marketrate showed up. he is indeed a true gentleman. i have his back. maketrate - i understand it was uncomfortable, but you came, had dinner w/ your beautiful gal and represented amoungst other things...balls. please do send me a personal message. we need more peeps like you. and, most of all, i understand and thank you for being a real man, sir. be blessed. u r my boy.
oh yeah - i was the one you thought i was. u earned my respect for showing up...period.
Elena, im not meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelting . . . not meeeeeeeeeeeeeelting . . .
to backtrack, i feel sillly.
but i stand by by first comments. id even go along with deleting the naughties/threats and to eliminate repeat offenders, but other than that, i really think it does more harm than good.
Maybe if the SAME people didn't jump on to EVERY story and say something negative about it, others wouldn't be so fed up with it. I am not happy that this had to be done, but glad that the possibility of more discussion of the issue at hand can occur, rather than the same complaints being aired below every article.
Positive Comment #2 Wendy's has a new owner Jan 26th, 13:19
Carmina and Wood - did a bang up job on this building, it is really beautiful.
when I moved home 5 yrs ago ( seemed like it was yesterday) I looked at purchasing this building and the attached buidlings including Wendy's.
I belive the asking price at the time was 300k for the entire block. It is a very unique block.
The Carmina buidling has an excellent open lay out on all floors that I wanted to used for one huge loft or two loft apartemtns per floor. Elevator takes you right to your loft. Pretty neat. roof top is very cool with a nice view.
This buidling would also make an excellent call center or executive office space....which is needed downtown.......parking right next door too.
It is a surprise to hear that the bottom floors are not occupied. If somehhow they were able to fill them, a nice retail space or restaraunt downstairs would be easily supported.
I view this as a missed opportunity for myself. It is a great location and will someday be worth a lot of money. I remeber as s kid eating at Wendy's before the train. Main st was packed with people in suits, lot of action there. too bad.
Aside from the fact that the sub way destroyed business on main, I am however shocked that business has never returned. It is a very nice street with the trolly; plenty of room to walk with children, no cars speeding by - very quaint actually.
Main st could be so much more than it is in its current landscape. I sincerely believe if there was an "empire zone" within an "empire zone," sort of speak, Main st would fill up in no time.
Perhaps this is a more economical way to revitalize Main street other than spening another 45 mill to bring traffic back.
Razorpoint, touched a nerve with that little convention center provocation? Sorry, we all know how valuable folks such as yourself in the "event planning industry" are to the regional economy.( Oh, and we need those 300 dozen roses de-thorned by noon) Sadly you couldn't see through my satirical play on historical "persecution" figures. I make no great claims to metaphorical accuracy when I skewer the callow "ECB". As to your assertion that I'm negative, well I've made many positive comments here but I'm no Pollyanna ( are them roses done?). And as to your very amusing analogy of my screen persona to "mold and rot", well, mea culpa. It's not the same rap I got over at Gothamist where briefly I was said to have "infected the very fabric of Time and Space", but for our purposes here, it will most certainly do. ( move another barrel over if you can't fit more waste in this one. Yeesh, good help is just so hard to get over here at the Hyatt) Now go play with your complimentary gift tote, Razorboy.
I just couldn't sit here and read this... Some if thus tit for tat is ridiculous. Oposing views are what make discussions interesting... Some of you take this way too seriously
Moving forward, I will post under my new name "MorePositiveThanPundit" - does anyone remember what this thread is about?
Positive Comment #3
Columbus Park-Prospect Hill Lands On '7 To Save' List
Jan 24th, 01:16
Buffalo has some great projects in the works.
1.) Dulski - great project, good press
2.) Court House - great design
3.) New Condos on Water Front! Very cool
4.) Several new lofts built downtown - Webb is my fav!
5.) Club 31 almost finished - more 5 star dining downtown
6.) Peace Bridge looks like it will finally get done, somewhere
7.) Blue Cross building - done, even if ugly
8.) Aud coming down soon, finally
9.) Prop Values def gone up on west side - huge
10.) Statler will be stabilized for a flip, someone will take this project, it makes sense
Reality:
[expletive deleted] Bashar Issa - he is young and dumb. the sooner he leaves the better. The project has been started, it makes sense, and someone will finish it. We can force him into leaving with violations, law suits, etc.
Although people have said I am negative, this is the first time in my life I have seen cranes dowtown- it really looks like something is happening in Buffalo, especially as the rest of the world gets slammed on real estate.
We are moving in the right directions, finally, and that is important. momentum will pick up, it just takes a catalyst.
