Between the free Tuesday and Wednesday concerts at Artpark, the Thursday ones mentioned here, the Friday Molson Series in Lockport (Lou Gramm, Jeff Martin (Teas Party) known so far) , and the new promoter Saturday ones in Tonawanda....the summer is full of great summer out door shows.

Although people say a Labatt Blue place would not work, I think it would. Since New Era sells hats at stores around here and yet has their own store front. It could be another destination down at the inner harbor or even in the Key Center to play off off Chippewa. If they could locate it on th ecorner and iopen up the side of the Key Center to some life, it could make a nice bridge from Main (Theaters) to the Chippewa bars..

I can't wait to go see candlebox :) that's going to be fun! Who cares if they are old or new. I am sure they get the best bands for the money they have. (probably not a lot). Its free its perfect!

June 5th!!!

SO I heard that this year the hours for the square will go till 10pm, if i am not mistaken havent they ended at 9 in the past with beer sales ending at 830?

Wow, I didn't think Candlebox still existed. They were long gone from the scene by 1998, JibbaJabbah. Try 1995/6.

Mike Doughty will be cool. Galactic is pretty cool, as is MIke Gordon. Not a wash, and hearing Gin Blossoms will bring back some memories.

Let's not forget this is technically a free event. Buffalo Place only gets money off of beer sales and food, plus any sponsorships. I remember hearing last year with bad weather they lost a ton of money. If you want more progressive bands, they're gonna have to start charging, cause just because the show is free doesn't mean the artists do it for free. I'd rather have a free venue downtown to get together with friends for drinks with decent background music, than to have to pay money.

Urbanguy I agree 100% For me and all my friends and most of the people I know who go, this is more of a social gathering with friends and a few brews, than us going to see a concert, decent background music is on point. A bunch of us usually go every week, if it wasn't free, perhaps not so.

not to be too negative but way too heavy on the jam band variety........ and Candlebox? did Nelson have a prior commitment?

I'm sorry but when I saw Gin Blossoms on the line up, my eyes lit up. I saw them a fews years back @ club infinity - amazing show. I don't know what everyone's complaining about. Yes I know some of us haven't heard of half these bands (I know I havent... I'm only 28) but at least it brings the city together (for free!!) I'll see you guys in the square!

exciting....

Buffalo Place has plenty of cash to spend, they simply have a thing for the jammies. Maybe a green tea and patchouli stand would provide a bigger bang for the buck than beer.

Where's the cultural diversity in the acts? Of course music transcends all races, but it's strange to see no African American acts on the bill - but then again, I don't know all the bands, maybe I'm missing something.

It's a lack of diversity altogether with. How about a little Reggae, Soul, or something for our redneck friends. Isn't the idea not to just keep workers dowtown for the evening but to bring the suburbanites in? All these lineups do is bring Chippewa and Elmwood south for a few hours

Below is the lineup history for the series....note the repetition of acts (Specifically non-jam bands)

1993 6/24 - Goo Goo Dolls 7/29 - Heat Handlers

[edit] 1994 Goo Goo Dolls

[edit] 1995 10,000 Maniacs,The Skeptics

[edit] 1996 7/11 - Buckwheat Zydeco

[edit] 1997 7/10 - Moxy Früvous

[edit] 1998 5/28 - Switch, Flipside & the Legends of Rock-n-Roll 6/04 - Moxy Früvous, Skydiggers 6/11 - Mary Black, McCarthyizm 6/18 - Squeeze, Saw Doctors 6/25 - Molly Hatchet, N.Y. Rockn' Rodeo Band 7/02 - Reggae Cowboys, Electric Bushmen 7/09 - The Grass Roots, Fat Brat 7/16 - Buckwheat Zydeco, Skin Tight Band 7/23 - Great Big Sea, Michael Oliver & Go Dog Go 7/30 - Billy McEwen & Soul Invaders, Stone Bridge Band 8/06 - Lance Diamond, The Shadows with Barbara St. Clair 8/13 - Blue Rodeo, Scary Chicken 8/20 - Sass Jordan, Dolly Watchers 8/27 - Popa Chubby, Danny Lynn Wilson

