sbof - Those MANY people 'ran away' from living here in the Buffalo area only because they didn't like UB's North Campus?

You're saying in four or more years here, those MANY people never looked past their immediate campus surroundings to judge the city and region as a whole? If that's true, then please beg them to move back. People with that level of maturity and perspective are greatly needed here! (And by 'here', I mean on BR as article writers - they'd fit right in.)

South campus is a wonderful place to go for a walk, Harriman, by UB standards cafeteria and Greenerie are one of the best places that I have eaten at UB. The food is always very well done and the people who work there are all interesting and get to know you even through the hundreds of faces.

I wonder if Willie still works behind the grill :)

To bad it is only open for about 3 hours per day.

UB should have a law school presence and med school presence downtown asap.

Even without LivingForge's friends, UB seems to be doing some things well enough to be enrolling record numbers of full time students, with applicant SAT scores climbing, and more qualified grad school applications than they can accept. It's thriving in many ways, as davvid said. Sure, that campus has room for improvement and their upgrade plan will make efforts from what I read about it.

QE's insults are amusing when it's so clear it's all about the tired ole city vs. burbs thing to him. If the same campus was in the city, he'd never publicly attack it for ugliness as he did a few days ago and 'lacking any character'. Burbs bad. Simple as that. Same with Walden Galleria - if it was in the city BR would endlessly praise it, but since it's in a burb the only rare mentions are attacks.

Here's a short video from UB's admissions web site, which will probably enrage some who see it because it includes some claims that positive things happen on the evil bleak characterless North Campus. Also shows other campuses and some stuff about Buffalo: http://tinyurl.com/2dp9cu

Well stated Atwater... well stated!

In defense of the article, I agree that the pumpkin bread with cream cheese is worth the trip to the Greenery (or the Student Union).

"Harriman Hall made us feel like we had just walked into some exclusive club somewhere." BULLSHIT!

Its an ok building. I enjoyed the tater tots and the USA Todays scattered around. It does not remind me of some exclusive club somewhere. Who are we trying to fool when we exaggerate like this? Who are we trying to impress? Are we trying to convince the suburbanites? The expats? Ourselves?

Indeed there are amazing things (research, design, art) happening at UB everyday that would impress the folks that moved away. The most impressive aspects of UB happen in some of the least impressive buildings architecturally. This is where Buffalo is truly rising. There is no need to bullshit if you would just start writing about the real bright spots in our REGION.

The sad truth is while I don't know anyone who didn't cokme to buffalo because of UB North I know MANY people who ran away as soon as possible once they finish their degrees there. It is a boring, bland and uninspiring place to spend 4 years of your life. IT makes anyplace seem better than buffalo,

atwater - the design and disconnected nature of North campus means that many people who go to college in anything not architecture or medical related have no reason to go outside of north campus, and with the lack of a real public transit connection from it to the city 'Buffalo' to them is North campus and Niagara Falls Blvd,,, and nothing else. I knew at least a dozen people, probably more if I asked more people, that never once set foot inside the city limits during their four years at UB,

That is why non-local UB students call South Campus and the surrounding areas 'Downtown' It is why thousands of people leave every year because their perception of Buffalo is an uninspiring north campus, a crammed dorm room, and a giant strip plaza. Real things worth sticking around for.

Sure many students are going to go back to their hometowns, but the attitude towards buffalo from UB students is horrid. It isn't founded either. I would take people one one day tours of downtown, and parts of the city that they never saw before and their attitude would change in a matter of hours. The truth is that UB, its connection to the region, and its appearance do absolutely nothing to promote Buffalo as a good place to live and set up a new business or raise a family etc.. All those things that a Major university are supposed to do for the reason.. and why th most successful cities have them placed firmly in or near the downtown. If you don't build connection to a place you don't capitalize on real benefits of a university.

Also yes there are a lot of things going on to the bleak north campus... that is because it is firmly believed by most people doing the UB 2020 plan that without creating a beautiful campus, you are cannot compete for the highest and brightest students that other campuses are attracting.

That isn't some Urban Planning mumbo jumbo either, poles from incoming students have shown that the attractiveness of the campus is a major factor when it comes to making a decision between one university or another. If UB wasn't such a good cheap education, it would have been crushed by its own brutalist architecture years ago. But now that it is trying to grow and be a real national competitor for the best and brightest students. it needs to become more than an a place to do your time and get the hell away from.

