PETER!,This design is beautiful and sophisticated. I would'nt be surprised if this building WAS praised by the critics in your precious New York Times. If they don't like it, f*ck'em! Let Buffalo be Buffalo and forget what all of the outsiders say. If Minneapolis and other cities want to buy into the academic over-hyped flavor of the month styles thats their business. I'm glad that Steel didn't comment. We all know that he is from Chicago anyways!
Build it!
i like it, wonder if there's a pic that shows how it'll look as part of the skyline
An interesting Image of Erie Street before it was chopped up:
http://www.llmhs.org/02/eriestdetail3.html
Image that but with new developments of 3-5 story mixed use buildings where all those parking lots are at the Erie Basin. They can have their condo's give us our public street and waterfront access.
I know that everyone is going to complain about the design of the town homes and that the tower has raised burms and secludes itself from the street but over all this isn't a bad project. At the absolute worst it'll bring some more people to the water front and add a nice boost to the construction economy at $30 million. I'll give the project a B.
Why is Steel not commenting? I would like to know what Steel thinks about the tower's architecture.
Absolutely awesome!!! Now this is what I call development!
The only thing lacking in Waterfront Village is an assortment of neighborhood services type retail. Surprised that there isn't more of a clamor from the homeowners there.
It's about time we start luring the money makers from the burbs back to the city. Everything is cyclical. 150 years ago the wealthy flocked to Delaware, Linwood and the surounding neighborhoods. The wealthy then left for Willimsville, Orchard Park and Amherst. With the right atmosphere, which the waterfront condo has, we can expect to see a resurgence of class back downtown. Keep it going Carl
there are 5 towers just like that going up all over this one street in suburban maryland. we could definitley do better. the townhomes aren't as bad though.
but at the end of the day this project is a win for downtown buffalo and the waterfront
whatever, erie basin marina is a suburban waste land where public access is a 10' wide bike path against railroad track (although i do like railroads- this paticular one is fenced in howerever which really is a bummer- hard to watch the maple leaf) and there is little civic value remaing here. so build whatever garbage you want. lets just hope the outer harbor is a bit more enlightened.
big picture: plan for continuous public waterfront access, street grid beyond with mixed use. Erie Basin Mairina too far gone.. so WHATEVER!!!!
sportsroadtrip...I was wondering the same thing over the summer. You would think a neighborhood convenience store(Wilson Farms??) and a small restaurant or two(in addition to Shanghai Reds) would open up, but I don't know what parcels of land are available down there.
In reading the comments I see why nothing ever gets done in this city. Someone plans to develop the city and all you read is know it alls bitching about what they are doing. Typical Buffalo attitude.......
There will still be a patch of land between this new tower and Admiral's Walk... room for another building?
It will be VERY interesting to see how the Buffalo condo "boom" that is coming in two-to-three years (First Amherst's place across from Sidway, Clover's potential building between that building and the Ansonia Center, Cobblestone Lofts, Statler, Bashar's potential tower) will play out.
The overwhelming majority proposed seem to be in the low $300,000's to the near-million dollar mark. I love it... I just hope they can fill them up. It would be nice if a couple of these developments followed the lead of the old St. Mary's School condos, and offered those of "lesser" means condos in the $100-200,000 range. I get the sense Buffalo has many more residents who could potentially buy in that range than in the higher price ranges.
I'm with roadtrip. The Inner Harbor is shaping up nicely. Now if only they could get rid of that ugly suburban-style office park...
Wonderful, wonderfuil, wonderful. The tower and the whole project represent REAL progress. One $30 million dollar project that almost single handedly matches the total of all the old loft conversions BR likes to tout ad nauseum. Bravo. Now lets just hope that the shovels go in the ground when planned. We have had enough delayed projects for one decade already
mediocre would be an understatement. those who are satisfied with this junk probably didn't see the other proposal for this site that was far superior. thank tony masiello for corrupting this process and gift wrapping this one for his buddy (read: deep pocketed contributor) Carl. we missed a chance for something special. let's hope the brown administration isn't as wont to sell us out.