God Bless you all, we are in this together and Buffalo will prevail. If it is the last thing I do, I will make sure Buffalo rises again!
gaustad - You shouldn't need to even defend yourself against what Steel wrote.
It was a clear cut case of 'making unsubstantiated claims about an individual' which according to what ECB wrote in the article is now frowned on here - perhaps ironic because it's BR author Steel making an unsubstantiated claim about a BR commenter and refusing to just admit it, let alone simply apologize like a grown up.
Why disprove STEEL's assertion-I mean, accusation, G.? While I like some of the subject matter in his posts, STEEL's comments are simply leaden and sanctimonious. I picture him in robes just like Chief Justice Rehnquist's. Not a matter for engaged public consideration.
ECB - As per your question regarding my post for the Irish Community Center in South Buffalo... How welcome would they (especially the older people) be towards a dark skinned black (and openly gay) man? I think that is an honest question that could only candidly be discussed on a discussion board - people feel free to say what they really feel.
Don't knock me on assumptions about a part of the City, South Buffalo, that I once called home. I have an experience, perspective and view that is radically different than yours. There are many people in South Buffalo I love. Yet, there are very real reasons why a black family, with the means, would and should elect to live elswhere in Buffalo. Jimmy Griffin is hero for some and a monster to others...
As guided missiles go, YESYESYES, you really are a total Scud. The whole point of your existence here is your sad contempt for your betters, chief among them, the majestic nonono. It's a symbiotic relationship for you isn't it, you puny barnacle. the whale need merely sideswipe a pier and you're history. Enjoy your friends at EditCommand, they are all that sustains you.
Some on this site take these posts way too seriously! Instead of worrying about if someone made a racist comment or verbally attacked someone why don't the comments give concrete ways to do more business and help the economy? I would like to see some of the "concerned" parties invite some blacks from the east side to their place on elmwood for dinner or maybe some puerto ricans as well - i hope you get the picture. I don't see much diversity on elmwood avenue, but some on this site pretend to be so concerned with everyone's feelings and well being. I think chocolate sake makes some great points about this as well. I doubt the bro staff hosts many disadvantaged city children/adults up at their canadian summer houses or the canoe club?
Steel - No, saying 'could' would've made the assertion meaningless. It's demonstrably not true anyway, because gaustad has indeed written in BR comments that there are things of value in Buffalo.
Do you ever just admit you're wrong about anything?
It was not a fact, and it was not even a valid opinion because it's provably false.
gaustad - You're indeed one to rise above the fray, and that refuting was nicely done even though it shouldn't have been needed.
ChocolateShake - always impressive and you'd make a very good blogger here or elsewhere.
Many of your readers have no problem with occasional colorful language such as obscenities or "over-use of the verb in caps" (whatever that verb might've been) as a harmless trade-off for wider diversity of comments brought by BTD, etc.
BTD: You have two strikes today. Both of them were for obscenities. One was over-use of the verb in caps. The other describing a sex act.
MJ hit on the key point here:
some will see this as the "end of the world". I doubt it will be such. If it is, then BRO will die. Perhaps it will grow? The market will dictate.
The policy change you're planning is making a guess that the number of people who avoid the site due to it's current comments exceeds the number who are drawn to the site at least in part because of the more open dialogue and diversity. There's a chance that guess is wrong, in which case your ads will be seen by fewer people over time. What you should want to do from a business perspective of course is to attract both groups.
You might want to consider that a smarter business decision (maximizing clicks and eyeballs) could be to have two versions. Leave this one as-is, and it'd be very easily technically feasible to set up a buffalorising-filtered.com that would automatically output the same content minus any comments not meeting the additional restrictions you described above. Or the other way around - buffalorising.com could be the more restrictive editing policy and buffalorising-unplugged.com would be current way. Either way, I'd bet the non-filtered version would draw a LOT more clicks and eyeballs.
A note at top of each page would inform readers of the other option and provide the other URL with a convenient link to it. Once people know, then they'd just go to version they prefer. Avoid User feature would still be available in both versions, allowing even more customized control. Other than setting up the second URL, it wouldn't be any additional continuing effort beyond what you say you're planning anyway.
The idea of a troll-free comments section sounds good on paper (or should I say on-screen) but at the same time I don't have much sympathy for people who walk away from the conversation because of what's being said, no matter how hideous. I'm as appalled as anyone by some of the hateful comments that have become more common lately. My solution is to ignore them or click the "avoid user" button at the bottom of each comment.
