I remember walking here to do book reports in grammar school from St Marks down the street. Always was busy and was a very nice library overall. It is a total shame that nothing, not even maintenance has gone into the structure. With such a stable neighborhood around it, it is a shame that this isn't going anywhere or sold. If offered I would bet that someone would snatch it up to convert to a couple apartments or even as a grand single family house. Has some nice land and good mature trees.

The city should really put this into private hands. The city / county has no business owning property like this. They just become forgotten about in the city's utterly dysfunctional real estate division. This like the ones on Main Street in Allentown are just waiting for the demo crew almost like the city wants it to happen.

1. I know that the city claims they need "market value" to sell these places, but since when is some arbitrary number market value? If you get offers on a place, aren't those offers an indication of what the market will bear? If the only offer is $1, isn't that market value?

2. I think Mickey Kearns has a staff person in a satellite office in one of the libraries that was slated to close in South Buffalo. That way, the building stays open (at least sometimes) without much additional cost. That might be one way to help keep others open, or at least make sure that they don't rot too long without someone noticing.

al, if someone bought this and somehow combined a business use, with a library, would this void it from being sanctioned by the American Library Association? How important to the average patron would this sanctioning be?

I'd consider doing some type of community center/libray, but I'd think the hours would be fewer than the standard library. I buy and sell a signiicant number of books each week. You'd be surprised on how inexpensively you could stock the shelves. You could have a certain 'rare' section that might not circulate, that would draw some people.

The flat roof on the right would seem to be the key. If its strong enough to support polystryrene (sp?) insulation, covered with 4x8 sheets and then torch down, that would be pretty easy. Obviously it could be more involved.

When this was a library, was parking an issue on the side streets?

al, thanks for the response. I checked the 'free ny' site, and have a better understanding of what you're referring to. Besides the political angle, they aren't afraid to ask for a donation, to the point it makes you question their motivation.

I'm beginning to wonder what is going on down at City Hall. Mayor Brown is turning out to be a bigger dud every day. Is he an improvement over mayor Tony? I don't think so. He fires Tobe, the first real economic development professional as Planning Director in Buffalo's history and after a long line of unqualified incompetent political hacks-what could the real reason be? Has the political pendulum swung in someone else's corner? Suddenly parking meters are removed from Elmwood and nothing is in place to accomadate alternative methods of transportation. Various buildings fall apart or are falling apart; churches are up for demolition. A beautiful building like the Fairfield library is left to rot. How did the county, responsible for the libraries, even the closed ones, end up handing this building over to the city? Any abandoned building has its copper piping grabbed at the first nightfall. Complaints are mounting and little is being done to address them. And Lo and Behold!!! The Control Board is being defanged. Mayor Brown loves to talk about all the investment going on in the city. Well, Mr. Mayor, if you want to see that continue and you don't want to demoralize the growing but fragile belief that Buffalo is finally getting up off the mat, lead the city and make those who work for do their jobs. All the no response or an hour later response from calls by middle class and/or new downtown residents to the police department, especially since there is a station at Main and West Huron, is going to put a big dent in downtown living unless it's taken more seriously. Ask yourself this question-the partments at 210 Ellicott rented out faster than anyone anticipated. This should tell you that there is a sizable amount of demand yet nothing new has beenb announced. What are you and your adminstration going to do to encorage more apartment and condo development downtown? I'm not ready to give up on Buffalo but I wonder if you are?

Al, I wouldn't have written the first post if I needed to rely on significant outside financing. I have experience rehabbing properties larger and older than this. I don't see this as a business proposal you could resaonably present with a straight face (to a bank or otherwise). As a 'breakeven/hobby/I've already got 5000 books in my house' this could be interesting.

Buffaloed, is it a 'yankee' gutter, rather than hanging on the outside, its 'built in'? Are the 5 spots in front available to this building?

I'd take a shot with this building. Anyone know John Hannon or how one could buy this property?

Hey al, I took a quick look around this morning. The flat roof with 'psuedo' yankee gutters, on the right part of the building is just asking for trouble. I can see how they wanted the addition to match the original, but I've never seen a gutter like that on a roof with no pitch. Kind of asking the water to run down the inside of the wall.

Digging to the right of the property that would need to be investigated.

I will look into this further. That being said, I'm not sure I'd publically comment on the proposed price, just seems like a lot of building, with some nice architectural detail, in a decent neighborhood.

I don't believe the price is holding it back, in fact, at 75k, it should of sold ages ago if the city was actively trying to sell this a jewel. For a such a poor, broke city, stories like this annoy me knowing there is money to be made by the city if they would just pull it together. But somehow, I think I'll poop a gold egg first.

onestar, I agree that the building is reasonably priced. Finding a profitable reuse is really the issue. The high cielings, etc. made it difficult for the library to keep it up (heat), same will be true for any potential buyer.

If you do have an idea for a big, high cieling reuse, the Catholic Church has a couple dozen opportunities for you. On the surface, any one of the churches would seem to be a bargain, from a 'what would it cost today to build' valuation. Valuation based on future cash flow, considering upkeep, makes these properties worth significantly less.