[edit] 1999 5/27 - 54-40, Riley, By Divine Right 6/03 - The Flutie Brothers Band, R&B Revue 6/10 - Ron Hawkins and the Rusty Nails, The 7th Sons, Leon & The Forklifts 6/17 - Shawn Mullins, John Whelan 6/24 - Great Big Sea, Go Dog Go, Guster 7/01 - Lance Diamond, Wendell Rivera & The Latin Jazz All-Stars 7/08 - Paul Revere and the Raiders, Tom Stahl 7/15 - Kelly Willis, Steam Donkeys 7/22 - Billy McEwen & The Soul Invaders, Junction West 7/29 - Reverend Horton Heat, 53 Days, Irving Klaws 8/05 - The Marshall Tucker Band, Tommy Z 8/12 - Fighting Gravity, Bread Gone Wry, bag. 8/19 - Spirit of the West, Alison Pipitone, Universal Honey 8/26 - Spyro Gyra, Straight Forward

[edit] 2000 5/25 - Black 47, Jackdaw, Mudtown Rudy 6/01 - Tugboat Annie 6/08 - Moist, The Sheila Divine 6/15 - Robert Cray 6/22 - The Animals 6/29 - 54-40 7/06 - Blue Rodeo, Tara McLean, Alison Pipitone 7/13 - Kim Mitchell 7/20 - Burning Spear 7/27 - Sister Hazel 8/03 - Leahy 8/10 - Billy McEwen, Stone Ridge, The Swillberries 8/13 - George Thorogood & The Destroyers - Buffalo Place Rocks the Harbor 8/17 - Medeski, Martin & Wood 8/24 - Bruce Cockburn, Willie Nile 8/31 - Lance Diamond, C.O. Jones

[edit] 2001 5/24 - The Mighty Mighty Bosstones, The Imports, Mexican Cession 5/31 - Andy Griggs, The Steam Donkeys 6/07 - Kim Mitchell, Urban Renewal Band, Willie and the Reinhardts 6/14 - Jeff Healey Band, The Tommy Z Blues Power Trio 6/17 - Slash's Snakepit - Buffalo Niagara Guitar Festival 6/21 - moe., DJ Logic 6/28 - English Beat, Femi Kuti 7/05 - Billy McEwen, Cruizin' Deuces, The Stone Bridge Band 7/12 - David Wilcox, Alison Pipitone, Tom Stahl 7/19 - Bo Diddley, Animal Planet 7/26 - The Sheila Divine, The Push Stars, Crash Test Dummies 8/02 - Eddie Money, Rufus Maneuvers, The Swillberries 8/09 - Pat Benatar, Seven Day Faith, Blue Bullet Skater 8/16 - Great Big Sea, Jennifer Marie, Jackdaw 8/23 - Lance Diamond, C.O. Jones 8/30 - Donna the Buffalo, The Waz, Soulive

[edit] 2002 5/23 - Cowboy Junkies, Suzanne Vega 5/30 - Blood Sweat and Tears, David Clayton-Thomas 6/06 - The Divine Comedy, Ben Kweller, Ben Folds 6/13 - The Tommy Z Band, Rik Emmett 6/20 - Mark Stanley Band, The Filter Kings, Marcia Ball 6/27 - Jackdaw, Spirit of the West 7/11 - Jazz Mandolin Project, Derek Trucks Band 7/18 - Original Skin, Bob Fera Band, The Smithereens 7/25 - Junction West, Average White Band 8/01 - One World Tribe, Maxi Priest 8/08 - Klear, Lake Trout, Cracker 8/15 - Don McLean,Tom Stahl & the Dangerfields, Leah Zicari 8/22 - Katie Miller, Redheaded Stepchild, They Might Be Giants When the final group (They Might be Giants) was set to perform, the show was cancelled due to heavy rains. 8/24 - The Lowest of the Low, Universal Honey, McCarthyizm, Last Conservative - Buffalo Place Rocks the Harbor 8/25 - Peter Frampton, The Billy McEwen Band, Animal Planet, The Stone Bridge Band - Buffalo Place Rocks the Harbor 8/29 - CO Jones, Lance Diamond