It's up to all of us to create an environment where people from all over Buffalo (and beyond) share ideas, discuss, debate, think, learn and grow. Abandoning the conversation because of a bad apple or two (or four) only means they've spoiled it for everyone. Don't let them.
I agree with a policy of deleting, "in its entirety, any post that is off-topic, slanderous, has foul language, obscenity, violence or attacks anyone on the basis of gender or ethnicity."
It's a privlege, not a right to use this site.
For some time now I have observed that comments being left on this site were really tools being used by the individuals who write them to work out some inner "issues/feelings/problems" they may be having - and the emotions they are expressing are not really about the article they are leaving a comment on at all (sort of like road rage). Sometimes negative feedback (constructive criticism) can be helpful but when it gets really nasty instead of informative then I try to just ignore those comments. I do feel that too much severe negativity detracts from the enjoyment of learning what is happening in Buffalo.
BRO might consider enhancing their account validation process. Readers are currently allowed to post prior to validating their account, you can literally put in anything in the email address line. I know because I have done this. Why not require validation prior to posting? I know it is not perfect, but it takes a few more steps to create a fake yahoo account then to just create a new alias. My housemates and I have at least a dozen aliases on BRO, some to post legit comments and others to have fun with. We all know that this isn't uncommon on BRO.
"Those of us working in the community would be much more willing to suggest story ideas if we felt certain that we were not subjecting those individuals to the type of comments that have become far too common here."
Gretchen, life offers precious few guarantees. I don't think it's possible for any public forum to give a promise that there will be no negative repercussion to participation. For example, as a BRO author and commenter I've gotten positive and negative comments addressed to me. I've also gotten "hate mail" both here on BRO and in my private email box. That's the risk we all take when we join in the conversation. The internet isn't 100% anonymous.
I understand your desire to avoid making your students a target. We all have to weigh the pros of getting involved against the cons and decide for ourselves if the benefit outweighs the risk, and even then you're taking a chance.
@STEEL:
The only reason I am lumping you with the racist Neanderthals ( Your phrase) is that you have come to their defense. I am certain that if they treated WNYM to the same type barrage you would find need to do something about it.
Where did I defend what they wrote? I defended the idea that their writings - however mean or nasty - should be left up for the ostensible community to mock and pillory.
I'm not meaning to poke, Elena, I have the highest respect for you. But what I mean by a slippery slope is already being shown in this thread. Al Alo's comment about removing the anonymous element evolved into a BRO pizza party at the Caz. All things considered, couldn't that be looked at as off topic to our subject?
That's the problem you may run into later, and theres no going back.
thank you motor city, my compositions are intended as dulcet tones to the morally indignant, and noise only to the thoughtless and shallow hoi-poloi.
i am nonono, and i endorse this post.
If you ever put that troll image up again I'm never returning. It gives me the creeps.
Thou shalt not curse
" " speak of race no matter what!
" " be negative for any reason
I believe!!
On a lighter note, forgive me Elena, but I had to post this hyperlink to lighten up your mood: http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2295
ECB,
Nice deflection 'off topic', the question was what are your criteria for branding comments 'HATEFUL'?
your email to me stated...."I'm the editor of BRM. I appreciate that you have some insider knowledge...a lot of which we wouldn't be able to print due to substantiation and our basic credo of being a purveyor of good news and only going after the bad if we feel there's a solution."
why would anyone waste time entertaining an invitation such as this, when you state quite clearly that much of what you believe i have to say is not printable on BR? i have stated the solution, in my opinion the AA is skating on past performance, has ceased to be a truly representative organization for an ENTIRE community, and continues to misrepresent the colossal ineptitude and squandered public and private funds surrounding the Coit House. i am very open to discussing the matter with you, in exhaustive detail, when you extend an invitation that is not laden with restrictions as to the content you are open to hearing and printing. the AA and Coit are bad news, very bad and negative news. how sincere is your invitation?
you do realize dont you, that you just engaged in a bit of outing yourself ??? artistic license or editorial prerogative?
I don't know about "ECB" but since beginning to read this thread, I've started a pretty respectable "troll" beard. I mean we have to look the part in this shadowplay of shallow demonization and 'Us vs Them' pontification. My Ma Mere in Charlotte tells me she nearly blew out her Depends reading the hysterically funny overreactions to genuine criticism, from STEEL as well as the predictable control-freak defensiveness from "ECB". Such is the stuff of CounterReformations. Nonono, our very own Martin Luther getting chased by Cardinal Richelieu's posse with the "editrix" Elena warming the fires and gathering straw is beyond fiction. But, as BuffaloPundit knows, they count eyeballs, not scalps.
