please do not bring another walmart to wny...for everyone's sake
Could Buffalo use more entrepreneurs and small businesses? Of course!!!!!
Will Buffalo be hurt by the big retail giants? Well yes and no so let me explain. Buffalo is an incredibly poor, shrinking and relatively stupid/uneducated/illiterate/non-techology focused city even compared to Rochester one hour east. Now just hold on remember I am a Buffalonian so let me say my piece.
The only reason Buffalo has the Airport handling 6 million visitors, and the retail and many other businesses is due to the patronage of the canadians who find it cheaper and believe it or not more convenient. Without the canadians Buffalo wouldnt even have the population or the wealth to attract the walmarts and k-marts that it has now much less higher end retail....and without the canadians Buffalo would have higher fairs than Rochester no doubt.
So Buffalo really has to be cost competitive not just locally but with canada also....and that means that we need a two prongued approach of supporting our small business to viable at the neighborhood and community level like say Geurcios and carve their niche out so they dont compete with the big box stores.
Now after saying this why did I have to put Buffalo down by saying its "relatively stupid/uneducated/illiterate/non-techology focused" because when people think of small business in Buffalo they think restaurants, retail and hair dressers. In other words low capital and low education.
Buffalonians need to think of small business in terms of high technology, high education, high value services across wide swaths of industry and business. The fact that we Buffalonians think in terms of the lowest intelligence/lowest skill/lowest education/lowest value/lowest technology possible says why we are continuing to fail as a 21st century city.
By the way...maybe Buffalos economy will improve, I hear the big texas hair of the 70s and 80s is coming back which ought to put thousands of high school dropout hair dressers to work.
It is an interesting question. Will they help the city or hurt it. What about the many smaller stores that complain about loss of customers once a wal-mart moves in. Would they bring in new people to an area that would normally make the extra effort to go there or do they just provide a convenient place to skip over local stores. I tend to think that because of their heavy reliance on foreign products and the less than stellar pay rates they are not probably the best thing to move into the city. A bass pro isn't either but at least it is only one segment of the retail world where a wal-mart would undercut everything from gifts to groceries sending 3x more money than locally owned store out of the region. I think that number is staggering from the article. 60 Million dollars a year. That means every year we sent away ~51 million dollars vs 33 mil for locally owned stores. A difference of about 18 million dollars a year for just in ONE BUSINESS. Imagine how many small businesses that could go to supporting, how much retail in the city of suburbs that would support or how many families that could provide for.
Local stores also employ more people per million dollars in revenue. "For every $1 million in sales, independent toy stores create 2.22 local jobs, while chains create just 1.31. " or "national big box retailer operating in Midcoast Maine returns just 14.1 percent of its revenue to the local economy, while locally owner store spent 45% of their money within the same county."
These are just a couple examples of studies done, New York might have a different ration than Maine since I have a feeling that we produce / grow and larger wider range of products than Maine could. Is something better than nothing in downtown. Sure I would agree I just think about how many millions of dollars are being spent every day at the Galleria or chain places and wonder if our economy is hurting as badly as it is simply because of our choice to not support our own. We always need export or base industries and we will always need larger national stores to bring in goods we can't produce here, but shifting just 10-20% of our spending to local shops would probably send huge ripples of wealth back into our own economy.
OK, yea, people either looooove Wal-Mart or hate Wal-Mart. I realize businesses are in business for one reason: to make money. That being said, I've noticed a pattern at one particular Wal-Mart. Every month, around the last couple of days until the first few days of the following month, one particular location raises the prices on dairy products. After say, the 5th, the prices go back to the lower prices. This location happens to be accessible by NFTA, and is close to the city line. I wonder what would happen if a Wal-Mart actually did open in the city. I also wonder if anyone else noticed a similar phenomenon at any other stores.
these are the jobs replacing the Delphi, GM, Ford and any other good paying job that have left or are leaving. The last 50 yrs have seen the average american improve his/her lifestyle with good paying jobs with overtime. As the $30 hr jobs leave post industrial america this is what we are left with. Low paying service jobs. Wall mart is one of the many. It was good while it lasted. Say goodbye to the middle class as kids today graduate with so much college debt that they can not pay off until their 30's. Reganomics started this push 25 years ago and the results are now showing as the rich get extremely rich and the average slob struggles and can barely afford health insurance. Capitalism is a wonderfull thing? If walmart cared about americans they have the money to privide a national health care system.
I don't understand why Wal-Mart would want a store in the city. They already have stores scattered through the suburbs. However, should a Wal-Mart force its way in, it would present a crossroads for the city. It just depends on where they put it and what it looks like. If it looks like every other wal-mart store (which is most likely) then we're doomed.
However...there is opportunity for something different. The front of a Wal-Mart supercenter tends to be shops anyway. The doctor's office, the eye glass store, a Subway, a photo shop, the grocery store, etc. Although, they're all contained behind blank walls. If you put the store basically on a city block you could arrange it so that the front of the store has windows for each individual shop to give it a retail-storefront appearance. Basically make the Wal-Mart an urban retail block in and of itself. The only skin off Wal-Mart's back is that it looks slightly different than all their other stores. But innovation is supposed to be what they're good at. Plus, in my mind, this could fulfill the need for a grocery store in an underserved area, which is a big deal.
