"who are overpaid, have cars provided for them on the dole, take second jobs while milking disability , and who simply fail year after year in combating violent crime"

These points may or may not be true. But they're not especially relevant to a discussion of whether this technology is a good or bad thing. And it's plain to see that this technology would be useful in fighting violent crime. Catching car thieves and people with outstanding warrants with relatively little effort seems like a useful strategy.

first id just like to say that i think this is a good thing, sure if your car gets hit it will be covered thanks to no-fault, unless you dont have collision insurance. and dont forget that you have to pay your deductible even though you were sitting at a light and this person with an unregistered, uninsured, car hits you from behind. (i only know this from experience) Second: lightofthemoon, the repair shop should have told you of the exemption to emissions inspection if the cost of the parts is more than a certain amount and also the car manufacturer is required to warranty the emissions stuff for some insane amount like 8 years or somthing like that. If the people cant register, insure, and have a car inspected like the rest of the population has to then why shouldnt they get caught? Inspections are about emissions and SAFETY. I worked in a repair shop for a long time and I saw some of the cars that came in for inspection. Especially problems with brake lines and brakes themselves. These are the people slamming on their brakes because they didnt notice you stopped to turn left. States like florida that dont have inspections will immediately write you a $150 ticket if you have one brake light bulb out. If you have one out here in ny you have til sundown of the next day to prove that you got it fixed and you dont get a ticket. Depew police dept has a policy that when they are at a red light they must run the plate of the car in front of them manually. I have a friend that got caught because of that and i didnt feel bad for him at all. Why should i pay my 50 bucks every two years for registration and 21 every year for inspection and god knows what for insurance when somebody could drive around for nothing. If i could tell that somebody didnt have their car registered id report it to the police myself!

Just goes to show that the full police state is not far off.

Holy Big Brother. They're going to catch a lot of people

either way you feel about this issue, it has been a great discussion by all!!!

Just one more reason for them not to get out of their vehicles!

estreet- as i stated in an earlier post the states without inspections, such as florida will write you a $150 ticket if you have a bulb out. They just leave it up to the people to inspect their cars to be safe. And of course they dont have to keep their roads clear with a product that eats their cars. Just be happy that you dont live in PA, part of their inspection is that you are not allowed to have a rust hole in any part of your car. Half of the cars in NY wouldnt pass a PA inspection! NY has a pretty easy inspection compared to a lot of other states. The problem is that people take their cars to dishonest shops like the midases or monroes and they are charging people $800 for a brake job that takes $150 in parts and an hour labor

The people arent innocent if they are getting caught, as i said before you should know all the rules and regulations of driving in NYS before you do. Which is why you are tested on them. Everything about inspections, insurance, and registration of a car is in the nys drivers manual. Granted some people may not have the money to have their car inspected because it needs a lot of work which is why when your car fails they print you out a list to why it failed. You keep this in your car until you get it inspected. Then getting pulled over is merely a nuisance. The cop should let you go without a ticket if you have that receipt. And maybe take your car elsewhere to have work done( $3000 sounds like a lot of money for emissions parts on a car that have a total value of 6 or $700. But then again, i cant diagnose a car over the computer...

If we don't have enough cops to respond to quality of life calls (which we DONT) then how are we going to combat crime the right way? If you look at how they lowered the crime rates in NYC , the city went after small crimes like littering, public urination, loud noise, etc. and that was a wake up call to those thinking of commiting the bigger crimes and you you know what? .....iT WORKED. If we can get MORE officers (young and aggressive ones) to respond to these types of calls and to WALK THE BEAT (Start with Downtown) we can finally get back to the "quality of life" we once had in this city and really lower the crime here. Because, the truth is, most of do not feel safe walking alone on most of these city streets at any hour of the day, and that is sad and a good reason why many people would rather move and stay in the burbs or leave this area completly. I for one felt much safer in my Brooklyn nieghborhood at 3am than I do on most Buffalo streets at 3 in the afternoon.

Quality of Life is not solely measured by the abscence of urine stained sidewalks and the security of personal property but also of one's ability to be free of big government. The "liberal kooks," and their polar opposites can certainly come to an agreement on that point.

-" However, aren't we all taught that justice should be blind? "

Aren't we also taught taught that we are presumed innocent?

