Buffalo Rising Online

I heard they stopped building these town homes because there was no demand for them....is this true? I haven't seen anymore go up. You can buy a townhome in Rivermist for less and have a view of the water.

Waterfront is a nice area, but prices have gotten ahead of themselves. They will correct like the rest of the country very soon.

Shuuu-uuuuuuup! You're supposed to say that the buyers are strictly people moving from WITHIN the city - not from the burbs. ;-)

I wonder if the person who buys their old house will be from the city or the suburbs? We see one couple move into a building that has received all sorts of incentives and tax breaks to build and we are excited? I would love to figure out the total cost to taxpayers, how much are we paying in the short and long term? Who is ultimately profiting from this development, the people or the developer making money off the people, especially when you figure that this is one more section of the waterfront that will be off limits to the general public.

Of course threre is the usual griping on this site over a positive development.

I do have one concern. In the photo it appears as if the the backayard of the townhouse looks out onto the condo building. If that is the case, I would not be a buyer.

Paladino, Paladino, Paladino - sucking off the breast of the taxpayers while he gets the bucks and still owns property he is allowing to sit and waste away (see Greystone). And now, the new owners have a great view of the waterfront and the low income housing across the way at the Marina Drive Apartments. Yeah, positive.

$560k and no backyard, but a great view of... Canada? LOL great buy!

Ojibwa is one of many names for the Anishinaabe indigenous peoples - also known as the Chippewa, perhaps a more familiar name for Buffalonians.

Thanks for the update Chris!

I'm one of those who moved into the city from Amherst and have been in the Waterfront Village for 7 years. I would have to be destitute to go back to the burbs. Go live in the Main/Transit/Sheridan/ Maple area for a while; downtown is great.

"I'm one of those who moved into the city from Amherst and have been in the Waterfront Village for 7 years. I would have to be destitute to go back to the burbs. Go live in the Main/Transit/Sheridan/ Maple area for a while; downtown is great."

...and ironically, you live in one of the most suburban looking developments in the city.

Nothing wrong with that, just pointing it out :-)

So explain to me how Townhomes with zero lot lines in Waterfront V are more suburban then Elmwood V where detached homes have front and backyards some with driveways and detached garages. Nothing wrong with that, just pointing it out.

Ojibwa was also the name of the US Coast Guard cutter that for many years served as an icebreaker in Buffalo Harbor, it was decommissioned in 1980

our waterfront development is not very urban. It's completely detached fropm the rest of the city. I assume driving is the best way to get from your home to a store or anything. Not sure though.

Tyson's Corner, Virginia? Fort Lee, New Jersey? Dreary.

Silly little windows.

could those town houses be any more boring? where is the style? where is the flair?

I've been wondering what, in some minds, is the difference between "urban and suburban." I suppose that Johnson Park is urban; I wonder if Waterford Park off Sheridan is urban in suburbia? Why is Oakland, Middlesex, etc., any different than many of the streets in Snyder. I wonder if the homes along Lake Erie in the Wanakah are suburban; the views are like those in the Waterfront Village. Perhaps Clarence and Orchard Park are truly suburban.

The dictionary defines urban as being within a city limits, it doesn't refer to architecture, lot size or any other attributes. We aren't surprised to see that the definition of suburb is that it is a community outside of a city!! Profound.

If more people were on board with helping the downtown area of our urban region to rejuvenate as oppossed to petty, individual preferences we'd get there sooner. Why should anyone take issue with a developer of residences, offices, etc., who is making things happen. Too many naysayers who accomplish nothing. The property I am on in the WV was undeveloped for nearly 20 years; imagine right on the water, just sitting there.

By the way, convenience to food or mall shopping is closer in driving time from the WV than from East Amherst or Clarence.

Great comments, Doc.

PDB - The Buffalo Rising dictionary of pomposity, architecture, and righteous design defines Urban anything within the city limits that inherently has more class, culture, history, and style than anything suburban. The definition of suburban is the tasteless, bland, and whitewashed world outside of the City Limits of Buffalo. Urban = Good, Suburban = Bad. It is that simple. Urban = artistic, cool, and humble, while Suburban = rich, elitist, and uncool. The city is the hipster while the suburbs are the Man.

In reality there is no difference between a house on Middlesex and a house on Darwin in Snyder. The only difference is perception from the snobby elitists who believe that everything needs to be mixed-use residential, built to the curb, architecturally unique, and completely affordable for the average Buffalonian earning $22,000 a year. We have to reuse all buildings, nothing should be removed, altered or destroyed if anyone can attribute any sense of history or merit to the structure, that is unless you are talking about a house on the east side, then we prefer that Buffalo Reuse will be able to turn it into parts for more worthy houses in the Elmwood Village.

In terms of hierarchy, it goes something like: Elmwood Village, Cobblestone, Allentown, off-Elmwood (Richmond - Linwood), North Buffalo, Near West Side, University Heights, South Buffalo, West Side, the East Side, then the suburbs. The waterfront doesn't figure in because most Buffalonians just dream about living there and could never make it a reality.

Einstein - Good job on the hierarchy. Seems to me the philosophy you're describing now considers Cobblestone as #1, and Near West Side higher than North Buff. Otherwise your ordering looks correct.