I know several grad students who were accepted to programs at Buffalo and were excited about their offers - until visiting the (North) campus. They say it is the bleakest, most godawful hopeless campus they've ever seen and I've known all of them to accept offers elsewhere. Thank goodness UB is increasing its downtown presence, but it will never make up for it as long as the "life of the university" is housed in that mess of 70s bad ideas that is North Campus.

No my friends are not in architecture and planning - if they were then they'd be visiting South Campus. People look at campuses when deciding where to go to school (undergrad or grad). They want a place that looks and feels good. None of my friends who have turned down UB wanted to feel locked away in buildings resembling an office tower or a windowless shopping mall. Honestly some of those same buildings, had they been built around the existing South Campus, might not be so bad simply because there would be a human scaled, 19th century college anchoring the University. This is the way most Universities UB's size dealt with expansion. They integrated growth into their original campus, making their institutions a dynamic patchwork of past, present, and future. But we all know that Buffalo was never that great at integration.

North Campus is the ugliest college campus I've ever seen.

Thank you politicians for ruining and continue to ruin our city.

Hey... Let's through billions of our tax dollars at the issues and see if that will fix them.

Our fault - we elected these idiots in.

true- the employees are very nice people.

nnn - And by the way - this constant drum beat over and over about N Campus remoteness and isolation, and now you say 'sprawl' and a mind-numbed analogy to it being in Oneonta:

no-one 'hates' the suburbs, thoughtful, reasonable buffalonians resent the sprawl, and its associated drain and debilitating effects on our city. .... this campus might as well be in Oneonta for all the reciprical benefits shared by the city and the campus dwellers

Let's start with this - nobody ever complains about the UB South Campus location on Main St, right? Everybody's happy with that. Ok, great. The North Campus is only between 3 and 4 miles away from South Campus. Map: http://tinyurl.com/32og77

Just a 10 minute ride on free-to-anyone shuttle busses UB runs several times an hour. It's also on NFTA public metro bus routes. Anyone open minded enough to not be distracted by the Buffalo-Amherst political boundary can also notice that N Campus is about half the distance and travel time from S Campus than is the distance and travel time between South Campus and downtown (about 6 miles, 20-25 minutes).

Again, nobody ever complains about the S Campus location. But hey that extra 10 minutes is over and over again made to sound as though the campus is way out in Batavia, Arcade, Mars, or Jupiter. Or even Oneonta.

N Campus isn't in the middle of nowhere. It's in the middle of Amherst, a town of over 100,000 bordering the city. Yes, unfortunately it isn't easy to get to walking or biking. But they've made bus access very easy, and the distance simply is not far from the city S. Campus. People can keep whining forever that the location is a few miles from where they'd personally prefer, but the six million square feet (and still growing) of buildings aren't going anywhere. Nobody's going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars for a big 'do over'.

Should they 40 years ago have chosen a new urban site when they started out-growing S Campus? That's a useless complaint in 2008. They could've, but now so what? It's in Buffalo. No, not Buffalo the political entity, and not Buffalo as Buffalo Rising choses to define it - but very close to it and well within what almost all normal people in WNY, North America, and the world all mean when they say 'Buffalo'.

North Campus is bleak. Just ask a student -- like me. South Campus is a nicer and more traditionally "collegiate" environment. This is obvious to anyone with eyes, and has nothing to do with hating the suburbs. This is especially true since North Campus isn't really part of Amherst -- it's its own brown cinder block bubble.

McGowan - Sorry, I'll try to make this my last hijacking for a while.

sbof - Ok, I believe you about the (at least) 12 bright energetic young adults you knew who voluntarily chose to attend UB but hated its N Campus so much due to it's uninspiring bleakness - yet in 4 yrs never even once were willing to step foot in the city even though it was just 3 miles away by a 10 minute free ride on shuttle buses that run many times a day, 365 days/year. Yes, isolated, distant, remote, bleak, character-lacking N Campus is 3 miles from the city and politically-correct South Campus. That's the distance that so upsets some people. http://tinyurl.com/3x8pqt

I knew at least a dozen people, probably more if I asked more people, that never once set foot inside the city limits during their four years at UB, That is why non-local UB students call South Campus and the surrounding areas 'Downtown' It is why thousands of people leave every year because their perception of Buffalo is an uninspiring north campus, a crammed dorm room, and a giant strip plaza. Real things worth sticking around for.