[edit] 2003 5/29 - Living Colour, Antigone Rising, LP 6/05 - The Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Voodoo Glow Skulls, Pietasters, Catch 22 6/12 - Kim Mitchell 6/19 - 54-40, Luther Wright and the Wrongs 6/26 - Default, Finger Eleven 7/03 - Gord Downie & the Country of Miracles, Hawksley Workman 7/10 - Robert Randolph & the Family Band, Jeffrey Gaines 7/17 - They Might Be Giants 7/24 - Reel Big Fish, Gob, Zebrahead, The Matches 7/26 - The Tea Party - Buffalo Place Rocks the Harbor 7/27 - Foreigner, David Wilcox,Tom Stahl & the Dangerfields,Willy and the Reinhardts - Buffalo Place Rocks the Harbor NOTE: Cancelled due to severe weather

7/31 - North Mississippi All Stars, David Wilcox NOTE: David Wilcox performance was moved to 7/31 from originally scheduled date of 7/27. Flogging Molly was to have been the headliner, but their performance was moved to a nearby indoor venue (and a $5 fee charged) to accommodate the switch of the [David Wilcox]concert.

8/07 - G. Love & Special Sauce 8/14 - Aimee Mann 8/21 - Max Creek 8/28 - April Wine, Honeymoon Suite 9/04 - Sarah Slean, Universal Honey

[edit] 2004 5/27 - Sam Roberts, The Clarks, Scott Celani 6/03 - Black 47, Blackie and the Rodeo Kings, Tom Stahl and the Dangerfields 6/10 - Fuel, Seven Day Faith, Magna-Fi 6/17 - Kim Mitchell, Anjulie, Agent Me 6/24 - Robert Randolph & the Family Band, The Tommy Z Band 7/01 - Blue Rodeo, Universal Honey, Old Sweethearts 7/08 - The Fabulous Thunderbirds, Willie & the Reinhardts 7/15 - Spirit of the West, Enter the Haggis, Andy Mac 7/22 - Leon Russell, Billy McEwen Band 7/29 - Arrested Development, Lazlo Hollyfield 8/05 - Broken Social Scene, John Brown's Body (Sound Tribe Sector 9 was originally slated but cancelled and replaced with BSS) 8/12 - Vince Neil, Sanity, Last Days of Radio 8/19 - Gavin DeGraw, Toby Lightman, Marc Broussard 8/26 - Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes, Universal Grille 9/02 - Klear (featuring Robby Takac), Last Conservative, Juliet Dagger

[edit] 2005 5/26 - Southside Johnny, Asbury Jukes, Gamalon 6/02 - Theory of a Deadman, Submersed 6/09 - Karl Denson's Tiny Universe, The Dears, Marjorie Fair, Jon Nicholson 6/16 - Howie Day, Stephen Kellogg and the Sixers 6/23 - Eric Burdon & The Animals, Cock Robin, Dollywatchers 6/30 - Little Feat, Stone Bridge Band 7/07 - Sarah Harmer, Hothouse Flowers, Maria Sebastian 7/14 - Dr. John, Leeron Zydeco & The Hot Tamales 7/21 - G. Love and Special Sauce, State Radio 7/22 - moe. - Buffalo Place Rocks the Harbor 7/23 - Hootie & The Blowfish - Buffalo Place Rocks the Harbor 7/28 - Lowest of the Low, The Marble Index 8/04 - Lou Gramm, Willie Nile 8/11 - Great Big Sea, Stand 8/18 - John Waite, McCarthyizm 8/25 - The Sam Roberts Band, Matt Mays & El Torpedo 9/01 - Violent Femmes

