Buffalo Rising Online

TOO BAD DICK DAUCH ..wasn't sold with it. He raped the city, state govt. the american worker all in the greed of profit....and was compensated to the tune of $10 million dollars in the process. Hell..he is hated so much , his son quit the business and opened up a competing mfg outlet...and rumor has it, his son wanted to buy the Tonawanda plant and resume mfg, but refused...as they now cut up some very hard to acquire equipment for scrap..to further protect anyone from acquiring it and competing against him. ATrojan horse for sure...when G.M. sold off to him!!

I love how quickly the average worker questions the validity of executive pay, while they will shut down the company before taking any concessions in theirs.

He us right to divide it up but wrong to demolish half of it. Nuf said!

allfit- I love the way you can be depended on to defend the rich and powerful and attack the poor and weak.

BRL - I am not defending the "Rich and Powerful" or attacking the "Poor and Weak"; however I do find it hypocritical that it is acceptable to attack the CEO who takes the risk to run the company for the stock holders, while it is unacceptable to say anything about a group of workers who feel that it is their perogative to stop production because they refuse to take concessions on their pay or benefits.

Your view that the workers are "Poor and Weak" against the unfeeling giants of industry highlights your perpetual victim mentality.

The CEO puts his or her name and reputation on the line to manage the performance of the entire organization. They take on the risks associated with the actions of thousands, or tens of thousands of employees, often located throughout the world. They maintain and manage the brand, reputation, p&L, and ultimately the return to shareholder's investment on behalf of the entire company. They have taken the risks and sacrifices to get to the CEO position (in most cases), including flexibility in job role, ability to relocate, the assumption of additional skills and expertise in many areas of business, etc. Most CEOs of international companies are proficient in multiple languages. They have advanced expertise in business processes and are leaders in their businesses, these things do not come by osmosis or accident; the CEO dedicates time, effort and personal energy to aquire these skills.

The CEO is in the position that s/he is in because of their success throughout their career with one or several companies. They have taken on personal responsibility and increased risk throughout their career, this is the way that promotions typically happen. They are accountable for their actions and the actions of their teams, companies, etc. The average worker does not assume that accountability or responsibility. They have worked to differentiate themselves from peers in both their company and the industry, they have put in the hours, the dedication, and taken the risks to move up the ladder to the top. They have earned the trust and respect of colleagues and superiors, they have applied knowledge and expertise to provide a different and improved environment and outcome for the company. The average worker does not.

When comparing risks associated with working a line at American Axle, versus the CEO of American Axle, the risks associated with being the CEO are exponentially greater than the average worker. The CEO has a vested interest in the organization beyond the paycheck and benefits. They have their name on the line and have put them in a position where the average line worker can criticize them without knowing what they do or how they do it. The average worker is easily replacable, the CEO is not. There are thousands or tens of thousands of candidates who can take the average workers place, the same is not true for the CEO. Most employees are not willing to take the risks, the sacrifices, or the time that it takes to move up in the organization, they just expect promotions based on time and tenure. It is diffiicult for the average worker to understand what is really involved in being a CEO, just like it is difficult for the weekend athlete to understand the sacrifice and risks associated with being a pro football player.

It is funny that we question the CEO's salary and effort, but have no concerns with paying Jennifer Aniston $20M for a movie, or a baseball player $45M for 5 seasons of play.

allfit.....how do you apply this CEO logic to the current Wall street implosion?????

allfit- You are consistent and predictable in your perpetual defense of the status quo.You seem unwilling to question the power structure that has not been fair or equitable for most Americans. You have a right to your own conservative views but should extend that right to those with different ideas. Personal attacks make you appear petty and add nothing to the debate.

PaulBuffalo - I wrote my response to address in response to the original post and Joey's comments, which was about American Axle, and the concern that employees of American Axle had with the compensation of the Chief Executive and his son. The comment that I originally posted, that you responded to, was about workers who feel that they have the right to question and demand concessions from the Executives of the organization; yet feel that they have the right to shut down the company instead of making their own concessions.