Now, having said that, I fully understand that this might squash whatever existing locally owned businesses were trying to germinate in whatever area this thing goes. And that is very bad. But, if its going to happen anyway (as Wal-Mart has a history of doing whatever they want), the city might as well try to make the store part of an urban fabric with built-in potential for adaptive reuse. This would be a small victory in what would otherwise be an unmitigated disaster.
As I have stated in the past - the East Side of the City would greatly benefit from a Wal Mart. Love my statement or not, it's the truth. It is an affordable option for the residents who don't have many options for shopping.
Damn ... BR keeps eating my posts!
I keep on saying this to other Buffalo urbanophiles: expect the kind of retail uses that are seen in Legends at Village West (Google it; BR apparently eats anything with a link), a new lifestyle center in working-class Kansas City, Kansas. Legends at Village West is a spinoff development that is largely credited to a new Cabela's and Nebraska Furniture Mart (600,000 square feet - twice the size of a typical Ikea!) that was built nearby.
Wal-Mart won't be coming downtown. They might locate to a Steelyard Commons-type (Google it) development on some remediated brownfields nearby, but it's not the type of development that respects Buffalo's urban form.
1. There is no reason to think that Wal-Mart would come to the east side. They're already just over the city line in Cheetowaga accessible on a bus line. They already get east side business. If they did come into the city, they'd locate within spitting distance of Wegman's or Tops, with the intention of putting them out of business asap.
2. Wal-Mart coming to the city isn't a foregone conclusion. People have fought them and won all over the country. There's no reason why we'd have to roll over and accept it.
chris69 - one of the best posts on bro in a long time. and tons of people will get mad and try to combat it but its not true. Ask 1000 people in WNY what kind of business they would like to open, probably 85-90% will say a pizzeria. Pizza's great but you cannot grow a city on pizzerias. People do not say "I'd like to open a business making energy from leaves" or "an online social networking company" because most people do not have the knowhow to take on such an endeavor. It probably seems like too much work anyway. The business of America is business, and small business is the best business. WalMart kills small business (unless you are in a service industry, where it hasnt found a way to compete yet)
long and short of it - stop buying from wal-mart and learn to take care of your clothes and toys
Wall Mart and Bass Pro are invasive business species that destroy small business in America and Buffalo. The sucking sound you will next hear will be those many small business stores and and higher paying U.S. jobs being tranfered out to help provide non union workers in China with U.S. jobs.
The most favored trade status with China that provides Bass Pro and Wall Mart goods is all about corporate favortism that protects the most rich and powerful. This is the beginning of centralized commerce, OPEC commerce and government subsidies i.e. corporate welfare for a few.
This centralized progression of commerce for the control by the few is a shift away from the beliefs of the founding Fathers. The shift towards central control of all commerce has been matched by centralized control of the media, farming, ect. Enron was an effort to centralize energy production. Even the two party political system in America is basically putting the political power in the hands of a few corporations. Corporate lobbists have more influence of government policy in city, state, and federal government than John Q. Public.
The 45 million tax subsidy to Bass Pro is anti free market as is Chinese workers not being allowed to form unions. There are no unions or workers protection laws in China. China has trade advantages which the U.S. cannot match. The environmental laws in China are virtually non existent. The demand for gasoline in China is responsible for higher consumer prices in our country.
Why are we allowing our government to destroy the American Middle Class? If you are MIddle Class or Poor shop in Bass Pro and Wall Mart they are basically cutting their own throat? The small businessman in Buffalo cannot compete with a business model that is like a giant 500 mile fishing net that grabs up all the fish in the Great Lakes and America.
Minimum pay jobs are not helping to grow the Middle Class and elevate people out of pcverty. The plantation system is being expanded in Buffalo. Self determination and economic opportunity for the many is being stiffled. Casino gambling linked to the Bass Pro centralized busines is a way to recreate a serf economy.
A status quo for a few is what Bass Pro and Wall Mart represent. Not one penny of mine will ever be spent in these stores. I will shop at the Co-Operative or Tops on Elmwood before I spend one dime at Wall Mart. I will buy fishing tackle from small local shops.
What retail is Wal-Mart going to detract from in the city? We already have aTarget and KMart, the rest are dollar stores, payless, rainbow shops, marshalls and walgreens. The type of retail we hope the city will eventually draw will not give a damn that there is a wal-mart within the city limits.
WNY is over retailed to the hilt? Really, have you been out shopping lately, Buffalo seems to be bucking evrey trend that the national news is reporting. Retail is booming because of our proximity to the border its just too bad southern ontario can never be calculated in any statistics towards Buffalo's metro area. The Ontario marketing push has sucked WNY dollars out of our econmy for years (golf, theater, shopping, dining, casino's, strip clubs, airport) now it should be out turn.