Holy Big Brother. They're going to catch a lot of people

1: its all about how much you are willing to pay to be safe. People drive unregistered cars beause they are not afraid of the consequences of doing it. They figure that they wont get caught and they are just taking advantage of the system. Its the same as stealing from a store. Why should they save up to buy that gps when they can just steal it and get it free. i have three cars and only two are registered. I will not take the plates off of one and put them on the unregistered car because i am afraid of the consequences. Some people arent because its pretty hard to get caught. This system is making it easier to catch the people who are stealing from the government.

2:And driving is a privilege not a right. Why do you think they take licenses away from drunk drivers and people who speed in work zones? Its just like anything else, say driving a cadillac instead of a chevy. You pay for the privilege to have heated seats and a heated steering wheel. And all the requirements for insurance and registration and inspections are right in the driving manual that is handed out to everybody going for their drivers permit. If somebody uses the excuse that they didnt know, why didnt they know? It was in the booklet that they studied to take the written test to get their permit!

I thought this technology was going to be based on RFID in either the inspection or registration sticker. Before you monkey with your license plate, you may want to take a razor to those stickers. Catching a radio signal would be a lot easier (less expensive) than a pivoting camera that detects what's a vehicle, and then locates the plate, then reads it. They may be telling us one thing, but employing a different technology all together.

Vanessa Thomas of the Buffalo News-

How do you make this statement;

"The number of murders in Buffalo dropped from 74 in 2006 to 54 last year, a 37 percent decrease.

without mentioning the 75% increase in murders in 2006 as opposed to 2005?

How do you allow the BPD to take credit (“We’re aggressively going after narcotics and aggressively going after the gangs,” he said. “This is the mayor’s plan for zero-tolerance and it costs a lot in overtime, but it’s working.”)when they simply got back to norm?

Jolopy - Spitzer? Very funny. You're right, it won't make people get insurance on their cars. But for those who choose not to get insurance, it will get their cars impounded. And your comparisons are a little silly - to say just get rid of driving altogether because it's dangerous and compare it to the police using technology to enforce existing laws is a bit of a stretch.

And I never said this will stop people from driving uninsured or safer. But it will help the police catch those who do and get their cars off of the road.

Ugh another one with the silly comparisons. I think you are over simplifying by calling registrations, inspections, and insurance excise taxes. This is a happy medium, this equipment has been added to some cars so that while they are on their regular patrols they automatically detect cars that are not inspected, insured, or registered. Hardly excessive or intrusive to those of us who comply with the laws of the state where we choose to live. Don't like that you have to get your car inspected? Move to Alabama or wherever they don't require one. Don't like that you have to register your car with the state? Take the bus.

And is it an epidemic? I have no idea... looks like we're going to find out though.

Also, every law and/or regulation isn't directly voted on by the people. That's what a representative government is for. For f*&% sake, is no one taught American Government anymore?

PaulBuffalo-

I suppose that is why certain jurisdictions have made such practices illegal. Radar detectors, license covers, etc. Because they just don't work

This always fun to throw in during conversations like these;

http://www.buffalonews.com/314/story/293735.html?appSession=525105745335702

OMG this is wonderful!!!I Why stop at scanning cars? I'll be first in line to get my chip surgery implanted so the police can better know what drugs I take, what food I eat, where I am located or for any other safety reason. My life is better off being monitored by a police officer than my own, makes total sense. They can tell if people are doing drugs and will know who it is, they can use the information from what I eat to tell me how healthy I am and if I'm at risk for any diseases, If I get lost they can find me like on star. This is great. They can also use this information to make my insurance cheaper because then they can share it with insurance companies to better equalize prices for risky patients. We could also get issued cameras to put in are houses so in case theres a fire the fire department can come quicker because it will randomly turn on and look in a house and if it sees a fire it notifies them. Wow I could go on and on. I also happy that they keep putting up cameras on the corners throughout the city, When someone does something bad we get to see it now because we all know cameras stop crime. Take for example banks, mini marts and malls. They never get robbed because theres cameras everywhere. I cant wait for the future................on a side note I will be living in my basement with aluminum foil on my head waiting for the space ship behind that asteroid to pick me up. haha sorry for this rant guys.

estreet, I was under the impression that if you have plates on your car then you need proper registration, inspection, and insurance - period.

