I agree KenS... the functionality of this website is just awful. I don't understand how a simple blog story site with comments could be so unresponsive and slow to load.
I agree KenS... the functionality of this website is just awful. I don't understand how a simple blog story site with comments could be so unresponsive and slow to load.
Georged, regarding M&T, they are screwed come late August or September. As one of the largeest issuers of credit cards, we are on the cusp of a banking crisis far wider and larger than subprime crisis. Two years ago I predicted the subprime melt down for late 2007, about a year and a half ago I said August 08 will be a cridit crisis spawned by impropper issuance of the cards..
Think about how many solicitations, even people with bad credit histories have gotten in the mail from dubious providers, at best. Who backs those? MBNA (now a part of B of A) and M&T are two of the largest.
So much for that prospect. ) : So easy to see why pessimism runs rampant throughout WNY population and culture and it touches me as well. Down so long with so many build ups just to result in let downs wheres the upside? Every step forward includes one or two back. That site had a higher and better use envisioned and now we'll be lucky if anything ends up there at all. I guess the HSBC continues to reign supreme over the Buffalo skyline for the next 40 years as it has over the previous 40.
For $2.1 million can they really turn a profit as a small surface parking lot???
sonyactivison says:
Oh, and on the subject of the financials, if M&T and HSBC, but especially M&T hold their own in this downturn, there will be many opportunities for them to buy out weaker banks and expand dramatically. One example is National City in Cleveland which is near death. They have a pretty large asset base and would fit M&T to a T. It would be interesting if Buffalo were to become a Charlotte-sized money center banking mecca. If that happened, there would be tower cranes.
Let me guess, you don't work in the banking business, right. As someone who does, let me tell you that taking over troubled banks is no recipe for expanding dramatically in many circumstances. You inherit all the negatives,of thosde weak banks, no thanks. Leave that kind of takeovers to the big boys like Bank of America and JP Morgan. As far as Buffalo becoming a Charlotte-sized banking center, good luck. Is JP Morgan or Citi planning on moving to Buffalo??
The deal was dead as soon as the janitorial staff at the statler started unionizing. Of course, I have nothing against unions except that they have a tendancy to drive private and public businesses out of business or into insolvency :-(
Big surprise. Outside developers buy some cheap land in a downtown area and turn a profit. Building has been suspended in many major cities that are doing much better than Buffalo right now. Much tighter money loaning out there. The big question to people is, Who would nhave filled these offices anyways? No new business coming in. I thought that downtown alrady had a high vacancy rate anyways.
How is this bad news? Everyone knew that Issa was never going to develop the property. At least now it's owned by someone who knows the local market and understands real estate.
When a large bank comes along and is looking for 20 floors of Class A office space in Buffalo, this will be the site. It may not happen in our lifetime, but this will be the site.
The place at the corner of Tupper and Franklin is called Laughlins and the food is fantastic. The mojitos are even better.
Started as a parking lot, remains as a parking lot... the only thing we have lost is our dream that it would be something different. Don't count on any project until it is completed. We would probably just complain that it wasn't as multi-use as we had hoped, it didn't have bike racks, wasn't up to some unrealistic architectural standard, wasn't LEED certified, or interfered withe migratory habits of birds.
I am still hopeful that someday we will have another building in excess of 50 stories, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen in the near future. My guess is that Bashar Issa will focus on completing one of the many projects that he has started and never finished, maybe it will be the Statler. Hey, we can dream can't we.
Oh, and on the subject of the financials, if M&T and HSBC, but especially M&T hold their own in this downturn, there will be many opportunities for them to buy out weaker banks and expand dramatically. One example is National City in Cleveland which is near death. They have a pretty large asset base and would fit M&T to a T. It would be interesting if Buffalo were to become a Charlotte-sized money center banking mecca. If that happened, there would be tower cranes.
Croce is slowly building an impressive portfolio of properites downtown. I believe he also owns the two buildings on the corner of Franklin and Huron, not to mention pretty much all of Franklin between Chip and Tupper.
