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  1. STEEL

    1 ratings12345
    Apr 15th, 20:41

    Actually if you read the article it says that the lecture is about the skyscraper in general followed by a tour of Buffalo high rises of which Buffalo has at least 4 stellar examples from various periods - Dunn, Guaranty, City Hall, and M&T. I am just not understanding what all the nit picking is about on this story.

  2. STEEL

    1 ratings12345
    Apr 15th, 20:38

    Actually if you read the article it says that the lecture is about the skyscraper in general followed by a tour of Buffalo high rises of which Buffalo has at least 4 stellar examples from various periods - Dunn, Guaranty, City Hall, and M&T. I am just not understanding what all the nit picking is about on this story.

  3. distas

    1 ratings12345
    Apr 16th, 08:55

    Great idea Joshua! Why dont we plant some skyscraper seeds and watch them just pop out of the $%cking ground! Then all of our probems are solved. I know a guy named jack you can buy some beans from.

  4. georgethomasapfel

    1 ratings12345
    Apr 16th, 01:53

    To further expand on STEEL's comments, Buffalo also has the Ellicott Square Building, largest office building in the country when complete in 1896 (also home to the fist dedicated motion picture theater in the world.) Also consider the Rand Building, which has been considered a prototype for the Empire State Building - more evident when you view the two side-by-side:

  5. STEEL

    3 ratings12345
    Apr 15th, 17:46

    Actually SleepL8 - Buffalo had a prominent role in the development of the "skyscraper" That term, I think, Actually came from the period in the 20's and 30's when pointy topped tall buildings appeared to scrape the sky.

    As far as Buffalo goes - The Guaranty Building is widely credited as being perhaps the most influential building in the early development of the high rise form. You can even see its influence in the cladding of the M&T building built about 80 years apart. So yes, Buffalo is relevant to the history of the skyscraper. As a matter of fact the MCA in Chicago did a big highrise retrospective a few years back which included the Guaranty.

    Balth - The courthouse setbacks have nothing to do with land value. If that was the case it would be a one story building. the Courthouse setbacks are due to new terrorism guidelines for federal buildings. The original scheme for this building was on Court street which would have occupied the entire site.

  6. Balth

    1 ratings12345
    Apr 15th, 18:28

    STEEL, I know about the terrorism thing, and I know that the U.S. Courthouse is not a skyscraper by today's standards, I was merely suggesting that in THIS city, you can buy as much land as you want. I was sort of confused by the headline... "Modern Buffalo Lecture", which by all accounts, can be an entirely interesting topic. But the facts used in the article state that skyscrapers were born from high land values, which at the turn of the century, are completely true about this city. But the rational about high land values = skyscraper, just doesn't get me to the modern skyscrapers that grace this city. This lecture could be titled in many ways: "Buffalo and the birth of the skyscraper" OR "Buffalo's Modern Architecture" OR "Buffalo, the King of Mid-rise Building Hell"...

    What does get me there is the fact that the Dun Building and the M&T Building share a common structural type, and there is where one can base a lecture on.

  7. Balth

    4 ratings12345
    Apr 15th, 17:23

    While other cities had skyscrapers born from high land prices (New York and Chicago)... Buffalo certainly does not fit that description. Our modern skyscrapers have vast amounts of land surrounding them... such as the HSBC tower, One M&T Plaza, Key "Towers" and the like. One cannot discern where the plaza begins and where the public right of way ends at HSBC tower, for instance. One could say that Buffalo's modern skyscrapers came about from government subsidies and urban renewal practices, not high land prices. Now we are stuck with some modern buildings that are amidst concrete islands, lowering the density of downtown. This trend is continuing with the construction of the U.S. Courthouse, with the 50 foot setback from the right of way on Niagara Square.

  8. informed_consumer

    2 ratings12345
    Apr 15th, 17:23

    If they spin this lecture to include the fact that the buildings designer is the same as the World Trade Center - it could spice things up!

  9. SLEEPL8

    4 ratings12345
    Apr 15th, 16:08

    Buffalo skyscrapers? This is like doing a lecture on the history of musical instruments at the kazoo factory in Eden.

  10. Joshua

    0 ratings12345
    Apr 16th, 08:05

    Why not have anoher skyscraper? This would make another great addition to the Buffalo skyline!

  11. davvid

    0 ratings12345
    Apr 15th, 17:14

    Is this a lecture in Buffalo about skyscrapers or a lecture about skyscrapers in Buffalo?

  12. RisingDamp666

    0 ratings12345
    Apr 17th, 15:00

    The skyscraper was part of a business model that evolved as service sector employment began to boom. Large companies valued their centralized locations and access to urban infrastructure as they needed to house more and more employees for their growing operations. The best skyscrapers are the narrative ones from the 1920's such as the Radiator Building and the General Electric Tower in New York. These not only sprang up to house major businesses, but, as single-tennant builds, their architecture encompassed visual references to their respective businesses. What has killed the skyscraper in the U.S. is the suburban campus model where the location is more convenient to where directors live, and the rise of office automation that allowed companies to shed hundreds and thousands of jobs. You can now effectively run a multi-billion dollar company from a 3 story suburban office building. Now we have residential high rise filling in the gaps. It would be interesting to see a reversal where, as commercial users leave urban cores, residential users flood in and turn the tables on the suburbs. We are, despite the latest trends, a long way from this.