Hell for 75K I would buy this also... Talk about a potentially killer house. Close to a subway stop, enough land for your own geothermal heating, gardens, yard, walkable to the zoo a great grammar school, the park. As people have said the price isn't holding anyone back it the the sheer ineptitude that the real estate division in the city is.

Go ahead call them. I guarantee after 2 weeks you will be no closer to buying it than blogging on this site.

Free NY has been trying to acquire the building for several years with little or no cooperation from the City. We have offered to buy or rent but can't get to first base. They would prefer to have the building vacant and decaying I guess.

We have contacted various local colleges to become our partners in this project such that the library function would actually be administered by the college so the utmost professionalism would be maintained at all times.

I don't have time to respond fully right now but let me just say that Free NY is the best group to do this project because, frankly, we really do love Grover Cleveland. The more I find out about the man, the more I like him but I have admired him for years and said so in my 2004 book, well before this project was even thought of.

As I told my class at Canisius last semester, he was our last Jeffersonian president.

Follow this link for a recent documentary about all this:

http://blog.freeny.org/?p=3405

Our website is http://groverclevelandlibrary.org/

reflip, the real estate division has long been the dumping ground for political hacks. When the pressures gets put on inspections, permits etc etc nothing happens there you want to know why? Because developers and people who have politicians in their pockets aren't the ones champoining a cause. Get paladino on our side about that department and then maybe something would happen. Without money the city doesn't give a rats ass by this or any other property they own. Inspections work their butts off, so does the OSP and plan review but everyone I know in city hall has nothing but issues with the real estate division.

Why is it every time there is an article like this (which is all to often lately) there are pages of post of people outraged. but yet nothing is ever accomplished. I love this site and and everything it represents, but when the hell are we actually going to do something about it? I'm tired of reading about the the cities neglect towards it owns treasures and history. So the hell with them is there not some organization that we can form to control of these issues instead of wishing for city hall to do something while we watch bulldozers tear down the rest of the city.

bc71 - Both of those links just worked for me, so the URLs are correct. Maybe too many people tried accessing them at once when he first posted them.

JimO - If isn't too rude to ask (maybe it's public record eventually anyhow), was your group's offer price to the city at least in the ballpark of what's being discussed?

reflip --

PUSH is trying to get the city real estate department to actually help people buy city-owned properties. Check them out.

I think we need to back up. Is there some rule book about how presidential libraries operate? If so, send me a copy. Most of them are run to venerate some very mediocre men. Do you really believe they are run by some objective apolitical scientific panel? If so, I'd be shocked.

The fact is that there is no brick and mortar Grover Library and, before we came along, and the Presidential center people came along, no one was planning one. So, to suggest that it's a good idea but we should back off seems absurd to me. It was our idea and I think that counts for something.

That said, we intend to operate it according to the highest standards of professionalism in every sense. For example, we are planning a debate to promote the library: "Was Grover Cleveland a great President?" and we will seek a qualified scholar to argue that he wasn't.

Anyway, we intend to do this project, Fairfield or not. (We are already doing it on the web.). We just feel that the Fairfield is a great place for it for many reasons.

Thanks for the legal advice.

I took a quick look at the code of ethics cited above. I see no problems with it.

I don't toss around the term Jeffersonian lightly. You may recall that it was he who helped found the Library of Congress. The First Amendment, which protects the right to have libraries at all, was in large part a Jeffersonian creation.

So, again, this notion that a Jeffersonian think tank is unsuitable to found and run the first presidential library devoted to a Jeffersonian president, is an utter mystery to me.

Logically, such a library could be run by (1) Jeffersonians; (2) Hamiltonians, or (3) those who couldn't care less or don't know the difference. I choose option (1).

We refuse to accept government money of any kind by the way.

The president of the Bush Library is Brent Scowcroft, a Bush family flunky.

I think that pretty much destroys your thesis.

We refuse to accept government money of any kind by the way.

The president of the Bush Library is Brent Scowcroft, a Bush family flunky.

I think that pretty much destroys your thesis.

Anyway, Pretty sad about this building isn't it?

Jim,

If you don't accept public money, why would you attempt to 'rent' the property from the city? I may think there should be a library for Richard Petty, but I wouldn't say much about til I had the cash to make it fly.

I have a soft spot for your groups libertarian philosophy, but your approach has the ring of a vegetarian complaining that his hamburgers overcooked.

al-alo - A private foundation of Wilsonians operate the Woodrow Wilson Presidential Library. According to their web site it sounds like they disagree with your statement that all libraries are non-political and completely free of political motives.

http://www.woodrowwilson.org/about/about_show.htm?doc_id=428368

"Our Vision ...To ensure that Wilson's ideas and ideals related to public service, governmental responsibility and international engagement play an important role on the American and the world stages. ...

http://www.woodrowwilson.org/about/about_show.htm?doc_id=428368

. .to the end that the said property may be forever set apart as a National Shrine, dedicated to the aims, ideals and purposes for which Woodrow Wilson lived and died...

How is openly promoting Wilson's world view not political?