[edit] 2006 5/25 - Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, BeArthur 6/01 - Smash Mouth, Army of Me, Agent Me 6/08 - Mike Doughty's Band, Stephen Kellogg and the Sixers 6/15 - Soulive, Bedouin Soundclash 6/22 - Blues Traveler, Carbon Leaf 6/29 - 54-40, The Trews 7/06 - India.Arie, Eric Crittenden 7/13 - Jeff Martin, Burning Paris 7/20 - Shooter Jennings, The Brakes 7/27 - Robert Randolph and The Family Band, Drive-By Truckers (Aqualung and Lazlo Hollyfield were replaced for unknown reasons) 7/29 - Buddy Guy, Kelley Hunt, Grace Potter and the Nocturnals - Buffalo Place Rocks the Harbor 7/30 - Gov't Mule, David Gogo - Buffalo Place Rocks the Harbor 8/03 - Violent Femmes, Stand, Mark Norris and the Backpeddlers 8/10 - Yonder Mountain String Band, Down To The Roots 8/17 - Donna the Buffalo, Tea Leaf Green 8/24 - Sloan, The Alison Pipitone Band, Johnny Nobody 8/31 - Eric Burdon and the Animals, Tom Stahl & the Dangerfields, The Ifs

[edit] 2007 5/31 - Umphrey's McGee, Tea Leaf Green 6/07 - Son Volt, Just Jinjer, Dali's Ghost 6/14 - Augustana, Army of Me, As Tall As Lions 6/21 - Violent Femmes, Mobile, theRev 6/28 - Joan Osborne, Will Hoge 7/05 - Sam Roberts Band, Grace Potter and the Nocturnals 7/12 - An evening with moe. 7/19 - Nickel Creek, Glen Phillips 7/26 - Old 97's, Yonder Mountain String Band 8/02 - John Butler Trio, Melissa Ferrick 8/09 - Keller Williams, Jonah Smith 8/16 - Soul Asylum, The Alternate Routes 8/23 - North Mississippi Allstars, The Wood Brothers 8/30 - The Dirty Dozen Brass Band, Benevento-Russo Duo 9/06 - The Romantics, Stephen Kellogg and the Sixers 9/13 - Anders Osborne, Charlie Hunter Trio 9/20 - Dropkick Murphys, Jackdaw

[edit] 2008 5/29 - Galactic, The New Deal 6/05 - The Disco Biscuits 6/12 - Yonder Mountain String Band 6/19 - David Sanborn Group, Gamalon 6/26 - Martin Sexton, Mike Doughty Duo 7/03 - Jakob Dylan and the Gold Mountain Rebels 7/10 - Jimmie Vaughan, JJ Grey & MOFRO 7/17 - Mickey Hart Band, Tea Leaf Green 7/24 - The Gin Blossoms, The Common Kings, Dan Erickson 7/31 - Spirit of the West, Babik, Penny Whiskey 8/07 - Zappa plays Zappa, The Whigs 8/14 - Mike Gordon, Samantha Stollenwerck 8/15 - Great Big Sea - Buffalo Place Rocks the Harbor 8/16 - Robert Cray Band, Keb' Mo' - Buffalo Place Rocks the Harbor 8/21 - Saliva, Klear 8/28 - Candlebox, Agent Me 9/04 - Big Head Todd and the Monsters, Indigenous

I do know Robert Cray is black (and plays an amazing show, according to my friends). However, one out of 18 headlining performers this summer being African-American is a little weak...especially in a city where certain populations feel very alienated.

Don't forget, Robert Cray is not performing at the in-the-sqare series. He is at Rock the Harbor. If you look back at the history of the series, the African American performers listed are popular blues performers. Cray, Buddy Guy (at the Harbor) Keb Mo, Robert Randolph. Not exactly what you will find on WBLK.

Having said that, there are a couple shows that I will make it to.

Zappa plays Zappa tops the list. No was it can top there show at the Town last year and it will be a great loss if they can't pull off the guitar duels with Frank due to being outdoors.

Next, David Sanborn....smooth

Third, Jacob Dylan. The Wallflowers were a bit underrated and put on an amazing show at Buff State a while back.