BTD, ECB and others posting links should keep in mind RisingDamp666 wrote that he might email a link of this thread to his grandmother in Charlotte. Careful you don't cause him any embarrassment on behalf of BR or Buffalo.
ECB... your tone seems more relaxed. Have you had a few glasses of fine wine while patroling these comments for improper posts?
Did BTD say he was "Done with this site"...let's see how long that lasts...
Buffalopundit: Do you think that BRO should be required to post about One Eyed Jacks and Kentucky Greg's? As much as I love Kentucky Greg's, I appreciate that BRO focuses on the city. That may seem exclusionary to some people, but if not for BRO, where would I go to hear about what's happening in Buffalo other than drive-by shootings, arsons, and the latest poverty ranking? Focusing on positive things is not the same as ignoring negative things, and I don't think there's any shortage of sources for negative news about Buffalo for those who are interested. Honestly, I don't think the suburbs need any additional promotion within WNY. Also, I don't agree that BRO focuses only on the Elmwood Village. There have been tons of posts about businesses and happenings in other areas, like my hometown of Black Rock.
Nearly all of the blogs and forums about other topics that I visit regularly have some form of moderation. It's not at all unusual. Some are better about it than others. I know of some blogs that have banned any sort of negative comments directed at the site or its writers. That's just ridiculous, and if things get to that point on BRO, then I'd really be concerned.
ECB - in your 17:51 comment (seemingly responding to mine at 15:52) I would like to know why you felt the need for the following statement? "Please refrain from wiping your mouth on the curtains, your feet on the couch." Is that how you treat your guests when acting as a host in real life? The arrogant tone of that comment is bothering me. Can you understand that?
To me, the aforementioned statement shows how much (or little) you value input from commenters. So perhaps your explanation will shed some new light, or maybe an apology is forthcoming?
Hi Granny Damp!! We love you, but go back to your site now: http://www.well.com/~vard/cookies.html
"Ms. Elena Cala Buscarino, tear down this Blog !" *
* nonono in a speech to a mob of BR riff raff, 1/30/2008
Yesteray - Positive Comment 1 City Gives AM&A's Developer deadline
"This is a beautiful building. We needs it urban fabric to mainitain the continuity on Main St. It would be a mistake if this were demolished. Some day a developer will turn it inot lofts. I guarantee it. "
@"bizcomplete":
so the artvoice and block club coverage of the city that isn't "reflexively negative" is the pieces focusing on bad actions by city politicos? oh, ok. now i'm clear.
Yes, the Artvoice and Block Club coverage of the city that isn't "reflexively negative" include pieces that _Artvoice_ did focusing on bad actions by city politicos.
Because that's not reflexively negative.
It is factually accurate reporting on a newsworthy event.
I'm sure you knew the difference. You're just trolling. And on your own site, at that. Tsk tsk.
WHAT A THREAD!
Now this is the Buffalo I know and love. There is a middle ground. The reality is that some posts are too negative and crude. On the flip side, some of the optimism is simply not warranted and ignorant.
FACT:
I shopped for commercial real estate downtown all afternoon to compare to Amherst. I am looking for a small to medium size space and I am willing to spend 2500-3000/month for my business. Not a storefront.
Looking around at all the vacant buildings and caliber of foot traffic, one would have to think twice before they risked their hard earned dollars in downtown Buffalo. No matter how much loyalty I have to this city, it is simply not a good place to conduct business, and that frustrates some of us to no end. You can refer to us as business people.
Once again, real life problems require real life solutions. At times, shock value is the only way to get through to people who do not understand that some of the issues discussed on this site are, in fact, the reason that Buffalo is falling further behind.
My name is Paul and I welcome your suggestions!
Am I the only one who is bothered by the following:
1 - this site is called BUFFALO Rising. 2 - its creators/contributors/curators like to fancy themselves as promoting the "rebirth," if you will, of all things Buffalo, NY. 3 - ECB has the nerve to say "We covered South Buffalo and the First Ward last month. I love the new people I met there. Salt of the earth... We're covering the East Side for March, and it's going to be great."
That's it? These important parts of our city warrant a "month" of coverage? Then what, the fourteenth post about the Village Beer Merchant? I won't even touch the "I love the new people I met there / salt of the earth" comment. As if these foundations-of-Buffalo neighborhoods and their residents are some new phenomeon.
I used to love BR. Still read it most days. But the attitude that's permeated its moderators is just as distateful to some of us as the "rude" comments are to others.