  13. NewBuffalo

    0 ratings12345
    Apr 16th, 05:51

    when does a tall building become a skyscraper? over 20 stories? 30 stories? if so Buffalo has one.

  14. JohnMarko

    0 ratings12345
    Apr 16th, 13:53

    On the idea that all the structures are alike, that couldn't be more wrong.

    Even tho the photo example of Minoru Yamasaki's M&T Building and the World Trad Center in NYC look alike and are designed by the same person - they couldn't be more different structurally.

    While the M&T Building has a steel skeleton that supports the exterior facade, the WTC's facade was actually STRUCTURAL and was part of the "tube" concept of a high-rise building, and is the outer ring of structural suppor for those buildings. Which is also one of the reasons that the WTC failed so spectacularly since close to 1/3 of the outer suppor of the towers were eliiminated by the planes...

    Incidentally, Minoru Yamasaki had a "fear" of heights and purposely designed his high-rise building window bays narrow so that psychologically, if not physically, one cannot "fall thru" the space created by the exterior mullions.

    There is also that "tree" concept in that the members are larger and farther apart near the ground and "branch out" as you go up the building like the trunk and branches of a tree...

  15. sbrof

    0 ratings12345
    Apr 16th, 08:47

    I would think that anything over 10-15+ stories would be considered a skyscraper. Once you are forced to move away from the structural systems of the past (aka masonry and concrete) into steel like the article mentioned that was the birth of the skyscraper as we know it. The Rookery in Chicago is long held as the precursor to the modern skyscraper, one of the tallest masonry load bearing structure before the modern steel skeleton was developed. I don't remember exactly offhand but the walls on the ground floor of the structure are 4-6 foot thick to bear the weight of the above structure.

    www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/burnham/rookwhole.jpg

    It isn't as much about height but as structural systems. hence why buffalo does have skyscrapers and a good decent selection from many different era's. Also why I can't wait for the Gate's condo's, Issa's tower or 200 Delaware to finish because it will bring a new form to the skyline. The glass tower is something missing, in my opinion, from our architectural collection.

  16. RPreskop

    0 ratings12345
    Apr 16th, 20:06

    I like the two comparison photos of Buffalo's Rand Building and New York's world famous Empire State Building and yes despite their tremendous height difference, there is some similarity to their building tops. Those where very outstanding photos. Now if we would only change the way we do business here in WNY and cut our high taxes, probably more business would move in and we would probably see the design and construction of new skyscrapers in downtown Buffalo. Until this region changes its course, the downtown skyline will remain stagnant for the forseeable future. I would love to see another 30 or 40 story skyscraper rise in downtown Buffalo, but we need greatly increased demand on the marketplace in order to do a major, expensive skyscraper project. Right now demand for that type of space is virtually non-existant.

  17. LivingForge

    0 ratings12345
    Apr 15th, 20:55

    You can see a lot of the aesthetic of the World Trade Center Towers in Yamasaki's M&T building.

  18. JohnMarko

    0 ratings12345
    Apr 16th, 14:03

    OK - who took the "T"s from my computer keyboard!!!

    not to mention a couple "e"s, etc...

    will there ever be a tool on BR where we can go back an edit a post to correct for errors?

  19. TDSBLO

    0 ratings12345
    Apr 15th, 21:48

    And guys, don't forget we have a great example of "minimalist" architecture with 200 delaware. :)

  20. BfloZ

    0 ratings12345
    Apr 17th, 10:21

    Regarding the price of land issue, the article states that it was in the ninetheenth century when prices were skyrocketing. Given Buffalo's boomtown status in the gilded age of that century it makes sense that prices were high. We all know the economic straits the city is in currently...

  21. LivingForge

    0 ratings12345
    Apr 15th, 22:17

    While it certainly isn't a skyscraper, the Gordon Bunschaft addition to the A-K is certainly an important piece of Buffalo's claim on architectural modernism.

  22. RPreskop

    0 ratings12345
    Apr 18th, 19:53

    The major cause behind the decline of not only the modern skyscraper but of downtown business areas and business strips in older inner ring suburbs is the complete overdependence on the automobile. Lets face reality, most Americans insist on having a parking space right in front of their office so they can come and go without any inconvenience. God forbid that we should expect today's office workers and executives to walk one to three blocks from a downtown parking garage to their office and get some much needed exercise in the process. This rapid rise of these inefficient, isolated, campus-like office parks is just another contribution to Americans demand for parking right in front of my office so I do not have to walk any distance. We wonder why this country is experiencing serious health problems such as obesity and heart related problems. It is because of our addiction to the automobile. Everything has to be right where we can drive a car right up to and not have to walk any length. This is one of the major reasons why many commercial users have left downtown and moved out to the outermost suburbs where their is little or no restriction on automobile use and yes closer to where most of the executives and other workers live so as to cut their travel time to and from work. It is not only computerized automation that has killed downtown locations, it is the demand for convenience and easy auto access that are the larger more significant causes to the skyscrapers unpopularity with many commercial users. Also keep in mind the cost factor. It is much cheaper to operate out of a suburban office campus than it is to operate out of a downtown skyscraper and even an old inner ring suburban business strip.