Galactic may be a throw in. Caught them at the New Orleans Jazz Fest....good stuff...but the atmospere certainly helped.

The rest....I might just randomize some dead boots on my Ipod and hit the porch.

Yes the whining and complaining is the same as last year. That simply shows that Buffalo Place hasn't taken last years' drop in attendance to heart. As long they remain focused solely on jam bands with a couple of repeats to fill the schedule, they will continue to lose attendees to Artpark and others....

Of course, these lineups are right up a stoked/melty-faced/lightly toasted individual's alley.

Myopic?

A free concert series "20 miles down the road," doubles its dates while Buffalo Place bemoans a drop in attendance. My Myopia's gots some guns!

I have not stated a single band that I would like to see. I simply would like to see some variety.

As for the Classic rock rant; Kansas drew 10,000 to canalfest recently. It doesn't make it right, but I got a fin says Kansas fans have more Beer money than fans of the Yonder Mtn String Band.

The idea of the series is to provide an economic shot-in-the-arm, not to break new ground musically. 97 rock has been a monster forever (Once again, doesn't make it right) and I can't get WBNY in from my place on Potomac, but it is what it is and as long as the LCD is where the money is it shouldn't be scoffed at.

Toughinthestreets

1+2) I have requested a copy of Buffalo Place's annual report BP's website states that its operating budget is 2.9 million with 55% of revenues coming from marketing and special events. Not sure what to read from those numbers but given the obvious limitations of the square area and the percentage of revenues coming from events (name any other BP events remotely the scope of the square series) , it likely behooves them to fill the square as cheap as possible (Probably why they look for groups like Great Big Sea and book them by the baker's dozen)

Bands do ,obviously, tour more heavily in the summer. The argument can cut both ways though...the bands can make the money now or not make it in February and there are plenty out there.

3) I used Buffalo Places own statements regarding attendance so the methodology is moot and bad weather was not blamed by BP, the casinos were?!?

4) "Perhaps the lineup they chose reflects music genres they believe generate the most revenue for them. Wouldn't that make sense? If your best revenue generating concerts are those that feature "jam bands" or rock bands or whatever... wouldnt you try to book more of those the following year? "

Yes you would, and if you lost attendance with your choice (Predominantly Jam Bands last year, attendance down) would you not revisit it the following year? (Predominantly Jam Bands this year, guess not)

5) They only bring Elmwood and Chippewa South for a little while? No way! If its nice, Go down to Chippewa next Thursday. See how busy it is. Then go again a few Thursdays later and see how big of a difference there is in the amount of people.

And Elmwood? or Hertel? or Main Street? Do you not think the Square takes from them?

Hopefully I nwill have the actual numbers fairly quickly. Big plus having BP as a non profit, we can actually glean some answers as opposed to just pissing against the wall.

i just hope they retain enough zappa personality in the current line up. You gotta have Napoleon Murphy Brock and or Ike Willis.

Don't mean to go off topic but...We seriously need some decent hip-hop venues in this city. I swear, the hip-hop community gets little to no love in the Lo.

does it really matter that much who is playing? I know that myself, along with all my friends that go to the square rarely focus on the talent on the stage. it's all about hanging out with friends, outdoors....downtown.

Tough,

you really must focus.

Toughinthestreets,

Your statments are quoted, and followed with a reply.

"From what I could decipher from your rambling I believe you proved my point.... 2.9 million operating. That means operating their ENTIRE company. Including salaries and benefits for their employees as well as all upkeep on main street etc etc etc. Which really doesn't leave much to spend on bands now does it? So brining in bigger more diverse acts is probably difficult for them to do. I'm guessing they did the best they could with what they had. "

I qualified the 2.9 number by stating that I do not know what that number actually is until they provide me with the annual report. What we can do, however, is deduce probable numbers from statements made by Buffalo Place (BP from here on out)

BP claims that TATS provides a 4.5 million dollar injection into the downtown economy. They also state that for every dollar they spend on TATS, more than $6 goes to the community. (I believe the actual number was 6.35 but 6 makes for lighter math) OK? If we use those numbers we have a $750,000 investment by BP. $50,000 for each of the 15 weeks.

