"Go forth and enjoy what you've created here" at least they are honest about the whole ordeal. Thank god for a growing vocal and caring community... otherwise we would have a cheep looking plaza with a band shell.

If we learn nothing from this and the livery it is that the community when it puts its mind together can make changes happen. We shouldn't wait any longer for silver bullets or city hall changes. It is time to remake our city and make the politicians what they should have always been.. accountable to the public's will.

thats money that would have been wasted without a shadow of a doubt otherwise. Happier to see it spend on this than breaking up parties at canisius!....People on one of the news stations were complaining that its stupid there and theres nuthing to do but walk around. No stores no food. This stuff isnt gonna get built overnight. Buffalo has been in a pretty bad place for a pretty long time. Give it time and with bass pro being built beginning next year and the casino not too far, those shops and vendors will follow. Overly optimistic? yeah probably...but thats wat being from buffalo is about. (well for half of us anyways, the other half of buffalonians criticize everything and expect nothing)...ie see tonymacaroni ^^^^

"$53 million and 9 years??? Anyone have any idea how many small to medium businesses we could have opened and spurred the economy with?"

The government does not need to be spending moeny to "create jobs"...the government is plenty inefficient already. It just needs to get out of our way and let people work without millions of dollars in compliance costs and union-favoring regulations

Hopefully the impending wall street collapse will be the start of this state hitting rock bottom

Our Senator was visiting Buffalo???? Wow, this truly is a monumental and noteworthy occasion. I guess it takes a NYC size expenditure to bring her to Buffalo. Do the workers on this project factor in to the 200,000 jobs that she is creating for Upstate NY? Well, maybe she can focus on that now that she is back from her leave of absence to campaign for President.

Do you think they noticed yet they spelled "ERIE" canal wrong yet on their nice sign that tells the history of the canal? I noticed this a few weeks ago when I went to take a look at the new waterfront. The spelled it "EIRE" and if you would like to see its right after you walk over that wooden bridge on the left side with the little waterfall behind it. But besides that little mishap I think it looks great down their and they did a good job. Yes a little expensive but everything is when it goes through politics.

Maybe the spelling is a tribute to all the Irish workers who helped build it?

The spelling was intentional. See story: http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/buffaloerie/story/376431.html

It’s the newest attraction in downtown Buffalo. Since its opening May 23, the historic site has attracted thousands of visitors, all interested in seeing the terminus of the Eire Canal.

Eire?

That’s what several Fix It readers who have visited the new Erie Canal Harbor on Buffalo’s waterfront have been wondering, noting that one of the historic information markers at the site recounts the early history of the canal under the heading “Eire Canal”.

“That’s intentional,” Matthew Davison, communications director of the Erie Canal Harbor Development Corp., told Fix It when we questioned that and another misspelling on the sign.

Davison said the unusual spelling is Gaelic for “Ireland” and is a reference to the contributions the Irish made not only in the building of the canal, but on Buffalo’s waterfront.

But what about another apparent misspelling, in the narrative about “Fingy” Conners, a major political figure of the time, in which Fingy “spoked” like a dock worker?

“The signage at Erie Canal Harbor was developed to capture the historic nature of Buffalo’s inner harbor and convey the story of some of the most prominent figures impacting our waterfront throughout the years,” Davison said by e-mail. “Wording variations on the signage were intentionally utilized to capture the rich cultural heritage of the inner harbor, as well as help establish an ‘old tyme’ feel and experience for visitors.”

Do you think they noticed yet they spelled "ERIE" canal wrong yet on their nice sign that tells the history of the canal? I noticed this a few weeks ago when I went to take a look at the new waterfront. The spelled it "EIRE" and if you would like to see its right after you walk over that wooden bridge on the left side with the little waterfall behind it. But besides that little mishap I think it looks great down their and they did a good job. Yes a little expensive but everything is when it goes through politics.

buffalo, the netherlands of the geat lakes

we have more canals and are rewatering more canals than any city in the us

I hate to say it, but lets be honest with each other...so far this project is a joke. 9 years and 53 million.