Now the quesiton remains, what's the plan? I don't think its going to be just status quo. We'll have to wait and see.
Sounds like Buffalo needs what we have here in Seattle - a friendly, fun-loving multi-billionaire like Paul Allen (co-founder of Microsoft) who has bought up half the city AND is DOING things with it - like building affordable housing, creating parks and building the Experience Music Project, among others. All in all he follows through on some great projects
One curiosity: the appreciation on this parcel was more than 100% in slightly more than a year. What is that about in these "hard times?"
Maybe the mega yacht parkes in the inner harbor is actually a multi-billionaire real estate mogul who was visiting to acquire some new property and move through with a mega development but this time its backed with bucks....lol A man can dream right?
This parking lot at 85 W. Mohawk sells for a million dollars last year. I put an assessment complaint in and get no response from the city. This parking lot sells again this year at over two million dollars. The assessment stands at $541,200. Let's see if the city listens to me this year.
"The Music Man" came to River City to swindle the gullible citizens. Even if Issa bails out on the Statler (and I don't think that's a foregone conclusion yet), he will have left it better off than when he bought it. As for the City Tower site - it's not like he ripped down a historic building and then didn't do anything with it.
I don't see Issa as a crook. More as a young guy with more money than experience whose imagination got him in over his head. There are certainly worse things to be.
Hey BRO...instead of deleting my comment regarding the performance issues of this website, why don't you address and fix them?
I guess Issa's not too bad of a business man, after all, if you look at the fact that he bought a parking lot, made a big juicy development announcement, sat on the property for a year and then sold it for a $1.1M profit.
I'm in the wrong business!
Although the disappointment is understandable, does it really come as a surprise to anyone that Issa would cut back on his Buffalo holdings at the moment--? And does anyone see a potential silver lining in this revelation that - despite an economic downturn, with real estate values melting down many places - that a significant piece of downtown Buffalo property doubled in value in just a year--?
My big question would be whether Issa had begun actively marketing this parcel (and when), or whether 'Elmo' saw in Issa's recent desperate straits an opportunity and approached Issa with an offer? It would be hard to imagine someone in Issa's circumstances - regardless of whether, at this point, he has an ongoing interest in Buffalo - being able to turn away a cool Million waved in his direction.
rubygreta..".everyone" knew that Issa was never going to build the tower?? From the articles and comments I have read here at BRO since Issa came to town, he was going the "chosen one".
Jokes on them.
Croce has developed an impressive portfolio. His first big splash was Coliseum (whatever incarnation that's on now--Irish Pub or am I behind a generation?). He's continually plowed a lot of money into that place. Chop House was a major undertaking. He owns the country bar (still country?) next door to Chop House, Duo across the street, the place at the corner of Tupper and Franklin which used to be dive. It's not just one place that he's done. He never buys a place that's all finished. He starts with the shell and guts.
Foodwise, I'm never impressed with his restaurants. Architecturally I think he does some outstanding rehabs (the interiors of Duo and the Franklin/Tupper place stand out to me). Franklin Street's success is a prime part of Chippewa's success. The area would not be as attractive it is without Croce's rehabs.
He is sitting on the property at Franklin and Huron at the moment because in his estimation the business case is not yet strong enough to warrant development. His property, his call. He pays the taxes and the mortgage and the maintenance for the privilege of developing it when he senses opportunity. A few years ago he had an inclination to develop an upscale hotel there when the time was right. Maybe now with other hotels occupying new space downtown the time won't be right. Don't know. But he's not letting the places rot. Could be worse. They could be in danger of demolition by default but aren't because he has the resources and inclination to prevent that.
His parking lot business is a real thing, one at which he apparently does very well. Good for him. But I don't think that's the ultimate ambition. I doubt that the site he purchased for $2m pencils out as surface parking. I think he's acquiring land for future development and he's paying the bills by renting it daily to downtown drivers. I think that ultimately he desires to be a major developer downtown, in his one little stretch of prime property.
