Buffalo Rising Online

Nice article.

Every Albany Time Union story about Buffalo should be followed by the disclaimer " Of Course Buffalo would be economically prosperous if not for inept state Government based in Albany."

hmm, not sure why my original post didn't show up, seems to be happening a lot lately.

I used to live in the Capital District, and I grew up around Saratoga. I much prefer Buffalo to either. The only things I really miss about living there are the proximity to the Adirondacks and hills.

Buffalo: Better than Schenectady/Troy

Steel, what your suggested disclaimer ignores is even though state govt is based in Albany the legislators Buffalo voters send there decade after decade are a part of the problem.

Small part proportionatley because we're such a small part of the state, but in voting record the Hoyt, Peoples, Thompson, etc. are of the high-tax / high-regulate / keep-raising-spending / bring-pork-that-bro-readers-want philospohy. Just as Brown and Masiello were when we sent them to Albany then rewarded them with the mayor's office.

There's no reason to think Buffalo would be more economically prosperous if it was a separate state with Brown and Masiello as the two most recent governors and our common council members as state legislators. Things would probably be even worse.

Every Albany Time Union story about Buffalo should be followed by the disclaimer " Of Course Buffalo would be economically prosperous if not for inept state Government based in Albany."

Geez - I thought Buffalo was the center of the universe - the best place to live. Go figure.

no one reads letters to the editor...well, except for steel ;)

it was written by a buffalonian. so its not like outsiders are seeing buffalo in a new light. newelll-you could write letters to the editor too if you like.

i dont see how this is news-worthy at all.

Well said STEEL

Joshua:

I'm in your club. Maybe Buffalo is too self-conscious. Infact, many of the reasons I love living in Buffalo will unfortunately become diminished when people flock here, attracted to our lack of density and congestion. Personally, I am not looking forward to waiting in line at restaurants or sitting in traffic every day.

Allthingsbuffalo.... the name of the website is Buffalo Rising, not CNN. It seems like a thorough recap of the projects going on in the city.

I'm from saratoga (galway) but I came to buffalo for college. I've been here 7 and will probably be here another 4-5. I did not know much of Buffalo besides UB was big and had my major. I throughly enjoy the city and all the area offers. When I go home, friends and family rip buffalo apart despite never being there or simply driving through. I hear it all, from the bills, to the cold, the the snow, to the slums. All of their opinions unfounded The only way any of them will change their mind is when the finally come to visit. One weekend here transforms their views from Buffalo being the 7th level of a frozen hell to a pretty cool place.

coolrobc- I miss the mountains and hills too :(

While I do miss them for hiking and skiing. The southern tier and northern PA are more than adequate to get my fix between my visits home.

PS: Saratoga Springs is overrated

I never thought of Albany as a city where people would criticize Buffalo. When I think of Buffalo bashing I think of folks from warm cities like Miami or Wales Vagina. (San Diego for those of you who didn't see Anchor Man)

**Whales**

npage148, I grew up in Stillwater, near Saratoga Lake.

Places like Cattaraugus county help me get by ;-)

I used to get the same crap from friends and family back there. A visit or two has changed just about all of their minds, a few have even considered moving here.

Allthings,

It does not purport to be newsworthy, just a conversation piece. I found the story interesting because people in Albany somehow feel superior to Buffalo. That just goes to show how far Buffalo has to go to repair its image and that IS news worthy.

It is pretty arrogant to generalize by saying, "People in Albany somehow feel superior to Buffalo." Aren't you engaging in the very same stereotyping you are criticizing??? Posts like this do have the scent of desperation -- like maybe if we say our progress is moving at lightning speed enough times it will actually be true.

Buffalo's a great place, and it needs a lot of work. So let's take off the rose-colored glasses and roll up our sleeves.