Its amazing that a team of architects would come up with this building. It looks like a child's idea of what a tower should look like. I'm just stunned. I'm glad developers are developing but if your are going to spend the money and leave your mark on a city , you might as well find some good designers. Yeesh
How long are we gonna keep talking about developing the same piece of land - this project was supposed to start last January.
Now it is gonig to start this January.
Now the architecture is not good enough.
Build the thing already - it looks fine and will be fine.
Wish I were Carl P. - he's got this town on lock down.
WZAS- Good eye. The vacant portion between the new tower and Admiral's Walk is part of Ellicott's development site. They're keeping their options open on what gets built there- original plans called for an apartment tower- but if these units sell quickly, expect additional for-sale product. Nothing official from Ellicott, just my speculation.
I agree with you- there is quite a bit of high-end product coming (yet it is less than 200 units) but the three (Waterfront Place, CityTower, Gates Circle) will be chasing somewhat different buyers. A developer bringing units online at $150-$225 is likely to do very well.
While it's certainly true that this project does not make an architectural statement, I see tax money..........Yahoo !!
Just what we need, more residential units when ones all across the city are rotting away.
What I would like to see is some actual thought put into the development of the waterfront. Not the thought that "hey people are moving to Clarence. Let's put Clarence on the waterfront." Way to go, geniuses.
Is there a protest I can join to stop this? Hasn't anyone read Jane Jacobs?
As others have expressed, this will fit in well with what is there.
The Erie Basin is just a misguided approach to waterfront development. Seeing it was born back in the 70' 80's when suburban development was though to be an answer to urban decay, we can at least understand why it looks the way it does. Pass by one the 190 and you are lucky to see a soul wandering around down there. Kind of like any suburban subdivision. They are desolate places where people hide in thier homes and back yards. BU tthe city wanted to attract buyers, and at that time you pretty much had to offer an isolated place to get them to invest. But one passes by on the interstate and hardly notices it, not even thinking about stopping.
Contrast it with a livelier area like Elmwood. People roaming about, activity at street level, and you can peek in all the stores/buisneses as you drive by. Its a place where you want to get out of your car and see whats going on and experience it.
We can only pray that the Foot of Main St. and the outer harbor follow the Elmwood model over the Waterfront "Village" model. A place where people drive by and see action, wanting to take the time to be part of it, either immediately, or planning for another day when they have time.
Build this tower and put a bookend on what could have been so much more.
I think some of you may be over looking this projects proximity to the "proposed" erie canal retail and residential developments. All one has to do is look at the article posted a couple days ago about the developments that are proposed to go in the naval museum and under the skyway. This would solve the retail and commercial space question/problem. Hey it probably won't happen but an aspiring planner has to dream that once in a great while something will go as planned.
An interesting Image of Erie Street before it was chopped up:
Image that but with new developments of 3-5 story mixed use buildings where all those parking lots are at the Erie Basin. They can have their condo's give us our public street and waterfront access.
More 25-year old 'designs' for the townhouses. Ack. And what makes it a "village"? It's a bunch of housing, huddled between the Thruway & the water, and absolutely NOTHING else. I'd almost feel sorry for the people who buy down there, except that the sale prices keep rising. Can't argue with money, it seems !
funny all these demands for retail in this project. It actually was a stipulation in the original RFP, but somewhere along the line Carl Paladino dropped that element. Other odd part about it, was that the bid that lost out, by Norstar Development, had retail as a central part and actually was looking to urbanize the village with a proper urban scale. Unfortunately, Tony Massielo had to slip one last favor in for his goombah Carl before he left office and again, politics as usual inhibit Buffalo from truly progressing.
I'm loving the tower design, but the low rises townhomes pretty much suck...very retro and tired. I'd rather see more high rises built downtown, no more suburbon style sub-divisions.
Will this monstrosity have a moat around it to keep all the soccer moms safe or at least keep the black knight away? Ugh.....where have all the architects gone?
I think we can all agree the townhomes are rather dull looking. I'm sure they'll have wonderful interiors, but the exteriors are rather drab.
As for the tower, I don't think it looks too shabby at all. Am wondering what critics of the tower design would rather see? Maybe post a link or two to pictures of other towers?