Rez-Great...Great post.
vgs-I think it's more about the business practices of a place like Wal-Mart that makes them so insidious, they perpetuate the trade imbalance with China on such a grand scale, plus there may not be a lot here already in terms of small retail but Wal-Mart will ensure that they never start.
Chris69 - you are right about Candadians driving up airport and retail statistics, but who cares where the numbers come from. Southern Ontario is essentially part of the Buffalo Metro. And the fares were cheaper than Rochester and crowds were gaining way before the Canadian dollar gained ground. The new Canadian influence is just a bonus that followed a great airport improvement and then a significant Walden Galleria investment. WNY needs to contine to attract Ontario dollars over to our side, and that means more retail and hotels, especially downtown, more flights and more entertainment options, then we can pull from Rochester, Erie and the Southrn Tier.
I think this article was just a ploy to get people arguing and debating. Well here you go: Wal Mart was begun just the same as any local business could be. It's current policies of low paying jobs and ultra competitive low quality goods from China (et all) will eventually cause it to fail. KMart tried this already and WalMart will eventually become the empty lots that Kmart is now. You can't suck the resources out from an area and expect it to support your future. It's near-sited corporate greed and hopefully people will wake up to the practical nature of viable economics and persue policies that are more locally friendly. America has become a land of bubble economics and without a constant stream of new and growing revenue we think that a particular business is dead. Perhaps businesses should look at the long term advantages of social re-invesment and create a micro-economy more directed towards communistic ideals. It will not be too long before service workers attempt to force the issue by unionizing. Do you hear that Target, Costco and Walmart? The current economic models of such businesses are subject to collapse. It's more a matter of proximity and longevity. (This article is a stub...)
".... The Aud asbestos remediation is two months ahead of schedule and should be complete by September 31st. "
And what date could possibly be more appropriate for a waterfront-related project to be completed than September 31st?
phenimore...I am sure the Walton's are dying to implement any business ideas that you are willing to provide to them...i mean the insight in your post is worthy of the front page of the wall street journall...
unless of course a "stub" has something to do with sarcasim and if that's the case, it obviously went wayyyyy over my head!
Why would WalMart want to be in the city? Is it not obvious? Socio-economically it's perfect fit, whether you want to believe it or not. Secondly, population density wise, it makes sense geographically.
But let us not stop at WalMart. What about Benderson? Here is a company that basically lures anyone and everyone here and plays certain chains off each other, all for the sake of their own bottomline. They open retail space and have higher and higher vacany rates because they'll put a store anywhere to bring in cash flow, even it if causes them to have to vacant a store in your neighborhood.
Case in point about their greed and duplicity: they are supposedly the developer for Bass Pro, supposedly this is a destination retail location. OK, great. But in the same breath, Benderson is luring Cabela's to it's proposed retail strip plaza location at the Camp Road exit of the I-90.
Yes, that's right. At the same time everyone is saying that Bass Pro is a bad idea and there isn''t enough of a market, Benderson is luring Cabela's just to they can get a rent sold. Oh, and they'll also help Cabela's anyway they can to get some tax incentives.
If you want to make a list of the people or company's that screw this city and region over every chance they get, Benderson can be put in the top 3 without a doubt.
And as for the comment that Buffalo is illiterate, undereducated and apathetic (or whatever the terms were), right on. This is one of the few areas in the country where more money is spent on police and fire service than on education (I mean salaries), where it's more of a goal to land a cushy, dead-end, set for life public sector job than a job in education. And that makes the people who value education find it somewhere else and leave for somewhere else.
Quick stat: In Atlanta, where growth (good bad or otherwise) and opportunity abound, a cop makes $32,000+ starting salary with a bacehlor's degree. In NYS, a trooper, with only 60 college credits and no degree requirement makes $50,000 to start and $75,000 after 5 years. Meanwhile, your public schools can't attract high quality teachers who are forced to get a masters degree because the starting salary is in the low 30s and it takes 10+ years to break $50,000.
It's priorities, Buffalo glorifies and prioritizes police and fire and the ignorant GM workers who walked off the stage at graduation right onto the assembly line does not value education. It's an entitlement region we live where people talk about landing a dream job with the govt. That motivationless pathetic mentality is why the motivated and driven leave.
Walmart succeeds where the government fails. We are in a recessionary economy combined with inflation and a dollar diminishing in value. The government takes steps, including the printing of more worthless money, to protect the financial position of the rich while squeezing the budgets of everyone else. Walmart simply provides people with more purchasing power for their buck, improving their lives in the lprocess.
Simply put, shopping at locally owned stores/businesses is better for the Buffalo economy. More of the money stays in the community and is circulated locally, thus creating more local jobs.