Well it would be generalizing to say that ALL people in Albany feel this way or that. But I did not say that. The story writer stated that he runs into people in Albany who look down on Buffalo. That is not a generalization. I think it is valuable to know that Buffalo has a poor reputation even in places like Albany. Buffalo has a long way to go if it expects to be well regarded in places like San Fransisco. Without a positive image outside the area Buffalo will have a hard time attracting business and residents form other places. Nothing rose colored about that.

steel-the fact that people from albany feel superior to buffalo is indeed newsworthy.

i still fail to see the point in discussing a letter to the editor who states things that most of the readers on this site already know.

but w.e....im just saying.

Pundit,

A company does not need to move to Buffalo to invest in Buffalo and it just so happens that the people who have the means to do the investing live in places like San Francisco so yes if Albany is not impressed there is a long way to go to get to the real meat...Isn't that what I just said??????

I think this ultra-sensitivity to our outside reputation is a waste of energy, and frankly, I've never met much of this virulent disdain for Buffalo that some people report as common. Maybe in a couple of New York State cities that are smaller than we are and feel insecure, yeah, but don't we just laugh them off? The facts speak clearly and most New York Staters know them even if they don't acknowledge them: Buffalo is the second largest city in New York State and its cultural resources reflect that--it's a city with more artistic capital than any other city in New York State except the city- state of New York. And it's not the poorest city in New York State--that would be Rochester.

This notion of Buffalo as inferior is pretty recent--it came into currency (with the help of the stupid newspapers) in the 70s. If you grew up in Buffalo in the 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s, you did not feel defensive about being from Buffalo in any way. You were probably somewhat proud.

I don't think the average American has any serious opinion of Buffalo one way or the other, other than an association with cold weather. No more than they have an opinion of Cleveland or Pittsburgh or Indianapolis -- for most people, they're just cities in other states.

Well, Eric, you are right for the most part. Reasoned disdain or affection for a place implies an actual knowledge of a place, and that relatively few people have in the case of Buffalo (and countless other locales about which opinions flow freely and all too loosely).

The most frequent question I get, when I mention that Buffalo is one of my favorite cities, is "What's it like?" Most people actually refrain from prejudging. Mirabile dictu.

well written!

So someone who happens to live in San Francisco is automatically more able to see what is right or wrong with Buffalo than someone from Albany? That just doesn't make sense. By that logic, would Buffalonians be disqualified from making judgments about conditions in San Francisco or New York? Is Buffalo's reputation supposed to be better in other economically depressed cities, or can people there actually make their own independent judgments like everyone else?

good idea chiknlil

We can be open enough to adopt new and foreign good ideas that emerge while remaining focused on what our own unique culture has to offer. All of these self conscious marketing strategies can remain in the background (where marketing strategies belong) while the intesification and refinement of our own Buffalo culture should be brought to the foreground.

We so often seek acceptance and approval from others, we compare ourselves against other cities without taking full inventory of everythiing that makes Buffalo unique and brilliant. This is a great city, not the best in the world, and far from the worst; but magnificent in our own way.

Meh. Looking at it that way, isn't it true that every city and town can claim to be unique, brilliant, great, and magnificent? Kind of makes those words become meaningless then doesn't it? No offense to chiknlil but I think it's all just too much pyscho-babble. It won't do any good to try becoming the Stuart Smalley of cities.

Cities and states that have been kicking Buffalo's and Upstate's behinds over past few decades in economic expansion, corporate growth, and luring people are not doing so by focusing on projecting self esteem and taking inventories to find ways of feeling good about themselves. Those things should be results, not starting points.

As Marv Levy says, 'What you do should speak so loudly that no one can hear what you say."

First of all.. the best way to fight our negative reputation is to have a positive attitude yourself. BRO gets really irritating because it a website about BUFFALO RISING... if you want the statistics about our decline please see THE BUFFALO NEWS.

You know its kind of funny.. I've got a roommate from Virigina...they're loosing a Ford Plant down there.. and it was mentioned on the news... and somehow Buffalo came into the mix... and Buffalo's snow came into the mix.. ppl love to tear this city apart.. the guy see's it soo much down there that he ignores it himself b/c he seen what we as a city have to offer. Not whats portrayed by a bunch of southerners..