Last year I had access to a search engine that provided all the info that Booking agents, venues, and the like, have access to and I could access cost of talent using that tool. Unfortunately, I don't have that anymore but I do recall that They Might Be Giants were approximately $15000. TMBG are, arguably, a good barometer for the level of act that plays the square. They have played it twice and played the Town Ballroom last year. (If you look at the acts that play the Town, you will find an overlap with the square and therefore another correlation) Let's take that TMBG number of 15k and and add another 10k as a little benefit of the doubt to BP. That leaves 25k per week to spend after the cost of the performers. It would be tough to argue that it costs any more than(or even as much as) that 25k to pay for the remaining costs each week. (Security, Workers, Staging, etc) There is your 50k for any given week.

"As for your point about bands making money in the summer or not making it in february? I don't even understand what your trying to get at. Please clarify."

Earlier you stated

"2) You have to keep in mind that summers are when most bands tour heavily so I'm guessing the lineup is based on availability and cost. Ever try to get a band to play a show? Its not cheap. And if its a fly-by date? Crazy!"

According to Billboard.biz-

With more than 200 tours and festivals taking the stage, summer will be a scorcher. May 17, 2008 - BillboardMagazine

and

With some 70% of all touring activity, summer is make-or-break time for the live business, now the primary revenue generator for acts and the music industry alike.

My argument is that there is more supply than demand in the summer and therefore less competition. (Probably why an upstart in the free concert series like Artpark can double their dates) You play every day of the summer or it's going to be a long cold winter. (Also, I have looked into booking shows and it is my experience that it is actually cheaper than I would have thought going in. Certainly not crazy!)

"My point with the weather was that its possible (i dont remember) that many of the thursdays were poorly attended last year due to bad weather. So how would they know what their revenue could have been for these bands if they were rained out last year? And if they judge attendance by revenue and last year was a particularly rainy year wouldn't that effect their attendance numbers? you again make no sense regarding "moot" numbers or casinos"

Once again, I can only use what BP publicly states. THEY stated that revenues/attendance did not meet expectations for the first time. THEY did not use weather as an excuse. THEY blamed competition from the casinos. Because it is their word I am using, the methodology they used to come up with their analysis is MOOT. If you run an event over each week of summer for a multitude of years, I am pretty sure you will already have weather factored in, which is most likely why they DID NOT MENTION WEATHER when speaking of the downturn.

"I think anything that the square takes from Hertel, main, and elmwood is marginal. Didn't you just say the point of TATS is an economic shot? Its not just shifting the same people from one place to another its drawing in MORE people who wouldn't normally be down there. So no I don't think it hurts them all that much. I wouldn't be surprised if it actually helped them"

This is an argument that I am not on as strong a footing. The business taken from Hertel and Main may be marginal or it may, as you query, help them One would have to check with their business associations to get a better idea. What I would love to see is a breakdown of visitors from outside of the city period. If Artpark's attendance continues to rise and TATS has another year that doesn't meet expectations and leaves their leadership speaking of TATS having "peaked," you could really see some change.

I have no disdain for TATS and even listed the 3-4 shows that I will definitely be attending. I just wonder if BP and this great event couldn't use a bit of a shake up. There can be no argument made that this isn't predominantly a jam band line up now. (Nor can one be made that it isn't becoming a tad repetitive)

The numbers used above gave a generous break to BP. I would be absolutely floored if the average cost of acts ran 25k a week, or if the remaining costs each week ran the additional 25k. On top of that, we haven't even broached how much the 11 sponsors put in or the revenue from concessions. BP states that 55% of their revenues comes from marketing while 48% of their expenses goes to marketing. Until we have the annual report we really don't know what that means. The pie charts provided at BP.com simply don't tell us much.

hell, I forgot BP's extra bonus of "Rocks The Harbor!. Take 2 of the acts that would normally fit the traditional level of a Thursday headliner and move them to the water.....and charge folks. Maybe I missed where Robert Cray and Great Big Sea have exploded in popularity to the point that they are separated from the rest. Cray's "Strong Persuader," is going on 25 years old and Great Big Sea, is, well, Great Big Sea. Maybe it's a reward for playing TATS 5 times. If that's the case, Jackdaw and Lance Diamond only have one freebie to go!