You would be hard pressed to find a CEO of a major organization whose compensation isn't directly tied to the performance of the company. You would also be hard pressed to find a CEO of a major corporation who would not lose their job if the performance of the company was not up to par and standards, given market conditions. In other words, if the CEO does not do their job, they are usually out without notice or a chance for appeal (outside of legal recourse); while the employee has many layers of protection through the Fair Labor Standards Act, State regulations, and corporate policies to protect them.

Smaller and private companies are a different conversation that we can have at a different time. I should have clarified my comment by saying, "in this context" when I started.

BRL - I am definitely not one to defend the status quo, it is funny that you would think that given your unwillingness to see other viewpoints and perspectives. I understand your viewpoint, do you understand mine?

I know the logic behind your thoughts that the world is 'not fair or equitable', you believe that the executives of this world make too much money for the work that they do. I can appreciate that, but I also know that the majority of people who believe that would not have the time, energy, or dedication necessary to reach that level of management. Your view is that the laborers of the world are the true workers, and the executives are just stuffed shirts barking out orders between their glasses of champagne and extravagant trips around the world. You believe that the world would stop without the workers, but would go on fine without the executives. The executives are not workers, because they do not get their hands dirty on the assembly line or do not understand what it is to "struggle". The CEOs are living high on the hog while the rest of the employees are suffering on their low wages. Is that about right?

For the record, I am not a conservative. I do believe in the free market and paying a wage that the market will bear for a menial position, such as those offered by American Axle. If the position is more complex, then the wage is adjusted accordingly. A scarcity in workers will demand a higher wage, etc, etc, etc. I also believe that the salaries of many executives are too high, but I have also done my research to know that the extremes are no different than those in sports and entertainment. High profile executives are often paid out of hype or desperation, much like sports stars. If you pay executive A a certain salary, then executive B is going to demand that salary plus a little more. Not unlike professional athletes or entertainment figures. If actress A is paid a certain amount for a movie, then actress B is going to demand more, same for music, etc, etc, etc.

Keep in mind, that the average CEO salary for all public companies in America is $151,940 (reference Fast Company), before performance bonus and options. The average salary for workers in America is $46,892, before bonuses and benefits. (reference Fast Company) The difference is extreme, but so are the expectations.

I know you hate corporations and see them as horrible oppressors of the common man, but I would hope that you can open your mind to see what they do indeed offer to America.

My dad and my brothers worked here and bitched constantly about how much the company sucked. It is still sad to see if being tored down though.

allfit- For the record, I am a member of senior management and have never belonged to a union. I did work my way up starting in the trades and know both sides of the conflict between labor and management. Most people work hard and want to do a good job. Most people are not paid a living wage. Justifying the salaries of corporate executives by comparing them to sports and entertainment makes no sense, both are obscene. Your reference to CEO salary is BEFORE bonuses and options, this is where the big money comes in as you must know. I don't hate corporations but believe they can and should benefit all, not the greedy few.

Have you all read Atlas Shruged? This reminds me a lot of that book.

oh come off it! For 40-50 years, CEOs and Boards of Directors and Senior Staff have been making millions for keeping their multi-million dollar salaries with stock options and severance packages by:

1) outsourcing entire sections of their company to little more than a subcontract for a foreign supplier (aka off shoring / outsourcing).

2) running their company like an investment bank rather than a product or service provider. Companies such as GM made more money from financing the sale of the car than on the car.

3) by being corporate raiders, taking over a company, selling its assets piecemeal

This isnt tallent. Anyone can pay someone else to do their job. Anyone can strip a car for spare parts.

The entire boomer generation has made their money by dismantling the industry that took 200 years and world wars to build, then using that money for debt debt debt.

So please dont tell me about the patriotism or fairness of corporate CEOs! Im not a fan of lazy ass unions, especially civil service unions that rape the taxpayer constantly. However as other nations like Japan have proved, if you treat workers properly and lead by example then people dont need or want the unions.

In a city that is ripe for small business incubators, they should not demolish but subdivide the space first, then put demolition on the table after 2-3 years.