What would make me happiest would be if the community was large enough to be self-policing, for instance somewhere like slashdot or plastic.com. People vote for or against comments (like the stars we have in place) and then users can choose their browsing level. They could choose to only see 5-star comments, or any custom level, including seeing it all, including the nasty stuff down in one-star comments.
Unfortunately, I don't think enough people who want to see real discussion and debate are involved enough in this online community to make it feasible at this point in time.
In any case, I think this moderation is long overdue and will foster civil debate. It'd be nice to see someone complain and be able to pull it off without resorting to namecalling and vulgarity to illustrate a point.
sorry, i want to be King, and i wanna be invited to eat meatballs with the cool kids!
ECB - this is what is published under your terms and conditions (lower left corner at bottom of each page):
"Comments and Discussion Groups Terms of Use
In order to make our Comments interesting and informative for our users, the following guidelines must be adhered to by all users posting and/or viewing comments:
If a comment is made using your identity it will be deemed to have been posted by you. Do not post abusive, obscene, threatening, harassing, defamatory, libelous, offensive or sexually explicit material. Do not intentionally make, false or misleading statements. Do not offer to sell or buy any product or service. Do not post material that infringes copyright. Do not post information that you know to be confidential or sensitive or otherwise in Buffalo Rising each of the law. Keep all comments relevant and 'on topic' to the particular Buffalo Rising Site posting open for comments. Buffalo Rising will not accept responsibility for information posted in the Comments.
If Buffalo Rising receives notice that any posting is not in keeping with these terms and conditions or the intended use of the Comments, Buffalo Rising may remove that posting and/or any other related postings.
Please note that unless a particular Buffalo Rising Site is notified of a posting that is not in keeping with these terms and conditions then we will not remove it, furthermore we do not exercise any form of editorial control or censorship of Comments other than the above stated procedure."
This must be the old policy, no? If so, I suggest you fix the numerous grammatical errors within before reposting it as new. Please consider this constructive criticism from a concerned commenter.
Dear Ms. Buscarino,
In light of this new (favorable) development in policy, I'd like to submit my resume for consideration for the new BRO position of Troll Blocker. I'd even work an extra day a week if I could have the title of Troll Destroyer. I think you'll find my qualifications to be suitable for the position, given my expertise as a Viking warrior.
Thank you.
Dumpster,
I couldn't agree more! It's so annoying to read Buffalo Pundit's smart, well thought out and articulate rebuttals that cite facts and challenge people to think. We *MUST* not allow such dangerous dissenting views to expressed by him. Next thing you know, he will actually take the time away from his young family and run for office in an attempt to make this region better. How dare he!?!?
Buffalo Pundit is the most dangerous thing to hit the streets of Buffalo since Dutch Elm disease!
ECB - Buffalo is a tough town... even tougher the further East, West and South you get from your Elmwood Village base. If any intelligent adult is "intimidated" into silence perhaps they shouldn't surf the internet and might be happier in a less stimulating environment that can be found in the suburbs.
I'm embarrassed to share many BRO articles to my friends around the country not because of anonymous postings but rather because the many errors and shortcomings of the articles themselves. I've yet to understand why a wealthy white woman Elmwood Village woman would find it worthwhile to go to the Tops Supermarkets on Niagara St to write about interactions with "colored" people - it made me feel like I was being watched like an ape at the primate house of the Buffalo Zoo!
And yes... this new "policy" will be used to delete views that don't agree with the typical Elmwood Village Yuppie. Most of the disdane that has been expressed towards BRO has been that it is very ignorant of the City as a whole.
I'll agree that careful moderation is a key element in maintaining a stable, healthy internet community. However, comment policing must consist of rigidly objective criteria, not arbitrary, emotion-triggered post expunging whenever a participant validly refutes the fallacious logic we often see seeping from many of the more recent posts on this site.
Enforcing posts that can be construed as being "off topic" is indeed a slippery slope, considering many such posts are positive in nature and typically wouldn't warrant such drastic action.
One more suggestion, if the criticism is getting too overwhelming, you guys should consider being a lot more careful about what gets posted and the amount of fact-checking and diligence put into such posts. Blatant factual errors, baseless glorification, and gross exaggeration in posts seems to be the norm these days.
Elena, Newell, Authors, Posters et al (no, not me),
hmmmmm. my friends, this can be a slippery slope. one that i am slightly wary of.
it is obvious to any regular reader to this site that, as of late, thing have gotten a little uncomfortable and even out of hand. threads seem to degrade quickly into vulgar (yet often accurate or even funny) observations.