I had an office on Elmwood where all of the Quality of Life crimes listed above took place at night. Problem is, no cop was going to get out of his car to do anything about it. (Hell, they wouldn't even come when called) But catch someone without NYS inspection in a brand new car in the midle of the day when the scum are sleeping...EASY MONEY!!! In fact, let's set up check points on the S-Curves (Lots of crime there) many hands, light work and all.

GDC-

Guliani's program stresed high crime areas following the theory that you are only as strong as your weakest link. If you have 50-60 murders a year in what amounts to 2 square miles of the city (East & West) it isn't going to matter if you have cops walking the beat in front of the Main Place Bldg.

We have plenty of cops, we simply have the wrong ones and they are managed foolishly. It seems to me an insane number of police are on duty during the day, especially during festivals (which means the entire summer), leaving no one minding the store when crimes more typically happen. Every problem I have near my Elmwood office happens at night, yet, call 911 and no one shows up. Wave down a cop, he tells you to call 911!

Plus, I have never seen cops walking a beat at night. I am not saying they should walk a beat at night in the Lower West Side or the Fruit Belt but they can certainly do Elmwood and Hertel. (They are admittedly on Chippewa)

I think the BPD needs mandatory retirement, mandatory physicals with rigorous standards and the like. (While googling up a lot of this info I came across a study on obesity and sleep disorders amongst BPD) I also don't see why they don't hire part time officers.

PaulBuffalo did great work above with the crime rate/population chart. The numbers lead me to believe that, aside from epidemics, such as crack and times of recession/depression, your numbers are going to fall somewhere between 6.5% and 7.5% and may never go lower than 6%. The key now is to employ the Powell doctrine on the East Side and Lower West Side while giving massive awards to any companies willing to provide jobs in those areas. (Perhaps hiring the part time cops from those areas)

I am simply arguing to the example of NYC's transformation. It was not a valid comparison.

I was pulled over, to my argument, due to obscene excise taxes (inspections, seat belts and the like) that NYS chooses to impose upon us.

This isn't that different from the wiretaps and keyword surveillance that are used on cell phones. You should have nothing to worry about if you aren't talking about anything illegal or controversial, the police are just protecting the citizens of America. Same thing holds true with the FBI monitoring internet usage to catch pedophiles and other criminals. I guess you have nothing to worry about as long as you are using the internet for lawful and morally righteous purposes. Why not perform random surveillance on citizens, after all we are all fine as long as we aren't doing anything illegal. Why not put a device on every car that disables it if you do not have a valid license or if it is not registered, insured, and inspected? Maybe we can go one step further and put a monitor on cars that will automatically generate a ticket if you exceed the maximum speed threshold for an area as defined by the government and enforced by RFID or other sensors located on speed limit signs. Fail to slow down to within a few miles of the speed limit and you will automatically be sent a ticket. Link together all the local surveillance cameras for 24x7 police monitoring, add in facial recognition and other comparative software to track known criminals. Maybe we can also begin to track all felons so we know their whereabouts whenever the government is curious about what they are up to.

It isn't that far off, the foot in the door and desensitization of these innocuous surveillance devices will make it easier for the government to impose more rigorous monitoring as they wish. Just ask yourself if you were aware of this passive surveillance before it was instituted? I didn't think so.

Paul,

First off, you act as though speeders and those with expired registrations were not caught prior to the advent of radar and license scanners. You also seem to imply that the scanners will bust bad guys and increase public safety.

Quote from above-

On a test run, they used the scanners at various checkpoints around the city. The scanners detected so many unregistered and uninsured cars that they were barely able to keep up with it. Derenda said that in 100 days, they impounded 1,000 cars. “Sometimes it’s not the owner’s fault,” says Derenda. “They’ll get their license suspended and not know it. The other thing that happens often too is people will change insurance and not fill out the proper paperwork.” Overall though, Derenda says, “I think it’s a positive thing, I really do.”

1000 cars in limited use!!!! You would think there had been people lying head-to-toe wounded in the streets of Buffalo given all the public safety infractions.

Then take the "barely able to keep up with it," quote. I picture the typical road block style of force out there 6-10 officers in a reasonably safe area of the city at a reasonably safe time of day and find myself wondering if we would not be better served with 2 officers playing collections eith their gadgets while the remainder are allocated to areas known for gun play and the like. (As I am quite sure bullets are a more pressing public safety issue)

Sorrry Gang,

I keep on finding faults with this nonsense...