Buffalopundit.. we can barely compete with Erie.. are you kidding me?? I love all the new skyscrapers and renovations downthere... downtown Charlotte is lovely.. so suburban in its taste that I would compare it to Amherst before DT Buffalo.

I just get a kick out of the fact that we have so much too offer as a society here... and its STILL viewed as substandard..the quality of life here is quite high.. there is a lot to offer. But its still knocked down and spit on by its own residents??? cut to a gentleman who works at a newspaper in one of the most obnoxious towns I have ever been too.. writing an article about how much he likes his hometown and how one cannot ignore the STATISTICS pointing to the fact that things are changing for the better here?? And the posts regarding his article are negative.... shame on you!

Yoo Buffalopundit.. find me $4 billion in projects going on in Charlotte... or Erie, Pennsylvania... Mr. Negativity

Let me offer a somewhat different perspective on Buffalo, I was born here and grew up during the last of Buffalo's "heydays" in the 1950's and early 1960's (everyone talks about the 580,000 population so we'll use this as a benchmark- some argue Buffalo's decline goes back much father, to the depression--but that's another argument and that is a story in itself.)   I've lived in Las Vegas for over 44 years, my family packed up and headed for greener pastures in 1963.  When my dad was laid off when Bell closed down in 1958 we all feared losing our house, having to drastically cut back, etc... pretty scary stuff for this 5-year old.  He never was able to get a job with comparable pay after that and I still vividly remember him complaining about "#$@# politicians" and the economy, loss of jobs, rampant crime, the schools, white flight, blah blah blah blah.

My point is this:  I'm STILL hearing this today!  C'mon people, this isn't 1958, or 1968 or 1978.  Quit already with the incessant tirades about continued gloom and doom, the blog's name is Buffalo Rising and there are plenty of outlets to vent about the current state of Buffalo.  We're wasting time and effort with the negativity - I'm not saying what you're saying is inaccurate, what I'm saying is get a new mind-set about the FUTURE.  The entire world around us is changing, this is a chance for Buffalo to take advantage of future trends to begin a rebound.  We have plenty of statistics to quote about the trends of the last 50 years and the current state of Buffalo, but stop assuming the next 50 will be just the same.  We are so conditioned to losing it's very difficult to break free of the negative mindset.  We're reinforcing the stereotypes people have on this region.  I'm not saying the rebound is guaranteed, I'm saying we need to be like the visionaries in Buffalo's past who were able to see down the road and capitalize on coming trends.  We have to adapt and be prepared and DO something to help ensure the region's comeback.  If we could only take all the energy wasted on personal attacks on other members of this or any other WNY blog and direct it towards positive change, we all benefit.  Quit fighting amongst yourselves, instead let's take on the real enemy which is Buffalo's decline. 

This takes more than paragraphs on a blogsite to enact this change, I have made it my mantra to put "sweat equity" into Buffalo to make it better.  I'm in the process of relocating back home to Buffalo after living in Las Vegas for over 44 years.  And I've already become active in local causes like Buffalo ReUse, I recognized something Michael Gainer needed fulfilled and I jumped in, offering my IT skills to help organize their databases so he and the staff could get the word out.  Even though I'm 2200 miles away, I am doing something to help out.  I talked to Marti Gorman during Old Home Week and am now administering her databases and coordinating mass emailings of Buffalo By Choice and am now a volunteer for Buffalo Homecoming 2008; I signed up to volunteer at the Central Terminal Restoration Committee, I'm packing up my tools and can offer my construction background to help out there, like I am for ReUse. Actions yield results, words set the framework for those actions. 