From the various news stories that I read about Mr. Issa, he seemed to sincerely see the potential in Buffalo. However, he didn't understand the workings of Buffalo too well and he was caught up in the downturn of the economy like most developers in the country. He presented some very interesting ideas and, perhaps, in the future another developer will be able to take the reigns. I give the man credit for trying to do something.
I hate to say I told you so, but...
Bullshitter Issa was a complete FRAUD from the very start. Typical rich kid playing with daddy's money who has no idea what he's doing. Of course, perhaps he was planning on flipping both properties all along, in which case BRO should feel pretty stupid for spending so much time fluffing this guy up. I can't wait for the day he flips the (STILL unfinished) Statler and high-tails it out of town, and all his apologists (BRO likely leading the pack) blame unions, the cost of steel, etc.
Face it, people... the guy was 100% phony from the start. He doesn't care about you, me, his workers, Buffalo, nada. He either (a) has ZERO idea what he's doing and has no concept of development, its costs, the Buffalo market, etc. or (b) is no better than the East Side flippers people around this site love to rip to shreds... he just has a nicer boat, a worse haircut, an accent and fancier clothes.
And NO, I do not work for any union suing His Holiness nor is anyone I know affiliated with them.
Is anybody actually surprised by this? I ask not out of some knee-jerk pessimism, but this guy seemed too good to be true at first, and then more and more fishy as the facts came out.
I have the answer to all these problems. Why dont we ask the better people for Buffalo what we should do with this site since they seem to think they have all the answers for Buffalo and you and me???? My option is that these idiots are the ones that scared him away from building this building. He seen what was going on with the senecas and the lawsuits and everything else that trys to happen in this city goes to court so he doesnt want any part of it. You will relaize that he wont be the only one over time because other people will not want to come to Buffalo and build for the same reason. Because if its not what the supposebly better people for Buffalo want and think is in there favor then they will fight it and take you to court and make things up why it shouldnt happen . I have one more point that has nothing to do with this city tower but I hope if this casino gets closed trhe people that work there now take the lawyer and all the people involed with better for Buffalo to court and sue them for all the money they have there life savings there kids savings there house car and any investment for them losing there good paying jobs with benefits and put all of them in the streets with nothing and then see if there attitude changes then.
Normally, the expression is "I hate to say it, but 'told you so." In this case, I state it with glee. Had a feeling Mr. Issa was a waste of time.....................wa-a-a-ay back when.
berniceheartsyou -
What steel is already up? Issa hasn't done a damn thing with the parcel in question.
Could you be thinking of the new federal courthouse being built one block closer to Niagara Square?
so what...no tower, no finished statler, no elmwood hotel, no casino, a useless empty main street...but at least we will have "Jimmy Griffin" park next to the stadium.
Here's another silver lining.
Maybe Cannon will just go and buy a building or build their own.
How about rehabbing AM&A's into a great architecture office?
This guy was just like the "Music Man" all talk and nothing to back it up. How a European (GB on the Pound) can go belly up and concede with the dollar being what it is, is a mystery to me. I know I will catch hell for this but look at my old post on this con man... The British Pound is worth 70 cents more than the US dollar... Yet he found a way to back out... His dream and everyone's dream of a giant sky scraper was stupid, to say the least. How was Buffalo going to absorb all of that empty space?
"Seventy Six Trombones...."
i am truly heart broken. truly. what are they going to do with all that steel already up?
come on buffalo. seriously.
Do people want to keep the young people here? This is my first true dissapointment.
but we should have seen it comin, that guy throws around money and ideas and does nothing.
this really disappoints me, he should have held onto the land until the price of steal comes down then built the tower. hopefully the new owners have similiar plans for the site
Croce is partners with James Sandino who owns the Pierce Arrow Museum and is also Croces partner in all of his parking ventures 50/50. Parking makes way more money for Croce than any of his other businesses combined. The Restaurants and Bars are just venues he owns to push people into his lots...very shrewd business man is Croce.