I agree with Kirk one hundred per cent. While these condos and restorations projects sound nice, if no one can find a job in the city who is going to buy them? This town basically consists of two major industries, banking and medical. If someone doesn't have experience or a degree in either you are SOL. In addition to building some condos on the waterfront, try to lure corporations to set up satelite offices in the city. More corporations an businesses equals more jobs which equals more housing and people to move into the city. On another note, where are these ppl going to shop? Where is the closest supermarket? If these condos retail at 500k they must have money. Why not attract big stores like IKEA , Urban Outfitters and H & M downtown? How about Target or a grocery store like Price Chopper in the middle of the city? Make these part of the reconstruction effort.
Some people crack me up. You bitch about the "vinyl victorians" being built on the east side. Then when someone comes along with a design for some very nice brick townhouses, you bitch about those.
I think Carl's new waterfront apartment building is beautiful and everyone should shut there mouth and bitch about other worse off things afflicting this city.
There are no stores or actual neighborhood becuase these townhomes, condos are all for uber rich people who drive out to Amherst to do all their shopping, sure they might go to a restaurant now and then but thats about it. They all have their own parking lots / garages so there is no incentive to walk.
I dont mind the tower or even the town home designs, in and of themselves they are fine the problem the overall area has not been thought about as a mixed use place. I would love to see some first floor retail or even restaurant options mixed into this area. Ya know, something that more then the condo owners could use- oh wait, they don't want anyone else to go there. They have to protect their investment so you will never see anything there open to the public. Might as well just build the gate @ Erie Street now.
There is actually a fantastic plan / design for the redesign of Erie Street. it would reconnect it from Main to the water, and straighten it, openning up a ton of potential development sites. I will give you these developments as is...as long as you let the CITY and the PUBLIC have Erie Street back! :) (maybe I will try to find an image of the proposed Erie Street realignment)
You like that line, don't you, 'fedup'? You post it at least once a week. Obviously you can't think of another one.
Not really b*tching, Ken, just saying that they look like old factories. They do seem to sell no matter how crappy they look; there really is no accounting system for 'taste'. :)
The new waterfront tower and townhome designs are very consistent to what is already in Waterfront Village. These final projects will balance things out and bring the entire Erie Basin Marina area into a cohesive community. All of these available units will likely sell quickly since there are no other waterfront options proposed at this time.
I do believe that the developer who is able to build condo's in the lower end range downtown or on the edge will experience a fast sale surge. The Buffalo market is waiting.
Overall, the final build-out of Waterfront Village is good news. It only helps feed everything else that is either already underway or proposed downtown.
I thought the new QUEEN CITY HUB plan was to incorporate new development to good urban landscape and fit in with the rest of downtown- Not to continue building stand alone projects such as these to isolate from the rest of society. No space for retail, restaurants, or other services, when people stroll along the Marina, they have to look at how the "Other Half" lives in these dingy 1980's tacky brown colored spaces.
You people are very weird. We can support development and still criticize the specifics like the architecture. This doesnt mean that we are standing in the way of progress. No one should feel threatened. This blog is not that influential! Get over yourselves. This building is sort of tacky. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I have no issue with the tower at all...
It looks like something that belongs on the water, and I think it has potential to look really nice. What I don't understand, and what worries me is the townhomes.
Real estate is a fairly predictable game. Why do towers and skyscrapers exist? Because they need to build up because there is not enough land.
If there was a really strong demand for waterfront and downtown housing, the entire site would have been a tower, or at least certainly more than townhomes.
The problem is, if this goes off, the people who buy the townhomes are going to make a killing on their investment, while the tower will be slightly less...or the townhome idea may really hinder everything and people will lose money...
As for services, the issue is that the access to downtown sucks...it really isn't that far, but it is in the current street grid.
Also we need to make a decision on the skyway and soon...
"|Why is Steel not commenting? I would like to know what Steel thinks about the tower's architecture."