There is nothing there other than a sh!t smelling boat slip, a small musuem, and a red shed. The jet. helicopter, and sub look like they were taken from a junk yard. Typical Buffalo.

It is embarassing and so far has added no value to the city. Whoever was in charge of this is a compete retard.

The 53 mill and TIME wasted realy could have been much better spent.

this whole sewage issue and an abomination....someone needs to be help accountable.

I, frankly, am surprised by all the negativity concerning this issue. As a kid living on Niagara Street when I was very young, I have very vague memories of the pre-Thruway years below the bluff in Riversdie. I can remember being taken down to the area that was once part of the Erie Canal. When did I realize that it was the canal? I discovered it incidentally in a book about urban history while I was in college. Subsequently growing up in the Northtowns, I grew up thinking that the terninus was in Tonawanda. Also, I thought the Black Rock Channel was built to separate the City Dump from the rest of us. So much for education. So much for local interest. I had to go to college in California to find that the Erie Canal had been virtually in my own backyard. So much for ignorance. So much for persistence.

I, frankly, am surprised by all the negativity concerning this issue. As a kid living on Niagara Street when I was very young, I have very vague memories of the pre-Thruway years below the bluff in Riversdie. I can remember being taken down to the area that was once part of the Erie Canal. When did I realize that it was the canal? I discovered it incidentally in a book about urban history while I was in college. Subsequently growing up in the Northtowns, I grew up thinking that the terninus was in Tonawanda. Also, I thought the Black Rock Channel was built to separate the City Dump from the rest of us. So much for education. So much for local interest. I had to go to college in California to find that the Erie Canal had been virtually in my own backyard. So much for ignorance. So much for persistence.

Sorry for the double entry!

Did this thing really cost 53 million. There is nothing there. where are the receipts. We need an itemization. This looks more like a 10 mill dollar project with 43 mill being lost or stolen.

I think everyone being negative needs to wait for the completion of the next phases of work. The 53 million was the public investment to get the private dollars (Benderson's) to continue the work and bring in retail etc. The smell can be fixed and I am glad it is there because it shines light on a long overdue issue with our sewer system.

I also wonder how much money the Baltimore Inner Harbor cost their tax payers.. Somehow I doubt it was free but it seems to be something everyone here wants us to aspire too. Which is sad because their whole inner harbor I thought was the most boring bland place. Nothing but a couple chain restaurants in a cheap looking plaza. Similar to what the state wanted for us initially. There is nothing there that talks about Baltimore's history or unique place in the country. Maybe they don't have the history. Or maybe they were just so gun ho about getting something built they didn't care to do things right.

Everyone I have talked to and went to the Erie Canal has absolutely loved it. maybe you should go there and actually see and experience for yourself Phase I of a multi phase project.

$53 Million dollars and 9 years for this? I would love to see the accounting. Where did all the money go? What's left? What's next?

Marine engineering is expensive. quit complaining. but 9 years was too long. Regardless it's there, looks incredible, and is full of promise of good things to come.

Those of you gripeing about the price haven't done much construction recently... Engineering (Not just excavating) a canal, attached to a kinda big lake and river ain't cheap. I'd venture the majority of the cost associated with the job dealt with site prep, remediation, proper excavation of a historical site, and SAFELY digging out a canal, without flooding said workers (This isn't DeWitt Clinton's time; we can't lose a few dozen workers in the name of costs, we have this thing called OSHA now), and building all that stuff costs $$.

They did a nice job. I'll happily pay a few $$ in taxes to bring friends, family, and myself down there to use it.

If any of you doubt the costs of this stuff, build something as simple as a house. I'll happily share the estimates for mundane site-prep work on my 4-acre property in OP; it ain't cheap...