Does everyone realize that M&T BANK is HUUUGE in Baltimore, more so than Buffalo??? Ravens Stadium is M&T Bank Stadium, theyre very involved there and are expanding in Baltimore despite their floundering stock price (60% haircut in last year)
While I can see the frustration from everyone.....
What has me upset is that Buffalo got to this point in the first place. Projects fail all of the time. Who cares the what the reason is. The hard part to swallow is this will be a parking lot for a long time. It was not purchased by another developer with vision. It was purchased by a smart businessman who knows parking is what makes money in Buffalo not development. To me, that reality is the bitch slap not that Issa walked away.
Ask yourself when was the last time something over 4 stories was built brand new downtown without it being funded by taxpayers. Sure there are conversions and restorations but.....
I am just as upset as other but I think for different reasons.
The people in this town should be ashamed of themselves for being duped by this young punk. He wasted valuable time, resources and will leave the statler to rot!
SUCKS! to think that i drove home from my shitty job with a smile. I was never really hot on this location for the project and now i feel like i am in the movie Fear and Loathing in las Vegas.
where the hell is that city tower plan. ughhhhh totally disheartening. I need to start listening to country music.
what would have been a great idea was for issa to sell the property to croce, they partner up, issa takes that money to pay off whatever he needs to, then when times get better they develop the property together. quick influx of cash for issa who may be having with problem at other sites, and the property stays in the hands of lcoal interests who make money off it as a parking lot until its time. is that legal?
OK, georged, here's a question: what was Bank of America before it was one of the "top five banks in the country"? Answer: Nations Bank, which had its start as a local bank called NCNB based in Charlotte. Through a series of aggressive acquisitions in the eighties under it's chairman Hugh MacColl, it became one of the largest U.S. banks. As Nations Bank, they simply bought out San Francisco-based Bank of America to create the country's second largest bank. It all started in Charlotte. Similarly, Wachovia, which was based in Winston-Salem NC, grew aggressively and eventually moved its corporate headquarters a hundred miles to Charlotte. With BB&T and the former First Union, North Carolina was a regional banking hotbed that grew to become a global banking mecca. What's stopping Buffalo from emulating those guys? I like M&T. I'd love to see them get really really big.
If Croce owns this land, we can forget about a skyscraper going up on this land. When has he ever built a 'BRAND NEW' building? Or renovated a building since the ONE on Franklin almost 10 years ago? Looks like it'll just stay as a boring old parking lot unless this guy gets an offer too big to pass.
Yes, Carl, Issa has turned a tidy profit. But what does the 100+% increase in this sale price over last year's say about the downtown real estate market? Anything? What am I missing?
rubygreta...one other thing. What makes you believe that this will be THE spot to build when someone decides they want to put up an office tower. How is this site any different from the other NUMEROUS surface parking lot sites downtown which could support the same type of bldg.?
There is no reason why a project of similar ambition cannot proceed on that site. I'd move forward with a project geared to office rather than mixed use. There are too many hotel projects moving forward right now.
"i am truly heart broken. truly. what are they going to do with all that steel already up?"
You must have that sold parking lot confused with a ongoing building renovation (Avant) happening up the street. That project is alive and well.
Sonyactivision,
Charlotte gained its presence largely from Bank of America and Wachovia, two of the top 5 banksin the nation, not regional banks like M&T.
From the Buffalo News:
"British developer Bashar Issa has sold the downtown Buffalo parcel where he proposed to erect the city's tallest building.
Issa, who in April halted work on the historic Statler Towers citing cash flow problems, today sold the proposed City Tower site for $2.15 million to Elmo Development LLC, a corporation tied to Buffalo restaurateur Mark Croce.
Croce currently leases the site, located at the corner of West Mohawk Street and South Elmwood Avenue, and operates it as a surface parking lot. Croce, owner of the Buffalo Chop House and several other downtown restaurants and bars, could not be immediately reached to comment.