I know I'll be portrayed as a cheerleader with unrealistic expectations for the future, that I should get a grip on reality--see the comments on my post in the link above.  And yes, I am also guilty about gross generalizations about an area and its people in my comments about Las Vegas.  Something remarkable happened this week which made me realize this:  a local construction worker was killed on the job leaving a wife and child, at his services some thug stole the collection bowl with over $10,000 in it.  The next day one of the morning shows for the radio stations for which I work put out a plea for listeners to chip in to replace the stolen donation.  Las Vegans opened their hearts and wallets and TRIPLED the amount stolen, raising over $30,000 in one day to help the survivor's family...another of our stations is holding a 12-day toy drive marathon to collect toys and donations for the needy, they are going to break the Guinness record for most toys raised in one event.  Like Buffalo being painted as the city of eternal winter and hopeless economic despair, Las Vegas is painted as a cold, sterile place (I plead guilty to doing just that) yet when you get down to it, the city called Tinsel Town has a huge heart and has always stepped up to the plate when needed.  I was wrong and I learn from my mistakes.  What we all can learn is that negative stereotypes need to be quashed and the in-fighting should cease. 

I'm coming back home to help in the city's rebound.  I miss Buffalo terribly and appreciate the many benefits the area has to offer--it's an uphill battle and there are no guarantees but personally, I will feel good in at least trying.  Take it from someone who has lived where the grass is supposed to be greener:  the grass has been replaced with rocks and desert landscaping due to the drought, and the economy is going to create hardships in the tourism industry once gasoline costs skyrocket.  I had hoped to be back by now, it's not for lack of jobs that has delayed me (I get 15-20 new position announcements every day in my inbox), it's partially due to the tanking housing market in Las Vegas (Nevada leads the nation in foreclosures) and the market is glutted with inventory.  That, and a couple of other factors have delayed my return but it hasn't stopped me from doing something positive to help rebuild Buffalo.  And I already have a job waiting for me as a partnet

Buffalo has a quality of life that can't be beat, it's people and the region offers so much that many take for granted.  We have a lot of negatives to overcome, this is not to say that it's all rosy and we need to ignore what's broken here.  Yeah, we need to listen to the realists but let's change our mindsets to possibly, just possibly, look to a future which has Buffalo rising.  I have an overwhelming feeling we will succeed, when the west and south runs out of water we're going to benefit from our natural assets.  Current trends towards green energy alternatives may make the moniker I coined "Green City of the Lakes" catch on.  That's just a few of the reasons I'm coming home.  And before you flame me or anyone who disagrees with your point of view, look at two things:  the name of this blog and what is written right above the "comments" box: "What do you think?" 

And posting while at work is bound to have typos (even though I used a word processor before posting): I have a job lined up as a partner in a locally-owned computer business.

Hospitable's comment seems to want it both ways - decrying mention of statistics here yet citing one in a false implication that Charlotte can't match Buffalo's $4 billion of proposed development projects.

find me $4 billion in projects going on in Charlotte

It's not even close. Charlotte has way more development, both proposed and in progress, than Buffalo. I'm not saying the development dollar total is the main way a city should be judged. But it shouldn't be brought up in a way that isn't true.

Lately many boosters seem giddy about the total number of proposed billions, however many it is - and which if I'm not mistaken includes a federal courthouse that's nice but won't create new permanent jobs, a casino that's good to have but probably close to a break even for our economy, and a City Tower that hopefully happens but who knows. All that's good, but they might be starting to fool themselves into thinking it means Buffalo is now having growth anywhere near comparable to what's ongoing in many growing cities. Nope.

Especially lagging is private sector growth around here compared to other places, and that's what makes population come or go. As Pundit's comment notes, Charlotte is over double our population now, both city and metro, and home to world headquarters of eight Fortune 500 companies. Buffalo has one, and just barely (M&T Bank at #496).

A good question is how did it get that way where they've been so much more sucessful than us to end up with eight F500 HQs and we have just barely one? Although we probably won't attract a company that huge any time soon, the same factors apply to our relative (un)desirability for companies of all sizes. And an even more important question, looking forward as George says to do - other than optimistic feelings, what exactly has changed to make anyone think those same factors aren't still firmly in place?