I wonder how many people who hate Wal-Mart secretly shop there. Whenever anyone brings up Wal-Mart, I'm the first person to jump in and talk about how evil they are. When I hear the people at work talking about what they bought from Wal-Mart, I look down on them like they're the scum of the Earth. But once a month or so, I'll make the trek out to the Walmart Supercenter, where I secretly enjoy buying cheap Chinese junk and ultra-low-priced food. I try to quickly run inside the house so that none of my Elmwood Village neighbors will see my Wal-Mart bags. And I have to throw the plastic bags in the garbage instead of reusing them, because I wouldn't be caught dead with a Wal-Mart bag. I can't help it, and besides, there's some things I can only find at Wal-Mart, like Jell-O Sugar Free Banana Fudge pudding cups. In reality, my secret Wal-Mart trips are no worse than going to the Target on Delaware, but for some reason I'm comfortable doing that freely out in the open. I think it's because of class and perception.
I realize this is a 'Buffalo' site, but it's striking how Walmart, and the larger economic forces at work in the country, or the world, are discussed as if Buffalo and it's economy exist in a vacuum. As a region, we need to better grasp the changes taking place in the global economy, and what progressive role Buffalo can have in the new economy. China is made out to be a villain, but in some parts of our economy (heavy industry and steel) our exports to them (to build roads, etc. in a growing economy) are actually helping prop up our economy.
The jobs of today, and tomorrow, involve far more sophisticated things than retailing. The focus of our educational institutions needs to be on creating an intelligent work force that can participate in real value added industries, from software to biotech, and all the other 'bit' based businesses of tomorrow.
When you buy from Walmart you support the Waltons , their reighning staff and the oversea's companies in which they do buiness with ,you support their tactics they use on the few U.S companies to pressure them into bleeding dry buiness contracts ,you support their pay scale for the workers and no healthcare [even though they don't know any better] Walmart is pushing out the small buisness while telling the lie they care about the enviroment /some time they use a third party to purchase the land .and those advocates that lead the rallies for the new Wallmart's [paid walmart stooges] -who pays for the rental of the meeting halls , the signs or the time invested............it's not for free they do have their clan of supporters with benifits, but a time ago some greedy men with a few [educated NUMBNUTS?}came up with free trade=WALMART SUPERCENTER.the after birth of this MORE NUMBNUTS out there thinking because they have 4 yrs at yo yo sig ma phi and a 1/2 credit in economic theory all wages if on a common base that the cost to the costomer will eventually decrease -won't happen HORNRIMS <8-( I was just in a conversation a few ago with a yo yo drives a toyota but tried to justify it with evertthing in the stores is overseas -I REPLIED you payed just as much for that car as a ford or ....they don't pay what the big three pays /helthcare to,where does the rest of that money go? over seas.
Oi vey Ben Franklin, It's a relatively simplistic notion to suspect that China is not a villain! Their economy really is driven by a great deal of forced labor, it is an incredibly repressive society-look at the recent events in Tibet-, and eventually they will pose serious competition to us as a military, economic, & political power and in many ways they already are. So does it prop up our economy? In a twisted way it does, we buy/consume all of that useless disposable plastic. Yet in the longterm it will lead to our undoing.
Secret Wal Mart shoppers.... I normally get certain things like toiletrees and possibly paper products, and prescriptions there, becuase you can get more cheaper. I do have a decent job, but I don't have a bottomless pit of money. I guess I could go to Walgreen instead, huh? Why is it so bad to get somethings there. Ok, shop for clothes at your local Krudmart or City Love, get your chocolate at Sweet Tooth, Condrells, or Watson's and where to get electronics and computer supplies??? Wait, they're mostly all chains or you get your computer stuff online. I guess you just can't get away from avoiding some sort of chain. I guess this also applies to food...I hate chain food of any sort, Italian, Mexican, Pizza, Sandwich Lunch shops etc... etc.... I do support locally owned and operated restaurants, that's very important to me. Also I can't stand getting the same molded piece of food each time, I like to know it was made from scratch.
So, I guess you or I can avoid chains as much as possible, but certain things, you really can't. Even those local business chains (or at least those that started in Bflo), Just Pizza, Wilson Farms, Spot, that all of us inevitably patronize because of convenience.
I guess this is just obvious to me - common sense - possibly not - just my opinion.
A): For evidence of Bass Pro's drawing power you don't have to look across the U.S. to Broken Arrow....100 miles down the Thruway sits Auburn, N.Y.....and the hotels, restaurants and scads of retail (including jewelry stores) that built and opened on the heels of Bass Pro.
B): Wal-Mart is a when, not an if. Benderson plans Wall-Mart for Phase 3 of Delaware Commons. Right after Kohls is built. Kmart store will be leveled and Wal-Mart will arrive....just wait and see. I'll put my money on a Nov. '10 opening. (I can't wait to hear the NIMBYers argue ithe cultural/societal benefits of Kmart over Wal-mart)
SurfKing must be one of those poorly educated unionized assembly line workers - nice rant!