I will presume to guess his reaction: It looks like a pile of Lego, and there should be a ban on computer-generated elevations. That's my reaction, anyway
To all you people who hate the design---why does EVERYTHING that is planned to be built here have to be an "architectural gem" or "world class"? Many people who comment here think that every single building has to be special. There is nothing wrong with this design. Why can't a building just sometimes function simply for the purpose as it is intended, without all the bells and whistles?
Sickofitall - the reason they don't have retail is that they don't want you hanging around their neighborhood.
nice development idea! Crappy c. 1980's architecture! Since this city is stuck in the 80's anyway...THEY CAN"T LOSE!!! I'm Talkin' proud!
Hey, have any of you found anymore info on Ellicto Dev. Office Tower on Court Street? Is it expected to have construction start this spring, with the condo tower?
I really don't mind either of the designs and no one is saying this project shouldn't happen. The concern is that developments like this, while adding to the population and tax base (very good things), miss the boat when it comes to creating a lively city. MJ said it well above. This area of the waterfront is now a bedroom community where everyone must travel and because of the lack of connections to anything around them, they all drive. Ride your bike through there sometime you never see anyone walking the streets.
Will it fill in a bit of what is left of that area, sure, add people and money to the waterfront, yeah. I say let it happen, this area is already a gated community, BUT lets understand that this isn't what should happen on all of the waterfront. Erie Street's realignment, the outer and inner harbors should be places that welcome everyone not just the rich condo owners.
Marko P.,
Just speculating here but I would suspect the developer put certain financial restraints on what the architects could do. I understand your not being thrilled with the "Ft. Lauderdale" look. I've yet to see a great-looking building clad in pre-cast concrete.
EV Resident - I do like that LIne , Yes I do indeed. Did I strike a nerve? Hope So. I like it --- just like you keep tossing out you are an EV Resident. Like that makes you so special. A cut above the rest.
vivian...they're going to be pretty prominent on the waterfront portion of the skyline. so it goes beyond just "if you don't like it, don't live there"
I love this tower and can't wait to see how it will enhance the skyline. The brand-new Healthnow HQ Building on one side of the Thruway, with its sexy curved glass wall, and then a new residential tower on the other side. And imagine, these were just a couple of empty lots. The new construction is going to make a good impression on people passing through the area on the I-190, and Buffalo can use all the help with its image that it can get.
Spandrel,
You said, "Pay attention to the sidewalk level first, folks, because that is where the vast majority of you experience this or any proposed building?"
Wrong.
Most of us will "experience" this building while driving by on an elevated highway at 60 mph. You won't even be anywhere near it to experience it at ground level. So you don't have to worry about what it is going to look like close up. Only the people with half a million dollars to spend on a luxury condo need to worry about that.
Oh yeah, and hundreds of more residents added to downtown's population, a much needed boost to Buffalo's tax base, and lots of construction jobs. I think this calls for champagne!
Since this is city owned property, all of us city dwellers (as tax payers) certainly have a right to comment on the project. There will never be consensus but, bemoaning all the negative comments regarding differing vision for the waterfront isn't useful either. The problem with old Buffalo was that no one cared about what happened enough and didn't do anything to make it better. Now people are starting to care and at least speak up. This causes disagreement on the details. If we now turn caring into action, we as a city won't have people whining "no wonder nothing ever happens" (a quote I have seen or heard at least a hundred times). I plead with everyone to have a more civil discourse and then actually go out and get something done that betters the future of Buffalo. That goes for whiners of all stripes!
If you're not happy about this building going up, then you better ask your shrink to adjust your prozak levels.
"To all you people who hate the design---why does EVERYTHING that is planned to be built here have to be an "architectural gem" or "world class"?"
How many buildings have been built in Buffalo in the last 10 years that you would call world class? When was the last time that a building in Buffalo was showcased in Architectural Record or reviewed in the New York Times?