BuffaloBloviator - Thanks. It is not that often that someone wants to join my club. :-)

AtwaterLouse,

Why can't people enjoy a sense of spirit about Buffalo's prospects? Charlotte may have unstanched growth beyond anyone's dreams, but does that mean life is all good and fulfilling in Charlotte? That it's an interesting and textured city? Almost every person I know who has gone there wants to come back here if he/she could. You constantly warn people here about ignoring ominous statistics and trends for Buffalo, but you seem to want to ignore the intangibles about a place that are fundamental to people's experience of that place. All cities go up and all cities come down. At one time Buffalo was one of the richest, most business-centered cities in the country--back when Phoenix was a plain of dust and most people didn't know where Charlotte was.

You may judge a city's "success" only in terms of statistics and economics, but there is another dimension to our lives in this city. And I can tell you what has changed in Buffalo: people believe in and are proud of the city again, and that's not something one should rush to correct.

Eric - A generalized critique like that toward another commenter is almost always useless and at worst flame baiting. You and I obviously have different views, but so what? There's a wide range here and that's what BR owners of course hope for. They want as many visitors to their site as they can get.

But I'll take some quick stabs at what you put a question mark after, and in spirit of avoiding the too-frequent flame wars of late here I won't make any generalized critique about what you write here. I'll focus my reponse to your exact words in this comment only.

Why can't people enjoy a sense of spirit about Buffalo's prospects?

No reason they can't do that. When expressing spirit, if anybody decides to intermix claims of fact (such as wrong claim above about Char not having $4B in development) or suggestions (such as chiknlil above suggesting focus on self esteem), then they're inviting corrections and/or opinions pro or con. Nothing I write is ever intended to tell anybody what sense of spirit they should have about any prospects.

does that mean life is all good and fulfilling in Charlotte?

Of course not. It's not all good and fulfilling anywhere ever.

That it's an interesting and textured city?

That can't be a serious question. Clearly totally subjective. Apparently it's considered sufficiently interesting and textured by a fast growing number of people over the past few decades. No doubt others may disagree. --shrug-- (btw, I've no idea what 'textured' means, but answer would be same regardless)

Almost every person I know who has gone there wants to come back here if he/she could.

Please tell anyone who wants to come back here that I say they definitely should hurry back.

you seem to want to ignore the intangibles about a place that are fundamental to people's experience of that place

It should be self evident that intangibles have importance, and that no city - not Buffalo, not Charlotte, not Erie, not Raleigh - has all positive intangibles or all negative intangibles. People shouldn't need to write something so obvious just to ensure you don't claim they "want to ignore" it. I could claim you "want to ignore" many things you don't mention, but I'd be equally ridiculous if I did. There's many things I don't mention, and many you don't. But there's no logical basis for either to claim the other "wants to ignore" anything.

(or "seems to" want to ignore anything).

And I agree totally with this line you wrote:

At one time Buffalo was one of the richest, most business-centered cities in the country

The questions involve moving back in that direction.

Atwater Louse,

I think you've read a bit too much into what were genuine questions about your comments. There was no thought of flame baiting, though I am not sure what that means. And I am sorry you think my comments useless--they were only meant to add a dimension to this conversation which seemed totally absent.

I explicitly wanted to make a "general" critique of your tone and language because their own very general mood in this thread seems unconstructive and at times just sour. Aside from the rhetoric of "nope" and "way more," there is an implicit petulance in your pointing out, vaguely, that "many growing cities" have "way more" development that our $4 billion. Or in your stating the obvious--that we have only one Fortune 500 company here now, for example--as if we should all suddenly sober up our enthusiasm for recent promising rumbles in our economic engine. What's the point? We all know the sacred facts of who's beating whom. But this post and ensuing thread were confirmation that people in Buffalo now believe in their city and are still proud of it, as they should be. For a city as misrepresented and slighted as Buffalo has been, I think those feelings are critically important to our psyche.