Could Buffalo use more entrepreneurs and small businesses? Of course!!!!! Will Buffalo be hurt by the big retail giants? Well yes and no so let me explain. Buffalo is an incredibly poor, shrinking and relatively stupid/uneducated/illiterate/non-techology focused city even compared to Rochester one hour east. Now just hold on remember I am a Buffalonian so let me say my piece. The only reason Buffalo has the Airport handling 6 million visitors, and the retail and many other businesses is due to the patronage of the canadians who find it cheaper and believe it or not more convenient. Without the canadians Buffalo wouldnt even have the population or the wealth to attract the walmarts and k-marts that it has now much less higher end retail....and without the canadians Buffalo would have higher fairs than Rochester no doubt. So Buffalo really has to be cost competitive not just locally but with canada also....and that means that we need a two prongued approach of supporting our small business to viable at the neighborhood and community level like say Geurcios and carve their niche out so they dont compete with the big box stores. Now after saying this why did I have to put Buffalo down by saying its "relatively stupid/uneducated/illiterate/non-techology focused" because when people think of small business in Buffalo they think restaurants, retail and hair dressers. In other words low capital and low education. Buffalonians need to think of small business in terms of high technology, high education, high value services across wide swaths of industry and business. The fact that we Buffalonians think in terms of the lowest intelligence/lowest skill/lowest education/lowest value/lowest technology possible says why we are continuing to fail as a 21st century city. By the way...maybe Buffalos economy will improve, I hear the big texas hair of the 70s and 80s is coming back which ought to put thousands of high school dropout hair dressers to work.
I reccommend 'Wal-Mart Effect' if you havent already read it.
Chris69, did you seriously just call a return of big hair! ahhahahah! never (err, i hope atleast)
Build a Wal-Mart the size of the Edmonton West Mall ( approx. 6 million sq. ft ) to lure and entrap Canadians. Properly drained of their hardly-earned Loonies, they settle down and become more tolerable to our aging, shut-in population. Win-win.
1. Wal-Mart does offer low prices, but at the cost. That cost includes loss of local businesses and US industry, human rights violations in China, and low pay and benefits for Wal-Mart workers (so low that the state -- ie, us -- ends up paying for thier healthcare). To say that htis is all worth it because people can save a few bucks right now seems shortsighted.
2. Again, Wal-Mart isn't a "when." Benderson may have plans to bring them in, but any atempt to do it would provoke a massive response.
Wal-Mart is a when, not an if. Benderson plans Wall-Mart for Phase 3 of Delaware Commons. Right after Kohls is built. Kmart store will be leveled and Wal-Mart will arrive....just wait and see. I'll put my money on a Nov. '10 opening.
By 2010 fossil fuels will be too expensive for the US to indiscriminately still import massive loads of plastic pumpkins from China. Good lucking keeping the "warehouse on wheels" economy still going...
Whats wrong with sweatshops? It provides a living wage to millions of people around the world. Just because they arent fat union laborers who feel entitled to $30 and hour for collecting a ticket at a toll booth or typing on a computer in City Hall...they still get to live and strive for more. We have just gotten too fat and happy here, noone wants to work anymore
I would love to see a few national retail stores and restaurants take over some of the empty space inside the Main Place Mall, along Main Street, and many of the side streets. Mixed in with the local boutiques that are currently opening up. It would make for a great mix with many options to choose from. Downtown could then become a "Shopping Destination" once again if this happens.
As the economy goes, so does independent businesses, look for more Wal-Mart type stores. Wal- Mart is not the cause but the effect.
Where do most people shop for food, where do most people buy their cloths, where do most buy major appliances.
Check out the corner gas station, who runs these places, who runs the inter-city stores, call a customer service center and get connected to the far east somewhere.
Our greed is the reason for the pissing and moaning about Wal-Mart, we want more for less and thats what we got.
I buy some bigger ticket items on the internet for price and the prospect of skipping the sales tax (not to mention my purchases come right to my house and I don't have to go to the store). How different will retail be in 20 years?
Here's one way to rectify the economic US imbalance of trade with the world, strengthen the US economy and insure that American jobs will be competitive. It's a scheme for mechanically insuring a balance of trade (a great concern with regard to China, the mid east and other developing nations). Create a marketplace which guarantees a balance of trade. Here's how::
1. The federal government would issue trade credits for all exports. These trade credits (similar to, say, carbon emission credits) would be financial instruments which would allow a like value import. If GM sells $1Billion of Chevys overseas, then GM gets $1B worth of trade credits from the US government. GM then sells these credits on the open market to any importer, all of whom would be required to purchase them in order to bring goods and services into the country.
2. Anyone who wants to import anything to the US would first be required to purchase trade credits issued to exporters (these transactions would take place in securities marketplace just like bonds and stocks and futures). Exxon wants to bring in $1B of oil? Bid for the export credits allowing it. Tack on the cost of the purchase of the trade credits to the cost of the product.
The value of the credits would be negligible if demand for exports exceeds demand for imports. If demand for imports far exceeds demand for exports, the value of the credits could be substantial. Let's say you sell potatoes to Russia. You get not only the price of the potatoes, but also the value of the trade credits you sell in the marketplace. Maybe all your profit is in the trade credits.
Unlike tariffs, which target particular products from particular sources, the trade credit marketplace would apply the increased costs of importation equitably across the board regardless of source or product. The financial benefit of exportation would accrue not to the federal government, but to the entrepreneurs who sell American product outside our borders. By adding incremental cost to importation and by offering incremental profit to American exporters, we would be ensured of retention of American jobs and wealth.
funny that this is front page news today, walmart suing a disabled woman:
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=7106460&ch=4226713&src=news
I avoided this post, now I feel I must chime in...