-Andy

What fun is life if you are not negative about other's accomplishments? =)

I think it cost like $10.75 to dredge and quickly move the war ships. So I guess that $53 mil is quite crazy. ;)

They actually paid much less. The week it was moved it was "move one battleship, get the second free" and they were honoring all coupons. It worked out to $4.30. Seriously, what could they have spent the rest of the 53 million on???

Heather-

If we scaled it out; I'd get it done quicker, but I doubt it would be much cheaper. I have about 300 feet of Wetlands on my property, in an area I'm at least 750 feet away from developing. I've spent nearly $15,000 on permits, surveys, enigneering, etc to prove I will not be disturbing it. I probably won't knock a leaf off a tree in that area; nor do I care to. Add to that the remainder of the normal site work, cutting, filling, landscaping, hardscaping, etc. I'd bet it'll scale similar.

I haven't had a bowstring, or plate bridge built recently, but I bet they're well into the 7-figure range. Ditto for the brick work. Dock work. Rental on equipment to place stones. Union laborers to mortar/place/seal stones. Concrete work. Driving piles to set the docks. Paperwork, and more paperwork.

Now, try entering navigable waters of the US Government, and start your engineering, site survey/work and legal costs originally fighting, then re-engineering work to fit preservationists (Though that's money well spent), etc. I can see where this balloons to $53M.

-Andy

Heather-

If we scaled it out; I'd get it done quicker, but I doubt it would be much cheaper. I have about 300 feet of Wetlands on my property, in an area I'm at least 750 feet away from developing. I've spent nearly $15,000 on permits, surveys, enigneering, etc to prove I will not be disturbing it. I probably won't knock a leaf off a tree in that area; nor do I care to. Add to that the remainder of the normal site work, cutting, filling, landscaping, hardscaping, etc. I'd bet it'll scale similar.

I haven't had a bowstring, or plate bridge built recently, but I bet they're well into the 7-figure range. Ditto for the brick work. Dock work. Rental on equipment to place stones. Union laborers to mortar/place/seal stones. Concrete work. Driving piles to set the docks. Paperwork, and more paperwork.

Now, try entering navigable waters of the US Government, and start your engineering, site survey/work and legal costs originally fighting, then re-engineering work to fit preservationists (Though that's money well spent), etc. I can see where this balloons to $53M.

-Andy

MJ -- you are so right. The $53 million price tag is for the entire area from the Vietnam Veterans Memorial to Main Street. What you all are forgeting is the new Veteran's Park and moving the naval vessels to a new excavated Naval slip (about $13 million) -- these ships once create a 75-foot steel wall across the entire site. Actually, what they celebrated yestreday was the completion of "Phase II" of the project; "Phase I" (the Veterans Park) opened in 2004 and has been regularly used since that time.

With regard to the overall price figure -- keep in mind that as an "infrastructure" project, a lot of what was built is not visible -- hazardous soil remediation, extensive archaeology, new utilities to allow for future development, steel bulkhead walls and subsurface tieback walls behind the "historic" stones in the canal wall (they even marked each individual original canal stone that was used with a medallion to distinguish them from off-site stones that were brought in to fill in the walls), a significant water pumping system to flush out the canal after storm events, and re-routing a series of ultilities that crossed the parking lot that once made up the majority of the site (including a 36-inch BUffalo Sewer Authority force main from the Buffalo river -- BTW, the venting of that main is the real source of that smell -- it's a long-standing problem that still hasn't been dealt with).

In fact, some of that $53 million hasn't even been spent yet -- for the restoration and reconstruction of cobblestone streets that will provide access to development sites (inside the fence line) and for a new off-site sewer control facility to remove floatable debris before exiting the outfall on the river.

All of that stuff costs a bit more than prepping a lot for a single family house in OP -- just for a point of reference, there's a big arena across Main Street from this site. Know what site prep costs were for that baby 14 years ago in 1994? About $35 million excluding acquisition (and a total project cost of about $120 million).

