $.

You say Rochester's market can be a good example, but isn't that open only 3 days/week and never in evenings? If it followed Roch's example, the B-way Market would scale back instead of adding hours as some suggest.

http://www.cityofrochester.gov/prhs/publicmarket/currentSchedule.cfm

'Open each Saturday, 5:00 a.m. until 3:00 p.m. and Tuesdays and Thursdays, 6:00 a.m. until 1:00 p.m. Located off East Main Street, Downtown Rochester. Take either Railroad or Union Street to the Market. An exciting cornucopia of fresh seasonal produce direct from area farmers, crafts, dry goods, meat, fish and poultry products, as well as fresh dairy items and ethnic home baked foods. Located at its present site since 1905 and offering more than 300 vendor stalls. ...'

How about as a first step scale back B-way Market to same days/hrs as Rochester's is open? That could cut expenses and make it more feasible for a non-profit group to take ownership and full control.

Wow, that "only sense in which" point didn't even last an hour.

PaulBuffalo 16:37 - 'AtwaterLouse, the only sense in which Seattle's Pike Place is different than Broadway Market is that it's larger and more successful.'

PaulBuffalo 17:32 - 'Dagner, my comment regarding the similarity is that Pike Place Market has a governing structure similar to Broadway Market.'

From now on, Danger should be in charge around here. Good luck, Danger. It's not easy unraveling what a lot of these people say but you have a good talent for it.