You can't EVER complain about the local economy & health care & inflation & eco-concerns if you shop at WalMart...
First of all, everyone who reads & posts to BRO - do you all work somewhere? I'm guessing a bunch of you are unemployed, and as for the rest, I'm assuming you all don't work retail or for pizza places...
That leaves small businesses and other national corps of varying size. Buffalo has a (growing) number of small businesses (many greater than 100 employees...) Just 'cuz you haven't heard of them, doesn't mean they're non-existant. For example - ATTO Technology in Amherst, high-tech, been around 20 years. Buffalo Games, entertainment, been around 20 years. Nano Technology, high-tech, doing business globally...
As for the WalMartians who would rather save 7cents on SugarFree Jello Pudding Pops, than think a rational thought about how and what they're doing actually does affect the (health care, local economy, political quagmire - add one/pick one...) that they're always bit@#ing about - it's truly astonishing.
ECON 101 - Cause & Effect: Why can WalMart sell lead-enriched crap cheaper than anyone? It comes from terribly exploited people from ridiculously corrupt and polluted countries - China, India, etc.
In a nutshell - W*M demands cheap products from companies. So cheap that they're forced to cut costs. Cutting costs usually closes factories and requires sourcing from cheaper places. Get it?
Oh, put down your Sunday Circulars - W*M can't be ever considered "green" - don't let the hype & marketing machine fool you. China is THE most bass-pro-ackwards country on the planet when it comes to oil consumption & pollution. If 90% of your crap comes from there, guess what - picking up your 400 thread count sheets for $19.99 at W*M in your Prius is not something to feel good about. You're a contributor. Realize it, deal with it. Hell, get a cheeze-food-burger and celebrate your delusional self-righteousness.
Don't get me started on W*M's raping of the "organic" market...
Bini's first paragraph made me think....
What's worse (for the local economy), buying a big ticket item online (Amazon.com) and foregoing local tax revenue, or buying it at WalMart, thereby contributing to local tax dollars while also supporting jobs for local residents? Just compare those two choices...
I know that buying at Stereo Advantage or Speaker Shop locally is better than buying at WalMart or Best Buy for the economy, but is it better for you as a consumer - if you are paying way more and getting the same thing?
When it makes "cents" to buy local, do it.
mbhxam - It was just a few ideas that were swimming around in my head, and as blogs allow I just ranted. I do actually have more constructive suggestions for marco-retailers. In fact, I'm currently mulling over a business model that uses my better ideas for sustainable merchandising, but I prefer to voice more radical espousements! I figured everything I had to say has been said before. Thus the "stub" line. It's a reference to WIkipedia... for articles that are incomplete and lacking information, and an invitation for someone to say it far better than I can.
The one thing I did ineptly that I wanted to point out to people was that the "evil" WM began as a small mom and pop five and dime that could have just as easily begun in Buffalo as in Bentonville and produced the most successful chain of stores in history. Did it become "evil" when it became popular, much like that local "Indie" band that gets a single hit and suddenly is a sell-out? Would we love it if it had begun here? What obligation does a corporation have to its markets? It's a compelling study in socio-economics if you dig that sort of thing.
Whatever money I save by shopping at Wal-Mart is either going to local businesses that I enjoy, or into my savings account for the downpayment on a home (in the city, of course). If I save $2 on a multi-pack of toilet paper at Wal-Mart, it makes it easier for me to buy a growler from the Village Beer Merchant instead of a six-pack of Red Dog tallboys from the gas station.
why do these always just focus on walmart? buying at Tagret, Kmart, Kohls, etc are not all that different. They are also stocked with a vast majority of imported goods. Shop any big department store and you are accomplishing the same.
So why should I pay more for the same exact roll of paper towels at Tops then I do at Walmart? Why chould I pay more for the same made in China can opemer at Tops than I do at Walmart?
I say turn the lower floor of Main Place mall into a superwalmart with the smaller stores on Main st with entrences on the street.
r129 that is great for you but what about the majority of people who shop at walmart and no other local stores. That is the real problem when I would bet the majority of consumers don't spend more than a couple percent of their disposable income in local shops.
MJ, that's not a bad idea. That's actually a really good idea. Buffalo Bumpkins are often relunctant to move downtown because of itss lack of convinience, this is a solution. Most of the storefronts near (and in Mainplace) are vacant or going out of business.
The benefit of adding the Walmart (which is not the case in most scenarios) is greater to the micro-economy than the harm. It also entices the Canadian shopper (who will spend their money in Cheektowaga anyway, guys) downtown. All in favor? All opposed?
and I agree with MJW.. Target, Kmart are not much better but the difference comes in wages, benefits corporate attitude. I don't know the stats but I assume Wegmans is more expensive because of the benefits the employees get. Which is why it is one of the best companies to work for in America. So you can buy the same important cheaply produced goods or food at both of them but just because you pay more doesn't mean you are somehow getting screwed.
sbrof, the people you speak of who shop at Wal-Mart and no local stores wouldn't start shopping at small businesses if Wal-Mart were to suddenly disappear. They would just go to KMart or Target or whatever other big discount stores were available. I suppose the money they spend on groceries at Wal-Mart would likely end up going to Tops or Wegmans, which are local or somewhat local, but still big business. These are the kind of people who eat at Applebees and the Olive Garden, they don't know any better. The absence of Wal-Mart wouldn't change their spending habits.