As an aside, nothing I say is to put down any of the acts.For example, Robert Cray is incredible. I saw him open for Clapton once and saw him at the square. But these acts are what they are....

for fun while watching Lebron versus the Celtics-

Taking the lineup from TATS at Pollstar.com you can click on each act and see where they are playing. If you then click on those venues, you can get an idea of who would be a proportionate act.

Here are some that would seemingly fit TATS budget (I am trying to emphasize diversity and understand scheduling issues are not taken into account)

Duran Duran The Black Crowes (now booked at the Town) George Clinton and P Funk Little Richard The Wailers Wilco The Strawbs Acoustic Alchemy Rickie Lee Jones Ratdog (plays here quite frequently already and a jam band) Ani Difranco (who knows with er own place and all) Nanci Griffith Daryl Hall Bruce Hornsby (At UB last fall) Steve Earle Rilo Kiley The Raconteurs

My arguent has their costs at 50k

I have not claimed any band was better musically than any other band, in fact, I have stated that it was unfair for others to do so. You qualify "better," bands to mean more expensive. I listed 15 or so bands that would be proportionate in costs to the current schedule. I do think it is safe to say, however, that my hypothetical lineup of cost proportionate acts would have generated much more excitement than the actual schedule.

Also, if the costs aside from talent did happen to be more than 25k a week (Highly unlikely) than the "generous," number of 25k I allocated for talent (5-10k more than I assume they pay) would still balance out the total expenses and my 50k budget still works- beating down the argument that BP is hamstrung by costs (continually bearing in mind that we aren't even armed with real numbers as to what sponsorship and concessions provide monetarily).

Perhaps there accountants out there who could assist with this but my somewhat educated guess has BP generating, at the very least , 350k for their own coffers. I have no problem with that, and actually believe they deserve it. But they do need a shake up. Even if they had simply made a better effort with just the "Rocks the Harbor," bands ....

In truth, I do enjoy delving into the numbers. I have seen over 600 shows in my life in over 10 states and five countries.Besides, didn't BP's mother tell it you can always try harder?

Seems the News has picked up on the 'diversity' issue.

The hypothetical line-up I posted contained The Wailers (Reggae), George Clinton and P-Funk (Self Explanatory) and Little Richard (also Self Explanatory) as well as country to go with the jazz, blues, jam, rock, alternative genres actually represented.

I have not received the annual report yet but do have the 06 tax returns. I am not positive on how to read certain items but it looks as though each week's expenses fell between $45,000 and $56,000. 2006 is a good year to compare as it had the same number of shows and 2 shows at the harbor included. It also appears that the series made between $250,000 and $375,000. (or 14,700-22,058 a week)

Once again, however, these numbers can't be precise and there are still too many questions. One interestin g note, to me anyway, the total monies paid to employess was right around $500,000 not including benefits. The director accounted for around 33% of that.

I really think Buffalo could host a larger festival as there seems to be a wide swath of area from Columbus -Long Island (east-west) and Toronto-Philadelphia (north-south) without a large music festival.

2006 only featured 3 jam bands (Govt Mule, Yonder Mtn, and Donna the Buffalo). 2007 featured (in which BP stated spoke of declining numbers) had 7 jam bands! This year, the series actually starts off its first 3 weeks hitting the pipe with a few dispersed amongst the remaining schedule.

Oh...and 2006 had a diverse line up with Indi Arie and Shooters Jennings as well as a Classis Rock Band (Eric Burdon)

2007 had no r&b and no classic rock

It once again, seems to me, too many jambands spoil the broth...