But is a wholesale editing policy the best way to go? at best, its a time consuming, difficult to administrate, and somewhat perception based task of whack-a-mole to monitor every posting.
At worst, editing can become, or be perceived as becoming (sadly, perception is reality), just as abusive as any comments. the freedom to say whatever one feels, is the great liberty of the internet. it keeps the whole system honest. very often it is comments from our resident trolls that help me re-examine an issue. and if going off topic, qualifies for disbarment, i know ill be in for big trouble. like this one time . . . sorry [self edited]
there is a price for such liberty, however: we must weed through the small petty comments, the insults, and the all around childishness (that last one is me) to find the truth. just like real life. lets face it the web is humanity unvarnished after all.
perhaps a somewhat different tack is in order: a call for civility and a little restraint.
i know i have be guilty of forgetting there is a person on the other end of those comments or articles. i know i have been brusque-er (it’s a word) than necessary. remember somebody felt strongly enough to write something for the world to see. if you don’t agree, say why. namecalling or insulting somebody doesn’t prove a point, it just makes the author look one dimensional and childish.
-----
im also going to guess that editing only feed the trolls more – just to see what they can get away with.
Just thought I might throw out there - we have friends from other parts of the country as well as in the suburbs that read BRO daily. I am embarassed at times to know they read certain stories - the stories that had a long list of personal attacks on either the writer or other people posting. Buffalo will never get out of the current "rut" unless the people within it are positive and work toward the common goal of making it better. Positive discussions and healthy debates for good for a community. They reflect in a manner that businesses want to come here, people want to live here and those that are already here want to stay here.
No one wants to be around the name calling, insulting, mean 5-year old bully and that is what some of the comments sound like at times.
There is no need for some of the dirty, racist comments that have been made in the past to be seen by the rest of the country or in the burbs. It perpetuates the negative feelings about Buffalo. I am all for a good joke, or witty rebuttal, but some comments have really crossed the line.
Good call BRO.
I haven't read this long round of comments just because I have a very clear cut opinion on this. These are comments in a public posting section. If Buffalo Rising is going to censor the comments, I fear that they will censor comments that disagree with their views in any way. Now, this is already a pretty pro-gentrification, yuppie-oriented site and publication thus far, and I think dissenting opinion needs to be aired often. Now, I don't particularly like personal attacks, but I think everyone should just ignore them, hereby eliminating a lot of the comment traffic. Simply avoid users you do not like. Very simple.
I'd like to report lulu. She hurt my feelings with her criticism of this thread. :-(
Quite a response from this trolling topic...and just think, without us alleged "flipside" folks, you'd be reading about some ridiculous plans to bring another pizzeria downtown, as if that's going to change your life in ANY sort of way. I speak on behalf of myself, nonono nd a few significant others when I say "you're welcome".
Elena - how about a story on how to file insurance claims as related to this wind storm. Everyone could use a couple bucks...
ECB,
""He rented an apartment on Irving and used to terrorize those neighbors in real life.""
""you want to be king, but wouldn't that conflict with the fact that you are already a raging queen? ""
If i WAS who the angry, illiterate, name calling YESYESYES claims me to be, I might be contacting an attorney right now about the defamatory and libelous statements you post here and make no effort to confirm or delete, under your erratic new editorial policy.
what i WOULDN'T be doing is writing you a 'letter' bemoaning the fact that i couldnt now forward this link to my butt buddies in sausalito.
...to damp you wrote:
""I tried to get you to be one of us"" what is this a cult or a blog?
how about you answer the question i have been asking for weeks.....what is 'all the work' GY has done to Coit ? could we have some specific projects and dollar amounts or does being 'one of us' mean accepting any ungrounded assertions printed here?
Wow. I'm sure many posts have been low class, but this is a strange decision. I think you have just energized your critics who contend this site is far too one-sided, non-journalistic, and otherwise myopic if not self-serving and perhaps collusional with advertisers and supporters.
A post such as the one about the green building being beautiful followed by comments that is for sale, being exposed as trend by a commentor, requires rebuttal not frustration. Many examples like this exist.
I hope you reconsider and simply edit out more of the truly distasteful posts....but warning posters?....that's just against the spirit of a two-way blog.
Change your mission statement.
I look at this site as an alternative news/information/entertainment source. As such, I don't see why it should be OK for people to be racist, use foul language, and spew completely unsubstantiated and vicious rhetoric about whomever they want on this site. If they wouldn't be able to do it on the letters to the editor page of say, Artvoice, I really fail to see why it is censorship to stop them from doing it here. I apply reasonable journalistic standards to all the media I peruse, with caveats. The comments Elena mentions fall far short of those standards. I don't see why the advent of online journalism suddenly makes the unacceptable acceptable.