How would it be different to have Jim's group who promotes Grover Cleveland's views of small limited government operating a Grover Cleveland library? There should be a separation between funding of the library and anything else, but ideologically I don't see how having libertarians operate Cleveland's library is any different from having internationalists (or interventionists, or whatever one wants to call Wilson's views), operate Wilson's.

Are you going to start badgering the Wilson Library operators to cease and desist all political bias?

al-alo - It's not about what I think, but what they themselves say on their own web site. I didn't hack into it to type it.

As I said, use whatever names for Woodrow Wilson's views that you want. My point isn't to attack those views or disparage them. But it is a political philosophy and they make clear they're in favor of it, directly on the web site of that library. So does that make them a 'political group' according to your definition? Maybe so. How does it not?

About Cleveland Lib and FreeNY, time will tell what separations are put in place if the library ever happens. I'm not associated with either of those, never met Jim, etc. The groverclevelandlibrary.org page says: "Our application for tax exempt status is pending. If and when we are approved, we will begin to accept donations of Grover Cleveland books and memorabilia and look for a suitable location for the museum.", so maybe the details aren't final yet.

Keep us posted about what those Wilsonians say in reply to your complaint email.

We refuse to accept government money of any kind by the way.

The president of the Bush Library is Brent Scowcroft, a Bush family flunky.

I think that pretty much destroys your thesis.

We refuse to accept government money of any kind by the way.

The president of the Bush Library is Brent Scowcroft, a Bush family flunky.

I think that pretty much destroys your thesis.

We refuse to accept government money of any kind by the way.

The president of the Bush Library is Brent Scowcroft, a Bush family flunky.

I think that pretty much destroys your thesis.

Sorry about those last posts. I guess I refreshed my page after being out a few hours.

Kind of off topic here guys. It is getting tired.

Good grief, al-alo, if you want a G.C. library in Buffalo run YOUR WAY, then YOU should form a group to start one. Same goes for anybody. How many people or groups have ever started one in Buffalo? Let's see now... hmmm... zero! Okay so this guy says he wants to start one. As long as he follows the law, wtf business is it of anybody's what political philosophies he supports? If for some reason you don't trust him not to misuse donated funds, then don't donate.

The city should simply put the Fairfield building up for public auction.

If Jim's group is the highest bidder, so be it. If Ben Franklin is highest, that's fine too. Whoever bids on it should be told they'll be held to strict but fair building code enforcement, so they should take that into account when deciding how much to bid.

This shouldn't be some big controversy.

1. Why would what Jim proposes automatically be covered by all the rules that al-alo cites? I mean, I could open a "museum" in my living room if I wanted to. And a 501c3 organization has plenty of leeway in how it conducts its educational program.

2. The city should absolutely be selling this to the highest bidding qualified buyer. What the hell is wrong with John Hannon?

3. I'm hardly a libertarian, but I wish Jim (or whoever) good luck with this building.

Yikes, "best practices," I hate meaningless cliches. How about "running government like a business?"

Those who wish to help with the project, let me know. I'm easy to reach.

Jim, you are putting too much "Liberal" in libertarian. Running government like a business means applying governance and diligence to decisions, holding employees accountable for work performed and output generated. I understand your simplistic perspective that "Government isn't in the business of generating profit", but that doesn't mean that government should be in the business of waste and corruption either.

The city should not be in the business of sitting on properties in hopes of (maybe) one day getting a certain price that they pulled out of their ass. That's especially true when the property is rotting on their watch.

Jim has indicated that his group tried to buy the building. If he was turned down because someone else offered a better price, so be it. But that doesn't look to be the case, since it's still on the city's hands.

A big part of why people find the city real estate department so frustrating is these fantasy "market values" that they attach to city properties.

"Mr. Ostrowski doesn't want to take government money, but he wants the city to sell him, or his group, the library for next to nothing."

And the contradiction is? To give money is not to take money.

We asked the Council if they would sell us the vacant and deteriorating building for the city-appraised value of $75,000 and they refused.

We found out recently that parts of the ceiling fell off from water damage.

http://blog.freeny.org/?p=3179

I would agree with Colin's last point. With a property like this (that has value), you would think a well publicized auction would be the best and fairest way to reach a price. It removes even the appearance of some kind of favortism, then again, transparency doesn't seem to be a top priortiy with city hall.

I would think that any plaster in the front right section (flat roof) would be in danger of falling. While that's a problem, I would not put it on the scale of whats wrong with the livery. This is a sound structure, that had an addtion put on that was not as well designed as the rest of the building.

We did one of our studies that no one reads on the subject of running government like a business.

http://freenewyork.org/articles/newsalerts/News%20Alert%20No.%2017--Running%20government%20like%20a%20business.pdf

Government runs like a government. Business runs like business. It's the way things are. There is a lack of accountability built into the very nature of government. As Mao said, political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.

For example, will anyone in government pay a price for letting the Fairfield rot away?

For example, will anyone in government pay a price for letting the Fairfield rot away?

No Jim, probably not.. but they would if the government held employees accountable like.... a business.

They are not mutually exclusive.

If frogs had wings, they could fly.