According to Operation Impact's Mission Statement;

"The goal of Operation IMPACT is the reduction of crime, particularly violent and firearm-related crime in the seventeen (17) counties in New York State that account for 80% of total crime outside of New York City. This program, which was implemented in 2004, provides funding, resources, and technical assistance, and fosters enhanced partnerships amongst participating agencies. Successful crime reduction strategies include a data driven process of timely, accurate crime reporting; crime analysis; criminal intelligence development; rapid deployment of personnel; formulation and evaluation of strategic operations; and community out-reach."

Anyone wanna spin the scanner's ability to reduce "particularly violent and firearm-related crime?"

Perhaps "community out-reach," is to be read as a community reach-around.

As far as the "Quality-of-life," crimes that transformed one of Dante's stages into a Wiggles production;

Those crimes were vandalism, loud noise, littering, graffiti, prostitution, public intoxication, lewdness,and the like in areas where crime was an issue.

NOT driving down Elmwood avenue near Bidwell in a 6 month old Honda Civic purchased in Georgia because it did not have New York's own (tax) seals of approval. I do thank them, however, for looking out for my safety as god know's how much wear and tear those untrustworthy honda engineers placed on the vehicle.

I wonder what some of you would think about this if you or one of your family members got slammed into by some scumbag who had no insurance. The act of driving without insurance or valid plates/inspection is not the point, it's the potential harm to other people it can cause that's the issue. It's a public safety issue, it's not a personal freedom issue.

Further criminalization of our citizenship....

We are all criminals who exist solely due to the benevolence of our badged overlords!

[Deleted] THE POLICE

I am not sure that never having anyone ever pulled over for speeding again is necessarily a bad thing. Forgetting the constitutional arguments, sbrof makes a good point.

The people using the technology can't be trusted. Speeding, inspection, seat belts, cell phones etc were all supposed to be about public safety, instead they have become about collecting funds. Dummy speed traps or random checks are not enough anymore even though studies show that they are successful in changing behaviors. It simply isn't about safety at all.

I am surprised that no one has broken out the "driving is a priviledge," argument. Priviledge is often used by the government as a justification to do things that they wouldn't otherwise be able to do. (It really isn't much different than how parents treat children)

Of course, if you bust out the "how about you go catch a real criminal rap", to the cop writing you up for a cell phone infraction, don't be surprised if he forgets that he has you guilty of an infraction of a "priviledge," and acts like he just landed a serial killer.

Waste of money for cops who don't care about their job. I liked the news about the 15 officers that live out in the suburbs, rake in 100= thousand dollars a year and drive to and from work on the city's taxpayers dime.

All this does is give the union more tools to do the job that could just be done by officers who actually cared about their work. But then why would they, crime isn't a problem in Orchard Park, Clarence, or Springville.. makes me sick.

Reminds me of the public defender who gets drug dealers off the hook because of technicalities and doesn't care because he gets to go home every night to Tonawanda. We need to think about these issues as a regional problem. Unfortunately too many people feel they live consequence free from their jobs. This gives them one more tool to be even lazier in their work and collect the big bucks.

Colin-

The violation is not an expired sticker-it is driving with one. Same thing with insurance and registration. This is like any other "tax," on the people. Sure, they will stop more thieves but they will collect a lot more in fines (and don't forget their mandatory $55 surcharge)from those who may not have the time or the scratch to be prompt about such matters. Remember, not everyone makes 25 grand in OT and has there employers cover such mundane necessities.

Besides, in the age of identity theft, how would you like to have people running around with these things?

I love it, money for the purpose to reducing violent crime is being used to scan for insurance and inspection infractions... just a lovely use of our manpower and time.

1. I don't think this is a privacy issue. Cops already check plates as it is, and anytime you go out in public you open yourself up to being watched by someone.

2. This system should make the enforcement of these laws much more fair, as these checks are done automatically across the board rather than at a cop's discretion.

3. This has nothing to do with the union, or laziness. The claim that it does is almost incoherent -- what are you talking about?

4. "Reminds me of the public defender who gets drug dealers off the hook because of technicalities and doesn't care because he gets to go home every night to Tonawanda."

Uh, that's their job. it's an adversarial system.

