Thanks for the kind words, WCP my friend, but you know me. I'm hardly a saint! :)

Much of the east side is poor and frankly, shell shocked, by the overwhelming amount of demolition-by-neglect that surrounds them. Much of the destruction due to vacancy and vandalism needs to be demolished but there are so many buildings that can and should be saved. For a reminder, please take a look at the slideshow that Chris Byrd and I did two years ago:

http://broadwayfillmorealive.org/media/give.wmv

As we celebrate success at the Livery, countless beautiful and historic structures slowly decay on the east side, with only a few of us seeming to care:

http://broadwayfillmorealive.org/2.0/2008/07/18/polish-union-hall-update/

congratulations for a job well done..

ok, so how has the city or the public learned from this debate. Can we start a database of worthy but neglected buildings. This I feel should be done outside of government oversight because political agendas and personal friends influence everything down there. How do we start this?

While Tim does live in the neighborhood of the Livery he was not in the forefront of Save the Livery, and the other Preservation organizations in town (PresCo, Landmark Society) were MIA as far as I know. This effort was lead by savvy, committed citizens who where able to tap into collective frustration with the incompetence manifest in the Inspections Department with respect to this and other properties that are allowed to fall apart before our eyes while their owners (in many cases very wealthy and connected people) are not held accountable.

As far as where folks live: it's where their heart is that's most important! For some time now I've volunteered with preservation groups and initiatives in Buffalo and western New York, and not once has anyone checked my ID to see where I live.

Disinvestment in Buffalo is because of our a regional factioning that has been happening for years. Consequences stop at municipal borders. Easy to ignore a problem when it is perceived to not affect your own life. Wheatfield, Clarence etc etc all the same. I don't want mmiller to feel too angered because unlike most people he does make a HUGE effort to promote and care for an under loved section of the city. But he is .001% of the population.

Until there is a regional approach to school, policing etc etc. People won't care about the east side, Riverside or anywhere until their lives and their dollars are somehow linked to its survival. Anyone else remember the billboard painted on the Genesee block of downtown right for all the suburban commuters to see coming in for work... "Suburb Sprawl kills cities, [and the environment] thank you for doing your part."

1. Anybody who wants to criticize mmiller for living in the suburbs is missing a big forrest for some small trees.

2. That said, I've gotta take issue with the idea that attention was "given" to the Livery but is denied to other areas. In my experience, attention is never given -- it's won as the result of a lot of work. And on neighborhhod-level preservation isssues, that work is typically done by neighborhood folks, particularly in the early stages.

3. So, honest question -- are there groups of east side neighbors coalesced around saving particular neighborhood landmarks? I know that Torke does a lot of work beating that drum, and so do the folks at BF Alive, but their work brings attention. Are there other efforts that are going unnoticed or unreported?

Nicely said Orlanmon! Mike Miller is a saint. Is Buffalo in any position to turn its back on all his hard work because he lives outside of the city. Move on to real issues already.

WCP, Sacramento, CA

Knowing someone that works with many east side residents I feel too confident saying that the majority of them are happy to see the buildings get demolished. Many residents of the east side see the buildings as havens for crime and would rather take a vacant lot over an empty building. I don't want to paint a broad brush but I don't think many people there feel that historic architecture is worth keeping when they are struggling to keep food on the table and the water bills paid.

This is where I think stories like the livery, webb or some reuses in less vibrant areas is sorely needed to show residents that if they hold owners accountable, and a building finds a reuse that is a much better situation for the neighborhood than taking 5 buildings down. Vacant lots don't spur investment or make people want to live anywhere, especially in the city. We need to let people know that those buildings are more of an asset than a problem and saving them can bring in the people, money, jobs etc that they need or desire so much.

Charger, what you say is true in the sense that the Save The Livery campaign took ownership of getting engineering work done (to ascertain options), the legal work, and the publicity - rather than leaving it in the hands of others. That said, they did draw a great deal of support from folks in the larger preservation community - you can see many of them in the rally photos (on SaveTheLivery.com). About Tim Tielman, I saw him at the site at least twice, myself.

I was especially impressed with Councilmember David Rivera, who was at the site every time I was there - he was often working the phone trying to help find solutions while on site, and I believe (and hope) his voice will carry a great deal of weight in reforming the processes of dealing with negligent building owners, code violations, and inspections.