Oh please people! How in the world is a Walmart going to hurt Buffalo? Close small businesses on Elmwood? Absolutly not! Show me one person on this site that does all their shopping on Elmwood Ave. You need electronics-big box store or the net, groceries-Wegmans, cloths-the mall, marshells or net, furniture- Ashleys or whatever. Kitchen stuff- Target. This is not the turn of the century when there was a butcher/greengrocer/bakery on evey corner. You need a nifty gift-everything Elmwood or Main Street, A Late'-coffee shop on Elmwood, nice candy-Elmwood. Elmwood is a strolling boutique street, not a major shop destination. The only store's it will probably hurt is that crappy K-Mart, Give Target a run for their money and make Danny Wegman offer more specials. Other than that a few hundred low income or unemployed will get a job and feel good about themselves earning a paycheck and allow our city officials the security of knowing that when they have finished their term in office WalMart will always need a greeter, thus employing them also.
r129 and Martin make great points. Many people and families save a lot of money buying a wide range of basic items at {Wal-Mart, Target, Home Depot, K-Mart, etc., etc.}, and in many cases this can add up to thousands per year.
In addition to creating local jobs at those businesses (and creating some dividends and growth for WNYers who own shares of those in stocks, mutual funds, or pensions) - shopping there also frees up money for spending elsewhere on many less common, less basic products and services.
Where do we think money comes from to buy nice Italian dinners on Hertel, unique dresses at Jenny Shop downtown, exotic beers at Elmwood's Village Beer Merchant, tickets to Kavinoky Theatre, martinis at Nektar, fancy cheeses and wines at Premier (opps sorry, I mean somewhere inside city limits!), Client Nine t-shirts as advertised on BRO, a cool chair at Room, a suit from Lu Modern, etc., etc. ? Not to mention money for $3 lattes at SPoT (opps that's not local or North American - let's say Cafe Aroma or Comfort Cafe).
sbrof's bold bet without citing any proof or reference that 'the majority of consumers don't spend more than a couple percent of their disposable income in local shops' doesn't sound the slightest bit believable to me. I suppose it could depend on what 'shops' means, but if that includes all local businesses a couple percent sounds way too low.
The point is if they spent extra on basic items by boycotting {Wal-Mart, Target, Home Depot, K-Mart, etc.}, there'd have to be significantly less money left over for various non-essential products and services sold by most of the Elmwood and Hertel business community so celebrated on this blog. So beyond allowing lower income people have things they might not otherwise, the Wal-Marts, Targets, etc. are helping many of the Elmwood and Hertel upper-scale businesses create their own profits and jobs. And as r129 added, for those people who put most or all of their money saved at big box stores into buying or improving a house here, that helps the local economy too.
Just to reiterate why WalMart is bad for Buffalo:
http://www.jibjab.com/originals/big_box_mart
Might be funny now, but its very true.
Martin, et al. WalMart has already hurt businesses in Buffalo...
NEWSFLASH! W*M is bad for companies that PRODUCE goods too, not just sell them...
There is (was) a company in Tonawanda that as of 2005 made lip balm locally and employed (at full speed & 3 shifts, over 100 people - also PhDs to factory workers), not it's... drum-roll please... dried up and moved HQ to NYC and currently employees Chinese factories to make the $0.87 product that WalMart demands. So, there - let's all save a mere percentage of our vastly-wasted discretionary income to shop there. The 2nd and 3rd shift factory folks in Tonawanda thank you...
The fact is that Walmart works, they have an outstanding business model that is more successful than just about any other company in history. They have changed the world with the way that they do business. You can criticize them for their actions or policies, but the end result is that they are the leading retailer because they have been able to utilize customer data, control their supply chain, and offer services at a price that is agreeable to most consumers. Political or social platforms aside, they have succeeded to the point that they truly dominate the market. They did this by managing information better than any of their competitors. They did this by leveraging a very efficient supply chain and using their scale to demand better pricing for their customers. Ultimately, they captured the largest market share of any modern retailer by providing customers with what they need at a price that is consistently lower than any competitor. They provide a much greater benefit to the community than they cost to local retailers that were gouging their customers on price and service. Buffalo is the second poorest city in the nation, our residents need a walmart instead of a price gouging Wilson Farms that charges a premium price milk, bread, cereal and other essentials.
...so, your telling me a company left the area becouse of a WalMart? Palease! Like many American companies, they more than likely chose to move operations for a cheaper labour force of there own free will to give the owners and shareholders bigger dividends. I am also pretty sure the lip balm company did not rely soly on WalMart as a customer. Truthfully it is our lopsided "Free Trade" act that is closing many companies.