GDC-

"I usually find that the ones who complain about extra police, street cameras, and the so-called 'Big Brother' are the ones who don't follow the rules/laws. If you did obey, you wouldn't be complaining about this. I say, Bring in MORE COPS in this city as we need some to walk the streets and respond to calls faster. We are limited in this city right now and they have to use such devices as these extra cameras"

You are correct GDC, bring in more cops. There is no greater deterent to crime than cops walking a beat. Unfortunately, your wishes face a great deal of obstacles from the cops that are already here. Many are to old to physically perform yet can't be forced to retire, the system is built to create overtime as opposed to hiring more officers, the city looks for technologies to place a band aid on these issues as opposed to fixing the core problems.

As for those complaining typically being guilty of something; If you have never received a violation/infraction or if you simply enjoy them, that is your right. However, please allow the rest f us to exercise our right to be ashamed at where our country has landed.

(As an aside, anyone see Ricky Gervais call us a third world country on Letterman last night-bang on)

If a cop is walking down your street and sees that your inspection sticker is out of date, is he barred from writing you a ticket if the car is in your driveway? I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt that's the case. The principle here is the same -- only the technology is different.

We have a couple cops living here in Black Rock and they are pretty good guys and care about this community. But sadly they are the exception, most police officers live in the suburbs taking their paychecks and badly needed presence away from the city. This is not allowed in our surrounding communities, residency is required. To provide cars enabling this behavior is an insult to all the poor taxpayers of Buffalo.

hey einstein,

They already have what you're talking about in many places. They get you for tickets in maryland with a camera. All you see is a flash and boom, you have a ticket.

Why do people complain about this? I have no clue. If the speed limit it 35 and you're doing 50, aren't you technically endangering the people on the road and pedestrians as well? A camera takes away your right to speed and thats a violation of civil liberties? You liberal kooks take it way too far all the time.

Here's some stats;

4.3% of all accidents in NYS were due to "vehicular factors."

More than half (2.2% of all accidents)of those fall under what is categorized as "other vehicular" (not falling under inspection requirements)

Throwing out an additional .4% for runaway vehicles,faulty tow hitches and oversized vehicles brings us to 1.7% .

1.7% of all accidentsfalling under "vehicular factors," could have arguably been prevented by an inspection.(Accelerator Defective, Brakes Defective,Headlights Defective,Other Lighting Defects,Steering Failure,Tire Failure/Inadequate)

However, that would assume that all of the 1.7% of these vehicles were not inspected. Incredibly unlikely. For instance, Tire failure accounts for .6%. Blowouts happen regardless of inspection.

At best ,one would most likely find that far less than .05% of all accidents in NYS are caused due to a lack of inspection. If you want to break it down by personal injuries (less than .009%) deaths (total of 10 out of 1330 counting 50% all of the tire failures as inspection issues and 100% of the brake failures as inspection issues)

No matter how generous one tries to be with the statistics; the facts belie the government's concern for our public safety.

Manski-

Public Safety is about preventing someone from slamming into your loved one. Once they are hit (given their is someone at fault) the public safety has been breached. It does not matter whether an at-fault party was insured.

By the way, how many accidents do we really think are caused by a lack of automobile upkeep? As you state, it is the "potential harm." What is the potential harm? How does an expired registration cause an accident?

Biniszkiewicz-

The Guliani comparison is dead wrong. Operation Impact is indeed supposed to use the Rudy strategy. The problem is, license plate scanners do not fit the "Quality-of-Life," "Nuisance crime," categories as defined by Rudy's successful campaign. If the scanner is only going to be used in areas that have high violent crime rates, I will back off on my arguments as that was another qualification for Rudy's program. (And a Qualification to receive Operation Impact funds. Buffalo, in fact, receives the most as we have the most serious crime in the state outside of NYC.-12% of all crime outside NYC)

Looking further into the numbers, we can see that in 2007 violent crime in Buffalo increased by 7% even with Operation Impact programs being used (should be read as misused). Syracuse was down 5.5% Albany was down 24% and Rochester was down 13.9%.

http://www.criminaljustice.state.ny.us/crimnet/ojsa/impact/2007annualreport.pdf

If McVeigh didn't have plates to scan.....

The turnstile jumper fit the QOL/ Nuisance crime descriptions.