525-

That's EXACTLY what I'm trying to say! I know how much I had to pay, to develop virtually nothing. I don't even wanna know what it costs to weld a new nose on a Sub, create a dock, and move it. :)

People gripeing about costs haven't done this type of work. I work closely with the engineering department of a large telephone company downtown; capital improvement projects are MASSIVE $$. And, I think we'll be getting a return on this one...

This is an amazing project, and $53M is relatively cheap, in my eyes.

Why dont all the whiners complain about the millions spent on infrastructure in the suburbs. The taxpayer money spent on sprawl makes this project look like chump change. As a city resident I am tired of listening to all the negative comments directed at Buffalo by those with no stake in the city.

Why dont all the whiners complain about the millions spent on infrastructure in the suburbs. The taxpayer money spent on sprawl makes this project look like chump change. As a city resident I am tired of listening to all the negative comments directed at Buffalo by those with no stake in the city.

Good Point blackrocklifer!!!!!!!

Heathersmiles - YES Its called Ralph Wilson Stadium and it cost $85Million and that was 35 yrs ago!!!!

"$53 million and 9 years"

This slow, expensive development process that produces a product unsatisfactory to many is the necessary consequence of what I call the Bass Pro model of development. Free NY produced a study on this.

http://freenewyork.org/articles/policyreports/fbpr4--BassPro.pdf

Excerpt:

"What exactly is the problem with Bass Pro and similar large development projects in Western New York that makes them so complex that they take virtually forever to complete while many are never completed at all? This is a critical question to answer as it affects the entire future of this community which is struggling to keep up with a dynamic and fast-paced global economy. It is critical because the people and institutions now in control of large development projects are the same people or types of people and the same institutions with similar mindsets as those who have presided over 45 straight years of economic decline. Some of these people and institutions have managed, however, to appear to be bringing something new to the table, as opposed to those bad old political and economic actors responsible for the long checklist of major project errors over the last four decades. In fact, nothing important has changed."

it's a good start when we preserve the genesis location that did more for Buffalo than any other project in this cities history. I love going down there and studing the historic photographs and comparing them to what is there now. It is cool to see how many sand dunes used to stand on our waterfront. I spotted a sturgeon in the Buffalo River swimming under the floating dock before the massive weeks of rain fall and river and land run off and the sewage venting that happens all across North America during heavy rainfall.

What were the uses of the building foundatiions that stand there? Which building is Dug's Dive? Is it Dug or Doug? To better identify the structures would be more helpful to understand the site. It is interesting to see how the walls increased in size over time and to see the different ages of the bricks. What most of you have never seen is the complete ruins under the Marine Drive parking lot. This was Al Coppola's old neighborhood. The brick streets are still there. The buidling were torn down and dumped into the basements and then paved over by asphalt. I was there when the archiologists were involved in the study of that area. I have walked in Roman cities that reminded me of what I see at the Terminus.

The history of the Terminus needs to be amplified and more buildings and shops that authenticate what was there is one of the ways to further get citizens and visitors more excited about our autute history. In WWII we bombed Germany into ruins and look how many war ravaged areas of Germany and Europe have been rebuilt and preserved. Our history is worthy of the same attention.