Issa, who floated plans for a 40-story, $361 million mixed-use complex, bought the surface parking lot for $1 million in June 2006."
Croce already leased the site. I don't see him building anything on this lot anytime soon....
This guy is CLEARLY A VERY POOR BUSINESS MAN that knows NOT what he is doing.
Many of the parking lots in downtown Buffalo are for the most part ugly scars on the cityscape. If this property is still utilized as parking lot long term It would be nice if Elmo Development LLC/Mr. Croce could sacrifice a couple hundred squre feet around the permiter adjoining the sidewalk for some much needed landscaping, couple of trees would be nice. Attention to details as far as landscaping around downtown would defintely enhance the overall appearance of the entire area.
Well he still owns the Statler and can STILL save face!! I can definately see how the "wrong place at the wrong time" argument comes in with the U.S. economy tanking and all...but we'll have to see how long it takes him to get moving again on his first project or sell. To flip or not to flip.. that is the question.
There are better locations for the kind of mixed use development that Issa proposed. That said, this lot won't stay parking forever, but it will have to wait for progress to catch up with any sale price. Another thing here is that with the financial sector taking such a huge beating and the fact that only the big banks remain as a viable tennant for a large office tower in Buffalo, now was definitely not the time to build. I like the idea of tall residential in the Fountain Square area as well as the waterfront. That, with a little retail and some office thrown in, could really soar.
Bernice - the site you mentioned with the steel up is the Federal Courthouse on Niagara Square. That project is still moving along. Issa's tower site was a block north and never broke ground.
Did Issa even complete the elevator rehab in the Statler? I guess the savior crown can be removed from his head.
Issa can join the great Jeff Skolnick who was supposed to be the biomed campus king a few years back? Where is Skolnick now?
i am not confused about the avant. i thought the steel that they are working on in front of the statler was where the city tower was going to be built. My apologies, i did not live here when this was announced. what are they building across from the statler than??????
I cant wait to read the rest of the comments when i get home from work tonight! sorry for posting 3 times in 5 minutes
maybe he is not as dumb as we all thought....issa just made a million bucks of that frigging site.
and it was bought by elmo!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4x-VW_rCSE
RonR...the answer to your question is NOTHING! NOTHING has been built without a grant, tax credit, or taxpayer funding in a long long time!
I guess Issa's not too bad of a business man, after all, if you look at the fact that he bought a parking lot, made a big juicy development announcement, sat on the property for a year and then sold it for a $1.1M profit.
I'm in the wrong business!
has anybody(and when i say anybody i mean on this site and in any development company) think about using a modified esign of the City Tower and putting it on a different lot so it could alleviate all the b&@%s#*^ locally associated with being a "TALL" building and all that jazz? Like..say..near some of the other tallest buildings in the city.........................???
One thing, georged, because some of these banks are so troubled, they may likely end up in federal receivership and have the non-performing loans trimmed from their books before the government puts them on sale. This is exactly what will happen at IndyMac and what did happen at Bear Stearns. The Feds aren't in the banking business so they'll look to unload these messed up banks quickly. there's always a risk but didn't M&T already buy up the troubled Allied Irish Banks in Baltimore? And how did Charlotte attain its present status? JPMorgan and Citi didn't move there either, did they? Local banks that became well run superregionals expanded through acquisitions, the biggest of which occurred amid economic downturn.
Why doesn't someone else just Build something there and market it as Issa was going to? Market it INTERNATIONALY not locally and try to get new business to this area with a brand new high tech Class A office building.
Jay, Croce has owned the buildings on Huron St. for at least 10 years and has done NOTHING with them.
News today is reporting that he pans to build on it:
http://www.buffalonews.com/145/story/395677.html
I love how Mark Croce says " I intend what I build to be the best and highest use of this property" without any irony whatsoever. We've already seen a 'highest use' proposal for this lot, now I can't wait to see Croce's 'best use' proposal. Make us proud, Mark....
Report this