You claim to recognize the intangibles that make Buffalo such an appealing place to live--perhaps you do, but there is no evidence of that in your writing. And as far as my questioning the flavor, authenticity, and patina of Charlotte; yes indeed, a subjective view but one that I have found corroborated by every conversation I have had about Charlotte with ex-pats and re-pats. Again, intangibles, the unseen, the essence of places--it doesn't come from the statistics. And despite a grossly stupid media's attempts to rank everything in this country, I don't think most Americans view their towns and cities in terms of a race to see who is "kicking ass."

Your comments are welcome, as are anyone's (as you say). But I know when something is constructive and when something is deliberately uncharitable...and that's what your comments on this thread seem to be. For me at least.

Eric - I was referring to when pairs of people or factions sometimes keep attacking each other's general outlooks back and forth, sometimes devolving to personal level. It's happened here a few times recently and seems pointless when people argue who's subejctive outlook is generally better. Subjective is subjective.

IMHO, it makes for better reading and exchanges of ideas if people just do the best they can expressing their own outlook, and if criticizing anyone else's comments do it on something specific - not just tell them that any subjective general philosophies or opinions are "wrong". I respect that you have very strong views even though in some ways they differ from mine.

as if we should all suddenly sober up our enthusiasm for recent promising rumbles in our economic engine

Ease up on the "all suddenly" b.s. That's inventing things I never said. Do I think _some_ people here _sometimes_ overstate things - misleadingly or just plain saying something wrong that gets repeated over and over until or unless someone corrects them? No, that never happens. :-)

What's the point?

The "point" was in response to something a previous commenter had written that struck me inaccurate and misleading about a city starting with 'C' and that $4 billion. I didn't bring up city C in this thread. Yes sometimes when I see something said that looks inaccurate, misleading, or dishonest I'll comment about it. Maybe it's not worthwhile on this blog where so many participants focus much more on feelings and heartfelt truthiness as Colbert would mock them for. However to answer your question, that was the point.

You complain about me citing positive info about another city when responding to something I thought misleading, and yet you feel free to criticize that same other city quite sharply. That doesn't seem consistent to me. But the good news is, you don't need to be consistent. That inconsistency critique was one example of what I don't complain about. I'll leave it totally up to you do decide how consistent you want to be. Last i'll say about that.

You claim to recognize the intangibles that make Buffalo such an appealing place to live--perhaps you do, but there is no evidence of that in your writing. And as far as my questioning the flavor, authenticity, and patina of Charlotte; yes indeed, a subjective view but one that I have found corroborated by every conversation I have had about Charlotte with ex-pats and re-pats.

We've nothing to argue about intangibles, except in addition to Buffalo having some real positive intagibles I agree with the statement that all places to live have some mix positive and negative intangibles. To me, your wording implies Buffalo has some monopoly or near monopoly on positive intangibles and no negaitve intangibles. If that's your point we'll agree to disagree.

I don't think most Americans view their towns and cities in terms of a race to see who is "kicking ass."

I never said anything about "most Americans", and my "kicking ass" was in context:...kicking Buffalo's and Upstate's behinds over past few decades in economic expansion, corporate growth, and luring people

A lot of Buffalonians on BR or elsewhere often fret over relative weakness in the career/job market here. Maybe you don't, but you did refer to friends now in NC who you said want to come back "if they could". The "kicking ass" was clearly referring to the realms that affect the "if they could". (If you ask me again at this point if I'm saying anything about anything else such as quality of life, or texture, or interestingness, or tapestry, or which cities have four seasons, or intangibles, I will seriously test out that "Avoid User" feature.)

I really don't see any further point in Q&A. I've no doubt even in this reply there's dozens of things you disagree with and asking me a bunch more questions won't get us anywhere. If you want to disagree with my opinions or general outlook, go for it, people do all the time. If there's a specific question with a direct quote in context, I'll reply to that, but I think we've gone as far as we can.

Thanks for the comments Atwater. I respect your views, but I stand by my criticism. The debate is healthy.