Minneapolis has had a few:
+Minneapolis Central Library--Cesar Pelli +Walker Art Center---Herzog and DeMeuron +new Guthrie Theater--Jean Nouvel +Weisman Art Museum--Frank Gehry
The way that the developments in that area have been integrated into the city, they might as well be in Dunkirk, they do very little for the city. Any single loft development has had a bigger effect.
p.s., on the design...have these folks EVER been to Toronto??? i thought they stopped building condos that look like that back in the early 90's. This is the architectural equivalent of hammer pants.
http://www.bubbygram.com/performers/mchammersmall.jpg http://static.flickr.com/41/118582320_ad497f2556.jpg
"It's about time we start luring the money makers from the burbs back to the city. Everything is cyclical. 150 years ago the wealthy flocked to Delaware, Linwood and the surounding neighborhoods. The wealthy then left for Willimsville, Orchard Park and Amherst. With the right atmosphere, which the waterfront condo has, we can expect to see a resurgence of class back downtown.
First off, what you just mentioned is not cyclical. Wealthy people leaving for Delaware and then moving farther away is not cyclic. That's about as straight and narrow an example of white flight as you can get. They will not come back because an isolated condo is built on the waterfront. They are quite comfortable in their McMansions. What we need to do is recruit new wealth and that starts with building up the economy, not lining the pockets of the rich politicians with more property taxes. We need a commercial/cultural mixed use center that people will want to move to. That's what happened with Elmwood Village.
Encourage new businesses to move downtown. Why do you think Buffalo's politicians have been swinging off Bass Pro's balls? They know retail will attract people. You don't see people clamoring to turn the Aud into a condo.
This project is the perfect example of how not to build up a waterfront.
If one could tear down Waterfront Village and start from scratch, we could most likely all agree that this would be an entirely different product.
I could envision gateway style promenade boulevards connecting to downtown, a "village square" with restaurants and neighborhood services, more mid rise buildings and allocation of some public space for waterfront view and access.
That being said, what's done is done, and the proposal displayed here will blend in well with what currently exists.
What exactly is so wrong with "Ft Lauderdale" architecure? Some of these Florida cities have kick ass residential complexes and skyscrapers, stuff we would kill for here.
To the naysayers I ask this... why are you quick to tear this apart, yet quick to launch skyrockets and toss confetti every time some 3000 sf old building is being rehabbed for three apartments?
Welcome downtown, buyers! Welcome downtown, renters! Let's keep news like this and investment capital coming!!!
Like No Money No Style said I thought this project had already begun last year? Let's get it started. I just hope the white areas of the bldg aren't plain old concrete slabs.
When oh when will we get renderings that show buildings from the ground up? How many of us will ever be hovering in a helicopter at cornice level, looking at this building the way it appears above? Pay attention to the sidewalk level first, folks, because that is where the vast majority of you experience this or any proposed building. This one is a virtual blank wall at ground level. That should be illegal.
This is definately the best project planned ever in the downtown waterfronts recent history, finally a beautiful, post modernist high rise with brick and stone facades rather than the cookie cutter drab painted concrete of some of the earlier high rises in Buffalo. This is an outstanding well designed project both the high rise tower and the townhouses are very well done. Lets build this entire proposed project without fail and as for you critics who are bemoaning this plan, you are narrow-minded and backward and you need to get a life. It is large scale projects like this that will help attract more people into Buffalo.
Who gies a crap what all you negative critics think when most of you don't even have a pot to piss in. Like oh yeah, I'm going to spend 30 mil on building a codo but first I'm going to seek approval from someone who can't even afford the doorknob,
Actually. Carl....they are still building high rises like this and much worse in Toronto. The entire Toronto waterfront, a pretty much unmitigated disaster, sprouts a new one of these about every six months.
It's good news from a develoment and population standpoint; it's bad news as an indicator of the level of architectural thinking we're going to get downtown. I don't think we can be too sensitive about the kind of building that we allow on the waterfornt; it's a one shot deal. Once you build up the waterfront and veil the waterview, it's done...forever. They don't tear down waterfront buildings. I think Buffalo's waterfront could be so beautiful, but this kind of office park look can quickly swarm over and obscure all vistas, leaving a synthetic and stiff residential area that functions pretty much as a countryclub on the water. I'm glad to see more building, but I think there are far better visions out there for this very precious slice of vista.
I've seen worse.
I've seen better.
At least it's not hideous.
Maybe the real thing will be a lot better than the rendering.
It's not half bad...
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