And that reform needs to happen! There was discussion among folks attending Buffalo Homecoming about the failure in the past to take advantage of these moments of loss - or near-loss - of a key building to bring about change--despite past promises. Will things be different this time--? Could this very impressive and effective campaign which captured everyone's attention develop into a citywide effort to preserve historic and architecturally significant buildings from demolition by neglect--? I'd say that folks - and organizations - who think it can will now have an unprecedented opportunity to step up to the plate and make it so.

blackrocklifer, not just good guys, UBER good guys--and gals! I wasn't more than marginally involved with this effort, but from what I saw I couldn't be more impressed with this group, and what they accomplished.

Regarding the engineering work, the Neighbors for Save the Livery still have a substantial bill to pay, which they're raising funds to cover. Although the celebration tomorrow is FREE TO ALL, you may want to show up with something to put in the kitty.

This update from Catherine Herrick of Save the Livery (for details, see SaveTheLivery.com):

Every donation will help, and we will be offering some special small tokens of gratitude for every donation of $20 or more starting on Sunday, July 20th at our little [I hope it's BIG! - RaChaCha] celebration. I hope to see you there!!! And thank you so much for your commitment to SaveTheLivery!!!

As the late Eddie Meath (a famous on-air community fund raiser in My Fair City) used to say: bring your pennies and your quiet money.

mmiller --

Remember, though, that the Livery campaign was primarily a neighborhood-led campaign. It'd seem that a similar campaign by folks in an east side neighborhood might be similarly effective, as those areas are the mayor's power base.

StephenJames716,

About the Psych Center (Richardson-Olmsted Complex), some of the money is currently being used for some emergency repairs, while the historic structures report is being finished to guide the rest of the work. The historic structures report is over half done. There are occasional public meetings to give people updates and get input - the last one was held in April, with minutes available on the website: www.richardson-olmsted.com (click on Documents). If you want to get on the e-mail list, click on Contact, and send a note to Monica Pellegrino-Faix, the project coordinator.

I share your frustration about the lack of clear visible indicators of progress at the site. I was one of those commenting at the last public meeting, endorsing the idea of regular guided tours of the site (outside the perimeter fence for now, and inside at least one of the buildings as soon as possible) to build interest in the project and talk about what's going on. The folks at the Campaign For Greater Buffalo are especially interested in that, so if that idea catches your fancy you may want to touch base with them and add your voice.

RaChaCha585

StephenJames716,

An additional update on the Richardson-Olmsted Complex, in case you check back in: word from Monica is that the next public meeting will be on August 12 at 6PM at BECHS. All are invited!

RaChaCha585

"Yes some of us don't live in the city but we can still spend our money there if we choose and we can still support and admire Buffalo as well because we simply love the city; our apologies if we don't live there. Last year during Buffalo Lives many of the folks that I talked to during the event were from the burbs, specifically a couple from Clarence who decided to come out and help clean up West Ferry Street for four hours. Don't discount folks from the burbs or for that matter anyone anywhere who cares about Buffalo. Collectively we all make a difference regardless of how large or small are contribution is"

Orlannon, very true and I would never talk bad about those who choose to come in the city to help, eat out etc. But at the same time you can't look at the problems of disinvestment of the city and say that the suburbs and the dispersion of wealth away from the traditional city core as a main cause for such investment. For every 1 person who is fighting the saintly fight like mmiller, there are 10 people with their backs turned away.

I am deeply hearted by the fact that there are many more people suburban and city folk alike willing to take stands and better our community. Many more than while growing up. So don't take my comments as a one brush fits all. But historical momentum isn't something we can ignore as irrelevant.

To mmillers point about the East Side. Two properties will be sold Saturday morning, just behind the new Artspace property. While looking at the properties that will be sold, I was a little surprised that the Artspace grounds, around back, don't appear to have been cut this year.

For investors to begin 'dabbling' on that side of Main, they need some reassurance that Artspace, and the new project in the Packard building are going to be a success. Seeing the Artspace property in such disarray gives one pause as to how that property is being managed.

The good guys win for once

what about the psych center?! it is on state owned grounds and is a national historic landmark! what happened to all the $$ that was set aside for it's restoration? all I see when walking around it is the fences that keep going up around parts that are falling in on itself.

Wizardofza, no, I don't. I live in Wheatfield, but I think you already know that. It's certainly been no secret.

Colin, yes it was and it also happens to be in the area where most of the prominent preservationists, like Tim Tielman, are. The demographics and environments of the two neighborhoods are as different as apples and oranges. You can't really compare them.

More people than just those in the Livery's neighborhood jumped into the public outcry for it to be saved. My point is that the same attention is not given to endangered structures on the east side. Not even close.

stephenjames,

You can see 30M of the 100M being used to build the new modern art building on the historic grounds.

We need to keep the momentum going. What up next......SaveTheGreystone, SaveTheSummit(918 Main) ?