By the same token, I'd like to see more editorial care taken with the posts, not just with their style and grammar, but also with fact-checking and the inclusion of other points of view and a diverse variety of sources--i.e., not just reworded PR (though for brief announcements of upcoming events, that's fine). I'd also like to see sources, such as the frequently-used Buffalo News, credited.
Why does everyone always try to miss the point of BRO article posts! Comment if you have a comment to add (about the article - may seems obvious, but oft lost in this crowd). Get your own dern website if you feel the need quit your A.D.D. meds and rant uncontrollably like a cranked-up 12 year-old tourette case study.
Oh, FYI - newspapers (the original land of journalists) get 100s of letters (i.e. "posts" for those of you who have never actually felt the cool damp of newsprint) each day. Those fascists print less than a dozen a day.
It might be time to restructure the site to have a real forum, rather than just comments attached to an article. This would make dealing with off-topic, but nonetheless constructive discussions easier, as one could simply start a new thread in the appropriate forum to continue the discussion.
Articles, when posted, could automatically create an associated thread, but would still be addressable separate from the associated thread.
Steel, apologies not needed. I guess some of us have thicker skin than others.
Elena, thank you for your suggestion. I will contact a realtor tomorrow, although I am already familiar with most of my alternatives....and right now, I can't take the risk.
FACT:
I don't know several of the people on this site that support my beliefs. They have taken it upon themselves to agree with my crticisms, including nonono. I also receive praise by email for many of my postings. In a weird sort of way, some of us have developed a following. Call it a coup d'état....
This group that you speak of appears very articulate and successful. Judging from what I have read, they understand business and seem very frustrated that they are being held back by people like yourself.
As you can see, I like Buffalo, that is why I don't move, yet. However, some of us just simply demand more out of life than celebrating the opening of the local beer merchant.
We want real change and strive to make real money. Perhaps you should pay closer attention to some of these posts that you banter on about, you might learn something,
Quite the response for one article, and I thought I was the only one who felt that BRO was going downhill. I support the censorship if it makes the site more suitable for people of all ages and backgrounds. The general disagreements have gotten out of hand with public threats against person and property and private message threats that were much, much, worse. I stopped posting a while ago because it wasn't worth it to me to see my words lost among the sophomoric comments from nonono, gaustad, brokeepsblockingme, and better than detroit. I have seen decent posts from these guys but i find it difficult to respect the good posts among the bad. I compare their work to a good artist who wastes his time vandalizing cars and building, or the teacher who molests his students. The good is overshadowed by the bad. Thanks for bringing civility back to BRO, I hope that it stays this way.
It is a shame that BRO must move in this direction.. I don't blame them I guess it just is a shame that some people can't find the patience or tolerance to keep civil.
I've always said about BuffaloRising...you could announce that Microsoft is moving their worldheadquarters to Buffalo, creating 10,000 jobs of $100K or more...and the same old BuffaloRising people would just complain and go off on their own tangents.
Hey JohnMartin...if you say the BRO staff is unsuccessful, then you must throw yourself into the "miserable" category...cause that's all your posts reveal.
This is a very slippery slope as al alo said. This is a self policed community (Avoid User), and people are respected based upon their contributions. Some people here I may not respect due to their empty remarks towards others. But the fact remains, they can post what they wish, knowing full well the consequences. I can understand editing comments with racial slurs or threats, but language and other things is a path that the poster can chose. Most of the people who read BR are anywhere from being in High School or Retirement. I don't think our virgin ears will be pierced by hearing someone shout $*&% that! From a business standpoint, bad move. It's all about the clicks, and you're making an assumption (I believe someone said this earlier) that you're catering to a larger crowd than you're losing.
I fully support BR, and have defended writers from blatent disrespect. But that's the internet. This is an online community of people who should know what to expect. Put a warning on your registrar if you must that this is a PG-13ish website.
I can see this going bad, let's hope for the best here and not over censor things.
I don't pay close attention to BRO anymore, but not just because of the stupid vulgarity of some of the postings. That was annoying but it never ruffled me, even when I was mocked for having a different point of view or for where I live. I found the coarseness and obscenity of a few less worrisome than the herdthink here, and the belittling of different points of view by the non-vulgar posters.