Lets pretend we have a good example of scanners busting a murderer or mass murderer as opposed to the 2 above. Sure you can get lucky, but you're panning for gold, and judging everyone guilty first

http://www.criminaljustice.state.ny.us/crimnet/ojsa/impact/2007annualreport.pdf

Paul-

I answered your question promptyl

"Paul, First off, you act as though speeders and those with expired registrations were not caught prior to the advent of radar and license scanners. You also seem to imply that the scanners will bust bad guys and increase public safety."

Plus we also now know that the Oklahoma City Bomber was apprehended without proper registration.

Let's also take a look at the "lack of crime," in NYS. According to Operation Impact-

"New Yorkers live in the safest large state in the nation, and the fifth safest overall, behind only a handful of relatively small states. Over the past 16 years, the crime rate in New York State has decreased 61 percent, and violent crime is down 63 percent."

Fact is, there are only a few areas in NYS where violent crimes are an issue and we lead the way. If that changes due to a jihad on registration/inspection/insurance lapses, I will buy you dinner at the restaurant of your choice. Of course, if you must count on this gadget's success you are gonna get awfully hungry.

"Stealing from the Government?" Where is the perplexed smiley face when you need it.

Aren't we a "Goverment of the People, By the People, For the People."

For f*&% sake, is no one taught American History anymore?

Raise your hand if you voted to pay to have your car registered every 2 years. Raise your hand if you voted on the process and qualifications for inspection.

Anyone, Bueller?

The argument is about public safety period. None of this serves that goal.

Thanks for the "priviledge," argument. I never expected it to take so long and I certainly didn't expect it to rear it's head after speaking to it earlier in the thread.

estreet --

D'oh! You're right.

I don't have the answer to your question regarding felons being caught up on violations. But I didn't bring the argument to the table that it was an everyday occurence. If we take a quick look at the 1000 cars impounded, I once again saw no statements regarding such an instance but do recall the innocent folks being mentioned.

Now do you really think the BPD is going to use this technology in order to free up manpower to combat more serious crimes. Once again, take a look at the documents, violent crime down in Syracuse, Rochester, and Albany...Buffalo...up.

I don't know that I am really arguing so much against the tool as I am the folks the tool is being put into the hands of.

Setting aside the arguments that there is simply no preventative safety benefit that can be argued for this and that it will catch many innocent people who won't be compensated. The BPD have not, nor do I believe will ever in our lives, take ownership and responsibility for the security AND rights of their charges. They have alreday shown their vindictiveness/malice with their ticket writing jihad. Now we hand over a nuclear option?

I am sorry, obviously, that you were hit by a car. But the fact the car was stolen and he didn't have a license or insurance is not causal and a person without a license or insurance in a clean plated vehicle will still be able to run you down...

Biniszkiewicz-

I did argue the McVeigh arrest. Do we need scanner equipment to catch a guy with no plates at all? I also argued that the scanner program is akin to panning for gold. Assume all the rocks in the stream are guilty of being gold, you are bound to catch some.

Guliani's practice was decried by the ACLU because it was targeting specific groups such as those who live in high crime areas who are more likely to be minorities and the homeless.

From the NY Times-

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F07E0DE163BF936A25752C1A9669C8B63

"Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani sent out a pre-holiday warning yesterday to panhandlers, squeegee crews, prostitutes, noisemakers and others who he said disturb the public peace, announcing his latest crackdown on ''quality of life'' crimes in New York City, this time with a high-tech spin.

Since he came into office nearly seven years ago, Mr. Giuliani has unveiled a series of similar law enforcement initiatives, often as the holidays neared and hordes of tourists visited the city. What distinguishes this latest campaign, according to the Giuliani administration, is the enlistment of a Police Department computer mapping system traditionally used to monitor more serious crimes like robbery, rape and murder.

Now, complaints about everything from loud music to graffiti, public drinking, prostitution, panhandling and homelessness will be ''pin mapped'' precinct by precinct, and police supervisors will be expected to move quickly and aggressively to counter any trends, the mayor and his police commissioner, Bernard B. Kerik, said. "

The idea of the nuisance crimes crackdown was not simply to eliminate graffiti or prostitution, it was to make the city safer from violent crime not only in fact but in the eyes of tourists. It wasn't to harass everday joes.

The best the scanner crackdown can do is catch the odd auto thief. This not only does nothing for public safety, it is a net negative for public perception..

In fact, one of the scanner tests took place on Main St prior to a Thursday in The Square event.