You might want to squeeze in Downtown, Mid-Town / ArtSpace, and Black Rock / Riverside all ahead of North Buff (which some here find too suburban). Also maybe include Ellicottville as an honorary part of the city after the East Side but ahead of the burbs. http://tinyurl.com/yo9kz3

Cobblestone, Elmwood Village, Allentown, Off-Elmwood, Near West Side, Downtown, Mid-Town / ArtSpace, Black Rock / Riverside, North Buff, Univ Heights, South Buff, West Side, East Side, Ellicottville, then the suburbs.

PDB- the difference in in the subruban vs urban debate in regard to Waterfront Village is associated with land use. A separation of land use is more "suburban" while and integration of land uses is more "urban". And it does not just include regulated land use such as housing or commercial but it also includes public vs private space.

Waterfront village is considered suburban becasue it grows out of the original masterplan for the Erie Basin Marina, it has nothing to do with whether one can afford to live there. The Erie Basin Marina has a distinct public realm and a distinct private realm. In the private realm the public is entirely excluded from access to the water or green space associated with the condos. In the public realm there is nearly 100% access with public parking and green space. What I like about the Erie Basin Marina is the accesability to the water and the continuous walk from the observation tower to the Naval museum. What is unfortunate is that you cannot continue that walk along the water to Lasalle Park and make a stronger connection between regional assets. The public space is pushed to the back of the condos on a bike path running along railroad tracks. Most projects planned today would integrate housing with public open space and use that access to the water as a means to sell more units. Even condo owners in Waterfront Village that do not live directly on the water have very limited access to it.

nyc - perhaps the issue isn't urban/suburban since they are defined terms, but whether or not the planning could have been done better. I feel that LaSalle park is tremendously underutilized, but is totally available from the WV.

PDB - i agree, the definition of "urban" is a big hang up for people on this site. It's about smart planning vs being short sighted. I think the Erie Basin Marina Plan is shortsighted but it was conceived at a time when this was the norm. I think it's great however that it is finally getting built out and it says good things about Buffalo - even with the tax breaks (lower Manhattan has the same breaks for new homeowners).

Waterfront place: the units are selling Brace yourself for Gates Circle: those units will sell North Buffalo is the only part of the city that is in really good shape..but they're suburban..so they don't matter

could it be that as a suburban oriented society.. anything new is viewed as suburban because thats where the growth is???

Hospitable - Normally I would be annoyed with the comment about "anything new is viewed as suburban" but in New York, you hear it all the time - the "suburbanization of manhattan". The "authentic" neighborhoods and people are being replaced with popular commercial ventures and families. The hipsters are gone! I think it is nonsense. The reality is Manhattan is becoming more popular as a place to live for a larger cross section of society except for those who can't afford it. While frustrating in that regard, I think it is a good thing as New York moves towards a Europeon model where the city become the "place to live" and demand for center city apartments and condos skyrockets. This leads to the perception that the city is becoming "suburbanized" as more baby strollers and dog walkers populate city sidewalks. I hope every city moves in this direction as from a cultural and environmental point of view it only means good things. Our cities should not be wastelands or at best grade B real estate.

The distinction between the waterfront condos in buffalo and new condos in new york is the physical design of each. In new york, generally these projects comply with the existing configuration of the city and provide either sidewalk level retail or open space that while privately owned is completely accessable to the public. The Waterfront Place condos in buffalo are entirely private and provide no public amentiy. Even the open space provided between the condo tower and townhouses is for the exclusive use of the residents. Therefore the word "suburban" is relevant. It would not apply however to every new development in the city unless you are lamenting the loss of something thought to be more "authentic".

600k for a townhome or condo, some without a view is {edit}. The condos are sold as a shell and then the buyer has to spend even more money building them out.

Great development for downtown, too expensive for me. Waterfront is nice, but you can't touch anything down there for less than 300k.....its not that nice...and very cold in the winter.

Market has become over priced, wait and see. Prices will correct!

@DOC... stop!!!, you made me snort coffee outa my nose. Loved your comment...how true!

I agree with RisingDamp666...I took my wife to see these ( we live in Clarence Center and are seriously considering moving back to the city to take advantage of a more active nightlife/activity) and teh first words out of her mouth was "these look like the Lakeview Projects"....I spoke to a sales manager and asked that for over $500K why aren't there any stone accents , quoins or stone window ledges .....everything is red brick .....better yet do different stone/brick facades for every other townhouse...much like the developments in NO. VA & Md ( I previously lived in Alexandria, VA and no two townhouses could have the same facade in a townhouse block) ......I was lamely told that the city would not allow it ...I find that hard to beleive in some respects...but then again it is Buffalo .....

In response to many of the comment posted on this topic; living in wv offers busy professionals the best of both worlds. You can have the advantages of living in a vibrant city, without buying an older house that requires lots of maintenance. The villiage is a little isolated, but you still can walk to hsbc arena, dunn tire park/pilot field, pearl st, city grill, etc. Benefits you do not have in the burbs. Some posters are correct and you do not get a large chunck of land for a significant sum of money, but not everyone want to mow a lawn. There is plenty of park land at lasalle for children to enjoy, rather than in there own backyard. The exterior design of wp is not awe-i nspiring, but the interiors are beautiful with all top notch amenities. This project is not perfect for everyone, but fits a certail niche clientele. Any addition to the city should be welcome. The people who live in these projects will shop in the city, drink in the city, get their haircut in the city and overall contribute to the cities resurgence.