But I understand the decision. At the same time, I respectfully urge better writing and editing (and proofreading), more discernment about the subjects and tone of articles, and a bit more neutrality about certain projects or issues.
ECB - "You just can't engage in the other bits that incite hatred. That's pretty fair."
I would like to know how anyone has engaged in acts of "hatred." From all observations, what appears to anger some is that people have different opinions - opinions that deviate from those who live privileged lives.
I think its outrageous that STEEL has printed articles that have been downright hateful to the suburbs (i.e. Cheektowaga) but nothing was done to address that. How about excursions to the Niagara St Tops Supermarkets to feel hip to watch "negros" like myself buy toilet paper? I felt like I was being equated to an ape in the primate house of the Buffalo Zoo that was entertainment for some Nardin field trip on a warm day in May.
But someone writes a post a satirical comment and demands immediate attention to protect the fragile sensibilities of a vocal minority? Folks can avoid users that annoy them. Folks can report comments that are over the top - something I myself did recently. I think the real issue here is a desire to squash dissenting opinions.
You are correct that this is your game and you get to choose the rules. However, I think you need to evaluate how irrelevant this webpage is becoming NOTas a result of foolish comments but rather as a lackluster style of writing. If you yearn to have the distinction of being a "respectable" publication, I believe you really need to aspire to much higher standards in the articles written.
Be fair and be consistant. Most importantly, please note, many of your neighbors, especially those outside EV, have views/perspectives that are very different from your own. Respect those differences. It would serve both the City of Buffalo and BRO to avoid the pittfalls of the "tall poppy syndrom"...
Bad idea. I usually ascribe to the notion that if I don't care for something I'm reading I move along, the same as is often said with TV or radio stations...change the channel. Granted, a lot of posts devolve into absurdity but a greater number lead to a fecundity that you simply can't get anywhere else. Too often what is perceived as negative points of view are in actuality constructive criticism, ya some are genuinely negative. So if the desrie is to create a legion of BRO Yes Men & Women, I think you'll find readership down. No offense, but many times the responses are better than the articles.
Very often a great conversation is blunted by dull witted off topic comments by a very few commenters who's only aim is to hijack the thread to call attention to themselves.
This is a good move, in my view, and I think those most affected by it are those who did the most to make it inevitable. As many have pointed out in previous discussions of this, other blogs and forums (such as the blogs hosted by the fishwrapper in My Fair City) have similar decency policies and occasionally have to take the step of banning the recalcitrant - as it's their forum, they have the right. Frankly, I think Elena and Newell aren't getting the credit they deserve for being so tolerant for so long - trying anything and everything short of strict enforcement.
I came face-to-face with the issue last year: after posting a comment that I would never patronize Pano's (and that many of my Buffalo friends feel the same way) I was a flame target of those who told me I was a piece of crap, and to stay out of Buffalo. More recently, I've seen others find themselves consistent targets of attempts to intimidate, and even seen several direct threats of physical harm.
In reality, that's what this is about - can't really see that Newell and Elena had much choice (and they've given plenty of fair warning) - despite any attempt (even by those whose work I respect) to recast this as a 'freedom of dissent' issue. Over the last several years (as described in the George Johnson online article mentioned earlier) BRO has, in fact, become a significant Buffalo institution - I was delighted to see it figure in Mark Goldman's most recent book - and the folks who run it have, and will have, the difficult responsibility of acting accordingly. I think this policy is a sign of positive things to come - and look forward to 2008 being a banner year for BRO, Buffalo, and all our upstate communities.
BRO might consider enhancing their account validation process. My housemates and I have at least a dozen aliases on BRO, some to post legit comments and others to have fun with. We all know that this isn't uncommon on BRO.
It's in the interest of BRO to continue the proliferation of usernames, it gives off the air of more than a dozen readers. The more aliases, the busier this joint looks and the easier it is to sell ads. It's pretty simple.
Yes, they have what is referred to as a "one block" rule. I.e., if the business is about one block outside city limits (Torches, O'Connells are on Kenmore Ave across the street from Buffalo, Ava Cado's is across the street from Buffalo city limits, Suzy Q's is about 1-2 blocks from Buffalo City Limits - and was covered as part of an in-city event at Flying Bison - and Amigo's is at the corner of Elmwood and Kenmore, across the street from Buffalo City limits.) You will not, however, find any glowing reviews of, say, One Eyed Jacks or Kentucky Gregs.
Thank you ECB. I haven't posted in a while because the threads have been annoying, insulting and beyond negative. I relish debate and sharing opinions and hope that this decision to curtail the trolls will enhance the site.
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