At least they should've had lunch at the Greenery once. Harriman Hall's superior character might've cheered them. From there they could've walked a short way to Univ Heights Main St area, or taken bus or metro rail to Allentown or downtown. Or some Saturday could've seen Elmwood, or even Chippewa at least one Fri night.

All over both UB campuses there's info about stuff to do in the city - student newspapers, wall fliers, event listings in piles of Artvoice every week, student club events, etc. If all 4 yrs they chose to keep living on or near N Campus (even though hating it), and also chose to spend all their free time on N Campus (despite how uninspiring they found it), and never in 4 yrs wanted to find their way even once to any part of the city - Elmwood, downtown, Allentown, Hertel, or anywhere - then what does that say?

Whatever the reason, it was their choice. They weren't prisoners. Despite its need for improvements, to blame N Campus physical appearance for why those people ran from the Buffalo area after graduating is pretty weak.

Colin - To clarify, I'm not saying everyone's critiques of N Campus are due to suburb hating, but yes I'm saying that's the obvious reason for BR's criticisms of it. Almost anything and everything in the city is presented in a positive light by BR, sometimes requiring logic to be stood on its head. And yet even when it's not relevant to an article, such as this one about a S Campus eatery, a negative generalizing dig at the Amherst campus is tossed in. If they were more balanced in general, then maybe it wouldn't stand out so much. The chip on QE's shoulder is comical whenever he writes about UB.

About your point, yes S Campus is a very nice collegiate environment but what's often ignored is that the job N Campus does is very different and much bigger than what could've ever been accomplished on S Campus without changing what people like about it. N Campus provides a much larger amount of building space, with modern facilities for many needs, all buildings interconnected, etc. The quaint prettiness of century-old buildings on S Campus such as Harriman Hall are very nice, but a silly comparison to keep making with a newer campus meeting 21st century growth needs as the SUNY flagship.

If they had added 100 new buildings onto S Campus it would no longer be anywhere near as quaint, green, and pretty. It would be full of a lot more concrete, many dozens of new brown or gray big buildings, a lot less green space, a lot more parking lots - and maybe at this point it too would even be 'lacking any character', to borrow QE's description of North. Yes many criticisms of N Campus have merit. It has flaws, could be better layed out with better design and use of green space. But anyone who calls it 100% bad - every room, every building, every square foot of it - is showing extremism and closed mindedness. Some of its buildings aren't bad, and undeniably UB is having a lot of success on the campus so there's some positives at least functionally.

nonono - If you think my point had anything to do with swamp greed, no wonder you didn't understand.

i really dont understand your point. i have never met a single person who thinks that the decision to build the school so far from the city was based in anything but someones avarice to sell over to profit on swampland.

It shouldn't be confusing. I wrote it clearly. Anyone familiar with how QE goes to positive extremes about so many things inside city limits should grasp my point that if N Campus as-is was also in the city his articles would often cheer lead its successes instead of bashing it so much. It's a hypothetical, so there's no right or wrong - but it shouldn't confuse you.

Your most recent comment raises other issues not relevant to what I wrote. Doesn't matter to me what motivations affected site selection in the 1960s. That's 40 years ago, life goes on. Irrelevant in 2008. And I agree of course that BR should write about whatever topics or municipalities they want, cheering or bashing as they see fit. I just commented on what QE wrote compared to other things he's written, and also offered a differing view about sbof's comments as I do somtimes.

Comments above from davvid and becker, prior to any of mine, both make similar points as what I said - so if you're really are still confused by what I wrote, perhaps reading their different wording might help clarify. Good luck with your flu fighting.

nonono - Are you saying if locations of the two campuses were the opposite, then BR would consistently praise the Amherst campus even though it'd be in Amherst and BR would never miss a chance to harshly criticize the city campus even though it's in the city? Uhhh yeah right, suuuuure! Nope, no double standards here, no no no!