...and why would they want cheaper labor - to be able to sell things cheaper to the big-box-bully that DEMANDS the lowest conceivable price!
Any time W*M comes on as a distributor of manufactured goods, it is a near certainty that W*M will account for 50-90% of sales volume for any product line carried. It's a double-edged sword, companies want/need to sell more, so you fight like hell to get into W*M - it's become the holy-grail account for manufacturers. Once there, the bully beats up the vendor and effectively milks out any of the manufacturing company's profit from the price that W*M is wiling to pay. The argument is, "you're lucky to be here at W*M, play by our rules, 'cuz if you don't, there are 100 more like you......"
In order to keep people employed and keep selling crap to W*M, manufacturers have to source cheaper components (see China), cheaper packaging (see China) and cheaper labor (duh, China maybe?)
As for bigger dividends, there has to be profit for dividends to be paid...
Live it, then comment. This free-market / capitalism / free-trade theorheitical shite argument is just a college ECON 101 class. (As for bigger dividends, there has to be a profit for dividends to be paid - that's FIN 101)
BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART!
BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART!
BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART! BUILD WALMART!
Martin - yup like I said, you can't get away from using some chains for certain things. It's good to know that some people understand this concept.
BACKINBUFFALO - It sounds like you may need to turn off NPR for a little while.
When you shop at Wal-Mart, you are:
-- buying products made by sweatshop or even slave labor -- giving your money to a company with a track recod of abusing its employees -- giving money to a company that encourages its employees to sign up for government aid to supplement their low wages -- encouraging the loss of US industry -- helpig to drive out local business -- encuraging the use of fossil fuels to ship your junk across the ocean from China -- saving a few bucks
The moral calculus is clear.
Sweatshops = poverty wages. 12-16 hour days. child labor. unsafe conditions. intimidation from armed guards. factory doors that lock from the outside. no right to freedom of speech or association. death on the job.
Which of these blessings of a sweatshop has gotten a bad rap?
So Colin, are you saying that everything that Walmart sells is produced under sweatshop conditions in the Evil Republic of China? I think that you are letting your contempt for Walmart overshadow reality of the situation. For example, Walmart goes to lengths that far surpass any other retailer to ensure that goods are produced in environmentally and socially acceptable way. This is one of the reasons that Walmart hired the former head of the Sierra Club to oversee their environmental concerns. Walmart is leading the rest of the retail world in environmental practices and have shifted away from suppliers that are not in agreement with their aggressive environmental initiatives. The same is true for human rights or working condition concerns, in fact Walmart has dropped suppliers who are not in compliance with their agreements.
If you want to understand Walmart, then work for a company that does business with Walmart. It is really a very impressive organization, despite what you might hear on NPR or see on MSNBC. Keep in mind that you are assessing poverty wages and working hours based on your perspective as an American, and like a typical American you believe that everyone else in the world should agree with your perspective. It sounds like you are fear mongering to support your bias against Walmart. You take a few isolated cases or reports and try to paint those as the standard practice, without including the response and remediation from the company.
I have read your commentary over the past few months and know that you would prefer to rebuild American manufacturing via mostly union labor at whatever the cost to the consumer. Fortunately for us, Walmart (and other retailers) offers us a lower cost choice. I would prefer this choice instead of being forced to buy lower quality goods at a higher price point just because they are manufactured by union workers in America. It is a shame that America couldn't stay competitive due to inefficient, low quality, high cost manufacturing practices. They had the chance to automate and improve, but they were too busy fighting internally to respond to the external threats from the rest of the globe. It is probably too late to turn back and fix the mistakes of the past, especially when unions and government regulations prevent American companies from competing on a level playing field. Buffalo is a good case in point, we have a difficult time attracting businesses to the region due to our high taxes, artificicially high utility rates, and continual pressures to unionize employees in all sectors. You can blame Walmart if it makes you feel better, but I would encourage you to take a really critical look at America first, because without the likes of Walmart we would be much worse off as a nation.
It is not our responsibility to improve or condemn the working conditions in China or any other developing country. It is up to the people in those countries to take the necessary steps to improve their lot. That is why they are called developing countries. We were once a developing country. Do you think Europeans boycotted our goods because they didn't approve of the working conditions or pay scale? Boycotting goods from developing countries only worsens the living conditions for the people and prolongs the process for them to improve their labor conditions.
tinker drank the cool-aid.
(face the facts, W*M sells shite made in China - and a lot of it - it's the largest retailer on the planet. China is deplorable in every way - environmental, social - they executed the head of there corrupt "FDA" for the lead / pet food fiasco last year...)
Yes, W*M is a great "company" by the common, and dated, definition of being a successful company... But don't delude yourselves into thinking the company has our - the lowly consumer's - interests at heart!
And, I don't need biased reporting from NPR to make my conclusion, I worked for a company and played by W*M's sadistic rules AND watched shifts dissappear, profits decline, jobs go away and goods come from China...
I like Walmart. They say "Hello" to me evertime I come in just like they know me.
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