The Veterans Musum and monuments to those veterans is respectful and very interestimg. Take a look a the mini sub. Look at the old diving suit and helmet. I used to be stationed at Pier 12 on an aircraft carrier when the Little Rock was still in active duty. The Croaker and Sullivans tell a story about the greatest Navy the world ever seen during WWII . Our Navy fought in two theatres of combat across the oceans and seas of this planet. Those ships are saturated with history and even ghosts. The monuments and the sheer number of old war equipment is amazing. The gardens do great honor to our men and women who paid the ultimate sacrifice and brought down Hitler and Tojo. This is not a small thing but a feat of daring and nobility that we should be eternally greatful every day of the year. Take your children down there and tell them how our Fathers and Uncles went into meat grinders to allow us all to carp about not having chicken wing buffet places on every corner of the Terminus. Reintroduce the great flag that once was the rallying point for the City of Buffalo. Educate more citizens by setting up paid tour guides who can better elaborate and explain the intricate details at the waterfront Terminus. That's what our National Parks do at historic battlefields. We have a terrific opportunity towards making attitude changes with younger citiizens. They are not as jaded and beaten down by the attitude of apathy and failure. Show them what Buffalo is capable of doing when innovation, invention, and determination comes into play. This is every reason why the Terminus is a treasure. It shows there are many wise people who reside here and place a value on education and our history. The Terminus tells a story without tunring a page or moving a cursor.

Now we can bike from Riverside to the Erie Basin Marina and find plenty of things to enjoy seeing. We can walk from the Erie Basin Marina to the Terminus and rediscover our history and waterfront. Kudos to Stan Swishers gardens. My wife always enjoys looking at the garden he tends each year. He really brightened up the Erie Basin Marina.

It is no longer boring to walk along or bike the City of Buffalo waterfront. Those who complain there is nothing to do on the Buffalo waterfront have been sitting on their butts too long and have become stodgy and seperated from our cities great history and it's fantastic waterfront. The crap you smell in the water is found in almost every harbour on this planet. Perhaps this learning experience will compell some of us to make the government spend more on cleaning up the water of the Great Lakes and coastal oceans and our great rivers instead of turning them into tiolets when it rains. I was walking some local beaches today along Lake Erie or The Lake of the Cat which was it's original name. There are shoreline algea blooms and dead fish and debris all along the coast. Heavy rainfall stresses the Terminus area as well as the entire Great Lakes.

people being so negative about this project are not only embarrassing them selves but also this website and the entire city of buffalo quite frankly. i understand frustration with the cost and length of the project but do you all not recall the litigation and law suits that stalled progress for years not months? give it a rest you complainers are depressing and pathetic

"What were the uses of the building foundatiions that stand there? Which building is Dug's Dive? Is it Dug or Doug? To better identify the structures would be more helpful to understand the site."

REZ -- The foundations that are uncovered once housed what was called the Steamboat Hotel during the early canal era; these structures progressively were later reused for small manufacturing uses as the retail core of the City moved north and the Central Wharf area became increasingly industrial. "Dug Dive" was a basement level tavern that has a sketchy history with regard to its actual location -- but there are some accounts that it once existed on the west side of the Commercial Slip around what is now a grassy sloped area near the pedestrian bridge. However, no foundations were found there to verify.

A good history of the site can be read in the Phase II/III Archaeological Report for the project at http://www.empire.state.ny.us/default.asp (click on the "Erie Canal Harbor" linked on the right of the page under "our subsidiaries").

just to comment on rayzors dump remark. The sign was talking about the Irish yes. But it clearly says "Eirie Canal"! The way your saying its written is called the Eire canal because thats the name of Ireland? That makes no sense? The history of the canal was the Irish manly built it! nothing else. They missed spelled Erie it's that simple.Go back and read the sign. Why would they call it the Ireland canal? when describing Irish immigrants. I read the sign it talks about how they worked on it, thats all.

Heathersmiles- The suburbs have not spent much on parks. Instead the dollars have gone for more roads to nowhere (think 990) and the inefficient infrastructure that is draining this region. As for the cost of demolitions, many of these homes were owned by SUBURBAN LANDLORDS.

Jolopy - Rayzor is absolutly right. The spelling "Eire" is correct!! Go to Buffalo Library and do some research on the canal and its origins.

Comparing this project to what they did in Baltimore is a joke. They have a real naval yard in baltimore, a world class Aquarium, plenty of history and great hotels, rerstaurants and bars all over, not to mention an NFL and MLB stadium right there. Are you people really believing that a Bass Pro Shop will turn things around?? What a joke...