Guliani would have had uniformed officers all over the place busting those urinating in public and littering. He would not have spent time harassing the very people that bring needed revenues to the city.

Lets believe the premise that the scanner program is akin to the Guliani crackdown. Registration issues at most could lead to stolen cars or folks driving without a license. ( Anything else would arguably be a matter of luck. Once again, the panning for gold analogy)

Operation Impact's mission is clear (It is in fact based on the Guliani program):

"The goal of Operation IMPACT is the reduction of crime, particularly violent and firearm-related crime."

Auto theft is not typically a violent crime.

The scanner system not only does not speak to the issue of violent and firearm related crime but the Director of the Operation speaks to the likelihood of innocent people being busted, not super villians.

Operation Impact has been around and certainly has seemed to help in most areas, just not here, and not for what it was intended for.

I most certainly will dispute the " the great number of arrests for more serious charges which develop from simple traffic stops." Why do you think you see these in the paper, because it happens all the time? How many traffic violations, citations, and the like do you think are given out in a year in a State the size of ours? How many do you think nail people for greater crimes? exactly....the man bites dog makes it into the paper.

Quick buffalo rising poll

A. How many of you have received a ticket of some sort? B. How many got nailed on that double murder they pulled because of the ticket?

-Now on to the priviledge argument. I never said it wasn't. Please repeat your assignment.

If I presume everyone innocent, I would have no need to train my radar gun or my license scanner at anyone's vehicle. The fact is, I am presuming everyone guilty.

It's a simple concept that unfortunately has been lost along the way.

Registration provides 2 things-

1. A tax for the State's coffers (This is why also why there is an expiration) 2. An ability to track someone

If someone causes an injury they can be tracked via these means if they were to run. I wonder what the number of hit and runs with bodily harm versus the number of accidents with bodily harm where the driver stays put is. Probably a very small percentage, and once again, the public safety has already been breached.

The only way tracking can improve public safety is if we assume that if there were no registration everyone would be in the streets attempting to hit each other. The tracking would be argued as a deterrent.

Computernut23-

" If the people cant register, insure, and have a car inspected like the rest of the population has to then why shouldnt they get caught? "

Take a look at the quote from the Director of Operations-

“Sometimes it’s not the owner’s fault,” says Derenda. “They’ll get their license suspended and not know it. The other thing that happens often too is people will change insurance and not fill out the proper paperwork.” Overall though, Derenda says, “I think it’s a positive thing, I really do.”

You can almost hear her trying to convince herself.

By the way, NYS is one of only three states that doesn't allow you to doenload your insurance documentation online. This creates a more time consuming process increasing the likelihood of incidents involving owners who are not at fault. Unfortunately for these folks, they are presumed guilty, therefore must go to court, most likely missing work and creating court costs that can't be recovered. Lest we forget, this person won't even get an apology let alone reimbursement for their aggravation

As with most things in life, it comes to money

Opportunity is the only thing that prevents crime. Not enforcement. Lets not forget how much money from Viacom, Disney and everyone else went into Guliani's program.

Here's a suggestion, mandatory retirement for police officers who are unable to perform at an acceptable level. Spread the savings from those salaries (typically over 100,000 per) among new hires in the force. Expand the force using part time officers and require all city employees to live within city limits. Get rid of all personal cars or use them as a carrot to convince officers to live in certain areas of the city. (as we know, if a cop lives on your block, odds are the crime will be low)

Of course the first thing we must do is take back the city from the unions. Use Bush tactics, it's about security after all. the unions are welcome back once we blow them up, only now, they won't be likely to over-reach.

"Estreet, I'm stating directly that these scanners will increase public safety because they will process many more lapsed registrations, etc."

Can anyone provide an example of a lapsed registration causing bodily harm?

American history teaches us to question authority. American Government teaches us why.

Remember, tea was a priviledge as well.

Here are the factss, lets not let them get in the way of anyone's myopia.

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/Statistics/2006_NYS_Accident_Summary_Final.pdf

manski-

We can't make the world perfect. We should be looking for a happy medium. How many of these lapsed inspection accidents (causing injury) would you perceive to be out there. Is it an epidemic? Why do some states not have inspection (should i avoid these states at all cost. Does the landscape in these lands of chaos remind one of thunderdome?), why is almost every state different in it's application of inspection qualification